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On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
Incredible set of interviews, thanks for translating!
Yes Blizzard is definitely 50% responsible for killing the korean scene. I hate it (as a foreigner I loved watching all kor tournaments cause you know its the best in the world, foreigners had objectively worse mechanics and game sense), but its understandable. Hell ITTF changed the ping pong rules and world rankings just to prevent all chinese finishes. It's necessary in some sense to foster the growth of the sport. And it's evident with the new up and coming foreigners and the fact that these formerly no name foreigners in WoL (yes, serral included) are competing with top koreans.
The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it.
Players outside of the top 5 in tennis taking part time jobs?
In a single tournament, 128 players made a minimum of $100k. 32 made a minimum of $250k. Plus doubles and other comp. In a single tournament - which I might add paid out more earnings than sc2 has in it's entire existence. Literally no player in the top 100 of either men's or women's tour is working a part time job out of necessity.
https://www.usopen.org/en_US/visit/prize_money.html
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 29 2020 14:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2020 01:03 deacon.frost wrote:On August 27 2020 23:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it. I'm pretty sure Floyd Mayweather and whoever the #1 combat sports athlete is in any era makes more money than almost all best team sport players. In the top 3 best payed athletes are 2 football players(yes, Ronaldo and Messi), #1 being Roger Federer. (so much for the Tennis) Then it follows with Neymar(football), LeBron James(basketball), Stephen Curry(basketball), Kevin Durant(basketball),Tiger Woods(golf), Kirk Cousin(american football) and Carson Wentz(amrican football) From the top 10 best payed athletes on the earth 8 are from team games. Source - forbes best payed athletes for 2020. Even if you add the next 10 we're adding 5 team sport athletes. Tyson Fury(fighting), Russel Westbrook(basketball), Lewis Hemilton(F1), Rory McIlroy(golf), Jared Goff(american football), Conor McGregor(fighting), James Harden(basketball), Giannis Antetokounmpo(basketball), Anthony Joshua(box) and Deontay Wilder (box) Soooooo, nope? I'm sorry for butchered names and if I added wrong sport to some person. So, from top 20 we have 8 being 1v1, with heavier focus on team games at the top. And I briefly scanned the next 20 and unless I made an error(which is possible) there are 7 non-team athletes. 5 of them from Tennis  Link to them articlez: https://www.forbes.com/athletes/#1e1a6e2755ae IN 2018 Floyd Mayweather made $285 million. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2018/06/13/full-list-the-worlds-highest-paid-athletes-2018/#18d2c5c77d9fhe is way past his prime.
Sure, but considering top3 makes around 100 m USD each year it's hard to compare with boxers/fighters who make high payments for rare matches.
On August 31 2020 16:52 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2020 10:58 CicadaSC wrote:if we want to see korean amateurs rise up we need to region lock Korea i think. similar to what we did in foreign scene. Foreigners should not be allowed to play in GSL and ESL Circuit. Currently because of covid19 there are not many foreigners competing in GSL besides Special but in a normal season there could be 3+ on any season and i think players like Prince and any other korean semi pros would benefit from this. there is no WCS Challenger like NA/EU has for semi pros to make money so GSL is all theyve got. Solar and many other koreans think this system is unfair since 2018. Please change. https://twitter.com/sc2_solar/status/1073116274144595968?lang=en I don't think region locking Korea would change anything. Foreigners that mostly play in GSL (SpeCial, Scarlett, Astrea, Sortof, Jake, ... ) are Tier 2 foreigners. They really don't make a difference cause they are Ro24 or Ro16 fodder at best and don't even make the cut at worst. What could make a difference would be challenger tournaments with a really flat payout curve and maybe seeds into Ro16 or even the "Code A" giving out some price moneys
It would make a difference. It would remvoe what, 5 or 6 players from the qualification? Players who can qualify? (some of them require a little bit of luck ) Which would result in more Koreans into Code S. The last few seasons we had 2 foreigners in RO24, 1 in RO16. While having Code A-ish tournament would be a better incentive, region locking is the easiest way for the implementation.
