The first day of the 2019 Global Finals concluded with the Korean Zerg duo of Dark and soO advancing from Group A to earn spots at the eight-player playoffs at BlizzCon, eliminating Circuit players ShoWTimE and SpeCial in the process.
Dark lived up to his #1 WCS Korea billing by advancing in first place from the group, but had to fight hard to take 3-2 victories against both ShoWTimE and soO. Dark was very nearly upset by ShoWTimE in his initial series, losing his expansion to a cannon rush to start game five. ShoWTimE could have closed the series out with a perfect defense against Dark's Nydus counter, but was unable to seal the deal. Dark then scrapped out another 3-2 win against soO in the winners match, with his early game ling-bane plays being the difference.
soO ended up advancing in second place after a marathon series of games, putting up a combined 8-6 map score on the day. While his Hive play looked suspect in his initial series against SpeCial, swarming Lair-stage play and a deft all-in powered him to a 3-2 win. After losing to Dark in the winners match, soO was able to fend off a cannon-happy ShoWTimE in the decider match to secure Group A's second ticket to BlizzCon.
The WCS Global Finals will resume to Group B of the RO16 on Friday, Oct 25 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), featuring Maru, TIME, Stats, and Serral.
On October 25 2019 02:01 dysenterymd wrote: There might only be 4 Zerg in the ro8, I would not be surprised if Reynor flops out of his group.
His KR MMR is about 7000, dude.
achieving a high KR MMR is certainly impressive, but surely we all know MMR isn't a direct measure of skill level, especially in a tournament setting. or are the top 3 players in the world currently Scarlett, Ragnarok and Maru?
On October 25 2019 01:33 Vindicare605 wrote: There's about to be 5 Zergs in the Ro8.
Fun matches though, I find it somewhat hard to believe that Showtime came so close to beating Dark but got absolutely crushed by soO.
Showtime at his own twitter: Well I tried... Didn't play too well vs soO, especially the last game was pretty terrible but after almost 10h not that suprising I guess. Will get them next time!
I'd hate to be that guy that says "told you so", but well before Blizzcon I said that Starcraft at Blizzcon would be ruined if Blizzard did not patch the nydus worm.
I've got nothing against Zerg, nothing against Dark and Soo either, it's fine if they both advance. But I believe swarm host are a massive oversight by the balance team.
Swarmhosts are balanced by their long cooldown, but nydus in it's current state essentially nullifies the cooldown because it allows the swarmhosts to teleport back and forth from their own base to the opponents. Causing insane map control hitting way too early into the game.
There were many early signs from Serral, Rogue, and Dark well before Blizzcon too.
On October 25 2019 02:39 youngjiddle wrote: I'd hate to be that guy that says "told you so", but well before Blizzcon I said that Starcraft at Blizzcon would be ruined if Blizzard did not patch the nydus worm.
I've got nothing against Zerg, nothing against Dark and Soo either, it's fine if they both advance. But I believe swarm host are a massive oversight by the balance team.
Swarmhosts are balanced by their long cooldown, but nydus in it's current state essentially nullifies the cooldown because it allows the swarmhosts to teleport back and forth from their own base to the opponents. Causing insane map control hitting way too early into the game.
There were many early signs from Serral, Rogue, and Dark well before Blizzcon too.
it's not just the nydus, it's also the larger maps and the fact that a lot of the maps are also designed to have weird cliffs near the main base that make for safe-by-ground nydus spots. ideally the way you "outplay" these swarm host strats is by microing your expensive units and getting a serious army onto the other side of the map, but it's very difficult to do, especially since zerg can also camp on 2 base with mass spine and still gain value.
obviously we're getting a major balance rework soon, but another way to deal with it would be by changing the maps - either by making them smaller or by incorporating anti-swarm host nydus design like adding dead air or slightly more linear layouts from the main.
however blizzard usually seems more interested in making new maps "fun" and "weird," which i'm fine with, but it kinda minimizes mapmaking as a balance tool.
So when KR Zerg wins vs ShowTimE or Special in 2019, the main reason is because Zerg is imba?
How about Dark/soO are simply better players than ShoWTimE/Special? Is it a news to anybody?
In what universe would ShoWTimE/Special be favored here? Since when Dark needs balance on his side to win vs ShoWTimE? And if Zerg is so OP, why it wasn't a 3-0 for Dark?
Current level of whine on these forums is so childish and overreacted it's becoming really painful to read. I am not implying balance is perfect right now, but some people are acting like every Zerg victory is due to balance issues.
Arg Special was the only terran that I though he has a real chance to make it out off the group stages, if even him cannot do it that will be very hard for Maru TIME and Heromarine. There is a real chance to have no terran in Ro8.
So when KR Zerg wins vs ShowTimE or Special in 2019, the main reason is because Zerg is imba?
This is whats annoying me as well, these guys were expected to qualify and played well to get through, I honestly think Showtime threw a few games.
What games did he throw? The games he won were either tight/he should have won, the games he lost generally felt like he had little chance once certain things happened.
Good series from Showtime all round, still a showcase of some of the issues with PvZ.
