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Keep the discussion in this thread related to IEM Katowice/SC2. General discussion regarding the corona virus outbreak belongs in the General Topic forums. |
Finland960 Posts
No On-Site Attendance for IEM Katowice
At 19:45 CET we were informed by the Silesian Voivodeship that our mass event license for IEM Katowice was revoked. Until that moment we had a legally binding decision allowing us to organize the event, which was reconfirmed multiple times over the last few days. The last time the decision was confirmed was several hours ago. The Governor of Silesian (Silesian Voivode) Jarosław Wieczorek issued a decision to remove their approval regarding ESL hosting a mass event in Katowice, Poland. Due to this development, Intel Extreme Masters Katowice 2020 will not have any audience on-site. This means both Spodek-Arena audience as well as IEM Expo.
So the tournaments still be broadcast, but with no live audience. It's possible that scheduling might see some changes, but we'll know more tomorrow.
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Very sad stuff, but also understandable tbh.
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Horrible horrible situation, but completely out of their control.
Feelsbadman
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Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
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It's about the death rate.
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
I hope you at least realize it spreads a lot easier and quicker and if you let it spread the hospitals will be overcrowded fast which will make it worse than your seasonal flu very quickly.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
Yeah, it "just" kill old people, let them die, right?
Currently we don't know if it stops with warm waether as flu, it could stay here forever. And we can guess it will stay because Iran.
But hey, why care, right?
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Russian Federation66 Posts
I am heartbroken, I dreamed of attending a big SC2 event since 2013. Should have been my 1st event ever, got a plane tomorrow in the morning and now this  FU coronavirus Seems that I have to stay home and watch it online as usual
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Bisutopia19307 Posts
Do attendance tickets cost money? If so, I hope that some people don't ask for refunds and treat it as a donations. In return, I hope IEM can provide some sort of virtual gift to would-be attendees.
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Russian Federation66 Posts
On February 28 2020 06:54 BisuDagger wrote:
Do attendance tickets cost money? If so, I hope that some people don't ask for refunds and treat it as a donations. In return, I hope IEM can provide some sort of virtual gift to would-be attendees.
There are both - you can either buy a ticket (which I did) to secure a seat before a stage or to go there without a ticket and get a free seat if available
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
You are clueless. It's mortality rate is a least an order of magnitude higher.
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
I'm sure the dozens of scientist, public health specialist and chief of states making those decision didn't think of that, they should just chill.
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Good call. Unfortunate but wise.
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
It'll die out when there's evidence that people shouldn't be worried. Here's a good idea - you should go actively try to get the corona virus, quarantine yourself for a few weeks (without getting anyone else exposed to you in the process), record the entire thing, and then show the world how it was no big deal. Put your money where your mouth is.
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Public health takes priority over video games, that's just the way it works.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 28 2020 07:06 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. I'm sure the dozens of scientist, public health specialist and chief of states making those decision didn't think of that, they should just chill.
They are cautious because there's a lot of uknown while we know shit ton about the flu. So they are overreacting and people are hysterical(at least in Cze, which is in huge contradiction of what our safety precautions look like). But then again, it's a big unknown, let's be safer than sorry.
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
i don't understand how people make this argument without realizing that a new seasonal flu which we have no immunity or vaccine for is a serious problem and a serious drain on public resources, just like the seasonal flu itself is in fact already a serious problem and serious drain on public resources. either one on its own is bad, how do you not get that both combined are much worse?
i can only assume you're someone who spends too much time watching zombie shows and horror movies and thinks an outbreak of disease is only serious if millions are dead and bloody in the streets. i guess all the epidemiologists with medical expertise on this subject who say it's serious are crazy idiots?
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Was expecting something like this to happen. That's why i was rather surprised that there was no announcement prior to the 1st day. It's unfortunate but it is for the best and we just have to show ESL and the players our support as much as we can online (watching the livestreams and tweets with the right hashtags and such).
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
The commentary of someone who has 0 insight in epidemics...
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Sad stuff, but reasonable. I'm by no means fan of the panic that is currently building up in european countries, but it's fine to be careful. We don't have to gamble here.
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On February 28 2020 07:00 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. You are clueless. It's mortality rate is a least an order of magnitude higher.
A bit of comparison: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
Many things go into how dangerous a virus is: how many are getting sick, how contageous it is and mortality rate. The deathrate of Corona is not certain yet, and it varies heavily for different age groups.
If we look back at previous red-alert outbreakes, the death tolls never came close to be justified by the hysteria:
SARS: 773
EBOLA: 11310
At worst, I think this could reach the death toll that of a seasonal flu, but this is essentially a fear of the unknown. How much of our lives it is worth cancelling for this should absolutely be debated. Fear itself is a health risk.
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My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that there have been no officially recognised cases of coronavirus in Poland. If so, this seems like an overreaction by the authorities, as well as being unfair to do it at such a late stage when everyone has already travelled.