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Northern Ireland26775 Posts
On September 08 2020 15:06 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2020 14:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 28 2020 01:03 deacon.frost wrote:On August 27 2020 23:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it. I'm pretty sure Floyd Mayweather and whoever the #1 combat sports athlete is in any era makes more money than almost all best team sport players. In the top 3 best payed athletes are 2 football players(yes, Ronaldo and Messi), #1 being Roger Federer. (so much for the Tennis) Then it follows with Neymar(football), LeBron James(basketball), Stephen Curry(basketball), Kevin Durant(basketball),Tiger Woods(golf), Kirk Cousin(american football) and Carson Wentz(amrican football) From the top 10 best payed athletes on the earth 8 are from team games. Source - forbes best payed athletes for 2020. Even if you add the next 10 we're adding 5 team sport athletes. Tyson Fury(fighting), Russel Westbrook(basketball), Lewis Hemilton(F1), Rory McIlroy(golf), Jared Goff(american football), Conor McGregor(fighting), James Harden(basketball), Giannis Antetokounmpo(basketball), Anthony Joshua(box) and Deontay Wilder (box) Soooooo, nope? I'm sorry for butchered names and if I added wrong sport to some person. So, from top 20 we have 8 being 1v1, with heavier focus on team games at the top. And I briefly scanned the next 20 and unless I made an error(which is possible) there are 7 non-team athletes. 5 of them from Tennis Link to them articlez: https://www.forbes.com/athletes/#1e1a6e2755ae IN 2018 Floyd Mayweather made $285 million. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2018/06/13/full-list-the-worlds-highest-paid-athletes-2018/#18d2c5c77d9fhe is way past his prime. Sure, but considering top3 makes around 100 m USD each year it's hard to compare with boxers/fighters who make high payments for rare matches. Show nested quote +On August 31 2020 16:52 Harris1st wrote:On August 29 2020 10:58 CicadaSC wrote:if we want to see korean amateurs rise up we need to region lock Korea i think. similar to what we did in foreign scene. Foreigners should not be allowed to play in GSL and ESL Circuit. Currently because of covid19 there are not many foreigners competing in GSL besides Special but in a normal season there could be 3+ on any season and i think players like Prince and any other korean semi pros would benefit from this. there is no WCS Challenger like NA/EU has for semi pros to make money so GSL is all theyve got. Solar and many other koreans think this system is unfair since 2018. Please change. https://twitter.com/sc2_solar/status/1073116274144595968?lang=en I don't think region locking Korea would change anything. Foreigners that mostly play in GSL (SpeCial, Scarlett, Astrea, Sortof, Jake, ... ) are Tier 2 foreigners. They really don't make a difference cause they are Ro24 or Ro16 fodder at best and don't even make the cut at worst. What could make a difference would be challenger tournaments with a really flat payout curve and maybe seeds into Ro16 or even the "Code A" giving out some price moneys It would make a difference. It would remvoe what, 5 or 6 players from the qualification? Players who can qualify? (some of them require a little bit of luck ) Which would result in more Koreans into Code S. The last few seasons we had 2 foreigners in RO24, 1 in RO16. While having Code A-ish tournament would be a better incentive, region locking is the easiest way for the implementation.
A pretty minuscule difference if any, for one we’ve dropped from a Ro32 stage to Ro24. That cut of 8 players alone outweighs the amount of foreign players who have basically ever tried to qualify for GSL, maybe outside of the very first one or two.
The foreign house over in Korea has been great for the scene over the years as a base and as somewhere content comes out of. Indeed, despite retiring after failing to make Code S this time, there’s even a video from Chance staying and practicing with those folks, I presume he’s not the only one of these knocking on Code S’s door level players who gets good practice out of the foreign legion.
The kind of softer region locking I would have been happy to see back in the olden days really. Now Korea definitely does need some love in terms of structure and money but I’m not sure what this would really accomplish.
