On March 31 2020 07:08 Big J wrote: Let people on unranked veto matchups. No more leaving and people can train matchups properly. Solves the problem.
I'm not convinced that people leaving to avoid matchups is the main reason for people leaving games. Additionally allowing vetoing match-ups is a complete nightmare for matchmaking and queue times, so if I was Blizzard I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
On March 31 2020 07:08 Big J wrote: Let people on unranked veto matchups. No more leaving and people can train matchups properly. Solves the problem.
I'm not convinced that people leaving to avoid matchups is the main reason for people leaving games. Additionally allowing vetoing match-ups is a complete nightmare for matchmaking and queue times, so if I was Blizzard I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
After 10 years of laddering SC2 ranked or unranked I can count the times someone has left as a non-mirror against me on one hand. I feel like TvT you have a 10% chance these days the opponent will leave and I have seen worse in ZvZ.
If it is not mainly a question of matchup it would be much more evenly distributed.
About queue times: everyone who wants to play all matchups profits, because they don't get matched, go to loading screen, opponent leaves and then have to match again. Everyone who does not want to play all matchups does so at their own expense. It is a win-win, unless people would greatly change their behaviour with that feature. Which would prove more than anything that it would be a good feature to begin with, if it was heavily welcomed.
On March 31 2020 07:08 Big J wrote: Let people on unranked veto matchups. No more leaving and people can train matchups properly. Solves the problem.
I'm not convinced that people leaving to avoid matchups is the main reason for people leaving games. Additionally allowing vetoing match-ups is a complete nightmare for matchmaking and queue times, so if I was Blizzard I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
After 10 years of laddering SC2 ranked or unranked I can count the times someone has left as a non-mirror against me on one hand. I feel like TvT you have a 10% chance these days the opponent will leave and I have seen worse in ZvZ.
If it is not mainly a question of matchup it would be much more evenly distributed.
About queue times: everyone who wants to play all matchups profits, because they don't get matched, go to loading screen, opponent leaves and then have to match again. Everyone who does not want to play all matchups does so at their own expense. It is a win-win, unless people would greatly change their behaviour with that feature. Which would prove more than anything that it would be a good feature to begin with, if it was heavily welcomed.
Assuming that the feature gets heavily used, people who aren't vetoing match-ups gets screwed over since they just get the same, most heavily vetoed match-ups all the time to compensate for all the people who are vetoing match-ups. And that just drives more people to veto match-ups at which points queue times just keep on increasing. In the worst case scenario queue times go infinite (for example due to all Protosses in a certain MMR range at a certain time looking for Terrans, all Terrans looking for Zergs, and all Zergs looking for Protosses). In the best case scenario queue times still increase significantly even for the players who don't veto any match-ups since the pool of possible opponents is much smaller. And given that ladder isn't one large pool of potential opponents, but rather many small semi-overlapping pools of opponents (since they're bound by MMR and by players who are active at a given time of day) something pretty close to the worst case is bound to happen somewhere on the ladder.
In my experience, unranked players are smurfs far more often than ranked players are (whether intentionally or unintentionally - e.g. leaving matchups they dislike). I'd like to see it abolished or moved into a separate matchmaking queue.
On March 31 2020 08:48 Justinian wrote: In my experience, unranked players are smurfs far more often than ranked players are (whether intentionally or unintentionally - e.g. leaving matchups they dislike). I'd like to see it abolished or moved into a separate matchmaking queue.
you think that's your experience because your mentality is to seek an excuse for a loss, and when you see someone is unranked you decide "i lost because their MMR was false" instead of "i lost because i played worse." again, your mentality is the problem. easy fix!
On March 30 2020 03:10 Riner1212 wrote: i dont like this concept of losing mmr to unranked players cuz they have nothing to lose...
They have unranked MMR to lose. It's not like it stays static.
I dont think that really play that big of factor when someone is laddering ranked cuz they clearly have nothing to lose, so i would have to disagree with you on this one.