It's not a case of 'safety first', because we all do things that we wouldn't do if our only priority was safety, e.g. driving or crossing the street. Governments allow public events, always which have a risk of causing injury or fatalities to people.
The estimated cost of this virus has already reached over $1,000,000,000,000, for a death toll of 2,817. That is fewer people than die in road traffic accidents around the world each day.
There may be an increasing number of these viruses in the future. If we cease all economic activity every time it happens, it would have a disastrous impact on the world economy and a lot of people's livelihoods.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 28 2020 07:51 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 07:00 maybenexttime wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. You are clueless. It's mortality rate is a least an order of magnitude higher. A bit of comparison: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.htmlMany things go into how dangerous a virus is: how many are getting sick, how contageous it is and mortality rate. The deathrate of Corona is not certain yet, and it varies heavily for different age groups. If we look back at previous red-alert outbreakes, the death tolls never came close to be justified by the hysteria: SARS: 773 EBOLA: 11310 At worst, I think this could reach the death toll that of a seasonal flu, but this is essentially a fear of the unknown. How much of our lives it is worth cancelling for this should absolutely be debated. Fear itself is a health risk.
Yeah, that's why WHO is alerting, every nation is on alert and China is doing drastic measures. They should have asked you instead 
OK, let's be fair:
1) We don't know how covid19 affects unborn child's brain. One of the risks you don't want to underestimate (some epidemics are rather nasty in this way, even flu can be dangerous)
2) Death rate of flu is 0,05 %, death rate of corona is roughly 2 - 3 % so it's not "just a flu"
3) Flu is seasonal. Corona appears to be not. This is (IMO) the prime reason why they want to stop it so it doesn't stay with us forever.
Are there bigger killers? For sure. That's why we don't want a new one.
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I'm more worry about GSL since the situation in South Korea becomes worse and worse.
Regarding the new coronavirus, its chance that requires hospitalization, chance to become serious, and death rate is much higher than flu (though lower than SARS and MERS). It may overwhelm health system if left unchecked.
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After talking with blizzard directly, it seems that this is unfortunately irreversable. We will have to take the hit on this event.
I will look into this further with the correct people to see if we can undo this situation.
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On February 28 2020 07:51 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 07:00 maybenexttime wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. You are clueless. It's mortality rate is a least an order of magnitude higher. A bit of comparison: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.htmlMany things go into how dangerous a virus is: how many are getting sick, how contageous it is and mortality rate. The deathrate of Corona is not certain yet, and it varies heavily for different age groups. If we look back at previous red-alert outbreakes, the death tolls never came close to be justified by the hysteria: SARS: 773 EBOLA: 11310 At worst, I think this could reach the death toll that of a seasonal flu, but this is essentially a fear of the unknown. How much of our lives it is worth cancelling for this should absolutely be debated. Fear itself is a health risk.
you're cherry picking data you don't understand from a single article because cluelessly parroting skeptical takes makes you feel enlightened
no awareness on your part that the "red alert" in itself and the "hysterical" measures taken to suppress the other outbreaks you mention had a mitigating effect on their impact. your analysis is basically "i remember vaguely similar things happening on two occasions and the world didn't end, so there's no problem." glad you're not a scientist (at least i hope to god)
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On February 28 2020 08:48 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 07:51 Slydie wrote:On February 28 2020 07:00 maybenexttime wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. You are clueless. It's mortality rate is a least an order of magnitude higher. A bit of comparison: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.htmlMany things go into how dangerous a virus is: how many are getting sick, how contageous it is and mortality rate. The deathrate of Corona is not certain yet, and it varies heavily for different age groups. If we look back at previous red-alert outbreakes, the death tolls never came close to be justified by the hysteria: SARS: 773 EBOLA: 11310 At worst, I think this could reach the death toll that of a seasonal flu, but this is essentially a fear of the unknown. How much of our lives it is worth cancelling for this should absolutely be debated. Fear itself is a health risk. Yeah, that's why WHO is alerting, every nation is on alert and China is doing drastic measures. They should have asked you instead OK, let's be fair: 1) We don't know how covid19 affects unborn child's brain. One of the risks you don't want to underestimate (some epidemics are rather nasty in this way, even flu can be dangerous) 2) Death rate of flu is 0,05 %, death rate of corona is roughly 2 - 3 % so it's not "just a flu" 3) Flu is seasonal. Corona appears to be not. This is (IMO) the prime reason why they want to stop it so it doesn't stay with us forever. Are there bigger killers? For sure. That's why we don't want a new one.
Is the WHO urging countries to cancel public events, close schools and ban travel? Hell no! As mentioned above, the virus has not even arrived to Poland yet.
The 2-3% death rate is FAR from certain, and even if it is at the maximum, it has the highest risk to people who are already hostpitalized from another illnesses, just like any other flu.
