• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:39
CEST 07:39
KST 14:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation12$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 524 users

TY defeats PartinG, advances to Code S finals - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
60 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Aunvilgodess
Profile Joined May 2016
954 Posts
May 28 2020 10:54 GMT
#41
whos the author
radracer
Profile Joined March 2020
United States70 Posts
May 28 2020 11:05 GMT
#42
Unfortunate for Parting he was so shook from the first two games he forgot Warpgate in G3.
old
RKC
Profile Joined June 2012
2848 Posts
May 28 2020 11:33 GMT
#43
On May 28 2020 18:10 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2020 17:58 deacon.frost wrote:
On May 28 2020 16:41 Veluvian wrote:
Unfortunately got to admit that recently in Korea top protosses do not show the level they should. Parting was brilliant against Maru but such micro style is hard to be kept consistently. Not sure how the current meta is fine or not but at least this time... TY, if you can read this - please take that damn Code S trophy, we've been waiting for it at least for 5 years.

But overall, I'm disappointed by the toss power. sOs plays like he doesn't care anymore. Yeah, the hidden nexus in Bunny's back looks cool but this is not serious if you really want to do something significant to the final. Zest was humiliated which is like something you can't imagine for such a monster in the past. Trap is not Trap from the last year and yet he was kind of close to surprise Inno. Stats is fading. Dear was actually the greatest disappointment. It could be Scarlett or Rogue on his place in Ro8. Classic is in the military and I really miss him. Honestly seems like only Rain can switch again to SC2 and do something worth but he have won all that could be won already

Maru lost because for whatever reason he didn't play like Maru. Don't know who advocated for that play, but it was really stupid idea.

Korea doesn't have top Protosses anymore, closest players are Dear, Trap and Zest and we have to rely on them to play well. Which means Dear/Trap find their lost mojo. Zest is just randomly the best in LotV as it seems, sadly.

Stats is fading because his army departure is near.


All three races in Korea nowadays have only a handful of absolute top players, unfortunately. For Terran it's Maru, Innovation, TY, Cure, with Dream and Taeja slowly getting there again. For Protoss it's Zest, Trap and a fading Stats, with Dear and Patience middling and Parting getting back to a high level. For Zerg you only really have Rogue, Dark, and then I'd say Ragnarok, soO and DRG.

The thing is, among those top players, only Terrans and Zergs actually win tournaments. At the very top level, Protoss has been in a pretty sorry state for a while. It's been over a year since a Protoss last won a big tournament (Classic in Super Tournament).

Show nested quote +
On May 28 2020 16:14 RKC wrote:
On May 28 2020 16:02 DarkGamer wrote:
On May 28 2020 15:49 Olli wrote:
On May 28 2020 14:31 doggietres wrote:
On May 28 2020 13:47 RKC wrote:
Parting's blink-stalker timing attack looks pretty strong. Even if the attack doesn't kill Terran, Protoss can macro safely behind to build an advantage for the late game (like G6). Dismantled Maru, and won games off TY. So strong that it probably forced them to pull of cheesy openings to delay or disrupt the timing.

I'm somewhat surprised Terran doesn't have a better counter (aside from cheesy openings). Mix some marauders in? Defensive widow mines instead of tanks (mines can also be used for offensive drops easily)?


The thing is mines are easy to dodge with blink. Tanks come out way too slow for blink. If you put a tech lab instead of a reactor on the rax, you don't get enough marauders to make a difference.

I agree with a previous post. Cheesing shouldn't be a way to counter something too strong. Blink stalker lets you take fast 3rd without really worrying about anything. This game also just shows you how bad protoss players are at micro, but eventually, when the toss players practice, I reckon that skill level will go up


Almost all of this is wrong. Blink is the preferred opening because it can handle the largest variety of Terran openings, but Parting's specific 4gate variant is only powerful in the meta right now because Terrans are being greedy with their tech after expand. They'll follow up with a 1-1-1 setup, do mine or hellion drops, add an ebay and delay stim for all that. Some even go 1-1-1, Ebay, third CC, then additional rax. You can go back to Maru vs Parting and see how it did against a more robust 3rax followup - it did nothing and Parting lost.

