EPTOn July 19 2019 06:27 K5 wrote:
Everyone is talking about directly buffing Terran and nerfing Protoss. But no one wonders why the game is in such a bad state from the spectator's point of view currently. The "overpowered" stuff that the whine is all about is just a consequence of a bunch of design flaws that Blizzard is failing to acknowledge. Let's use the medical terms and say the game is sick. What Blizzard is currently doing, is treating its symptoms, while leaving the underlying cause of those symptoms to freely continue spreading plague, while the underlying cause of the symptoms should be dealt with first.
The first and foremost problem (also the one with the longest description here
) was created at the start of LotV, when the starting economy was changed to 12 workers instead of 6. This had massive consequences, since it extremely sped up the early game. The minerals started accumulating faster, which means players could throw down tech/production buildings faster, or use that extra money for more workers. So far so good, we've eliminated the boring downtime in the early game. But here comes the problem: macro mechanics! At the beginning of LotV, macro mechanics were nerfed to compensate for increased starting economy and make people not rely on them so much. Mule trip income was lowered by 20%, larvae generated by injects were lowered by 25% (overall decrease of 14% since hatcheries still produce 3 larvae during the inject cycle) and the chronoboost was changed to be constant, give a smaller boost, and not cost energy. However, at the end of 2017, mothership core was removed because it was bad for the game. To compensate, Blizzard introduced shield batteries, buffed stalker damage (but retained its DPS), and, most important for the point I'm trying to make, buffed chronoboost. As I've said a few sentences ago, with the starting worker count increased to 12, minerals start accumulating faster. Protoss and Zerg can use their macro mechanics to speed up worker production, which obviously results in them being able to spend the excess minerals and also get ahead economically at the same time. Meanwhile, Terran macro mechanic, the mule, doesn't allow Terran to spend money, but it makes Terran mine more instead, to be able to keep up with other races income-wise. That may have worked in the past, as in HotS Zerg droning was limited by the amount of minerals they mined, and the Protoss chronoboost was weaker. Now, the alien races create a bigger worker advantage for themselves, while the nerfed version of the mule is unable to keep up. This creates a large early game advantage for Zerg and Protoss versus Terran, but this is not game breaking. Now, I know most people would be outraged if the mule was buffed, because "herp derp Terran doesn't need workers in the late game". That is why, if this issue was to be looked at (and I by no means think this should definitely be implemented), I would propose to lower the maximum energy on the orbital command. However, this is not the only undesired side effect of the changed starting economy. The second problem, caused by these economy changes, is the change in the timings. This is most notable in the dynamic of PvT. Terran needs the stim upgrade to even be able to move out on the map aside from the opening reaper, because without it, stalkers can just kite marines and marauders for days. In HotS, a Terran opening reaper expand into 2 more barracks would have about a minute long window where his stim was done, blink would still be researching (if Protoss opened with twilight) and the first colossus would just be starting (if Protoss opened with robo). This would force the Protoss to sit back defensively for a bit, allowing Terran to have map control for a short while, getting the first medivacs out, and usually start the 3rd cc in the main base. Once blink/colossus was finished, Protoss could deflect the Terran and take a 3rd base of his own, while continuing to be defensive. In the current state of the game however, the extra income Protoss has early on is invested into a slightly faster natural expansion and faster tech. Combine that with the improved chronoboost, and blink finishes a solid minute before stim. This gives Protoss the initiative on the map, which allows for an extremely greedy 3rd base and double forge plays, without Terran being able to punish the greed. On a side note, the second reason for this is that Terran macro mechanic, mule, is activated only AFTER he starts building additional barracks. What happens next, again, stems from the increased starting economy. Because the resources start accumulating faster, players can spend them to add production buildings and start building more units earlier. However, the vital upgrade times were not lowered to compensate for this, which means, in our TvP example, the Protoss will have a lot more units by the time Terran upgrades like stim finish. Because of that, bio openings are extinct in current state of the game. Again, this isn't a game breaking issue, and I am not advocating for something to be done about that; however, this is one of the factors that makes the LotV so frustrating for Terrans, as the race a) has literally no real aggression options until stim is finished (talking aggression here, not all in, and the opponent has much more units by the time stim finishes compared to HotS), and b) the mule was not only nerfed from HotS, but it also starts its effect much later in the game than for example chronoboost, which is available at the start of the game. This way, Protoss has a huge economical advantage, especially combined with taking the natural expansion faster compared to the HotS builds. Also note that the cc cannot produce SCVs while it is upgrading to an orbital, which means Terran has to skip 2 workers to get to mules, and the Protoss can chronoboost out 3 probes in this time. This are all the consequences of the economy changes at the start of LotV.