Smoking kills over 8 million people each year, and over 1 million of those were not smoking themselves. That is your real killer. Banning smoking in the whole event area would be a much more justifiable safety precaution.
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On February 28 2020 07:57 Justinian wrote:
My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that there have been no officially recognised cases of coronavirus in Poland. If so, this seems like an overreaction by the authorities, as well as being unfair to do it at such a late stage when everyone has already travelled.
It's not a case of 'safety first', because we all do things that we wouldn't do if our only priority was safety, e.g. driving or crossing the street. Governments allow public events, always which have a risk of causing injury or fatalities to people.
The estimated cost of this virus has already reached over $1,000,000,000,000, for a death toll of 2,817. That is fewer people than die in road traffic accidents around the world each day.
There may be an increasing number of these viruses in the future. If we cease all economic activity every time it happens, it would have a disastrous impact on the world economy and a lot of people's livelihoods.
The other way to look at it is that ~3000 people have died despite all the money spent/lost. And there's no telling how many times more people would have died if that money hadn't been spent. An enormous pandemic would also have a disastrous impact on the world economy.
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On February 28 2020 08:58 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 08:48 deacon.frost wrote:On February 28 2020 07:51 Slydie wrote:On February 28 2020 07:00 maybenexttime wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. You are clueless. It's mortality rate is a least an order of magnitude higher. A bit of comparison: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.htmlMany things go into how dangerous a virus is: how many are getting sick, how contageous it is and mortality rate. The deathrate of Corona is not certain yet, and it varies heavily for different age groups. If we look back at previous red-alert outbreakes, the death tolls never came close to be justified by the hysteria: SARS: 773 EBOLA: 11310 At worst, I think this could reach the death toll that of a seasonal flu, but this is essentially a fear of the unknown. How much of our lives it is worth cancelling for this should absolutely be debated. Fear itself is a health risk. Yeah, that's why WHO is alerting, every nation is on alert and China is doing drastic measures. They should have asked you instead OK, let's be fair: 1) We don't know how covid19 affects unborn child's brain. One of the risks you don't want to underestimate (some epidemics are rather nasty in this way, even flu can be dangerous) 2) Death rate of flu is 0,05 %, death rate of corona is roughly 2 - 3 % so it's not "just a flu" 3) Flu is seasonal. Corona appears to be not. This is (IMO) the prime reason why they want to stop it so it doesn't stay with us forever. Are there bigger killers? For sure. That's why we don't want a new one. Is the WHO urging countries to cancel public events, close schools and ban travel? Hell no! As mentioned above, the virus has not even arrived to Poland yet. The 2-3% death rate is FAR from certain, and even if it is at the maximum, it has the highest risk to people who are already hostpitalized from another illnesses, just like any other flu. Smoking kills over 8 million people each year, and over 1 million of those were not smoking themselves. That is your real killer. Banning smoking in the whole event area would be a much more justifiable safety precaution. many people support bans and restrictions on public smoking and tobacco sales, which have been increasingly legislated for decades. your point makes no sense. cigarettes are cigarettes and epidemiology is epidemiology, two totally different issues with different solutions. you're living in a nonsensical fantasy land where somehow the resources used for studying and combating disease detract from the ability to pass smoking legislation
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 28 2020 07:23 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 07:06 Nakajin wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. I'm sure the dozens of scientist, public health specialist and chief of states making those decision didn't think of that, they should just chill. They are cautious because there's a lot of uknown while we know shit ton about the flu. So they are overreacting and people are hysterical(at least in Cze, which is in huge contradiction of what our safety precautions look like). But then again, it's a big unknown, let's be safer than sorry.
(I was kidding)
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The Coronavirus may not have a very high fatality,IMO the most serious thing is that its infectivity may crush the local medical system.China has a large population and a large area,and a large number of medical workers,so we can concentrate on supporting Hubei.But most countries are just as big as a province in China,I think they are more vulnerable to the epidemic.
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imagine the champion holding the trophy toward rikimaru audiences ;o
would be both bizarre and sad as fuck
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On February 28 2020 07:51 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 07:00 maybenexttime wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. You are clueless. It's mortality rate is a least an order of magnitude higher. A bit of comparison: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.htmlMany things go into how dangerous a virus is: how many are getting sick, how contageous it is and mortality rate. The deathrate of Corona is not certain yet, and it varies heavily for different age groups. If we look back at previous red-alert outbreakes, the death tolls never came close to be justified by the hysteria: SARS: 773 EBOLA: 11310 At worst, I think this could reach the death toll that of a seasonal flu, but this is essentially a fear of the unknown. How much of our lives it is worth cancelling for this should absolutely be debated. Fear itself is a health risk.
The tolerance of fear you're referring to is based on incentives - what are the decision makers (in this case the Polish government) willing to put up with. They've compared scenarios and have made their decision. Ultimately, you could be right but that's not the point...and oversimplifying is dangerous in it's own right.
