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MrFreeman
207 Posts
The WP change is really smart, the cost stings a bit, but it's not a huge deal, pickup range needed to be nerfed and it was really the mass of zealots appearing out of nowhere and wreaking havoc that was the bad thing, so removing the bonus from charge fixes that while not affecting other strategies, plus I get better carriers. Don't like the recall nerf though. Overall, these are changes for the better  . | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26247 Posts
On July 17 2019 07:17 Nakajin wrote: These p change seems more reasonable, wonder how it will go. As for the infestor, I honestly think should just remove it and balance zerg around the viper, maybe buff spores even, IDK but the units just seems impossible to get right, it ocsilate between useless and match up breaking + it makes for shitty games. The balance team can do miracle (never thought I see a nicelly balanced raven) but maybe it's time to start in new on this one I’d worry of a few things if we’re to go down this rabbithole, although I do agree on the infestor. Without the infestor filling its current niche BCs get pretty insane to deal with. Maybe airtoss as well. The infestor is a bit like the prism to me, in isolation it’s way too bloody good, equally the race kind of needs it to stay competitive without sweeping changes elsewhere. Outside of practicalities such as actually getting them and in good numbers BCs are a pretty broken unit in their current state. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On July 17 2019 04:05 Vindicare605 wrote: Overall these look much better than the original group, although I'm personally surprised that Blizz is still going through with the Stim buff. I guess in testing it wasn't as radical of a change as I originally had thought. The Infestor bug intrigues me though. If Infested Terrans really were ignoring armor before, that would explain why they were so damn strong vs Carriers. Since that's going in as a hotfix we'll get to see right away if Infested Terrans need further nerfing. infestor bug is something should be fixed right now! it should ve been fixed ever since the day one random reddit dude found it out! not until the balance patch company like riot or valve fixes bugs in thier MOBA game in no time but in the mean time,the balance team is chilling with dem pro players s replays instead this is unacceptable | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26247 Posts
On July 17 2019 07:30 Lexender wrote: Where do this thinking that terran can just suicide units come from? Terran is most likely to dive in for kills because its the race that depends the most on being aggressive and slowing the enemy down but that doesn't means that terran can just throw units while other races (specially P) are so hurt for every single one. They are very equivalent, losing units hurts every race, a lib cost the same as a oracle and thinking that terran can just throw them is just stupid. Specifically late game liberators, should have clarified that. Units have different value and importance depending on the phase of the game and how they fit in. Losing your initial oracles is terrible because generally you don’t want to rebuild them, so you want max utility out of them and keep them alive as they’re versatile units. herO losing some backstab prisms, not ideal but not a disaster either. Terrans run hellions into mineral lines and do as much damage as they can to drones before getting killed, it’s often worth it as a play but a suicide run nonetheless no? | ||
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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washikie
United States752 Posts
I don’t think the prism cost increase on the other hand is big enough to matter, the unit is still just to risk free compare the cost of loosing the prism to the cost of loosing 2 medivacs both deliver the same number of units to your base but one costs 1000/200 if both medivacs are lost the other costs 200 minerals, a 50 mineral increase is a drop in the pond. I do think the zealot nerf is a good idea. Bringing down down the power of zealots will reduce the strength of ridicules builds like the Margery in zvp and the strength of fast upgrades and a fast third into mass gateway in Pvt, both of which are very overtuned and make toss feel very oppressive both at the lower levels of play like masters and the pro level. It would also help make the mass prism warping less oppressive since they no longer unleash massive burst damage the instant they finish. | ||
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alexanderzero
United States659 Posts
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ForsakenSC2
8 Posts