But no, even tanks don't come out too slowly to defend it. The only reason TY died to Parting's attack on Eternal Empire is because his positioning and control was poor and he kept bleeding tanks so that he never had enough to cover two bases. He continuously had siege tanks unprotected and units in vulnerable positions - marines in the main and tank visible on the ramp, tank on the edge of the main cliff, then no marines in his bunker in the main. Front door wide open for stalkers to walk in. Compare that to the Nightshade game and you see how hard it can be to get anything done as the blink aggressor if Terran defends properly. Second bunker in the front, tanks protected behind rax in the main. Parting got very little done, had to commit in deep because 4gate blink is a big investment that requires returns, and TY happily deflected him. You're delaying upgrades, tech, and keeping your probe count low to do it, only to end up with a handful of bruised stalkers if it doesn't do significant damage. It's a strong build no doubt, but it isn't too strong by any means.

As for expand builds, blink is very useful but not too powerful by any means. It's the only really useful tool you have to keep Terran contained for a while, slow them down as they move across the map, and get the necessary army up to defend their pushes. SG is frankly not very good anymore after the charge nerf. You just don't have the straight up fighting power to beat the super common marine/tank pushes reliably with a charge followup, and blink after SG dies even harder. Phoenix/colossus is somewhat useful again, but that's quite weak to a lot of other things Terran could be doing (3rax +1 timing, for example) and you can be pretty committed to it before you know what it is they're doing. Also highly map dependent.

Lastly, I'd appreciate if you stopped calling top Protoss poor at micro. To put it mildly, that's absolute bullshit.


i think you are a right with a lot if this. but interestingly parting wasnt behind after the failed 4 gate blink stalker strategy beside ty hold it perfectly. if he would not have a-clicked 1/2 of his army with his following timing attack on the 3. base he would have won, wouldnt he?


Yes, in G6, Parting managed to gain an economic lead despite TY holding off his blink-stalker aggression. Perhaps TY may have gained a slender tech lead due to Parting delaying his robo and forge upgrades? Either way, things just even out - the build looks pretty solid and strong (as Protoss takes the initiative, gains map control, and has the opportunity to punish if not kill off Terran).

So what's Terran optimal counter then? Mech?


Parting wasn't ahead economically. TY finished his third CC while Parting's attack was still going on. TY lost 25 gas worth of units during that whole attack, Parting lost 500, with comparable mineral losses. Worker counts were at 42 (TY) to 53 (Parting) when the attack ended and Parting had only just started his third base while TY was dropping triple MULEs. That's not an economic lead, if anything I'd give an edge to TY there. And tech-wise TY was definitely ahead too, with stim and combat shields finishing, tanks, a starport done for medivac production, 4th and 5th rax already being built while Parting was on stalkers and a forge, only getting a robotics bay. TY also got double ebay down pretty fast after the attack so his 1/1 finished when Parting was only on +1 attack and a single forge.

An economic lead for Parting only came later, after he scouted that TY chose a really passive approach to the midgame with double factory, straight into ghost academy and 4th CC, and Parting responded by expanding aggressively, as you're supposed to against turtle styles. Parting saw that and wanted to commit to an attack to do some damage and slow TY down, I assume because he knew he was behind and didn't want to let TY just macro, but it failed and Parting was always quite far behind from there.

It's a strong build no doubt, and it isn't all-in as you can expand, try to contain and transition, but you're certainly looking for some damage or you'll end up behind.


