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Active: 777 users

Rogue sweeps Trap to win Code S Season 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
46 CommentsPost a Reply
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TL.net ESPORTS
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
September 28 2019 20:10 GMT
#1

2019 Global StarCraft II League - Code S Season 3

2017 WCS Global Champion. 2018 IEM World Champion. Now, Rogue can add GSL Code S champion to his list of accolades. With a brutal, 4-0 sweep against teammate Trap in the Code S Season 3 grand finals, Rogue filled the last remaining hole in an otherwise sparkling career resume.

Rogue had previously been one of the GSL's most perplexing underachievers, having gone 0-8 in previous Code S quarterfinal matches. This season, Rogue finally broke his top eight curse, narrowly beating Zest 3-2 in an ugly quarterfinal series. While that particular match was unimpressive, it seemed to unleash the 'real' Rogue for the rest of the tournament. Playing in his first ever Code S semifinal match, Rogue crushed reigning Code S champion Dark by a 4-1 scoreline. Then, in his Code S finals debut last night, he recorded only the fifth finals sweep in Code S history with his brutal takedown of Trap.


4-0 sweeps tend to be ugly by their very nature, but Rogue's dissection of Trap was particularly ruthless and violent.

Trap began the finals with a bit of chicanery on Cyber Forest, revealing a Robotics-first build before pivoting into double-Stargate after killing Rogue's scouting Overlord. Had the strategy worked, it might have let Trap set the tone for the series, making Rogue constantly worry about the possibility of deception. Unfortunately for Trap, Rogue simply invested the 75/75 for Overlord speed and scouted the Stargates. Rogue's reaction was to immediately pullthe trigger on a Nydus all-in, flooding Queens into Trap's bases and forcing out the GG.

Game two on Cobalt followed a somewhat similar pattern, with Trap's DT/Archon drop strategy getting found out early by a couple of Zerglings slipping through his wall. Once again, Rogue's reaction was to go for the throat—or in this case, the Protoss main. Another Nydus Worm popped up in Trap's main, releasing a flood of Queens that forced a quick, second GG from the helpless Trap.

At this point, some fans might have hoped to see a longer game. They got their wish in game three, but mostly likely ended up regretting it. Game three got off to a very King's Cove-y start, with both players expanding and macroing up safely on their side of the map despite some fast-DT's from Trap early on. Just as Trap started to transition into an air-based army, Rogue's Nydus Worms reared their terrifying heads again. Only this time, the Nydus Worms were loaded with Infestors, which were in turn loaded with enough energy for endless waves of Infested Terrans. Rogue relentless picked away at Trap with this Swarm Host-esque harassment, tearing down key buildings and expansions. Once Trap was dead on his feet, Rogue expanded his creep all the way up to Trap's remaining bases and finished the game with the unholy trinity of Spore Crawlers, Brood Lords, and Infestors.

Down 0-3, Trap pulled out his final trump card on Triton: a proxy Glaive-Adept and Immortal all-in. At first, it seemed as if Trap had caught a break, finding Rogue to have played just a little too greedily for comfort. However, Rogue dealt with this crisis calmly, sacrificing his third base and rebuilding it elsewhere, taking careful engagements against the Protoss forces, and even pulling Drones on defense when necessary. Ultimately, Trap ended up eating one too many Corrosive Biles and was unable to get sufficient value out of his Prism-Immortal micro. With his main running of resources and his army starting to dwindle, Trap went for a final, doomed engagement before conceding the final GG of the series.

After the finals, Rogue said he was glad to have finally won a major tournament in Korea, giving his family a chance to witness one of his championship moments in person. He also thanked a formidable group of practice partners, including Stats, Zest, Hurricane, and Dear (even Zerg player Solar got credit for his considerable off-race knowledge). Blizzard also made a post-finals announcement, revealing that opening week of the Global Finals (the Ro16 group stage) would be held in Korea at the very same AfreecaTV studio.