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On July 17 2019 08:52 alexanderzero wrote: It's strange I've seen a lot of complaints about cannon rushes lately in every place (tl.net, reddit, and b.net forums). I assume this is f2p people that have never played Starcraft before. Cannon rushes are as old as time itself. I mean they are one of those builds that’s low exicution but high reward so they are going to be complained about by new players till the end of time. Hell I still see them and lose to them occasionally in masters if my follow up reaction lines up badly with theirs | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On July 17 2019 08:58 ForsakenSC2 wrote: Wasn't the whole point of adding dmg to the initial charge to have chargelots be used again? Looks like it's going to be back to phoenix adept in PVT. I think the dmg nerf is too much without a competent buff on something else. Zerg has a lot of scouting potential as is, and now making overlord speed cheaper will make their all ins stronger as keeping highground vision will be pretty easy and for protoss back into stargate openers every game again. Infestor is not addressed aside from fixing a bug that was supposed to be fixed back in 2017? I think feedback nerf needs to seriously be reconsidered and reverted. Im not sure it’s possible without breaking tvz but I would really like to see the overall power level of both Protoss and Zerg late game air+caster deathballs scaled down so that we would see more midgame interactions. I would much rather see hydra lurker vs stalker disruptor for instance than skytoss vs infestor broodlord. Sc2s lategame is just not that fun in my opinion after playing 10k games of it many in masters. But I’m not sure how this ever gets fixed. Sc2 has always been at its best when the game is about midgame armies, muta ling bane,roach ravager, 4m, marine tank,blink stalker collosi, crazy Protoss bullshit ect. It just slows down a lot late game into these long turtles games. I can respect players like TY, Serral, ect that are good at playing these situations out but from a viewer perspective I would much prefer a long drawn out midgame in literally evrey mu in the game. | ||
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On July 17 2019 09:06 washikie wrote: Im not sure it’s possible without breaking tvz but I would really like to see the overall power level of both Protoss and Zerg late game air+caster deathballs scaled down so that we would see more midgame interactions. I would much rather see hydra lurker vs stalker disruptor for instance than skytoss vs infestor broodlord. Sc2s lategame is just not that fun in my opinion after playing 10k games of it many in masters. But I’m not sure how this ever gets fixed. Sc2 has always been at its best when the game is about midgame armies, muta ling bane,roach ravager, 4m, marine tank,blink stalker collosi, crazy Protoss bullshit ect. It just slows down a lot late game into these long turtles games. I can respect players like TY, Serral, ect that are good at playing these situations out but from a viewer perspective I would much prefer a long drawn out midgame in literally evrey mu in the game. I've thought for ages that they should increase the supply of massive air units to nerf air deathballs, 6 supply to 8. I agree it's the worst part of sc2, by far. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26247 Posts
On July 17 2019 09:06 washikie wrote: Im not sure it’s possible without breaking tvz but I would really like to see the overall power level of both Protoss and Zerg late game air+caster deathballs scaled down so that we would see more midgame interactions. I would much rather see hydra lurker vs stalker disruptor for instance than skytoss vs infestor broodlord. Sc2s lategame is just not that fun in my opinion after playing 10k games of it many in masters. But I’m not sure how this ever gets fixed. Sc2 has always been at its best when the game is about midgame armies, muta ling bane,roach ravager, 4m, marine tank,blink stalker collosi, crazy Protoss bullshit ect. It just slows down a lot late game into these long turtles games. I can respect players like TY, Serral, ect that are good at playing these situations out but from a viewer perspective I would much prefer a long drawn out midgame in literally evrey mu in the game. Air deathballs being less of a factor I would absolutely love, as you say kind of hard to do though. In general I like air units to be harass/skirmish kind of units, their ability to circumvent terrain considerations being balanced by them not being able to fight straight into things. Plus the way airballs can overlap and clump in a way ground units don’t both looks stupid, also makes it visually difficult to target fire at times as well | ||
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On July 17 2019 07:38 Wombat_NI wrote: I’d worry of a few things if we’re to go down this rabbithole, although I do agree on the infestor. Without the infestor filling its current niche BCs get pretty insane to deal with. Maybe airtoss as well. The infestor is a bit like the prism to me, in isolation it’s way too bloody good, equally the race kind of needs it to stay competitive without sweeping changes elsewhere. Outside of practicalities such as actually getting them and in good numbers BCs are a pretty broken unit in their current state. As a terran player I would tend to agree about bcs, I think that they are not necessarily overpowered since getting them in large and abusive numbers before dieing is prity hard. But conversely I don't think infinite value trading units are good for the game, swarmhosts are bad