EPTTrue Protagonist - Trap in the Code S Finals - Page 2
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Juny1spion
Czech Republic25 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On September 27 2019 02:34 UnLarva wrote: User was warned for this post. Uh, what? What about this post was worthy of a warning? | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On September 27 2019 03:59 Boggyb wrote: Uh, what? What about this post was worthy of a warning? My first guess would be the fact that he went completely off the rails to make this Trap GSL preview thread about Serral. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19391 Posts
On September 27 2019 03:59 Boggyb wrote: Uh, what? What about this post was worthy of a warning? We are now warning posters for stat-based serral facts. If you're going to post about Serral it better be blind emotional jibber jabber! + Show Spoiler + Honestly, no clue why the warning lol. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On September 27 2019 04:01 Elentos wrote: My first guess would be the fact that he went completely off the rails to make this Trap GSL preview thread about Serral. While Serral isn't normally relevant to the GSL, the fact that he was Trap's last major Zerg opponent in a significant tournament makes him and his ZvP prowess relative to Rogue's absolutely pertinent. You can't see what it was for? | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
On September 26 2019 13:36 TL.net ESPORTS wrote: [/center]by Wax He currently stands at #2 in the WCS Korea rankings and has taken quality wins off the likes of INnoVation, TY, Classic, and Maru throughout the season. </em></div></div></div> Cure instead of Classic I assume, Classic plays Protoss now. I didn't even spot it on first read. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On September 27 2019 03:59 Boggyb wrote: Uh, what? What about this post was worthy of a warning? Y'a I mean it's like we can't speak about Serral anywhere these days On a side note, unless Rogue plays this as bad as vs Zest, it's gonna be a blowout. Trap pvz just aint that good. | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1718 Posts
Sure his PvT is good, but hate his other matchups Never been so confident that Rogue will smash Trap this weekend | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
On September 27 2019 05:11 paddyz wrote: [/center]Cure instead of Classic I assume, Classic plays Protoss now. I didn't even spot it on first read. NVM you probably meant Classic PvP last season, my bad, thought that paragraph was about PvT. Back to Cure is left out, I guess the blink allin vs Cure wasn't special but Cure is great at TvP. More impressive head to take in my book than Innovation. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27459 Posts
On September 27 2019 02:00 paddyz wrote: I wouldn't simplify Trap to "just turtle and expect to grind out a win after a late-game slog", I would honestly say his opponant, Rogue is the (or 2nd) best example of someone who usually has that approach. I watch all of Traps games that are available, he has a decent amount of diversity to his play. He goes with double robo more consistently vs Zerg than most and he opens with Stargate vs Terran more than most would be a fair claim. Imo he thinks more than most too and "just do what is correct in the situation" maybe with a bit of risk aversion would fit better than "just turtle" for him. He was one of the first to show aggression with blink stalkers vs Swarm host transitions rather than the more passive storm and shield batteries and hope the zerg sends locusts at the shield batteries at the 3rd. Imo Trap times his pre broodlord/infestor attacks really well, before broodlord/infestor while having as good an army for that timing as possible. One doesn't often see him "turtling" at his own base as broodlords and infestors pop. He also often aims to make very cost efficient compositions in PvZ and min maxes for that, delaying the timing of when would be correct to attack. He often has more High templar and Immortals earlier but less stalker/ zealot as he is very good at knowing what corners he can cut. You can't blame Trap for the state of ZvP. Its silly to pick out protoss players who have better PvZ winrates than trap saying it makes Trap bad at PvZ, then say those protoss players with better winrates just have them because they faced many weaker zergs, and call it a knock on those too. Then you're effectively mocking them for picking Protoss and being put vs Zergs. Trap is also not vs a weak Zerg and the best Zergs are all doing great vs Protoss (Ragnarok even recently called it an unfair easier matchup for Zerg after beating Zest). What people currently look like they could play protoss and beat the likes of Serral, Solar, Dark or Rogue in a bo7 without the zerg having a bad day or big mistakes. Don't take that and mock the player for having to play a currently one sided at the top level matchup (Aliguliac has top 5 zergs leading by 13% and top 5 protoss lagging by 14% : aligulac.com/periods/ ). Is the point of the article not to hype up Trap for the most impressive achievement from a Protoss in awhile rather than mock him for playing the weaker race in (IMO both currently and historically) the most 1 sided matchup, PvZ (Zerg favoured). I am not basing this on personal experience but on data. Aliguliac balance graph has P losing to Z in PvZ as the most 1 sided matchup overall. I am only bringing it up because the article. Also Cure is not on the list of Terrans that Trap beat even though Cure has been great at TvP recently and is now the highest rated TvP player (it honestly could be a large part of why Trap and him are so good at the matchup). -Longtime Trap fan (Thank you to this site for putting up breakdowns of some of Traps early HOTS builds like DT drop rush vs meta Widowmine drop etc, nice to see him get exposure again) . Hype for Trap! Solid post and analysis, would read again oh fellow Irishman! | ||