Parting had a small supply and worker lead at the 6-minute mark during his first blink-stalker aggression. Parting's third nexus came up first at about 7.15. TY's third CC only came up at the 8.45 mark (after the failed medivac drop chased away by colossi). Maybe it's normal for Protoss to expand faster than Terran in the current meta, but definitely Parting was expanding faster than TY throughout the game.
gg no re thx
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-28 12:02:29
May 28 2020 12:00 GMT
#44
On May 28 2020 20:33 RKC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2020 18:10 Olli wrote:
On May 28 2020 17:58 deacon.frost wrote:
On May 28 2020 16:41 Veluvian wrote:
Unfortunately got to admit that recently in Korea top protosses do not show the level they should. Parting was brilliant against Maru but such micro style is hard to be kept consistently. Not sure how the current meta is fine or not but at least this time... TY, if you can read this - please take that damn Code S trophy, we've been waiting for it at least for 5 years.

But overall, I'm disappointed by the toss power. sOs plays like he doesn't care anymore. Yeah, the hidden nexus in Bunny's back looks cool but this is not serious if you really want to do something significant to the final. Zest was humiliated which is like something you can't imagine for such a monster in the past. Trap is not Trap from the last year and yet he was kind of close to surprise Inno. Stats is fading. Dear was actually the greatest disappointment. It could be Scarlett or Rogue on his place in Ro8. Classic is in the military and I really miss him. Honestly seems like only Rain can switch again to SC2 and do something worth but he have won all that could be won already

Maru lost because for whatever reason he didn't play like Maru. Don't know who advocated for that play, but it was really stupid idea.

Korea doesn't have top Protosses anymore, closest players are Dear, Trap and Zest and we have to rely on them to play well. Which means Dear/Trap find their lost mojo. Zest is just randomly the best in LotV as it seems, sadly.

Stats is fading because his army departure is near.


All three races in Korea nowadays have only a handful of absolute top players, unfortunately. For Terran it's Maru, Innovation, TY, Cure, with Dream and Taeja slowly getting there again. For Protoss it's Zest, Trap and a fading Stats, with Dear and Patience middling and Parting getting back to a high level. For Zerg you only really have Rogue, Dark, and then I'd say Ragnarok, soO and DRG.

The thing is, among those top players, only Terrans and Zergs actually win tournaments. At the very top level, Protoss has been in a pretty sorry state for a while. It's been over a year since a Protoss last won a big tournament (Classic in Super Tournament).

On May 28 2020 16:14 RKC wrote:
On May 28 2020 16:02 DarkGamer wrote:
On May 28 2020 15:49 Olli wrote:
On May 28 2020 14:31 doggietres wrote:
On May 28 2020 13:47 RKC wrote:
Parting's blink-stalker timing attack looks pretty strong. Even if the attack doesn't kill Terran, Protoss can macro safely behind to build an advantage for the late game (like G6). Dismantled Maru, and won games off TY. So strong that it probably forced them to pull of cheesy openings to delay or disrupt the timing.

I'm somewhat surprised Terran doesn't have a better counter (aside from cheesy openings). Mix some marauders in? Defensive widow mines instead of tanks (mines can also be used for offensive drops easily)?


The thing is mines are easy to dodge with blink. Tanks come out way too slow for blink. If you put a tech lab instead of a reactor on the rax, you don't get enough marauders to make a difference.

I agree with a previous post. Cheesing shouldn't be a way to counter something too strong. Blink stalker lets you take fast 3rd without really worrying about anything. This game also just shows you how bad protoss players are at micro, but eventually, when the toss players practice, I reckon that skill level will go up


Almost all of this is wrong. Blink is the preferred opening because it can handle the largest variety of Terran openings, but Parting's specific 4gate variant is only powerful in the meta right now because Terrans are being greedy with their tech after expand. They'll follow up with a 1-1-1 setup, do mine or hellion drops, add an ebay and delay stim for all that. Some even go 1-1-1, Ebay, third CC, then additional rax. You can go back to Maru vs Parting and see how it did against a more robust 3rax followup - it did nothing and Parting lost.