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It's not surprising that this had to happen. I can understand why Poland would be worried about this. While, as many have already stated, there are currently no confirmed cases in Poland, there are 50 other countries that do have confirmed cases.
To give a little perspective, the first confirmed case in Canada came from a traveler returning from China. Makes sense, that's where the virus originated. The latest confirmed case came from a traveler returning from Iran. So, logically, the virus came from a person returning to Iran from China, and then a different person returning to Canada from Iran.
How many links are there between China and travelers to Poland? Probably a lot. An asymptomatic infected traveler from any one of the 50 countries with confirmed cases could spread this virus in Poland.
When the World Health Organization puts us on alert for a global pandemic, I would think that safe before sorry is a reasonable response.
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Glad the event is still happening, gotta be thankful for that. My father who is 72 has a respiratory disease and I am taking this very seriously. He is one of the people that people are saying doesn't matter because it only hurts the old and sick.
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It's unfortunate but completely understandable, with it being the correct move.
This is for the well being of everyone and nice to see certain entities acting with responsibility and care.
Stay safe people, and most of all be vigilant.
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Damn I was really looking forward to getting back into StarCraft with this hype event. First overwatch league in China and Korea and now this. Sad but understandablr
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This extreme craze is extremely unwarranted. There is no such thing as a super virus or super bug. A NEW virus will be dangerous for a while, in dense populations, until almost everybody develops natural immunity to it. In the past, there were plagues because people were living in horrible sanitary conditions, while having weak immune system due to malnutrition. There's no reason for modern people in first world countries to think a new plague is likely coming.
When you cross the street, no matter how careful you are, there is a risk of someone driving under the influence (of perhaps stupidity) hitting you. Does that mean you should never cross the street, or ride your bicycle? Give me a break.
I'm predicting it right now, this coronavirus constant fearmongering is gonna fizz out in less than two years when people realize, "Oh, it's just another virus. Oh, there's this thing called an immune system. Turns out, it runs pretty reliably if you change its oil regularly (with diet, exercise, stress management, etc.)."
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I'm just confused because haven't they already been playing at this venue? Where have all these offline games been taking place so far? I thought they were already there in Katowice.
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Sad, but probably for the best.
To those that don't think that it is serious, or think that the last 2 major new virus weren't either...you are simply clueless.
The reason SARS and ebola were contained is because of things like we are doing now. If western countries did not spend 100s of millions to billions of dollars doing research, testing, actually going to the heart of the outbreak, putting themselves at risk to stop a true mass epidemic, then they would have been just that. Pull your heads out of your asses, and get a clue.
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On February 28 2020 12:38 kramvti wrote:
Sad, but probably for the best.
To those that don't think that it is serious, or think that the last 2 major new virus weren't either...you are simply clueless.
The reason SARS and ebola were contained is because of things like we are doing now. If western countries did not spend 100s of millions to billions of dollars doing research, testing, actually going to the heart of the outbreak, putting themselves at risk to stop a true mass epidemic, then they would have been just that. Pull your heads out of your asses, and get a clue.
Another clueless person who consumes too much media, thinking they're well-informed. Just because governments and institutions pour endless amounts of your tax dollars into a solving a problem doesn't mean that when the problem subsided that it was due to those institutions. That's assumption based on fallacious reasoning.
There's a reason why ebola was only a serious problem in specific areas of Africa. It turns out, sanitation there is abysmal, and malnutrition runs rampant in third world countries. You're losing sleep over these things, because your education system and news outlets have failed you.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On February 28 2020 12:36 NinjaNight wrote:
I'm just confused because haven't they already been playing at this venue? Where have all these offline games been taking place so far? I thought they were already there in Katowice.
You should also be confused that they would do this even as people are already congregating in hundreds of other different places: schools, theaters, public transportation, sports events, etc. Supermarkets and shopping malls are full of people touching things that get handled by hundreds of different people within a week. Are we supposed to close off everything because hysterical people can't get a handle of their irrational fears?
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On February 28 2020 12:54 tigon_ridge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 12:38 kramvti wrote:
Sad, but probably for the best.
To those that don't think that it is serious, or think that the last 2 major new virus weren't either...you are simply clueless.
The reason SARS and ebola were contained is because of things like we are doing now. If western countries did not spend 100s of millions to billions of dollars doing research, testing, actually going to the heart of the outbreak, putting themselves at risk to stop a true mass epidemic, then they would have been just that. Pull your heads out of your asses, and get a clue. Another clueless person who consumes too much media, thinking they're well-informed. Just because governments and institutions pour endless amounts of your tax dollars into a solving a problem doesn't mean that when the problem subsided that it was due to those institutions. That's assumption based on fallacious reasoning. There's a reason why ebola was only a serious problem in specific areas of Africa. It turns out, sanitation there is abysmal, and malnutrition runs rampant in third world countries. You're losing sleep over these things, because your education system and news outlets have failed you.
cite a medical professional supporting your position
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On February 28 2020 13:28 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 12:54 tigon_ridge wrote:On February 28 2020 12:38 kramvti wrote:
Sad, but probably for the best.
