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On July 17 2019 04:44 Z3nith wrote:
Some of the changes are good and this will definitely be good for PvT but PvZ is going to be even more of a shitshow than it already is. I understand the infestor is a hard unit to balance but the fact is it absolutely destroys any chance of Protoss winning in the late game.
If I had someone to take my bet, I'd wager we'll see a last minute Infested Terran nerf thrown in with these changes when they actually go live.
The Infestor is an obvious problem in late game PvZ right now, and I'm confident that the Carrier buff won't be enough to change that.
It's a very obvious problem, made even more apparent to the community because of the lingering legacy of WoL's Infestor/Broodlord era.
I don't think Blizz will let this current meta go on for that much longer. The outrage is gonna just get worse and worse. Even Terrans are agreeing with Protoss players (and Terrans HATE Protoss players) that late game PvZ is bullshit. It'll get adjusted, it's more a matter of when than if.
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I don't understand why they want to nerf Protoss so hard. They overperformed in 2 tournaments this year but now it seems like the other races have already adapted with Dark winning GSL and WCS being a ZvZ finals.
If this goes through Protoss will be very weak at the Pro level.
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I like these changes even more than the old 
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hmm these won't put a halt to the massing of infestors I think and what problem is the stim buff solving exactly?
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If they're going to go through with some of these changes, then they need to reconsider the feedback nerf. Maybe test and see if there's a middle ground between where it is now and where it was. Something that will better handle infestors while not making feedback too good against medivacs or ghosts. Either that or nerf infestor health. There needs to be some kind of way for protoss to respond to mass infestors. There currently isn't one really.
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On July 17 2019 04:15 MockHamill wrote:
The changes are reasonable and I think better compared the first version. What is missing is:
1. Forge requires gateway in order to discourage cannon rushing.
2. Disruptor range decreased by 1 in order to make the relationship between tanks and disruptors more even.
3. Nydus worm cost changed to 100/75 so that spamming 4-5 worms in your opponents base actually have a drawback.
4. Neural parasite cost changed to 150 energy to better reflect how strong this ability is.
man, you play terran. why are you losing to cannon rushes??
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On July 17 2019 05:13 Penev wrote:
hmm these won't put a halt to the massing of infestors I think and what problem is the stim buff solving exactly?
It's supposed to help Terrans punish Protoss fast thirds without having to go all in, which has been a major issue in the match up for a while now.
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Wow I'm really happy the terran changes are going through that will really be good for the game I think. And makes me happy about how I'm just about to start playing again =P Good timing patch wise.
As for the WP changes, I don't know which change is better I think either is fine as long as it gets nerfed, because it NEEDS to get nerfed in its current state. Personally I liked the previous change better but I also believed that change would have to come with buffs in other areas for protoss to be balanced. This wp change could actually be made today without really effecting the balance too bad (I think) BUT this wp change in conjuction with charge nerf to zealots?
Come on, I hate protoss and even I feel sorry for them, and also sorry for the PvZs I watch in the future if this goes through. I mean Blizz is on the right track chargelots are too powerful it is true but they cannot just nerf them and the WP without buffing something else. Protoss right now have a few overpowered units that keeps them competitive, yes the overpowered units need to be adjusted somehow but if you straight up nerf them without buffing some other area protoss is charred. I thought everyone was exaggerating last update about "patching protoss out of the game" but these changes feels closer to that to me than the previous update.
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On July 17 2019 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 05:13 Penev wrote:
hmm these won't put a halt to the massing of infestors I think and what problem is the stim buff solving exactly? It's supposed to help Terrans punish Protoss fast thirds without having to go all in, which has been a major issue in the match up for a while now.
it sounds like quite the dangerous buff to me
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On July 17 2019 05:19 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 05:15 Vindicare605 wrote:On July 17 2019 05:13 Penev wrote:
hmm these won't put a halt to the massing of infestors I think and what problem is the stim buff solving exactly? It's supposed to help Terrans punish Protoss fast thirds without having to go all in, which has been a major issue in the match up for a while now. it sounds like quite the dangerous buff to me
That's what I said! I'm surprised they're still going through with it, but I guess in testing it isn't as bad as I was expecting.