But no, even tanks don't come out too slowly to defend it. The only reason TY died to Parting's attack on Eternal Empire is because his positioning and control was poor and he kept bleeding tanks so that he never had enough to cover two bases. He continuously had siege tanks unprotected and units in vulnerable positions - marines in the main and tank visible on the ramp, tank on the edge of the main cliff, then no marines in his bunker in the main. Front door wide open for stalkers to walk in. Compare that to the Nightshade game and you see how hard it can be to get anything done as the blink aggressor if Terran defends properly. Second bunker in the front, tanks protected behind rax in the main. Parting got very little done, had to commit in deep because 4gate blink is a big investment that requires returns, and TY happily deflected him. You're delaying upgrades, tech, and keeping your probe count low to do it, only to end up with a handful of bruised stalkers if it doesn't do significant damage. It's a strong build no doubt, but it isn't too strong by any means.

As for expand builds, blink is very useful but not too powerful by any means. It's the only really useful tool you have to keep Terran contained for a while, slow them down as they move across the map, and get the necessary army up to defend their pushes. SG is frankly not very good anymore after the charge nerf. You just don't have the straight up fighting power to beat the super common marine/tank pushes reliably with a charge followup, and blink after SG dies even harder. Phoenix/colossus is somewhat useful again, but that's quite weak to a lot of other things Terran could be doing (3rax +1 timing, for example) and you can be pretty committed to it before you know what it is they're doing. Also highly map dependent.

Lastly, I'd appreciate if you stopped calling top Protoss poor at micro. To put it mildly, that's absolute bullshit.


i think you are a right with a lot if this. but interestingly parting wasnt behind after the failed 4 gate blink stalker strategy beside ty hold it perfectly. if he would not have a-clicked 1/2 of his army with his following timing attack on the 3. base he would have won, wouldnt he?


Yes, in G6, Parting managed to gain an economic lead despite TY holding off his blink-stalker aggression. Perhaps TY may have gained a slender tech lead due to Parting delaying his robo and forge upgrades? Either way, things just even out - the build looks pretty solid and strong (as Protoss takes the initiative, gains map control, and has the opportunity to punish if not kill off Terran).

So what's Terran optimal counter then? Mech?


Parting wasn't ahead economically. TY finished his third CC while Parting's attack was still going on. TY lost 25 gas worth of units during that whole attack, Parting lost 500, with comparable mineral losses. Worker counts were at 42 (TY) to 53 (Parting) when the attack ended and Parting had only just started his third base while TY was dropping triple MULEs. That's not an economic lead, if anything I'd give an edge to TY there. And tech-wise TY was definitely ahead too, with stim and combat shields finishing, tanks, a starport done for medivac production, 4th and 5th rax already being built while Parting was on stalkers and a forge, only getting a robotics bay. TY also got double ebay down pretty fast after the attack so his 1/1 finished when Parting was only on +1 attack and a single forge.

An economic lead for Parting only came later, after he scouted that TY chose a really passive approach to the midgame with double factory, straight into ghost academy and 4th CC, and Parting responded by expanding aggressively, as you're supposed to against turtle styles. Parting saw that and wanted to commit to an attack to do some damage and slow TY down, I assume because he knew he was behind and didn't want to let TY just macro, but it failed and Parting was always quite far behind from there.

It's a strong build no doubt, and it isn't all-in as you can expand, try to contain and transition, but you're certainly looking for some damage or you'll end up behind.


Parting had a small supply and worker lead at the 6-minute mark during his first blink-stalker aggression. Parting's third nexus came up first at about 7.15. TY's third CC only came up at the 8.45 mark (after the failed medivac drop chased away by colossi). Maybe it's normal for Protoss to expand faster than Terran in the current meta, but definitely Parting was expanding faster than TY throughout the game.


That small worker lead doesn't take MULEs into account. You need to be I'd say around 7-10 workers ahead to be even as Protoss, and more if there's a third CC done and dropping additional MULEs. Note also that TY can produce triple SCVs with the third CC done while Parting needs to wait for his third to finish to produce three probes at once.

TY's third CC only landed around 8:40, but he was already benefitting from it. And yes, it's normal for Protoss to outexpand Terran, especially when - as I said - TY chose an extremely turtley double factory, ghost academy, early 4th CC build. He's got no map presence whatsoever with that style, so of course Parting would expand even more aggressively than Protoss normally would.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
c4rn
Profile Joined May 2020
4 Posts
May 28 2020 16:51 GMT
#45
whn will blizzard finally relaize terran (and also z) being too strong? or turn things around: toss needs buff badly.....
has been nerfed to ground after st1 in 2019 and the balance suffered a lot....