Your Unranked MMR factors in to your matchmaking pairings.. so you'd still be getting about 50% win/loss if you weren't tanking your MMR with immediately leaving games... In fact, if you count those games, you probably are still at around 50%.
This is a slight sidetrack from the OP, but is unranked even necessary these days? With the game being free to play, just make an alt account to practice new strategies.
On March 31 2020 07:08 Big J wrote: Let people on unranked veto matchups. No more leaving and people can train matchups properly. Solves the problem.
I'm not convinced that people leaving to avoid matchups is the main reason for people leaving games.
It is 100% the reason I leave games, and I'm sure is for the majority of others. Like a lot of others here have mentioned, I play unranked and leave all PvPs. I play mostly Protoss and if I had to play out PvPs I'd probably quit SC2 or switch races rather than keep playing. PvP's the worst matchup in the game. It's not fun at all and hasn't been for a long time. Even in the recent GSL Super Tournament all the PvPs were horrid. From the pro level down, PvP has regressed back into either cheese, proxies, or all-ins off one or two bases and it's become a game of rock paper scissors that is not fun and seems like it is mostly based on luck.
If they enabled not matching mirrors I would never have to leave a game ever. Heck, I play ZvZ when I play Zerg. I find ZvZ fun because other than few early rushes, there's a lot of stability and it can become a fun matchup with a lot of close games. That's never the case with PvP. Most PvPs are "they did some bullshit and it worked because you either guessed wrong or missed scouting one tiny spot on your half of the map" or "you did some bullshit and it worked because they guessed wrong or missed scouting some tiny thing". It's like if the 2018 PvT proxy cyclone meta was an entire matchup.
On March 31 2020 13:37 vik7 wrote: This is a slight sidetrack from the OP, but is unranked even necessary these days? With the game being free to play, just make an alt account to practice new strategies.
Ladder anxiety is still an issue in SC2. You want as many players to play as possible.
On March 31 2020 08:48 Justinian wrote: In my experience, unranked players are smurfs far more often than ranked players are (whether intentionally or unintentionally - e.g. leaving matchups they dislike). I'd like to see it abolished or moved into a separate matchmaking queue.
you think that's your experience because your mentality is to seek an excuse for a loss, and when you see someone is unranked you decide "i lost because their MMR was false" instead of "i lost because i played worse." again, your mentality is the problem. easy fix!
No, when I say someone is a smurf, I mean I check their account and they leave games. And it's not confirmation bias because I do it for both ranked and unranked.
One reason they don't separate ranked and unranked is que times. If a mode has to long a que time people wont use it. Theirs probably alot more people playing ranked then unranked at any given time so if it was not structured this way que time would be horrendous.
On March 31 2020 07:08 Big J wrote: Let people on unranked veto matchups. No more leaving and people can train matchups properly. Solves the problem.
I'm not convinced that people leaving to avoid matchups is the main reason for people leaving games. Additionally allowing vetoing match-ups is a complete nightmare for matchmaking and queue times, so if I was Blizzard I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
I think it would also lead to some match ups seeing hardly any play time. it would be especially bad in the current balance where Z>P>T>Z so everyone would do a targeted mu ban and maybe a mirror ban too leaving almost no available opponents. This feature just cant work in a game like this. Don't get me wrong, Id be happy if I never had to play another TVP ever again, I realy dislike that mu and only stick with Terran because TvZ and TvT are realy fun and rewarding. but... It just cant work a ban system like that wont work. If their is a perceived imbalance a race could just get locked out for most of the ladder and where does that leave us? Also if it provides players a competitive advantage when ranking up they will do it almost 100% of the time, and so you penalize any one who does not. It would just be dumb.
On March 31 2020 07:08 Big J wrote: Let people on unranked veto matchups. No more leaving and people can train matchups properly. Solves the problem.