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On September 08 2020 18:21 Wombat_NornIron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2020 15:06 deacon.frost wrote:On August 29 2020 14:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 28 2020 01:03 deacon.frost wrote:On August 27 2020 23:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it. I'm pretty sure Floyd Mayweather and whoever the #1 combat sports athlete is in any era makes more money than almost all best team sport players. In the top 3 best payed athletes are 2 football players(yes, Ronaldo and Messi), #1 being Roger Federer. (so much for the Tennis) Then it follows with Neymar(football), LeBron James(basketball), Stephen Curry(basketball), Kevin Durant(basketball),Tiger Woods(golf), Kirk Cousin(american football) and Carson Wentz(amrican football) From the top 10 best payed athletes on the earth 8 are from team games. Source - forbes best payed athletes for 2020. Even if you add the next 10 we're adding 5 team sport athletes. Tyson Fury(fighting), Russel Westbrook(basketball), Lewis Hemilton(F1), Rory McIlroy(golf), Jared Goff(american football), Conor McGregor(fighting), James Harden(basketball), Giannis Antetokounmpo(basketball), Anthony Joshua(box) and Deontay Wilder (box) Soooooo, nope? I'm sorry for butchered names and if I added wrong sport to some person. So, from top 20 we have 8 being 1v1, with heavier focus on team games at the top. And I briefly scanned the next 20 and unless I made an error(which is possible) there are 7 non-team athletes. 5 of them from Tennis Link to them articlez: https://www.forbes.com/athletes/#1e1a6e2755ae IN 2018 Floyd Mayweather made $285 million. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2018/06/13/full-list-the-worlds-highest-paid-athletes-2018/#18d2c5c77d9fhe is way past his prime. Sure, but considering top3 makes around 100 m USD each year it's hard to compare with boxers/fighters who make high payments for rare matches. On August 31 2020 16:52 Harris1st wrote:On August 29 2020 10:58 CicadaSC wrote:if we want to see korean amateurs rise up we need to region lock Korea i think. similar to what we did in foreign scene. Foreigners should not be allowed to play in GSL and ESL Circuit. Currently because of covid19 there are not many foreigners competing in GSL besides Special but in a normal season there could be 3+ on any season and i think players like Prince and any other korean semi pros would benefit from this. there is no WCS Challenger like NA/EU has for semi pros to make money so GSL is all theyve got. Solar and many other koreans think this system is unfair since 2018. Please change. https://twitter.com/sc2_solar/status/1073116274144595968?lang=en I don't think region locking Korea would change anything. Foreigners that mostly play in GSL (SpeCial, Scarlett, Astrea, Sortof, Jake, ... ) are Tier 2 foreigners. They really don't make a difference cause they are Ro24 or Ro16 fodder at best and don't even make the cut at worst. What could make a difference would be challenger tournaments with a really flat payout curve and maybe seeds into Ro16 or even the "Code A" giving out some price moneys It would make a difference. It would remvoe what, 5 or 6 players from the qualification? Players who can qualify? (some of them require a little bit of luck ) Which would result in more Koreans into Code S. The last few seasons we had 2 foreigners in RO24, 1 in RO16. While having Code A-ish tournament would be a better incentive, region locking is the easiest way for the implementation. A pretty minuscule difference if any, for one we’ve dropped from a Ro32 stage to Ro24.
They call it Ro24 but there's 28 players in Code S. 4 just skip a round.
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For whose who still think there s new blood on SC2 Europe, Here the starting year career for each players in DreamHack : Fall (Winner s round)
Serral : 2016
Elazer : 2014
Mana : 2010
Reynor : 2017-18
Clem : 2017-18
Showtime : 2013
PtitDrogo : 2014
Heromarine : 2013
Then i propose for a little bit more try hard a Very very fast option in order to make the game more competitive / entertainement kappa
LotV Economy = 
User was warned for this post.