User was banned for this post.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
May 28 2020 16:54 GMT
#46
On May 29 2020 01:51 c4rn wrote:
whn will blizzard finally relaize terran (and also z) being too strong? or turn things around: toss needs buff badly.....
has been nerfed to ground after st1 in 2019 and the balance suffered a lot....

And yet the biggest representation in RO8 has Protoss, then Zerg and then Terran, I wonder how that could be if they're so weak, care to explain?

Statistics in the balance thread.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
mikedupp
Profile Joined May 2020
233 Posts
May 28 2020 17:15 GMT
#47
This is why you shouldn't stream 6-8 hours everyday and the DAY of your RO4 match. I just don't think it's possible to be a full time streamer and pro gamer in the Ro4 and expect a good result.

TY did 1-2hour streams during this time which is completely fine. TY looked and played like someone who used his time responsibly.
TaeTae
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom97 Posts
May 28 2020 17:20 GMT
#48
On May 29 2020 01:51 c4rn wrote:
whn will blizzard finally relaize terran (and also z) being too strong? or turn things around: toss needs buff badly.....
has been nerfed to ground after st1 in 2019 and the balance suffered a lot....

User was banned for this post.


I'm sorry, mods, but how on earth was this user banned for this post? All he is doing is sharing he opinion, which everyone is entitled to. Just because you might not agree with someone doesn't mean you should ban them.
ThunderJunk
Profile Joined December 2015
United States677 Posts
May 28 2020 17:39 GMT
#49
I think Cure's going to take out Innovation, and then TY is gonna take out Cure to win the GSL.

Then we'll have TY as the one guy who pulled off the DPG Hat Trick! (Which is beyond impressive.)
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
May 28 2020 18:04 GMT
#50
On May 29 2020 02:20 TaeTae wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2020 01:51 c4rn wrote:
whn will blizzard finally relaize terran (and also z) being too strong? or turn things around: toss needs buff badly.....
has been nerfed to ground after st1 in 2019 and the balance suffered a lot....

User was banned for this post.


I'm sorry, mods, but how on earth was this user banned for this post? All he is doing is sharing he opinion, which everyone is entitled to. Just because you might not agree with someone doesn't mean you should ban them.


Look at his comment history.
TL+ Member
greenturtle23
Profile Joined August 2019
86 Posts
May 28 2020 19:03 GMT
#51
On May 28 2020 15:52 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2020 14:37 Elentos wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:43 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:23 kajtarp wrote:
I hope TY lifts up the trophy. It's now or never...


He has a pretty good shot, but TvT is the worst matchup for the kind of cheesy shenanigans that TY relied on to get past Dark and Parting. And of course, your opponent can always do it right back. There may or may not be a mental factor in TY's head as well–he has 2 GSL silvers already and number 3 would start putting him in soO territory.

Also, Inno's TvT has looked extremely strong as of late–his recent record is significantly better than TY's–and he's seemingly abandoned his former hesitation about embracing cheesy shenanigans of his own. Refer to double proxy BC.

I suspect TY won't feel a need to play cheesy in TvT given that he said it's his most confident MU. For what it's worth TY and Inno are at 7-7, 2-2 this year with TY winning the more recent matches.


I just realized that I completely forgot to mention Cure.

I like how you didn't even question it though


I honestly don't know who is the favorite between inno and cure.
encoded_evil
Profile Joined May 2020
29 Posts
May 28 2020 19:16 GMT
#52
cure 0 inno 4

gg
starkiller123
Profile Joined January 2016
United States4030 Posts
May 28 2020 19:26 GMT
#53
On May 29 2020 04:03 greenturtle23 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2020 15:52 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 14:37 Elentos wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:43 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:23 kajtarp wrote:
I hope TY lifts up the trophy. It's now or never...