I'm not convinced that people leaving to avoid matchups is the main reason for people leaving games. Additionally allowing vetoing match-ups is a complete nightmare for matchmaking and queue times, so if I was Blizzard I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
I think it would also lead to some match ups seeing hardly any play time. it would be especially bad in the current balance where Z>P>T>Z so everyone would do a targeted mu ban and maybe a mirror ban too leaving almost no available opponents. This feature just cant work in a game like this. Don't get me wrong, Id be happy if I never had to play another TVP ever again, I realy dislike that mu and only stick with Terran because TvZ and TvT are realy fun and rewarding. but... It just cant work a ban system like that wont work. If their is a perceived imbalance a race could just get locked out for most of the ladder and where does that leave us? Also if it provides players a competitive advantage when ranking up they will do it almost 100% of the time, and so you penalize any one who does not. It would just be dumb.
FIrst of all it is planned for unranked so no competitive advantage as you can do this now with leaving which gives you even bigger competitive advantage. I leave every MU I don't feel like playing. I waste my time and my opponents time, I inflate their MMR and lower mine. NOw it's much better This approach made the OP create this thread out of sheer frustration.
And 2nd - you expect a massive usage of this, how many peopel are using the unranked? (I don't know but I dare to say it's not thje majority of player based on a very meaningless pool of my games ) FFS how many players of SC2 do you think are on TL.net?
On March 31 2020 07:08 Big J wrote: Let people on unranked veto matchups. No more leaving and people can train matchups properly. Solves the problem.
I'm not convinced that people leaving to avoid matchups is the main reason for people leaving games.
It is 100% the reason I leave games, and I'm sure is for the majority of others. Like a lot of others here have mentioned, I play unranked and leave all PvPs. I play mostly Protoss and if I had to play out PvPs I'd probably quit SC2 or switch races rather than keep playing. PvP's the worst matchup in the game. It's not fun at all and hasn't been for a long time. Even in the recent GSL Super Tournament all the PvPs were horrid. From the pro level down, PvP has regressed back into either cheese, proxies, or all-ins off one or two bases and it's become a game of rock paper scissors that is not fun and seems like it is mostly based on luck.
If they enabled not matching mirrors I would never have to leave a game ever. Heck, I play ZvZ when I play Zerg. I find ZvZ fun because other than few early rushes, there's a lot of stability and it can become a fun matchup with a lot of close games. That's never the case with PvP. Most PvPs are "they did some bullshit and it worked because you either guessed wrong or missed scouting one tiny spot on your half of the map" or "you did some bullshit and it worked because they guessed wrong or missed scouting some tiny thing". It's like if the 2018 PvT proxy cyclone meta was an entire matchup.
You should watch Harstem's video on macro in pvp. I learnt a lot and have enjoyed the matchup ever since.
On March 31 2020 13:37 vik7 wrote: This is a slight sidetrack from the OP, but is unranked even necessary these days? With the game being free to play, just make an alt account to practice new strategies.
Well kind of...
If you create a new account you basically have to wait 10 days before you can get started with ranked again.
IMO Unranked is kind of controversial Becasue: If I get I tilted, I just play som unranked instead and get the same practice with the bonus of "Nothing to lose(!)".
I can take gambles and maybe try out some risky Allin or so.If it doesn´t work for me, well nothing happend "Just que again"
If my opponent takes the same risk and fails, He would be looking at a -30 MMR or something and in worst case a league demotion. Trust me that sucks in the lower leagues, no one even wants to be there lol.
Ranked or unranked its all just an illusion and numbers and it does not really matter. A loss is more valuable than a win when it comes to improvement try to think of it that way :D
On March 30 2020 03:10 Riner1212 wrote: i dont like this concept of losing mmr to unranked players cuz they have nothing to lose...
They have unranked MMR to lose. It's not like it stays static.
I dont think that really play that big of factor when someone is laddering ranked cuz they clearly have nothing to lose, so i would have to disagree with you on this one.
If you don't want to lose mmr, win your games. Are you upset with players at around your level beating you and therefore lowering your score? What is wrong with that? The MMR is supposed to reflect your skill and therefore it lowers every time you lose, regardless to whom.
EPT
This approach made the OP create this thread out of sheer frustration.
(I don't know but I dare to say it's not thje majority of player based on a very meaningless pool of my games 