If cannon rushes are being employed as semi-regular openers these days, probably not a good sign. We haven’t even seen the full Zerg toolkit yet, not much BL/Infestor even employed.
The SW/Nydus combo is too strong at pinning Protoss back and chipping away, then build a bank via those trades to either go into air, go hydra/lurker or whatever. Never mind going into BL/Infestor
Showtime losing is not an upset at all, but the manner of the losses encapsulate all the issues in the matchup. He played close to the best I’ve seen from him in some of those games and Dark didn’t look as good as he has recently, but it wasn’t enough to snipe him into the loser’s match.
In the 15 years I've been watching Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 as an adamant fan, I've been treated to some incredible games. But, the WCS / GSL circuit especially delivered in Group A of the Ro 16 at Blizzcon.
Showtime almost ALMOST completely sniped dark with the Nydus defense by Voidray in game 5. He just barely didn't have the star sense. In fact, I think he did have the star sense, but then he doubted himself. What followed was a game in which he actually managed to ALMOST return to even footing, only to fail to snipe one more nydus at 7 o'clock.
He then pushed hard to unnerve Special with highly focused army micromanagement in losing situations. By the time he hit game 10 against Soo, having only 5 or so minutes to recover, and switch mentality back to PvZ, he was utterly exhausted. Soo on the other hand, was considerably less exhausted. He did a better job of pacing himself, accepting lost situations and always considering the big picture.
On October 25 2019 05:07 ThunderJunk wrote: In the 15 years I've been watching Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2 as an adamant fan, I've been treated to some incredible games. But, the WCS / GSL circuit especially delivered in Group A of the Ro 16 at Blizzcon.
Showtime almost ALMOST completely sniped dark with the Nydus defense by Voidray in game 5. He just barely didn't have the star sense. In fact, I think he did have the star sense, but then he doubted himself. What followed was a game in which he actually managed to ALMOST return to even footing, only to fail to snipe one more nydus at 7 o'clock.
He then pushed hard to unnerve Special with highly focused army micromanagement in losing situations. By the time he hit game 10 against Soo, having only 5 or so minutes to recover, and switch mentality back to PvZ, he was utterly exhausted. Soo on the other hand, was considerably less exhausted. He did a better job of pacing himself, accepting lost situations and always considering the big picture.
Also yes, complaining aside the day had some really incredible games and plays.
Showtime’s defence against mines with Phoenixes was bloody immaculate
I'm very happy we got Bo5s and it was a great day, but my god it was super long and you could see the exhaustion from the players. There seems to be a strong incentive to win your matches as quick as possible, to conserve energy and builds.
On October 25 2019 03:32 Majick wrote: So when KR Zerg wins vs ShowTimE or Special in 2019, the main reason is because Zerg is imba?
How about Dark/soO are simply better players than ShoWTimE/Special? Is it a news to anybody?
In what universe would ShoWTimE/Special be favored here? Since when Dark needs balance on his side to win vs ShoWTimE? And if Zerg is so OP, why it wasn't a 3-0 for Dark?
Current level of whine on these forums is so childish and overreacted it's becoming really painful to read. I am not implying balance is perfect right now, but some people are acting like every Zerg victory is due to balance issues.
Showtime wasnt favored, but he played like a complete beast. He outplayed Dark imo. Surprising, I know, given Dark's showings against Korea's best Protoss players, but that's what happened. I was completely blown away by showtime's play vs Dark.
Dark's nydus abuse was disgusting. Since nydus is probably going to get a heavy nerfed after Blizzcon, I think it's safe to say that Dark won because balance was on his side.
On October 25 2019 03:32 Majick wrote: So when KR Zerg wins vs ShowTimE or Special in 2019, the main reason is because Zerg is imba?
How about Dark/soO are simply better players than ShoWTimE/Special? Is it a news to anybody?
In what universe would ShoWTimE/Special be favored here? Since when Dark needs balance on his side to win vs ShoWTimE? And if Zerg is so OP, why it wasn't a 3-0 for Dark?
Current level of whine on these forums is so childish and overreacted it's becoming really painful to read. I am not implying balance is perfect right now, but some people are acting like every Zerg victory is due to balance issues.
Showtime wasnt favored, but he played like a complete beast. He outplayed Dark imo. Surprising, I know, given Dark's showings against Korea's best Protoss players, but that's what happened. I was completely blown away by showtime's play vs Dark.
Dark's nydus abuse was disgusting. Since nydus is probably going to get a heavy nerfed after Blizzcon, I think it's safe to say that Dark won because balance was on his side.
I don’t dispute that Dark is the better player historically but Showtime brought some really strong play today, and Dark didn’t look as good as he did during his GSL games.
Feels like if balance was a bit less wonky Showtime snipes Dark back to the loser’s match.
As it is, it’s a silly matchup. Zerg have so many options to pin Protoss back that require incredible defence while they’re banking and building breathing room, really hard to do.
I don’t dispute that Dark is the better player historically but Showtime brought some really strong play today, and Dark didn’t look as good as he did during his GSL games.