He has a pretty good shot, but TvT is the worst matchup for the kind of cheesy shenanigans that TY relied on to get past Dark and Parting. And of course, your opponent can always do it right back. There may or may not be a mental factor in TY's head as well–he has 2 GSL silvers already and number 3 would start putting him in soO territory.

Also, Inno's TvT has looked extremely strong as of late–his recent record is significantly better than TY's–and he's seemingly abandoned his former hesitation about embracing cheesy shenanigans of his own. Refer to double proxy BC.

I suspect TY won't feel a need to play cheesy in TvT given that he said it's his most confident MU. For what it's worth TY and Inno are at 7-7, 2-2 this year with TY winning the more recent matches.


I just realized that I completely forgot to mention Cure.

I like how you didn't even question it though


I honestly don't know who is the favorite between inno and cure.

INnoVation is the favorite, I want Cure to win this GSL but I just don't think he will get past INno
serralfan18
Profile Joined March 2020
99 Posts
May 28 2020 20:55 GMT
#54
Innovation TY finals go go!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25054 Posts
May 28 2020 21:55 GMT
#55
On May 29 2020 04:26 starkiller123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2020 04:03 greenturtle23 wrote:
On May 28 2020 15:52 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 14:37 Elentos wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:43 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:23 kajtarp wrote:
I hope TY lifts up the trophy. It's now or never...


He has a pretty good shot, but TvT is the worst matchup for the kind of cheesy shenanigans that TY relied on to get past Dark and Parting. And of course, your opponent can always do it right back. There may or may not be a mental factor in TY's head as well–he has 2 GSL silvers already and number 3 would start putting him in soO territory.

Also, Inno's TvT has looked extremely strong as of late–his recent record is significantly better than TY's–and he's seemingly abandoned his former hesitation about embracing cheesy shenanigans of his own. Refer to double proxy BC.

I suspect TY won't feel a need to play cheesy in TvT given that he said it's his most confident MU. For what it's worth TY and Inno are at 7-7, 2-2 this year with TY winning the more recent matches.


I just realized that I completely forgot to mention Cure.

I like how you didn't even question it though


I honestly don't know who is the favorite between inno and cure.

INnoVation is the favorite, I want Cure to win this GSL but I just don't think he will get past INno

Cure looks good, question is he’s had a huge mental block in bringing his online form to the GSL arena.

Sometimes such a block can take time to overcome and then disappears, sometimes one makes a big important breakthrough, crumbles and comes back to break that final few hurdles.

Should hopefully be a great series anyway. I can see Cure beating Inno if he brings his A game but Inno and TY in succession in high pressure offline series for the prestige tournament in the game? That would be what I’m skeptical about
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
rickzou
Profile Joined May 2019
46 Posts
May 28 2020 22:22 GMT
#56
so looking forward to some long overdue TVT finals! Hyped
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-29 01:13:56
May 29 2020 01:05 GMT
#57
On May 29 2020 04:03 greenturtle23 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2020 15:52 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 14:37 Elentos wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:43 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:23 kajtarp wrote:
I hope TY lifts up the trophy. It's now or never...


He has a pretty good shot, but TvT is the worst matchup for the kind of cheesy shenanigans that TY relied on to get past Dark and Parting. And of course, your opponent can always do it right back. There may or may not be a mental factor in TY's head as well–he has 2 GSL silvers already and number 3 would start putting him in soO territory.

Also, Inno's TvT has looked extremely strong as of late–his recent record is significantly better than TY's–and he's seemingly abandoned his former hesitation about embracing cheesy shenanigans of his own. Refer to double proxy BC.

I suspect TY won't feel a need to play cheesy in TvT given that he said it's his most confident MU. For what it's worth TY and Inno are at 7-7, 2-2 this year with TY winning the more recent matches.


I just realized that I completely forgot to mention Cure.

I like how you didn't even question it though


I honestly don't know who is the favorite between inno and cure.