The second problem are some specific buffs to both Protoss and Terran that, in my opinion, also contribute a lot to the current state of the game. In november 2016, tanks were changed. They could no longer be picked up by medivacs while in siege mode, got their health increased by 15, lowered the attack speed and increased damage by 5(20 vs armored). In the same patch, the immortal's barrier cooldown was substantially lowered. The warp prism pick up range was introduced much earlier. However, why were these two changes needed? Here comes the second problem: massability of the roaches. At the start of LotV, Terrans could pick up and drop siege tanks when in siege mode. This was extremely unhealthy for the game, but it was the only thing holding back the mass roach ravager attacks in TvZ. The immortal barrier change was effected for the same reason (cannot 100% verify this, as the liquipedia links are broken). Overall, Zerg got heavily nerfed in this patch, and both Terran and Protoss got buffed. However, the massability of roaches and ravagers and the potency of such attacks was untouched, Terran and Protoss just got band-aid fixes to deal with these attacks. However, in long term vision, this patch was not very healthy for the state of the game. Instead of applying band-aid fixes there, Blizzard should have nerfed the potency of mass roach timing attacks, while not reducing the roaches' defensive capabilities. However, their choice of action was easier, because the game was not yet as figured out as it is today, so the changes seemed good at the time. If this issue would to be addressed, my proposal would be: 1) roach cost increased by 25 minerals to make massing them a little harder, 2) ravager supply increased from 3 to 4, morph cost increased by 25 minerals 50 gas (or maybe 75), added massive tag, corrosive bile range (and maybe also damage) decreased a little, bile no longer breaks force fields, health increased from 120 to 175 (theorycrafting here). This would retain roaches defensive capabilities against Protoss all ins, while massing them would be a bit harder. Ravagers would no longer need corrosive bile to break force fields, as they would themselves be massive, albeit more expensive. This could result in a better dynamic, where the Zerg has less ravagers, but has to micro them to break forcefields, which would also make target firing the ravagers more important for the Protoss. Another possibility would be to lower the roach attack range or damage, but I'm afraid this would be too much of a nerf to Zerg's defensive potency against Protoss pushes. Of course, if roaches would be nerfed, the tank damage and health buff should also be reverted, and either the immortal barrier cooldown or the prism pick up range should be nerfed to compensate. Again, this is just my suggestion, which is not perfect, as this issue is extremely complex.
Finally, we've come to the 3rd and the last issue, the lategame units. This has been one of the most agreed on topics in balance discussions, because lategame is seen more and more in LotV, also as a consequence of the economy changes. The problem here is the strength of certain lategame units. What is bad for the game is a) free units in the lategame b) mass air compositions. As is, air compositions are bad for the health of the game. They ignore any terrain, which means they bypass an important tactical aspect of the game, while making it impossible for ground units to deal with certain compositions. For the health of the game, air units should ONLY be used as SUPPORT for the ground forces, not the other way around. It is much more interesting as a spectator to watch for example bio tank viking take on ling bane ultra with a few brood lords, tban it is to watch a PvZ turtlefest of mass spore infestor broodlord. I repeat, every air composition should have a viable counter on the ground. Though it is a pressing issue, Blizzard is acknowledging that something is amiss here so I will not say that this is currently a priority issue. However, I would like to address the strength of proxy tempest rushes. I cannot remember a TvP I've played in the last month or two on cyber forest that the Protoss didn't go cannon rush into proxy tempests. My proposal would be to lower the tempest's anti ground range to 6 and maybe even lower the damage, since their role is to counter massive air units. Their massive range is the reason those rushes are even a thing and it is not healthy for the game.
Everyone is talking about directly buffing Terran and nerfing Protoss. But no one wonders why the game is in such a bad state from the spectator's point of view currently. The "overpowered" stuff that the whine is all about is just a consequence of a bunch of design flaws that Blizzard is failing to acknowledge. Let's use the medical terms and say the game is sick. What Blizzard is currently doing, is treating its symptoms, while leaving the underlying cause of those symptoms to freely continue spreading plague, while the underlying cause of the symptoms should be dealt with first.