for the game, infestors are bad for the game, old ravens were bad for the game, bcs are bad for the game. Units that trade nothing for something consistently, and reliably are bad for the game in general. I'm more ok with vipers, ghosts, and HTS because all these units have some inherent and appropriate risk involved that makes them less oppressive, vipers can abduct but thier is counterplay, ghosts can snipe but their is counter play, hts can feedback and storm but their is counter play. the only counterplay to mass bcs if Terran got their on a good economy is infestors for zerg, ravens for terran and nothing for protoss, and even than infestors and ravens dont deal with them all that well if they reach critical mass. Other than that the counter play is to kill them if they try this transition, currently that is very possible in all match ups but if balance ever tilts terran's way I think it will be broodlord infestor levels of overpowered Currently Terran lean alot on the strength of bcs in late game tvp so I would definitely not encourage nerfing them without addressing other late game imbalance, just like I would not encourage nerfing toss without addressing infestors. But I think long term having teleport and a sniping spell on an extremely tanky flying unit is just not a good combination for engaging and healthy gameplay. | ||
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ForsakenSC2
8 Posts
On July 17 2019 09:06 washikie wrote: Im not sure it’s possible without breaking tvz but I would really like to see the overall power level of both Protoss and Zerg late game air+caster deathballs scaled down so that we would see more midgame interactions. I would much rather see hydra lurker vs stalker disruptor for instance than skytoss vs infestor broodlord. Sc2s lategame is just not that fun in my opinion after playing 10k games of it many in masters. But I’m not sure how this ever gets fixed. Sc2 has always been at its best when the game is about midgame armies, muta ling bane,roach ravager, 4m, marine tank,blink stalker collosi, crazy Protoss bullshit ect. It just slows down a lot late game into these long turtles games. I can respect players like TY, Serral, ect that are good at playing these situations out but from a viewer perspective I would much prefer a long drawn out midgame in literally evrey mu in the game. I totally agree with the viewer perspective portion. I do not enjoy watching lategame pvz when it happens either. It's just a long drawn out game and we all know how it's going to end. I'm not sure how they can balance it. Throughout all of sc2 something from either race (late game wise) that has been either very strong or nerfed and then weak compared to the other races. I think though that reverting feedback and maybe considering tempest range to be increased vs ground to 9, to at least compliment NP. But without testing I wouldn't know how this would affect pvt. Also with the chargelot nerf for PvT, considering upgrade time was nerfed and now chargelots being nerfed, stimpack being buffed, I'm honestly scared for early game pushes. Strong as they are already, I feel it's going to be even tougher to hold. I just think based off a high protoss count in Super Tournament and a season of GSL, it's a little crazy for all these nerfs based off a small sample size. That's typical Blizzard though, rush on changes that either no one asked for or targeting certain things without letting things settle. | ||
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batatm
Israel116 Posts
On July 17 2019 05:57 Ryu3600 wrote: Vikings are armored units that do not start with 1 armor, Oracles are armored units that do not start with 1 armor either zealots are light unit yet start with 1 armor. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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RandomPlayer416
84 Posts
1. Strategies revolving around warp prism micro usually involve getting the upgrade anyways. 2. The pick up range is the MAIN ISSUE with the warp prism being an unfair unit. 3. Why increase the minerals?? Why doesn't this unit cost at least some gas? I just played 3 games....2 were failed cannon rushes that I easily defended and the other i got 12 pooled and shut the game off. There has to be some kind of way to discourage this style of play. These minor adjustments might change strategies at the highest level, but people are just gonna do their yolo all in builds on the ladder all day long. This game is just not fun to play at any level anymore. Its really unfortunate. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16118 Posts
On July 17 2019 07:48 seemsgood wrote: infestor bug is something should be fixed right now! it should ve been fixed ever since the day one random reddit dude found it out! not until the balance patch company like riot or valve fixes bugs in thier MOBA game in no time but in the mean time,the balance team is chilling with dem pro players s replays instead this is unacceptable They said in the post they'd be rolling it out in a hotfix. When that hotfix is I'm not sure, but it will be before the patch. If we're lucky it will be this week. | ||
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