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Zergs win every major tournament and they want to nerf toss lol
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On July 17 2019 04:47 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 04:44 Z3nith wrote:
Some of the changes are good and this will definitely be good for PvT but PvZ is going to be even more of a shitshow than it already is. I understand the infestor is a hard unit to balance but the fact is it absolutely destroys any chance of Protoss winning in the late game. If I had someone to take my bet, I'd wager we'll see a last minute Infested Terran nerf thrown in with these changes when they actually go live. The Infestor is an obvious problem in late game PvZ right now, and I'm confident that the Carrier buff won't be enough to change that. It's a very obvious problem, made even more apparent to the community because of the lingering legacy of WoL's Infestor/Broodlord era. I don't think Blizz will let this current meta go on for that much longer. The outrage is gonna just get worse and worse. Even Terrans are agreeing with Protoss players (and Terrans HATE Protoss players) that late game PvZ is bullshit. It'll get adjusted, it's more a matter of when than if.
How can you be sure that bugfixed infestors will still be too strong? I fear TvZ could shift too much in favor of Terran with further nerfs.
This second wave of changes seems better(retaining stim buffs? Hmm); not sure if increasing the cost of Warp Prism is needed and that charge nerf is dubious at best.
Whiners have been complaining so much that Blizzard now wants to nerf Protoss to the ground...
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On July 17 2019 05:16 Shuffleblade wrote:
Wow I'm really happy the terran changes are going through that will really be good for the game I think. And makes me happy about how I'm just about to start playing again =P Good timing patch wise.
As for the WP changes, I don't know which change is better I think either is fine as long as it gets nerfed, because it NEEDS to get nerfed in its current state. Personally I liked the previous change better but I also believed that change would have to come with buffs in other areas for protoss to be balanced. This wp change could actually be made today without really effecting the balance too bad (I think) BUT this wp change in conjuction with charge nerf to zealots?
Come on, I hate protoss and even I feel sorry for them, and also sorry for the PvZs I watch in the future if this goes through. I mean Blizz is on the right track chargelots are too powerful it is true but they cannot just nerf them and the WP without buffing something else. Protoss right now have a few overpowered units that keeps them competitive, yes the overpowered units need to be adjusted somehow but if you straight up nerf them without buffing some other area protoss is charred. I thought everyone was exaggerating last update about "patching protoss out of the game" but these changes feels closer to that to me than the previous update.
100% agree. This does absolutely nothing to address late game pvz....itr actually tilts the matchup even more so in Zerg favor. I get the need for a TvP change but in many cases the only reason protoss win is because of the WP which requires a great deal of skill and apm to use as they do. Average gold league protoss barely even knows a prism exists. If we look at tournament results basically every major tournament has been won by a Zerg in 2019 and I do not see how these changes do anything but further strengthen the foothold on the Zerg dominance in 2019.
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Blizzard is lagging behind events as per usual also I called the ovie speed cost reduction!
yeah yeah I'm sure I wasn't the only one and I'm sure it was bound to happen etc but I still called it damn you suckers (;
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On July 17 2019 05:15 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 04:15 MockHamill wrote:
The changes are reasonable and I think better compared the first version. What is missing is:
1. Forge requires gateway in order to discourage cannon rushing.
2. Disruptor range decreased by 1 in order to make the relationship between tanks and disruptors more even.
3. Nydus worm cost changed to 100/75 so that spamming 4-5 worms in your opponents base actually have a drawback.
4. Neural parasite cost changed to 150 energy to better reflect how strong this ability is. man, you play terran. why are you losing to cannon rushes??
I do not I just consider cannon rushing a joke, it should not even be in the game. It is also close to broken in PvP.