While Rogue's Code S quarterfinal losing streak has finally been broken, one of his positive statistical streaks has actually been extended this tournament. Rogue is now 6-0 in offline best-of-seven matches in his career, with five of those victories coming in grand finals. Rogue may have the opportunity to win two more offline BO7 matches remain this year; in the finals GSL Super Tournament 2, and the WCS Global Finals. 0-8 has been ended; now 8-0 is there for the taking.

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BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
September 28 2019 20:14 GMT
#2
Nice smack talk from Rouge, and then he followed it up and delivered on it too.
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
September 28 2019 20:19 GMT
#3
What was Trap suppose to do against the infested Terran in game 3? Besides, "don't let him get to that point".
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
September 28 2019 20:20 GMT
#4
Repeating this from the game thread.

In 2019
soO won his first significant championship
Dark made and then won his first GSL finals
Rogue made his first GSL ro4, finals, then won the tournament.
It is the first year in LotV and first time since 2015 with 4 ZvZ finals of significant tournaments.
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
September 28 2019 20:21 GMT
#5
On September 29 2019 05:19 jodogohoo wrote:
What was Trap suppose to do against the infested Terran in game 3? Besides, "don't let him get to that point".


I suppose he wasn't supposed to let infestors get into his bases on multiple occasions, but yeah, easier said than done.
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
September 28 2019 20:22 GMT
#6
On September 29 2019 05:20 Boggyb wrote:
Repeating this from the game thread.

In 2019
soO won his first significant championship
Dark made and then won his first GSL finals
Rogue made his first GSL ro4, finals, then won the tournament.
It is the first year in LotV and first time since 2015 with 4 ZvZ finals of significant tournaments.


I don't get it.
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-28 20:34:49
September 28 2019 20:25 GMT
#7
By the way does anyone know where this rank in the fastest final department?

Don't think it was faster than Maru-Zest or Nestea-Inca, but I feel like it clock well under an hour of game time.

Edit: Somewhere around 8-10-28-10 so about an hour, game 3 spoiled the record
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
September 28 2019 20:26 GMT
#8
On September 29 2019 05:21 BaneRiders wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 05:19 jodogohoo wrote:
What was Trap suppose to do against the infested Terran in game 3? Besides, "don't let him get to that point".


I suppose he wasn't supposed to let infestors get into his bases on multiple occasions, but yeah, easier said than done.


I guess in a way, if would be like letting high templars run into your bases over and over again.

Rogue was just hitting trap from every angle with fragile, low mobility casters. Meanwhile trap was making carriers that did nothing.
THERIDDLER
Profile Joined July 2014
Canada119 Posts
September 28 2019 20:50 GMT
#9
On September 29 2019 05:19 jodogohoo wrote:
What was Trap suppose to do against the infested Terran in game 3? Besides, "don't let him get to that point".


Lost to maru and let him deal with it
Please don't fricken hack, its just a game.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
September 28 2019 21:19 GMT
#10
Not sure if I would favour anyone against Rogue in a best of 7 at this point.
DSh1
Profile Joined April 2017
292 Posts
September 28 2019 21:41 GMT
#11
So Rogue just Nydused and Trap couldn't close out game 4?
Snakestyle11
Profile Joined December 2018
191 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-28 21:43:05
September 28 2019 21:42 GMT
#12
On September 29 2019 06:19 Anc13nt wrote:
Not sure if I would favour anyone against Rogue in a best of 7 at this point.


Seral totally outclassed rogue in every single way last time they played at blizzcon...
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
September 28 2019 21:48 GMT
#13
On September 29 2019 06:42 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 06:19 Anc13nt wrote:
Not sure if I would favour anyone against Rogue in a best of 7 at this point.


Seral totally outclassed rogue in every single way last time they played at blizzcon...


It was a bo5, it's not like Serral is the only player who has crush Rogue.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
paloma_rivers
Profile Joined September 2019
8 Posts
September 28 2019 22:14 GMT
#14
lol serral
cizzy819
Profile Joined August 2019
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-28 23:25:05
September 28 2019 22:30 GMT
#15
Was the most boring abysmal finals of all time.