The first and foremost problem (also the one with the longest description here
) was created at the start of LotV, when the starting economy was changed to 12 workers instead of 6. This had massive consequences, since it extremely sped up the early game. The minerals started accumulating faster, which means players could throw down tech/production buildings faster, or use that extra money for more workers. So far so good, we've eliminated the boring downtime in the early game. But here comes the problem: macro mechanics! At the beginning of LotV, macro mechanics were nerfed to compensate for increased starting economy and make people not rely on them so much. Mule trip income was lowered by 20%, larvae generated by injects were lowered by 25% (overall decrease of 14% since hatcheries still produce 3 larvae during the inject cycle) and the chronoboost was changed to be constant, give a smaller boost, and not cost energy. However, at the end of 2017, mothership core was removed because it was bad for the game. To compensate, Blizzard introduced shield batteries, buffed stalker damage (but retained its DPS), and, most important for the point I'm trying to make, buffed chronoboost. As I've said a few sentences ago, with the starting worker count increased to 12, minerals start accumulating faster. Protoss and Zerg can use their macro mechanics to speed up worker production, which obviously results in them being able to spend the excess minerals and also get ahead economically at the same time. Meanwhile, Terran macro mechanic, the mule, doesn't allow Terran to spend money, but it makes Terran mine more instead, to be able to keep up with other races income-wise. That may have worked in the past, as in HotS Zerg droning was limited by the amount of minerals they mined, and the Protoss chronoboost was weaker. Now, the alien races create a bigger worker advantage for themselves, while the nerfed version of the mule is unable to keep up. This creates a large early game advantage for Zerg and Protoss versus Terran, but this is not game breaking. Now, I know most people would be outraged if the mule was buffed, because "herp derp Terran doesn't need workers in the late game". That is why, if this issue was to be looked at (and I by no means think this should definitely be implemented), I would propose to lower the maximum energy on the orbital command. However, this is not the only undesired side effect of the changed starting economy. The second problem, caused by these economy changes, is the change in the timings. This is most notable in the dynamic of PvT. Terran needs the stim upgrade to even be able to move out on the map aside from the opening reaper, because without it, stalkers can just kite marines and marauders for days. In HotS, a Terran opening reaper expand into 2 more barracks would have about a minute long window where his stim was done, blink would still be researching (if Protoss opened with twilight) and the first colossus would just be starting (if Protoss opened with robo). This would force the Protoss to sit back defensively for a bit, allowing Terran to have map control for a short while, getting the first medivacs out, and usually start the 3rd cc in the main base. Once blink/colossus was finished, Protoss could deflect the Terran and take a 3rd base of his own, while continuing to be defensive. In the current state of the game however, the extra income Protoss has early on is invested into a slightly faster natural expansion and faster tech. Combine that with the improved chronoboost, and blink finishes a solid minute before stim. This gives Protoss the initiative on the map, which allows for an extremely greedy 3rd base and double forge plays, without Terran being able to punish the greed. On a side note, the second reason for this is that Terran macro mechanic, mule, is activated only AFTER he starts building additional barracks. What happens next, again, stems from the increased starting economy. Because the resources start accumulating faster, players can spend them to add production buildings and start building more units earlier. However, the vital upgrade times were not lowered to compensate for this, which means, in our TvP example, the Protoss will have a lot more units by the time Terran upgrades like stim finish. Because of that, bio openings are extinct in current state of the game. Again, this isn't a game breaking issue, and I am not advocating for something to be done about that; however, this is one of the factors that makes the LotV so frustrating for Terrans, as the race a) has literally no real aggression options until stim is finished (talking aggression here, not all in, and the opponent has much more units by the time stim finishes compared to HotS), and b) the mule was not only nerfed from HotS, but it also starts its effect much later in the game than for example chronoboost, which is available at the start of the game. This way, Protoss has a huge economical advantage, especially combined with taking the natural expansion faster compared to the HotS builds. Also note that the cc cannot produce SCVs while it is upgrading to an orbital, which means Terran has to skip 2 workers to get to mules, and the Protoss can chronoboost out 3 probes in this time. This are all the consequences of the economy changes at the start of LotV.The second problem are some specific buffs to both Protoss and Terran that, in my opinion, also contribute a lot to the current state of the game. In november 2016, tanks were changed. They could no longer be picked up by medivacs while in siege mode, got their health increased by 15, lowered the attack speed and increased damage by 5(20 vs armored). In the same patch, the immortal's barrier cooldown was substantially lowered. The warp prism pick up range was introduced much earlier. However, why were these two changes needed? Here comes the second problem: massability of the roaches. At the start of LotV, Terrans could pick up and drop siege tanks when in siege mode. This was extremely unhealthy for the game, but it was the only thing holding back the mass roach ravager attacks in TvZ. The immortal barrier change was effected for the same reason (cannot 100% verify this, as the liquipedia links are broken). Overall, Zerg got heavily nerfed in this patch, and both Terran and Protoss got buffed. However, the massability of roaches and ravagers and the potency of such attacks was untouched, Terran and Protoss just got band-aid fixes to deal with these attacks. However, in long term vision, this patch was not very healthy for the state of the game. Instead of applying band-aid fixes there, Blizzard should have nerfed the potency of mass roach timing attacks, while not reducing the roaches' defensive capabilities. However, their choice of action was easier, because the game was not yet as figured out as it is today, so the changes seemed good at the time. If this issue would to be addressed, my proposal would be: 1) roach cost increased by 25 minerals to make massing them a little harder, 2) ravager supply increased from 3 to 4, morph cost increased by 25 minerals 50 gas (or maybe 75), added massive tag, corrosive bile range (and maybe also damage) decreased a little, bile no longer breaks force fields, health increased from 120 to 175 (theorycrafting here). This would retain roaches defensive capabilities against Protoss all ins, while massing them would be a bit harder. Ravagers would no longer need corrosive bile to break force fields, as they would themselves be massive, albeit more expensive. This could result in a better dynamic, where the Zerg has less ravagers, but has to micro them to break forcefields, which would also make target firing the ravagers more important for the Protoss. Another possibility would be to lower the roach attack range or damage, but I'm afraid this would be too much of a nerf to Zerg's defensive potency against Protoss pushes. Of course, if roaches would be nerfed, the tank damage and health buff should also be reverted, and either the immortal barrier cooldown or the prism pick up range should be nerfed to compensate. Again, this is just my suggestion, which is not perfect, as this issue is extremely complex.