To those that don't think that it is serious, or think that the last 2 major new virus weren't either...you are simply clueless.
The reason SARS and ebola were contained is because of things like we are doing now. If western countries did not spend 100s of millions to billions of dollars doing research, testing, actually going to the heart of the outbreak, putting themselves at risk to stop a true mass epidemic, then they would have been just that. Pull your heads out of your asses, and get a clue. Another clueless person who consumes too much media, thinking they're well-informed. Just because governments and institutions pour endless amounts of your tax dollars into a solving a problem doesn't mean that when the problem subsided that it was due to those institutions. That's assumption based on fallacious reasoning. There's a reason why ebola was only a serious problem in specific areas of Africa. It turns out, sanitation there is abysmal, and malnutrition runs rampant in third world countries. You're losing sleep over these things, because your education system and news outlets have failed you. cite a medical professional supporting your position
sophistry 101: appeal to authority
Also, I'm not going to do your own homework for you.
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Wow I feel sorry for everyone from the organizers to the players and fans. This really sucks.
ASL also doesn't have a live audience right now.
Sigh. Fucking virus. But Poland is right to play it safe. However dangerous or not it may turn out to be it is certainly spreading and no one wants more disease around.
Let's all watch it from our hopefully safe homes and support the event as best we can!
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I just love how they bash and ban the only reasonable posters in the thread. This and the amount of "specialists in the field" who educate themselves by watching TV (hint: it just doesnt work that way). I can understand the organizers though. Noone wants to be the scapegoat in a world filled with hysteria.
User was warned for this post
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the people crying about the virus response being overblown probably dumped their life savings in tesla shares a month and a half ago. my condolences.
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On February 28 2020 15:16 insitelol wrote:
I just love how they bash and ban the only reasonable posters in the thread. This and the amount of "specialists in the field" who educate themselves by watching TV (hint: it just doesnt work that way). I can understand the organizers though. Noone wants to be the scapegoat in a world filled with hysteria.
Are you the medical authority we have been searching for all along?
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius.
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
I'm not going to argue this, but you are very misinformed.
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On February 28 2020 16:09 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius.
1-2% is based on the Chinese figures which are underreported, they ignore a lot of pneumonia deaths and ascribe it to so we wont really know what the death rate is until a few weeks, months in and reliable data from a more trustworthy country.
Italy has some worrying results so far, deaths tend to be delayed, by at least a week, and they have way too many deaths for a 1-2% mortality, it might actually be as high as 5%, but the bigger issue is the R0 of the disease.
R0 meaning the average number of people an infected person is going to spread his disease to. In COVID-19 it was somewhere between 6-8 in the first few days of the outbreak in Italy and South Korea, meaning the average infected person infected 6-8 people.
The seasonal flu has an R0 of like 1.2...
So after 8 generations of infections of COVID you might have as high as 1.6 million to 16.7 million infections (this might take months, and R0 tends to go down with time and containment procedures).
People who dont understand this are illiterate on the subject, its not just a flu. We have never seen such mass quarantines... ever. Literally, the quarantines we have been seeing in just the first few weeks of the outbreak have been the biggest in humanity's history.
Another issue is the supply chain disruptions, China accounts for 20% of the global industry. The drop in trade we have seen just with China is actually larger than in 2008, if the world needs to close borders, we might be seeing a bigger economic crisis than we saw in 2008.
TLDR: It's not just a flu and anyone who claims it is, is uninformed.
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On February 28 2020 15:49 negativedge wrote:
the people crying about the virus response being overblown probably dumped their life savings in tesla shares a month and a half ago. my condolences.
If they did it a month and a half ago, they are still in really good shape, up about ~150$ per share. And if they sold a few weeks ago they could have netted about 75% increase. 
Stock talk aside, you cant really overreact to a virus such as this, from the point of view of the institutions. A few things can happen:
You take very serious measures
1. Nobody dies in your country, you take credit for stopping the virus
2. People still get infected, you have the right to say you've tried everything in your power
You dont take very serious measures
1. The crisis is not as bad as, everything goes on as normal
2. The crisis is that bad, people are getting sick and dying, and you're blamed for not stopping it
Yes, from the current data, it's not very deadly as long as your a healthy person, you wont die, even if u're infected and manifesting symptoms. But sickly and elderly people are at risk, and there are a lot of unknowns about this thing, so it's a really bad idea to take it lightly.
I'm saying this, as i'm contemplating canceling my long awaited (and paid for) trip to Barcelona. Not because im afraid I would get infected and die, but because i might be caught up in a quarantine or placed under surveillance for weeks upon arriving home, if things take a turn for the worse, and people start to die in Spain like they do in Italy. It's a shitty situation, with no winners, but it is what it is.