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On July 17 2019 05:28 ImSquanchnHere wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 05:16 Shuffleblade wrote:
Wow I'm really happy the terran changes are going through that will really be good for the game I think. And makes me happy about how I'm just about to start playing again =P Good timing patch wise.
As for the WP changes, I don't know which change is better I think either is fine as long as it gets nerfed, because it NEEDS to get nerfed in its current state. Personally I liked the previous change better but I also believed that change would have to come with buffs in other areas for protoss to be balanced. This wp change could actually be made today without really effecting the balance too bad (I think) BUT this wp change in conjuction with charge nerf to zealots?
Come on, I hate protoss and even I feel sorry for them, and also sorry for the PvZs I watch in the future if this goes through. I mean Blizz is on the right track chargelots are too powerful it is true but they cannot just nerf them and the WP without buffing something else. Protoss right now have a few overpowered units that keeps them competitive, yes the overpowered units need to be adjusted somehow but if you straight up nerf them without buffing some other area protoss is charred. I thought everyone was exaggerating last update about "patching protoss out of the game" but these changes feels closer to that to me than the previous update. in many cases the only reason protoss win is because of the WP which requires a great deal of skill and apm to use as they do
o rly? wanna see some VODs of herO derp-moving warp prism after warp prism into TY's turrets? he loses 3 warp prisms in a row. 4th attempt, the warp prism gets in and herO wins the game. how about Parting haphazardly flying a warp prism full of archons over Special's marines in GSL group A? the former demonstrates a complete lack of respect. the latter demonstrates what is lacking in the decision-making of a code S level protoss. I don't even watch that many pro games nowadays and I can think of several examples. now compare that to Keen's genuinely great medivac harass vs Creator in group F and maybe you'll see where the discrepancy lies. toss players will just need to step up their game
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On July 17 2019 05:40 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 05:15 SHODAN wrote:On July 17 2019 04:15 MockHamill wrote:
The changes are reasonable and I think better compared the first version. What is missing is:
1. Forge requires gateway in order to discourage cannon rushing.
2. Disruptor range decreased by 1 in order to make the relationship between tanks and disruptors more even.
3. Nydus worm cost changed to 100/75 so that spamming 4-5 worms in your opponents base actually have a drawback.
4. Neural parasite cost changed to 150 energy to better reflect how strong this ability is. man, you play terran. why are you losing to cannon rushes?? I do not I just consider cannon rushing a joke, it should not even be in the game. It is also close to broken in PvP.
Why shouldn't it? It's just as viable a strategy as any other that perfectly embodies the high risk high reward of cheesy play.
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On July 17 2019 05:40 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2019 05:15 SHODAN wrote:On July 17 2019 04:15 MockHamill wrote:
The changes are reasonable and I think better compared the first version. What is missing is:
1. Forge requires gateway in order to discourage cannon rushing.
2. Disruptor range decreased by 1 in order to make the relationship between tanks and disruptors more even.
3. Nydus worm cost changed to 100/75 so that spamming 4-5 worms in your opponents base actually have a drawback.
4. Neural parasite cost changed to 150 energy to better reflect how strong this ability is. man, you play terran. why are you losing to cannon rushes?? I do not I just consider cannon rushing a joke, it should not even be in the game. It is also close to broken in PvP.
what's your stake in this then? you don't want those free ladder points? cannon rusher is like a 4th race in the game. I much prefer it over normal TvP
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I really don't get it. We had an overweight of P in RO8 in the GSL super tournament but in the bigger picture P hasn't won sh*t of the premier tournaments in both 2018 and 2019. And yet, all Blizz can focus on is rather big nerfs to P and buffs to the other races.
There was a game earlier today on Stats' stream that displayed just how overpowered and completely un-engageable mass infestors are right now - how can this not be the main issue in terms of balance right now?
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Vikings are armored units that do not start with 1 armor, Oracles are armored units that do not start with 1 armor either
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EPT