Finally, we've come to the 3rd and the last issue, the lategame units. This has been one of the most agreed on topics in balance discussions, because lategame is seen more and more in LotV, also as a consequence of the economy changes. The problem here is the strength of certain lategame units. What is bad for the game is a) free units in the lategame b) mass air compositions. As is, air compositions are bad for the health of the game. They ignore any terrain, which means they bypass an important tactical aspect of the game, while making it impossible for ground units to deal with certain compositions. For the health of the game, air units should ONLY be used as SUPPORT for the ground forces, not the other way around. It is much more interesting as a spectator to watch for example bio tank viking take on ling bane ultra with a few brood lords, tban it is to watch a PvZ turtlefest of mass spore infestor broodlord. I repeat, every air composition should have a viable counter on the ground. Though it is a pressing issue, Blizzard is acknowledging that something is amiss here so I will not say that this is currently a priority issue. However, I would like to address the strength of proxy tempest rushes. I cannot remember a TvP I've played in the last month or two on cyber forest that the Protoss didn't go cannon rush into proxy tempests. My proposal would be to lower the tempest's anti ground range to 6 and maybe even lower the damage, since their role is to counter massive air units. Their massive range is the reason those rushes are even a thing and it is not healthy for the game.
I agree with most of you analysis of why the game is in the state its in, on the other hand I think that the fundamental things like macro mechanics could be FINE as long as other things are tweeked. Economies of players don't have to have parity as long as the lower econ more defensive race has stronger, more cost efficient units and better tech options to respond to the bigger economy of their opponent. Whats messed up in my opinion right now in tvp is that the lower econ race (terran) also has the worse scaling tech and less efficient army. The only time this is not true is right as their 2 base allin timing hits, this is the only time currently that terrans army is actually appropriately strong for how behind they are in other ways in the game just due to the nature of the match up.
If you look at brood war this dynamic is correct in all match ups, tvp terran has better long term army: mech but worse map control and has to fight to split the map 1:1 with toss. Toss has better map control, can take bases easier but their army scales worse. This makes sense. ZVP, zerg has better economy, takes more bases but their army scales worse often they take 3:1 trades vs gate+templar armies but its fine because they can have the economy to take that kind of hit. TVZ zerg gets more bases but once terran has a scary army.
Right now whats messed up in sc2 is that its backwards in alot of cases: ZVP, zerg gets more economy, more map control, and better late game. TVP protoss gets more economy more map control and better late game. It often times feels like one race is not compensated in a reasonable way in terms of strength for the other things they are behind in and instead is only compensated with 1 strong allin timing that they have to hit to make the matchup winable for them. This can be "ballanced" in the sense that both races can win but it feels extremely unfair and unfun because options are so limited, and the interactions in these match ups are extremely binary, protoss kills zerg with an allin or losses, terran kills protoss with an allin or losses. Its just not a good dynamic. Im ok with races power scaling differently, but it would be good if they tweeked powerscaleing to promote less allins and more mid game interactions. Alot of this can be done by making the race that has less econ and map control scale better so that they have incentive to stay in the game, and also incentive to not allin evrey single game. once you get to this spot than allins should be scaled back to make games less binary.
I would say the only match up were things are not totally out of whack is tvz, terran gets map control and a strong economy because zerg scales harder early on, but the dynamic actualy flips late game in that terran scales even more than zerg but gets less economy but better scaling. This is a very nice dynamic because both players never have to feel like defeat is inevitable in an otherwise even game just due to poor late game balance.
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