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On February 28 2020 16:31 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 15:49 negativedge wrote:
the people crying about the virus response being overblown probably dumped their life savings in tesla shares a month and a half ago. my condolences. If they did it a month and a half ago, they are still in really good shape, up about ~150$ per share. And if they sold a few weeks ago they could have netted about 75% increase. Stock talk aside, you cant really overreact to a virus such as this, from the point of view of the institutions. A few things can happen: You take very serious measures 1. Nobody dies in your country, you take credit for stopping the virus 2. People still get infected, you have the right to say you've tried everything in your power You dont take very serious measures 1. The crisis is not as bad as, everything goes on as normal 2. The crisis is that bad, people are getting sick and dying, and you're blamed for not stopping it Yes, from the current data, it's not very deadly as long as your a healthy person, you wont die, even if u're infected and manifesting symptoms. But sickly and elderly people are at risk, and there are a lot of unknowns about this thing, so it's a really bad idea to take it lightly. I'm saying this, as i'm contemplating canceling my long awaited (and paid for) trip to Barcelona. Not because im afraid I would get infected and die, but because i might be caught up in a quarantine or placed under surveillance for weeks upon arriving home, if things take a turn for the worse, and people start to die in Spain like they do in Italy. It's a shitty situation, with no winners, but it is what it is.
Its not a question of people dying its about the economic supply chain disruption, not a single person can die in your country and you might still have an economic shitstorm on your hands.
Something like 18% of fortune 1000 companies have their primary supplier from China and 96% of them have their secondary supplier from China.
Furthermore what about antibiotics, I luckly live in a country that has a strong pharmaceutical industry with companies such as Krka and Lek making us self sufficient, MOST countries import their antibiotics from... You know it... China.
Including the states. USA moves the majority of their manufacturing oversees...
Secondary bacterial infections can kill you when you are infected with COVID, so what happens now, your country is overtaxed with infections, not enough beds, not enough antibiotics, mortality is going to spike.
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Unfortunate. I guess it's understandable though. Gonna have to see if this affects the players with not as much offline experience in a more positive way.
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I think I know who the flat earthers are in this thread
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On February 28 2020 17:07 Akio wrote:
Unfortunate. I guess it's understandable though. Gonna have to see if this affects the players with not as much offline experience in a more positive way.
hmm, like who?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Just some fancy sources to show it's not just a flu. Some of them may be outdated already but, for example, the CCDC is really slow for me so I will rather work with the link I have.
Death rate is roughly 2 % for China, only people who get into the critical stage die and it's 50 % of them, mostly old men. Considering the PDF is downloading 2 kb/s I dare to say it's overloaded. No child/teen was reported to die from covid
Source: http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9a9b-fea8db1a8f51
I have the PDF saved and can upload if the website will go off as I couldn't download the pdf in the end(for the second time)
Based on who the death rate is over 3,5 % but I would say we need some leniency as not everyone will be reported while every death probably will be.
China stats by WHO: Cumulative confirmed cases 78630, deaths 2747.
Outside China stats by WHO: 1573/57 (3,6 % death rate) (new 643/13 (2 % death rate)).
Source: https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200227-sitrep-38-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=9f98940c_2
(the last report on corona I know about)
The general COVID 19 WHO link with some Q&A and recommendations:
https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019
STRATEGIC OBJECTIVESWHO’s strategic objectives for this response are to:
•Interrupt human-to-human transmissionincluding reducing secondary infections among close contacts and health care workers, preventing transmission amplification events, and preventing further international spread*;
•Identify, isolate and care for patients early, including providing optimizedcare for infected patients;
•Identify and reduce transmission from the animal source;
•Address crucial unknowns regarding clinical severity, extent of transmission and infection, treatment options, and accelerate the development of diagnostics, therapeuticsand vaccines;
•Communicate critical risk and event information to all communities and counter misinformation;
•Minimize social and economic impact through multisectoral partnerships.
*This can be achieved through a combination ofpublic health measures, such as rapid identification, diagnosis and management of the cases, identification and follow up of the contacts, infection prevention and control in healthcare settings, implementation of health measures for travelers, awareness-raising in the populationand risk communication.
Edit> Also, please, realize that there's a big outburst in Europe right now and many players came from Korea where's a big outbreak as well. They could have cancelled earlier, but considering France reported the possible start of epidemy tomorrow YESTERDAY OMG >< evening(at least in the Czech news it was as a hot topic from the late afternoon) I guess the situation simply changed. And many viewers travel across the Europe to see this from already infected countries.
Another edit> of course I am not working in medicine/virology nor I have a degree in that field so I may have misunderstood the numbers and language in which it's written. In that case point my stupidity and correct me. Thanks!
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On February 28 2020 16:09 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius.