Zerg have very serious balance issues. What do you expect when a race has 3 units that make "free units"? Just use one of your available free units, And build a bank that nobody can deal with by out trading, Make a spore forest. You add Vipers, , Creep mechanic, an a flying pylon that's faster than any unit in the game (With upgrade, that's 75/75). On top of no Nydus CD, and is practically free. Can also use drops if they want.

Wouldn't be as bad if 14 queens hold off everything. Easy to get to the stage that they destroy Protoss/Terran.

TL;DR Blizzvision over buffed the race of Serral to win everything to try an raise eSport Sc2 awareness to foreigners and deleted Terran so Koreans stop winning. (Can't balance micro, pretty sure that's why the map pool have been harder for Terrans using Bio as well)

User was temp banned for this post.
Cokefreak
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland8095 Posts
September 28 2019 22:36 GMT
#16
This just proves that Serral is the best player in the world or the GOAT or a bonjwa if that is the term you prefer

Go Serral, master of the universe!

Finland > South Korea
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
September 28 2019 22:48 GMT
#17
On September 29 2019 06:48 Nakajin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 06:42 Snakestyle11 wrote:
On September 29 2019 06:19 Anc13nt wrote:
Not sure if I would favour anyone against Rogue in a best of 7 at this point.


Seral totally outclassed rogue in every single way last time they played at blizzcon...


It was a bo5, it's not like Serral is the only player who has crush Rogue.


Bo7 or Bo9, Rogue wouldn't have won that day.
With Zerg being strong, Rogue is a serious contender but Serral should just be better, both overall and in a direct confrontation.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
September 28 2019 22:58 GMT
#18
On September 29 2019 07:48 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 06:48 Nakajin wrote:
On September 29 2019 06:42 Snakestyle11 wrote:
On September 29 2019 06:19 Anc13nt wrote:
Not sure if I would favour anyone against Rogue in a best of 7 at this point.


Seral totally outclassed rogue in every single way last time they played at blizzcon...


It was a bo5, it's not like Serral is the only player who has crush Rogue.


Bo7 or Bo9, Rogue wouldn't have won that day.
With Zerg being strong, Rogue is a serious contender but Serral should just be better, both overall and in a direct confrontation.


God damit, its not what I was saying at all..
The guy said he wouldn't favor anyone in a bo7 vs Rogue after he went 6-0 in them. It's just a comment about his streak, it like saying Huricane smoke him last ST, we don't have to make everything about Serral all of the time. (who I do think is better anyway but whatever)
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
September 28 2019 23:25 GMT
#19
On September 29 2019 07:58 Nakajin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 07:48 Xain0n wrote:
On September 29 2019 06:48 Nakajin wrote:
On September 29 2019 06:42 Snakestyle11 wrote:
On September 29 2019 06:19 Anc13nt wrote:
Not sure if I would favour anyone against Rogue in a best of 7 at this point.


Seral totally outclassed rogue in every single way last time they played at blizzcon...


It was a bo5, it's not like Serral is the only player who has crush Rogue.


Bo7 or Bo9, Rogue wouldn't have won that day.
With Zerg being strong, Rogue is a serious contender but Serral should just be better, both overall and in a direct confrontation.


God damit, its not what I was saying at all..
The guy said he wouldn't favor anyone in a bo7 vs Rogue after he went 6-0 in them. It's just a comment about his streak, it like saying Huricane smoke him last ST, we don't have to make everything about Serral all of the time. (who I do think is better anyway but whatever)


Wait, are you saying it's possible not to involve Serral into any discussion regarding Sc2? That's new to me!
I didn't bring him in, but once he was named I just couldn't resist.
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-28 23:50:49
September 28 2019 23:50 GMT
#20
On September 29 2019 07:36 Cokefreak wrote:
This just proves that Serral is the best player in the world or the GOAT or a bonjwa if that is the term you prefer

Go Serral, master of the universe!