Cure has never beaten Inno in any offline series during his entire career. His online record is not much better. His TvT winrate is lower, both historically and recently. He has a history of stage anxiety, unlike Inno. He has never made it past the GSL Ro4, unlike Inno. He is a strong macro player against a stronger macro player who also doesn't hesitate to cheese.

I literally can't find a single metric that favors Cure. He's not quite a dead man walking, but any and all signs are pointing towards the morgue. He might not follow the signs this time around–remember that TY upset Dark–but there they are.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
greenturtle23
Profile Joined August 2019
86 Posts
May 29 2020 02:21 GMT
#58
On May 29 2020 10:05 pvsnp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2020 04:03 greenturtle23 wrote:
On May 28 2020 15:52 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 14:37 Elentos wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:43 pvsnp wrote:
On May 28 2020 09:23 kajtarp wrote:
I hope TY lifts up the trophy. It's now or never...


He has a pretty good shot, but TvT is the worst matchup for the kind of cheesy shenanigans that TY relied on to get past Dark and Parting. And of course, your opponent can always do it right back. There may or may not be a mental factor in TY's head as well–he has 2 GSL silvers already and number 3 would start putting him in soO territory.

Also, Inno's TvT has looked extremely strong as of late–his recent record is significantly better than TY's–and he's seemingly abandoned his former hesitation about embracing cheesy shenanigans of his own. Refer to double proxy BC.

I suspect TY won't feel a need to play cheesy in TvT given that he said it's his most confident MU. For what it's worth TY and Inno are at 7-7, 2-2 this year with TY winning the more recent matches.


I just realized that I completely forgot to mention Cure.

I like how you didn't even question it though


I honestly don't know who is the favorite between inno and cure.


Cure has never beaten Inno in any offline series during his entire career. His online record is not much better. His TvT winrate is lower, both historically and recently. He has a history of stage anxiety, unlike Inno. He has never made it past the GSL Ro4, unlike Inno. He is a strong macro player against a stronger macro player who also doesn't hesitate to cheese.

I literally can't find a single metric that favors Cure. He's not quite a dead man walking, but any and all signs are pointing towards the morgue. He might not follow the signs this time around–remember that TY upset Dark–but there they are.


Fair points. I was thinking about how strong Cure looked vs Dear. Cure had never beaten Dear offline until that match either, but he absolutely destroyed him. Meanwhile inno squeaked by vs trap. I agree with you he is probably still a big dog to win it, but I hope he can pull through or at least make it close.
ZeeSC2
Profile Joined May 2011
United States134 Posts
May 29 2020 02:46 GMT
#59
Really hoping for a TY v Innovation finals!
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-29 07:33:29
May 29 2020 07:32 GMT
#60
On May 29 2020 02:15 mikedupp wrote:
This is why you shouldn't stream 6-8 hours everyday and the DAY of your RO4 match. I just don't think it's possible to be a full time streamer and pro gamer in the Ro4 and expect a good result.

TY did 1-2hour streams during this time which is completely fine. TY looked and played like someone who used his time responsibly.

This is (sadly) probably true. Dumb mechanical mistakes really hurt PartinG here (forgetting warpgate in g3, messing up hotkeys causing him to lose half his army twice in g6). Had he quit streaming clown builds on NA ladder in the run up to this match, and instead spent time practicing his GSL game, maybe that doesn't happen.

On the other hand, he has nearly 2K subs on twitch last time I checked? For someone streaming regularly he's probably getting at least $6-7K a month there. So choosing to stream over practice for GSL does have some merit to it, it's just sad that in this case he might have actually won this entire season.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 225
StarCraft: Brood War
Noble 174
PianO 143
Bale 19
Dota 2
monkeys_forever685
ODPixel145
NeuroSwarm99
League of Legends
JimRising 832
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1255
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor102
Other Games
summit1g8567
shahzam781
hungrybox401
ViBE183
SortOf18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick41603
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH374
• Hupsaiya 75
• Light_VIP 53
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1065
• Stunt480
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
4h 21m
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
7h 21m
Replay Cast
18h 21m
RSL Revival
1d 4h
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 10h
OSC
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.