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Waxangel
United States33624 Posts
On May 12 2020 03:46 hjpalpha wrote: Well players dislike it pretty much from what i heared, same goes for a 24-DE bracket btw. Ah, the compromises our noble progamers make because they realize they are also working in an entertainment industry  | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 12 2020 03:36 hjpalpha wrote: no advantage for the finals (what imo is stupid, but what ever, the format of 24DE is already a pretty bad idea (its only used 3 times before on the whole sc2 liquipedia for a reason)) Double elim's fine. Just because people haven't used it before doesn't make it bad. I'd love for more tournaments to use Swiss brackets for example (though those can be tricky to schedule). No winner's bracket advantage kinda sucks though. | ||
hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 12 2020 03:48 Waxangel wrote: Ah, the compromises our noble progamers make because they realize they are also working in an entertainment industry Well some of the players only participate in it because of the points ... | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 12 2020 03:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Double elim's fine. Just because people haven't used it before doesn't make it bad. I'd love for more tournaments to use Swiss brackets for example (though those can be tricky to schedule). No winner's bracket advantage kinda sucks though. a normal double elim (with 2^n players, n a natural number) is fine, but a 24-DE (with all players starting in the upper bracket is pretty pad it makes no difference if you lose your first or second match for players that have to play the first round so the first whole day is pretty unimportant and not watch worthy to me already | ||
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Elentos
55579 Posts
On May 12 2020 03:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Double elim's fine. Just because people haven't used it before doesn't make it bad. I'd love for more tournaments to use Swiss brackets for example (though those can be tricky to schedule). No winner's bracket advantage kinda sucks though. They could use it as a unique chance to come up with a tangible winner bracket advantage that isn't just handing out a free map win. | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 12 2020 04:01 Elentos wrote: They could use it as a unique chance to come up with a tangible winner bracket advantage that isn't just handing out a free map win. I asked Julmust if there was any advantage in the grand finals for the player coming from the winners bracket, his answer was just "nope". (on liquipedia discord) So I think its safe to assume that there will not be any advantage at all, which is just stupid and unfair to the player coming from the winner bracket. I usually really like tl and what the admins do most of the time but imo for TSL5 the format and rules are just bad. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 12 2020 04:20 hjpalpha wrote: I asked Julmust if there was any advantage in the grand finals for the player coming from the winners bracket, his answer was just "nope". (on liquipedia discord) So I think its safe to assume that there will not be any advantage at all, which is just stupid and unfair to the player coming from the winner bracket. I usually really like tl and what the admins do most of the time but imo for TSL5 the format and rules are just bad. Can you name any SC2 tournaments - where the finals began with an advantage for one player - that ended in what is remembered as a good finals? It is worth considering that the ultimate goal of any tournament is providing entertainment value, and winners bracket advantage typically has not served that purpose. This is (largely) why they have been phased out from SC2 tournaments. | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 12 2020 04:33 Zealously wrote: Can you name any SC2 tournaments - where the finals began with an advantage for one player - that ended in what is remembered as a good finals? It is worth considering that the ultimate goal of any tournament is providing entertainment value, and winners bracket advantage typically has not served that purpose. This is (largely) why they have been phased out from SC2 tournaments. e.g.  HomeStory Cup/20 (there it even was a whole match advantage not just a game) | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On May 12 2020 04:00 hjpalpha wrote: a normal double elim (with 2^n players, n a natural number) is fine, but a 24-DE (with all players starting in the upper bracket is pretty pad it makes no difference if you lose your first or second match for players that have to play the first round so the first whole day is pretty unimportant and not watch worthy to me already Edit: Oh I get what your saying. I guess its inevitable if you want to have a complete DE where no party starts from the losers bracket (which is better). It does have its downsides I guess, but I'm still super pumped for all the additional games. | ||
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LemonyTang
United Kingdom436 Posts
On May 12 2020 04:38 hjpalpha wrote: e.g. HomeStory Cup/20 (there it even was a whole match advantage not just a game)Have to say I do like this method. It's ridiculous if you win all the way to the final and then lose. You and the other player both lost one series the whole tournament, yet you're eliminated for it and they weren't. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Some kind of advantage for the winner breaket guy would be nice, I gues. | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 12 2020 04:48 Pandain wrote: Edit: Oh I get what your saying. I guess its inevitable if you want to have a complete DE where no party starts from the losers bracket (which is better). It does have its downsides I guess, but I'm still super pumped for all the additional games. a DE bracket with 32 or 16 players is way way way better than a 24 de bracket, because this BS doesn’t happen with these brackets at all | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 12 2020 05:35 dbRic1203 wrote: I realy like a double elimination breaket, as it allows snipped players to redeem themselves in the lower breaket. Some kind of advantage for the winner breaket guy would be nice, I gues. i am not against double elim brackets, but it should be DE brackets with 2^n players (n a natural number) other DE brackets (with all players starting in winners bracket) are just utter BS | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On May 12 2020 05:30 LemonyTang wrote: Have to say I do like this method. It's ridiculous if you win all the way to the final and then lose. You and the other player both lost one series the whole tournament, yet you're eliminated for it and they weren't. It is the fairest possible way to do it, but usually not done this way due to it taking away the viewer experience somewhat, that is why often a 1-0 advantage is applied as a compromise not having any advantage at all is just plain unfair (which kinda fits this event with how the qualifiers went (bad rules and changing them without notifying the players beforehand) tbh) | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 12 2020 05:54 hjpalpha wrote: It is the fairest possible way to do it, but usually not done this way due to it taking away the viewer experience somewhat, that is why often a 1-0 advantage is applied as a compromise not having any advantage at all is just plain unfair (which kinda fits this event with how the qualifiers went (bad rules and changing them without notifying the players beforehand) tbh) 1-0 advantages are really the worst of both worlds. Detracts from the viewer experience, but also not enough of an advantage to be fair to the winner bracket player. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
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ZAWGURN
96 Posts
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TomatoSauceVinegar
5 Posts
will any of the matches be casted off replays? Or all live? | ||
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