Finland > South Korea

Rogue beating Trap 4-0 when Serral beat him 3-1 proves that Serral is the best play in the world? Maybe you should lay off the cocaine for a bit.
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
September 29 2019 00:04 GMT
#21
On September 29 2019 08:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 07:36 Cokefreak wrote:
This just proves that Serral is the best player in the world or the GOAT or a bonjwa if that is the term you prefer

Go Serral, master of the universe!

Finland > South Korea

Rogue beating Trap 4-0 when Serral beat him 3-1 proves that Serral is the best play in the world? Maybe you should lay off the cocaine for a bit.


Serral won with SH+Nydus instead of Ling+Queen+Nydus so his victory is more honourable.

No, but in all serious, this was a bad finals due to the sweep but the games themselves could've been worse. I thought Game 1 and Game 4 were decentish, and Game 3 was fun just cos it's cool to see Rogue play late game when he's in prime form. Game 2 was just an awful, flustered game by Trap.

Still a pretty bad finals but I'm gonna call this better than the NesTea finals and some of the other early GSL ones.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
tigon_ridge
Profile Joined March 2019
482 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-29 00:13:17
September 29 2019 00:13 GMT
#22
6-0 in bo7? Wow! I wonder who has the best streak for playing between noon and evening, or the best streak for playing with shoes untied. Isn't everyone curious of who has the best streak while playing with average APM between 367-409, since those are prime numbers? Me, too!
TentativePanda
Profile Joined August 2014
United States800 Posts
September 29 2019 00:18 GMT
#23
That’s sick that the Ro16 is gonna be played in Korea
tigon_ridge
Profile Joined March 2019
482 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-29 00:23:57
September 29 2019 00:19 GMT
#24
On September 29 2019 08:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 07:36 Cokefreak wrote:
This just proves that Serral is the best player in the world or the GOAT or a bonjwa if that is the term you prefer

Go Serral, master of the universe!

Finland > South Korea

Rogue beating Trap 4-0 when Serral beat him 3-1 proves that Serral is the best play in the world? Maybe you should lay off the cocaine for a bit.

Pretty sure he meant it's cause Serral defeated Rogue in 3 series in the past, and they're 7-2 in maps, but both his and your logic are equally flawed.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-29 00:22:15
September 29 2019 00:20 GMT
#25
On September 29 2019 09:13 tigon_ridge wrote:
6-0 in bo7? Wow! I wonder who has the best streak for playing between noon and evening, or the best streak for playing with shoes untied. Isn't everyone curious of who has the best streak while playing with average APM between 367-409, since those are prime numbers? Me, too!

since you don't seem to grasp what makes that number significant:

longer series are more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck. very small random variables can influence the result of a single game, but as you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor. this is because the longer you play, the larger your statistical sample size.

in a related concept, this is also part of why many people consider long macro games more representative of "overall" skill, because you have to master various stages of the game and account for a larger range of scenarios over a longer period of time

your joke was cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics
TL+ Member
tigon_ridge
Profile Joined March 2019
482 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-29 00:35:04
September 29 2019 00:32 GMT
#26
On September 29 2019 09:20 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 09:13 tigon_ridge wrote:
6-0 in bo7? Wow! I wonder who has the best streak for playing between noon and evening, or the best streak for playing with shoes untied. Isn't everyone curious of who has the best streak while playing with average APM between 367-409, since those are prime numbers? Me, too!

since you don't seem to grasp what makes that number significant:

longer series are more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck. very small random variables can influence the result of a single game, but as you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor. this is because the longer you play, the larger your statistical sample size.

in a related concept, this is also part of why many people consider long macro games more representative of "overall" skill, because you have to master various stages of the game and account for a larger range of scenarios over a longer period of time

your joke was cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics

Since you seem to think you understand what you're talking about:

Longer series are indeed "more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck," but long series don't mean squat when taken in isolation, while ignoring performances in shorter series. "...As you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor." Indeed. Now replace "games" with "series," and that's also true, but even more meaningful. Short series in aggregate are just as meaningful as long series in aggregate.