So is there anybody in his right mind who'd say we couldn't do well with 2% less people?
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On February 28 2020 17:15 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 17:07 Akio wrote:
Unfortunate. I guess it's understandable though. Gonna have to see if this affects the players with not as much offline experience in a more positive way. hmm, like who?
Cure!
No pun intended
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 28 2020 17:45 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 17:15 Geo.Rion wrote:On February 28 2020 17:07 Akio wrote:
Unfortunate. I guess it's understandable though. Gonna have to see if this affects the players with not as much offline experience in a more positive way. hmm, like who? Cure! No pun intended
Exactly my thoughts, he's a beast online.
On February 28 2020 17:45 Haukinger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 16:09 Silvanel wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius. So is there anybody in his right mind who'd say we couldn't do well with 2% less people?
Remember you cannot select which 2 % will die. It won't be just mass murderers and generally evil people  3 my grandparents died in 2 years and that were very shitty 2 years. And remember mostly old people die from COVID.
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On February 28 2020 17:45 Haukinger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 16:09 Silvanel wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius. So is there anybody in his right mind who'd say we couldn't do well with 2% less people?
There is no way a flu virus can kill 2% of the population. The true risks and numbers will be clear soon enough.
Too bad the vaccine is still a few months down the road, I am not looking forward to this continued mass scare.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 28 2020 17:53 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 17:45 Haukinger wrote:On February 28 2020 16:09 Silvanel wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius. So is there anybody in his right mind who'd say we couldn't do well with 2% less people? There is no way a flu virus can kill 2% of the population. The true risks and numbers will be clear soon enough. Too bad the vaccine is still a few months down the road, I am not looking forward to this continued mass scare.
This is NOT flu. Based on the numbesr of WHO the death rate is over 3 %. If you have better sources than WHO post them.
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According to what I've read, a vaccine will take about 1-1.5 years, but maybe china or some other country makes dangerous human tests so it could go a bit faster.
That said, it's not about the death rate. But I won't explain why again because many people have in here before, so if you just wanna downplay the virus because of a low death rate, go on.
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I could kind of see where the skeptics are coming from; as a private person you can't do much so it's very understandable that people don't want to stress out over things outside of their control.
And no, there is no need to panic - but yes, there is a need to take measures, which governments & health organizations are doing. Hopefully that would help to contain the epidemic.
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On February 28 2020 17:53 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 17:45 Haukinger wrote:On February 28 2020 16:09 Silvanel wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius. So is there anybody in his right mind who'd say we couldn't do well with 2% less people? There is no way a flu virus can kill 2% of the population. The true risks and numbers will be clear soon enough. Too bad the vaccine is still a few months down the road, I am not looking forward to this continued mass scare.
Search on the internet for the spanish flu then. That is what could happen if an epedemic is going unchecked.
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Coronavirus is just a new hype of 2020, there are much worse things in the world than that thing.
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On February 28 2020 18:33 Bomzj wrote:
Coronavirus is just a new hype of 2020, there are much worse things in the world than that thing.
Care to list a few?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 28 2020 18:39 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 18:33 Bomzj wrote:
Coronavirus is just a new hype of 2020, there are much worse things in the world than that thing. Care to list a few?
Leading causes of death in the low income countries which can be prevented or lowered
HIV/AIDS
Diarrhoeal diseases(you would be surprise how many children die from this) - these are, BTW, completely preventable
Malaria
Tubercolosis
Birth asphyxia and birth trauma
Most of these are nonexistant in the west but west have their own issues.
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On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out.
its ruining my portfolio, people are idiots
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On February 28 2020 18:00 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 17:53 Slydie wrote:On February 28 2020 17:45 Haukinger wrote:On February 28 2020 16:09 Silvanel wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. Seasonal Flu across the world has death rate of 0,1%, last year in Poland it had 0,0004%. Coronavirus has 1-2%. Do the math genius. So is there anybody in his right mind who'd say we couldn't do well with 2% less people? There is no way a flu virus can kill 2% of the population. The true risks and numbers will be clear soon enough. Too bad the vaccine is still a few months down the road, I am not looking forward to this continued mass scare. This is NOT flu. Based on the numbesr of WHO the death rate is over 3 %. If you have better sources than WHO post them.
Death rate is well under 1% stop reading propaganda
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On February 28 2020 18:39 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 18:33 Bomzj wrote:
Coronavirus is just a new hype of 2020, there are much worse things in the world than that thing. Care to list a few?
Cancer and stroke.
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China6330 Posts
Oh yeah guy on the internet with no credible medical or research background and zero data, research backing up claims , think they know better than tens of thousands of professionals and only they know the truth, everyone else is indoctrinated by media or authorities.
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United States33555 Posts
Keep your posts related to IEM Katowice/SC2
don't make it a retread of the general discussion thread on ncov
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Fine, I'll pass.