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Xamo
Spain886 Posts
I agree with the OP that he has more possibilities if he tries crazy things, but that style is definitively not his. | ||
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
So if anything the way Trap won in a messy game where Solar made mistakes and the fact that the Zest vs Rogue series was so messy could be representative of Trap & Zest succeeding in their intention of playing to maximise the chances of a zerg mistake in a messy game rather than believing in P to be able to beat Z in a clean game (as Protosses have tried to do with little success). This, I think is why we don't see "clean" Protoss wins vs Zerg late game. Signature trap would be Immortal, Archon storm push right before broods are ready, with blink stalkers too if rogue went SH. (2nd SG phoenix with archons defending from warp prism if vs muta). I wonder if Trap would ever even try to replicate Stats approach in game 2 vs Serral in Assembly and think he has control over his own success like that vs Infestor/Brood now that infested Terrans are nerfed. It would be amazing if there was something Protoss could do to win cleanly without relying on a clear Zerg mistake. I think Trap is way up there for people smart enough to work it out if there is a way, I am not getting my hopes up though. I was really glad to see Trap get put vs the best Terrans on his way to the final and showcase peak PvT. Also nice to see Jin Air Zerg, Protoss & Terran in the final 4. Either way we have a new GSL champion soon I think, grats to them, deserved. | ||
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zumpy
United States122 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 27 2019 04:04 Boggyb wrote: While Serral isn't normally relevant to the GSL, the fact that he was Trap's last major Zerg opponent in a significant tournament makes him and his ZvP prowess relative to Rogue's absolutely pertinent. You can't see what it was for? It was reported by a user for: "poorly veiled effort to stir up serral discussion in a thread that has nothing to do with it", and it seems the responding moderator chose to warn for it. I also have to voice my protest there, that warning is absurd. The user did nothing wrong, and in my mind was actually contributing. The article even brings up Serral and a comparison between him and Rogue, not that it really matters. TBH it maybe seems likely the mod is just busy and trying to keep things in check without having to study everything that is going on with the post. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19391 Posts
On September 27 2019 08:21 travis wrote: It was reported by a user for: "poorly veiled effort to stir up serral discussion in a thread that has nothing to do with it", and it seems the responding moderator chose to warn for it. I also have to voice my protest there, that warning is absurd. The user did nothing wrong, and in my mind was actually contributing. The article even brings up Serral and a comparison between him and Rogue, not that it really matters. TBH it maybe seems likely the mod is just busy and trying to keep things in check without having to study everything that is going on with the post. Yup, some times you just get a "brush it off" warning. Don't sweat it unless your intentions are to be a trouble maker. Then you can bet your keaster the banling squad will get you again. | ||
KadaverBB
Germany25658 Posts
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UnLarva
458 Posts
More relevancy to the comment comes from the fact that recent form Trap can meet Serral in Blizzcon, regardless of do he win or lose this final Code S. Code S season 3 champion or runner-up is certainly at least minor favorite for successful Blizzcon, right? Anyway, its seems to me uphill battle for Trap, in which I hope him only best luck. On general level, its certain that both Top Level Protosses and Zergs are doing (or at least should be doing) their respective studies with past Serral ZvP vods and vids in that match up, but that goes without underlining as its obvious thing to do. I personally consider both Trap and Rogue a top level of their races... | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On September 27 2019 23:30 HolydaKing wrote: I'm expecting Trap to win 4-1, hope the matches will be decent to watch - PvZ can be terrible but can be great too. The chance of that happening is not as high as my chance of graduating with my BS in EE without any debt. | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
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