Your reply was not cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33422 Posts
September 29 2019 00:34 GMT
#27
On September 29 2019 09:32 tigon_ridge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 09:20 brickrd wrote:
On September 29 2019 09:13 tigon_ridge wrote:
6-0 in bo7? Wow! I wonder who has the best streak for playing between noon and evening, or the best streak for playing with shoes untied. Isn't everyone curious of who has the best streak while playing with average APM between 367-409, since those are prime numbers? Me, too!

since you don't seem to grasp what makes that number significant:

longer series are more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck. very small random variables can influence the result of a single game, but as you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor. this is because the longer you play, the larger your statistical sample size.

in a related concept, this is also part of why many people consider long macro games more representative of "overall" skill, because you have to master various stages of the game and account for a larger range of scenarios over a longer period of time

your joke was cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics

Since you seem you think you understand what you're talking about:

Longer series are indeed "more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck," but long series don't mean squat when taken in isolation, while ignoring performances in shorter series. "...As you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor." Indeed. Now replace "games" with "series," and that's also true, but even more meaningful. Short series in aggregate are just as meaningful as long series in aggregate.

Your reply was not cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics.


i was more hoping you'd learn something about FUN
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
tigon_ridge
Profile Joined March 2019
482 Posts
September 29 2019 00:38 GMT
#28
On September 29 2019 09:34 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 09:32 tigon_ridge wrote:
On September 29 2019 09:20 brickrd wrote:
On September 29 2019 09:13 tigon_ridge wrote:
6-0 in bo7? Wow! I wonder who has the best streak for playing between noon and evening, or the best streak for playing with shoes untied. Isn't everyone curious of who has the best streak while playing with average APM between 367-409, since those are prime numbers? Me, too!

since you don't seem to grasp what makes that number significant:

longer series are more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck. very small random variables can influence the result of a single game, but as you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor. this is because the longer you play, the larger your statistical sample size.

in a related concept, this is also part of why many people consider long macro games more representative of "overall" skill, because you have to master various stages of the game and account for a larger range of scenarios over a longer period of time

your joke was cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics

Since you seem you think you understand what you're talking about:

Longer series are indeed "more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck," but long series don't mean squat when taken in isolation, while ignoring performances in shorter series. "...As you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor." Indeed. Now replace "games" with "series," and that's also true, but even more meaningful. Short series in aggregate are just as meaningful as long series in aggregate.

Your reply was not cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics.


i was more hoping you'd learn something about FUN

It's hard to tell if a TL writer is being facetious, sometimes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
AlexZhang1012
Profile Joined June 2019
63 Posts
September 29 2019 01:01 GMT
#29
As we can see, Rogue's practice has paid off. His Nydus harrassment timing is perfect, has a new understanding of Infestors and infested marines, and has a great sense of distance with BLs. Btw, anyone else reminded by game 3 of the time when Raven's anti-armor missle deals damage, and everyone just massive Raven fleet?
Dave4
Profile Joined August 2018
494 Posts
September 29 2019 01:42 GMT
#30
On September 29 2019 09:32 tigon_ridge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 09:20 brickrd wrote:
On September 29 2019 09:13 tigon_ridge wrote:
6-0 in bo7? Wow! I wonder who has the best streak for playing between noon and evening, or the best streak for playing with shoes untied. Isn't everyone curious of who has the best streak while playing with average APM between 367-409, since those are prime numbers? Me, too!

since you don't seem to grasp what makes that number significant:

longer series are more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck. very small random variables can influence the result of a single game, but as you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor. this is because the longer you play, the larger your statistical sample size.

in a related concept, this is also part of why many people consider long macro games more representative of "overall" skill, because you have to master various stages of the game and account for a larger range of scenarios over a longer period of time

your joke was cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics

Since you seem to think you understand what you're talking about:

Longer series are indeed "more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck," but long series don't mean squat when taken in isolation, while ignoring performances in shorter series. "...As you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor." Indeed. Now replace "games" with "series," and that's also true, but even more meaningful. Short series in aggregate are just as meaningful as long series in aggregate.

Your reply was not cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics.