Go Cure! Now it's your time! It;s like online where you're in the beast mode
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Russian Federation66 Posts
Despite everything that happened I am still on my way to Katowice as I kinda don’t have another choice. May post if I find out how other people watch SC2 there, for now I plan to do some sightseeing and watch the games in my hotel room 
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Do people who spent money on tickets get a refund? I would be livid if I traveled all the way to Poland and then got surprised at the last minute by something like this.
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Russian Federation66 Posts
On February 28 2020 19:26 mierin wrote:
Do people who spent money on tickets get a refund? I would be livid if I traveled all the way to Poland and then got surprised at the last minute by something like this.
I bought a ticket and got 2 e-mails at 2 am that refund info will be provided next week. So seems to be they indeed will refund the ticket, but not travel costs obviously
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On February 28 2020 19:23 Devangel wrote:Despite everything that happened I am still on my way to Katowice as I kinda don’t have another choice. May post if I find out how other people watch SC2 there, for now I plan to do some sightseeing and watch the games in my hotel room
Try to get some random Barcraft going! You are probably not alone
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It's more cancelling an event a few hours before it starts that's shitty. Most people attending would have already arrived. Katowice is now just full of tourists with nothing to do
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 28 2020 19:41 Fango wrote:
It's more cancelling an event a few hours before it starts that's shitty. Most people attending would have already arrived. Katowice is now just full of tourists with nothing to do
IT's close to the Czech Republic, we have them cheap alcohols.
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Anyone in Katowice should get in touch with Netwars guys. A bunch of them are going there regardless. Bound to have lots of SC-related fun with them
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On February 28 2020 20:47 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 19:41 Fango wrote:
It's more cancelling an event a few hours before it starts that's shitty. Most people attending would have already arrived. Katowice is now just full of tourists with nothing to do IT's close to the Czech Republic, we have them cheap alcohols.
And alcohol is a disinfectant. Remember: we make no mistakes, we make happy accidents.
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ESL is so responsive it’s great! For their new observer UI for IEM Katowice, they changed the army icon from chevrons to a sword for clarity after people expressed that icon wasn’t as clear.
Starcraft 2 is in great hands with ESL!
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On February 28 2020 07:51 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 07:00 maybenexttime wrote:On February 28 2020 06:43 Slydie wrote:
Bullshit. This virus is no worse than a normal seasonal flu, which actually kills 290k-650k people.
I wonder when this hysteria will fade out. You are clueless. It's mortality rate is a least an order of magnitude higher. A bit of comparison: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.htmlMany things go into how dangerous a virus is: how many are getting sick, how contageous it is and mortality rate. The deathrate of Corona is not certain yet, and it varies heavily for different age groups. If we look back at previous red-alert outbreakes, the death tolls never came close to be justified by the hysteria: SARS: 773 EBOLA: 11310 At worst, I think this could reach the death toll that of a seasonal flu, but this is essentially a fear of the unknown. How much of our lives it is worth cancelling for this should absolutely be debated. Fear itself is a health risk.
I thought the work done in Toronto to contain SARS was heroic and necessary. i thought the way SARS was dealt with in Toronto and southern Ontario was in line with the danger SARS presented.
Whenever any problem is fixed its always easy to say after the fact that it wasn't a big problem.
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Smart move since they are so many travelling from asia there.
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On February 28 2020 23:07 Psychobabas wrote:
Smart move since they are so many travelling from asia there.
Anyone that wanted to attend the event would have arrived in Katowice already. So instead of going to event, they can now go to local bars... What did this sudden last minute ban actually change I wonder?
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Finland960 Posts
On February 29 2020 01:26 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2020 23:07 Psychobabas wrote:
Smart move since they are so many travelling from asia there. Anyone that wanted to attend the event would have arrived in Katowice already. So instead of going to event, they can now go to local bars... What did this sudden last minute ban actually change I wonder?
Spreading them out is still somewhat better than packing everyone into the arena. Most people would've gone to the bars anyway, this doesn't really change that.
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Can we rename the thread to :
"Experts in Covid-19 talks and also iem will not be held"
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I support their decision, even if it sucks that a people who traveled don't get to go.
Shit happens, and this virus is no joke. Better be safe than sorry. Epidemics are bad news, and I support any prudent actions taken by the government and experts.
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Russian Federation66 Posts
I’ve been looking around in Katowice for last hour and a half, it’s 11.15 right now here and the city looks empty. Maybe it is just to early. I was advised to go to the main bar street of the city - barely any people here, and most of pubs open olny at 3 p.m.
Managed to find the infamous cybermachina though, they open at 12 specifically for IEM so i try my luck there
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Last minute ban was a smart move from goverment) All tourists already in Katowice, already paid for all, locals are happy, and don't need to do any refunds and compensations)
Global health is really important, but how they did this desigion is shame.
I spent a lot of time, money, and very tired and upset now(
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EPT