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Northern Ireland26775 Posts
On September 08 2020 18:31 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2020 18:21 Wombat_NornIron wrote:On September 08 2020 15:06 deacon.frost wrote:On August 29 2020 14:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 28 2020 01:03 deacon.frost wrote:On August 27 2020 23:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it. I'm pretty sure Floyd Mayweather and whoever the #1 combat sports athlete is in any era makes more money than almost all best team sport players. In the top 3 best payed athletes are 2 football players(yes, Ronaldo and Messi), #1 being Roger Federer. (so much for the Tennis) Then it follows with Neymar(football), LeBron James(basketball), Stephen Curry(basketball), Kevin Durant(basketball),Tiger Woods(golf), Kirk Cousin(american football) and Carson Wentz(amrican football) From the top 10 best payed athletes on the earth 8 are from team games. Source - forbes best payed athletes for 2020. Even if you add the next 10 we're adding 5 team sport athletes. Tyson Fury(fighting), Russel Westbrook(basketball), Lewis Hemilton(F1), Rory McIlroy(golf), Jared Goff(american football), Conor McGregor(fighting), James Harden(basketball), Giannis Antetokounmpo(basketball), Anthony Joshua(box) and Deontay Wilder (box) Soooooo, nope? I'm sorry for butchered names and if I added wrong sport to some person. So, from top 20 we have 8 being 1v1, with heavier focus on team games at the top. And I briefly scanned the next 20 and unless I made an error(which is possible) there are 7 non-team athletes. 5 of them from Tennis Link to them articlez: https://www.forbes.com/athletes/#1e1a6e2755ae IN 2018 Floyd Mayweather made $285 million. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2018/06/13/full-list-the-worlds-highest-paid-athletes-2018/#18d2c5c77d9fhe is way past his prime. Sure, but considering top3 makes around 100 m USD each year it's hard to compare with boxers/fighters who make high payments for rare matches. On August 31 2020 16:52 Harris1st wrote:On August 29 2020 10:58 CicadaSC wrote:if we want to see korean amateurs rise up we need to region lock Korea i think. similar to what we did in foreign scene. Foreigners should not be allowed to play in GSL and ESL Circuit. Currently because of covid19 there are not many foreigners competing in GSL besides Special but in a normal season there could be 3+ on any season and i think players like Prince and any other korean semi pros would benefit from this. there is no WCS Challenger like NA/EU has for semi pros to make money so GSL is all theyve got. Solar and many other koreans think this system is unfair since 2018. Please change. https://twitter.com/sc2_solar/status/1073116274144595968?lang=en I don't think region locking Korea would change anything. Foreigners that mostly play in GSL (SpeCial, Scarlett, Astrea, Sortof, Jake, ... ) are Tier 2 foreigners. They really don't make a difference cause they are Ro24 or Ro16 fodder at best and don't even make the cut at worst. What could make a difference would be challenger tournaments with a really flat payout curve and maybe seeds into Ro16 or even the "Code A" giving out some price moneys It would make a difference. It would remvoe what, 5 or 6 players from the qualification? Players who can qualify? (some of them require a little bit of luck ) Which would result in more Koreans into Code S. The last few seasons we had 2 foreigners in RO24, 1 in RO16. While having Code A-ish tournament would be a better incentive, region locking is the easiest way for the implementation. A pretty minuscule difference if any, for one we’ve dropped from a Ro32 stage to Ro24. They call it Ro24 but there's 28 players in Code S. 4 just skip a round.
My ability to do maths is declining sharply with my advancing age alas.
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On September 08 2020 18:53 Vision_ wrote:............................... Then i propose for a little bit more try hard a Very very fast option in order to make the game more competitive / entertainement kappa LotV Economy = User was warned for this post.
The first half of your post was fine. The second half was not. A twitch meme with a throwing up emoji that bashes on LotV is not an acceptable post.
I haven t twitch and i hardly knew what was a meme....
I check a site of best meme and i laughed 15 minutes along
so thank you
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EPT