Strange arguments guys, surely you both realise that there is no one indicative measure. You can't just look at Bo7 because there are so many other factors at play such as who the opponent was, race, maps, team houses, amount of practice time, jet lag, off days... Equally you can't completely discard them entirely. In any case, 6 Bo7 is still a relatively small sample overall so arguing statistics is just weird.

Why can't we just agree both Rogue and Serral are very good players?
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
September 29 2019 02:42 GMT
#31
It doesn't mean Rogue is better than Serral just because he is great at bo7, I never implied anything like that. It is not a super important statistic nor is it pointless. It is like soO being very strong before GSL final, which no one disputes even though he is only 7-1 in GSL ro8 and 6-1 in ro4 (not much better of a record than Rogue's bo7 record). It appears Rogue is really strong in bo7 and he seems to think so himself. Most of his bo7 series have been very one-sided too (only herO vs Rogue went to 7 games from my memory). Doesn't mean he is better than Serral but it's not as pointless or arbitrary as having "x win rate with even number apm."
Darkness2k11
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Chile313 Posts
September 29 2019 03:33 GMT
#32
This finals was pretty bad, but even tho Rogue says zerg is op I think this had more to do with Trap playing below his skills:

- Game 1 he got countered and didn't notice the nydus on his main
- Game 2 he had a sloppy early game (bad adept control, sentries getting caught) and did not react to the nydus at all despite game 1
- Game 3 he gets an advantage and instead of punishing Rogue Trap decides to play it safe, which is fine on paper but he took too long to get anywhere, it was like 5 minutes until he finally got carriers and he did very little harassment, basically just let Rogue build up and play his own game
- Game 4 decides to all-in, doesn't get scouted, then he randomly reveals glaves having only 4? adepts, letting Rogue react, I'm not sure if this was a mistake or intentional. Then proceeds to eat a whole bunch of corrosive biles during all of the engagements and eventually gets overrun

I'm a protoss player and I was super hyped for Trap after he delivered vs Maru, I'm sad
When Behind, Dark Shrine
Corgi
Profile Joined December 2014
United States408 Posts
September 29 2019 03:37 GMT
#33
Its no secret Serral's weakest matchup is ZvZ due to the nature of ZvZ.

That's why zerg players like Elaser and Reynor can take games off of him despite being worse in every category that matters. And we know Serral is a very strong ZvZ player already but can lose again, due to the problem with mirror matchups.

Anyways Rogue bitch slapped Trap out of this tournament. Hopefully we'll see more strong performances from Trap for the rest of the year.
tigon_ridge
Profile Joined March 2019
482 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-09-29 05:10:02
September 29 2019 05:05 GMT
#34
On September 29 2019 12:37 Corgi wrote:
Its no secret Serral's weakest matchup is ZvZ due to the nature of ZvZ.

That's why zerg players like Elaser and Reynor can take games off of him despite being worse in every category that matters. And we know Serral is a very strong ZvZ player already but can lose again, due to the problem with mirror matchups.

Anyways Rogue bitch slapped Trap out of this tournament. Hopefully we'll see more strong performances from Trap for the rest of the year.

It's very hard to argue what Serral's weakest/strongest MU is. Losing a few games in a MU can be chalked up to randomness of SC2. Don't let those 3-1 against protoss and terrans fool you. In many of those games he won, they were very close. Serral's recent 4-0 against Reynor should not be discounted so easily. Remember, Reynor's best MU is ZvZ, and he's easily considered 2nd best foreigner overall. Arguably, Serral was more or less having fun with Elazer (he even said so in the interview post-semi-final), while Elazer was playing his heart and brains out.
gpanda
Profile Joined December 2017
36 Posts
September 29 2019 05:15 GMT
#35
On September 29 2019 08:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 07:36 Cokefreak wrote:
This just proves that Serral is the best player in the world or the GOAT or a bonjwa if that is the term you prefer

Go Serral, master of the universe!

Finland > South Korea

Rogue beating Trap 4-0 when Serral beat him 3-1 proves that Serral is the best play in the world? Maybe you should lay off the cocaine for a bit.