Feels like if balance was a bit less wonky Showtime snipes Dark back to the loser’s match.
Here I must disagree with you. The nydus worms that were denied bit about 300/300 into Dark's economy. He was comfortably banking enough money to where if the nydus worms costed more, they would not have come in handy at cost to him that did not totally drain his bank, and what ollowed was a battle that bashed Showtime's army, leaving a supply disparity that would have given protoss just a little more room to recover... But Dark was so comfortably ahead in that situation that it really was the beginning of the end, despite continued success with destruction of the nydus worms.
I don’t dispute that Dark is the better player historically but Showtime brought some really strong play today, and Dark didn’t look as good as he did during his GSL games.
Feels like if balance was a bit less wonky Showtime snipes Dark back to the loser’s match.
Here I must disagree with you. The nydus worms that were denied bit about 300/300 into Dark's economy. He was comfortably banking enough money to where if the nydus worms costed more, they would not have come in handy at cost to him that did not totally drain his bank, and what ollowed was a battle that bashed Showtime's army, leaving a supply disparity that would have given protoss just a little more room to recover... But Dark was so comfortably ahead in that situation that it really was the beginning of the end, despite continued success with destruction of the nydus worms.
We’re not really disagreeing, I think a Dark on form beats Showtime. Current racial balance means even an off-form Dark beats a Showtime playing incredibly well, because of the racial balance, which we kind of saw.
In a balanced meta a Dark on good form beats Showtime. A Dark playing a bit below his peak is maybe sniped by a Showtime playing out of his mind though.
It’s a broken matchup currently, I don’t feel there’s any bullshitting around this.
OH MY GOD SOOOOOOOOO HAS EXCEEDED MY EXPECTATIONS ALREADY!!!! he should've won that one blizzcon until evil rogue got the victory. hoping for a fairy tale ending this time but not getting my hopes up too high
I don’t dispute that Dark is the better player historically but Showtime brought some really strong play today, and Dark didn’t look as good as he did during his GSL games.
Feels like if balance was a bit less wonky Showtime snipes Dark back to the loser’s match.
Here I must disagree with you. The nydus worms that were denied bit about 300/300 into Dark's economy. He was comfortably banking enough money to where if the nydus worms costed more, they would not have come in handy at cost to him that did not totally drain his bank, and what ollowed was a battle that bashed Showtime's army, leaving a supply disparity that would have given protoss just a little more room to recover... But Dark was so comfortably ahead in that situation that it really was the beginning of the end, despite continued success with destruction of the nydus worms.
We’re not really disagreeing, I think a Dark on form beats Showtime. Current racial balance means even an off-form Dark beats a Showtime playing incredibly well, because of the racial balance, which we kind of saw.
In a balanced meta a Dark on good form beats Showtime. A Dark playing a bit below his peak is maybe sniped by a Showtime playing out of his mind though.
It’s a broken matchup currently, I don’t feel there’s any bullshitting around this.
we can also say that dark may have dumpstered showtime without using swarm hosts, using totally different strategies - that's possible
it's okay to say that dark is better / is favored / deserved to win but also still used a broken, stupid strategy
I don’t dispute that Dark is the better player historically but Showtime brought some really strong play today, and Dark didn’t look as good as he did during his GSL games.
Feels like if balance was a bit less wonky Showtime snipes Dark back to the loser’s match.
Here I must disagree with you. The nydus worms that were denied bit about 300/300 into Dark's economy. He was comfortably banking enough money to where if the nydus worms costed more, they would not have come in handy at cost to him that did not totally drain his bank, and what ollowed was a battle that bashed Showtime's army, leaving a supply disparity that would have given protoss just a little more room to recover... But Dark was so comfortably ahead in that situation that it really was the beginning of the end, despite continued success with destruction of the nydus worms.
We’re not really disagreeing, I think a Dark on form beats Showtime. Current racial balance means even an off-form Dark beats a Showtime playing incredibly well, because of the racial balance, which we kind of saw.
In a balanced meta a Dark on good form beats Showtime. A Dark playing a bit below his peak is maybe sniped by a Showtime playing out of his mind though.
It’s a broken matchup currently, I don’t feel there’s any bullshitting around this.
we can also say that dark may have dumpstered showtime without using swarm hosts, using totally different strategies - that's possible
it's okay to say that dark is better / is favored / deserved to win but also still used a broken, stupid strategy
Well Dark lost every game that he didn't go swarm hosts soo...there's no evidence to suggest he would've dumpster showtime without SH, if anything the evidence suggests otherwise.
Anyway, I think these discussions are kinda silly when deciding who "deserves" to win based on what's on paper. Nydus SH seems too strong but realistically Showtime had game 5 and should've won it way before there was ever any SHs in the game. He went from a near un-losable spot to quite behind because of that nydus. In the end, regardless of balance, he had every opportunity to win that series, and he dropped the ball by his own admission.
On October 25 2019 10:24 Jakroth wrote: Another question is why Dark and Soo were the ones to beat Showtime and Special, rather than TY, Dear, Gumiho, Zest, Innovation, SoS, etc.
EPT