No, but the best of IMBA zerg.


User was warned for this post.
RAPiDCasting
Profile Joined July 2009
Korea (South)594 Posts
September 29 2019 09:56 GMT
#36
Well well well...
The faster caster. @RAPiDCasting
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
September 29 2019 11:28 GMT
#37
On September 29 2019 18:56 RAPiDCasting wrote:
Well well well...


Great call on the pylon show!
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
September 29 2019 18:54 GMT
#38
On September 29 2019 06:42 Snakestyle11 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 06:19 Anc13nt wrote:
Not sure if I would favour anyone against Rogue in a best of 7 at this point.


Seral totally outclassed rogue in every single way last time they played at blizzcon...


It was a BO5 and the way I remember it, Rogue put up a good fight. Serral was just untouchable in ZvZ at that time.
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
September 29 2019 21:50 GMT
#39
On September 29 2019 09:32 tigon_ridge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 09:20 brickrd wrote:
On September 29 2019 09:13 tigon_ridge wrote:
6-0 in bo7? Wow! I wonder who has the best streak for playing between noon and evening, or the best streak for playing with shoes untied. Isn't everyone curious of who has the best streak while playing with average APM between 367-409, since those are prime numbers? Me, too!

since you don't seem to grasp what makes that number significant:

longer series are more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck. very small random variables can influence the result of a single game, but as you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor. this is because the longer you play, the larger your statistical sample size.

in a related concept, this is also part of why many people consider long macro games more representative of "overall" skill, because you have to master various stages of the game and account for a larger range of scenarios over a longer period of time

your joke was cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics

Since you seem to think you understand what you're talking about:

Longer series are indeed "more representative results than shorter ones due to randomness and luck," but long series don't mean squat when taken in isolation, while ignoring performances in shorter series. "...As you play more games it becomes more likely that randomness will go in your favor as often as your opponent's favor." Indeed. Now replace "games" with "series," and that's also true, but even more meaningful. Short series in aggregate are just as meaningful as long series in aggregate.

Your reply was not cute, but hopefully you learned something about statistics.


Nothing is taken in isolation though. This is actually a meaningful stat when a Bo7 comes around for all the reasons he (and you) just mentioned. These stats can only be used in contexts where they are relevant, but their significant is much more than some arbitrary random stat (like the shoe untie etc..)

It's like those ridiculous Bo5 set stats that tennis players have (and to a lesser extent, tie-breaker stats). People don't talk about their Bo5 records during normal ATP 250/500 or Masters tournaments because they aren't relevant. But when we're heading to a fifth set in a grand slam match, suddenly those stats have a lot of weight and meaning. There's a reason why Grand Slam results have remained highly consistent (or at least as consistent as could possibly be) for several years, and the stats provide some sort of insight into that.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
September 29 2019 21:58 GMT
#40
On September 29 2019 14:05 tigon_ridge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2019 12:37 Corgi wrote:
Its no secret Serral's weakest matchup is ZvZ due to the nature of ZvZ.

That's why zerg players like Elaser and Reynor can take games off of him despite being worse in every category that matters. And we know Serral is a very strong ZvZ player already but can lose again, due to the problem with mirror matchups.

Anyways Rogue bitch slapped Trap out of this tournament. Hopefully we'll see more strong performances from Trap for the rest of the year.

It's very hard to argue what Serral's weakest/strongest MU is. Losing a few games in a MU can be chalked up to randomness of SC2. Don't let those 3-1 against protoss and terrans fool you. In many of those games he won, they were very close. Serral's recent 4-0 against Reynor should not be discounted so easily. Remember, Reynor's best MU is ZvZ, and he's easily considered 2nd best foreigner overall. Arguably, Serral was more or less having fun with Elazer (he even said so in the interview post-semi-final), while Elazer was playing his heart and brains out.


Pretty sure Serral considers ZvZ his best matchup, even taking the volatility into account. I'd say he's probably more likely to lose games to a weaker player in ZvZ compared to his other matchups, but in terms of actual series, he still almost always comes out on top. Plus, I honestly think he's just gotten better and better in this matchup over time, we saw Reynor put up a great fight against Serral for half of the year. Since then, Serral has made Reynor look like a fool, which is crazy because Reynor makes other people look like a fool in ZvZ.

Rogue always talks big so I'm not too surprised he believes he can take on Serral in a long, macro game. Last year, he said something along the lines of "I'm unbeatable in ZvZ" right before facing Serral, and well, he wasn't unbeatable. That confidence definitely need that matchup more interesting, so I wouldn't mind if they faced each other again. Rogue borders on arrogant sometimes but tbh, he looks great against Dark so it's not completely unwarranted. But it's pretty safe to say Serral's ZvZ is a big step above Dark's ZvZ, which is an obvious weakness of his.

Hoping for a Rogue vs Serral at Blizzcon.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
LTCM
Profile Joined May 2017
174 Posts
September 29 2019 22:13 GMT
#41
Super tournament is going to have the lowest viewership in the history of sc2. This meta is trash and the game is bleeding viewership like never before.

Go ahead, give me the ban. Just know that you are burying your head in the sand.

User was temp banned for this post.
Byun is a convicted match-fixer.
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
September 29 2019 23:59 GMT
#42
On September 30 2019 07:13 LTCM wrote:
Super tournament is going to have the lowest viewership in the history of sc2. This meta is trash and the game is bleeding viewership like never before.

Go ahead, give me the ban. Just know that you are burying your head in the sand.


Nonsensical negativity. We have seen a better meta, the rest is just you delirating.
General_Winter
Profile Joined February 2011
United States719 Posts
September 30 2019 14:50 GMT
#43
Yeah. Balance issues aside, the series was pretty fun to watch. Some of those all ins were pretty scrappy for a while. They seem one sided in retrospect knowing how the series went, but watching them as they played out made for some pretty tense moments where it looked like Trap was about to hold. The long game was interesting. And the final toss all in game was also really exciting and again, closer than it sounds in context of a 4-0. If trap dodged biles a little better or had gone for a few more risky warp ins and gotten away with another round of warp ins close to the front early in the all in that could have been a win.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
September 30 2019 15:45 GMT
#44
On September 30 2019 23:50 General_Winter wrote:
Yeah. Balance issues aside, the series was pretty fun to watch. Some of those all ins were pretty scrappy for a while. They seem one sided in retrospect knowing how the series went, but watching them as they played out made for some pretty tense moments where it looked like Trap was about to hold. The long game was interesting. And the final toss all in game was also really exciting and again, closer than it sounds in context of a 4-0. If trap dodged biles a little better or had gone for a few more risky warp ins and gotten away with another round of warp ins close to the front early in the all in that could have been a win.


I think game 3 was good, game 4 was decent, game 1 was bad and game 2 was really bad. When I saw that the length of the youtube video of the finals was not much longer than 2 hours, I knew it would be a stomp.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4949 Posts
September 30 2019 16:52 GMT
#45
poor rogue..... he wins GSL and everybody only talks about balance.... like rogue is the only Zerg player winning tournaments with this patch or something.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
BadHabits
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada45 Posts
September 30 2019 20:05 GMT
#46
what do you expect? if trap won it would've been "wow trap seriously outplayed rogue" but rogue wins and it's wow.. balance.

when in reality, trap choked, rogue played some of the best starcraft anyone possibly could, you could tell he wanted that trophy and trap was not going to stop him that day.
i'm just here to have fun
cizzy819
Profile Joined August 2019
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-10-03 22:42:48
October 03 2019 22:41 GMT
#47
On October 01 2019 05:05 BadHabits wrote:
what do you expect? if trap won it would've been "wow trap seriously outplayed rogue" but rogue wins and it's wow.. balance.

when in reality, trap choked, rogue played some of the best starcraft anyone possibly could, you could tell he wanted that trophy and trap was not going to stop him that day.


it wasnt rogue winning it was how we won, the strategies he used,

one game wasn't even over an he had used 26 Nydus networks. the other, who knows.

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