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Training schedule for a new player. Help! - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 04:51:59
May 11 2019 04:35 GMT
#21
On May 11 2019 11:13 hyperion82 wrote:
Thank you guys for your help!

nanaoei that is very important information, thank you I really need that. Btw, I main Terran (as all new players I believe do), for alt I play mostly Zerg than Protoss, and Random, all in Silver 2..the reason I already started to alt the other 2 races this early, other than just trying them out, is so I can learn the cons and pros of each race so I know what to look for while maining the Terran race, but I do enjoy Zerg and Protoss as much, and I believe I will enjoy them much more in the future when I will start playing much more seriously with them.

My opening, is 1-1-1, after that it always depends on my opponent I will add 2 more rax for 3-1-1 or 2 factories 1-3-1...but I usually go bio 3-1-1...I never go Sky, no need... I believe I need to master my macro first in order for my economy to support the expensive Sky...and/or Mech.. so I prefer Bio atm which is quite effective at all times.....for Zerg I play Roach/Hydras, nothing else above it, probably just to decisively end the game I would make 7-8 BroodLords along with my Roach/Hydra army....for Protoss I haven't decided yet.

I am not afraid to switch tech when I need to. When my income is high and I need to spend a lot while in the end game if it takes long, I'll probably switch from Bio and pop 10-15 more factories and go Hellbat/Thors :D

Most of my games here in Silver, are cheeses. Like 9 out of 10 games the opponent will cheese - probably they want to get higher up the ladder quickly like this. I do not cheese, I m trying learn the game normaly, because I do not believe cheeses are so effective in high level play against more experienced palyers...and I do not want to cheese otherwise I will not learn how to play my main race and try different approaches. But 9 out of 10 these games while countering the cheese, will get me off my original build order....fortunately these games end quickly.

I watch all of my replays, win or loss..I watch them open map "everyone", from my point of view, and from the opponent's point of view. I analyze them, and I do spot mistakes even in my winning ones, and I make sure I don't do them on my next game.


okay!
i'll stop you at the moment right before you say 3-1-1. first of all, it's nice that you know what you're doing with your production to be able to say those numbers.
in standard and low league plays (i've played many of these players over the years who stemmed over to 2v2 divisions) i know that having more barracks and more units feels much better. opponents tend to attack with everything they've got.
it's good to adjust and secure a clear advantage.
i'll set that aside for a second though.

if you want to learn proper play, you never really have to deviate from 1-1-1. from that build, you:
- start walling natural with depots
- 3rd CC as part of wall
- add 2 rax
- add 2 engi around 5:00 i'll say, give or take. we'll keep it simple.
that should be your goal. note the most important bit if that ordering is the 3rd CC is before the 2 additional rax.
i won't go into too much detail but this is the difference between capping out on workers at 8 minutes vs. 7 minutes.
being under pressure vs placing pressure and taking it off yourself.
if you're getting cheesed, 2 rax before 3rd CC, or make banshees or a early bunker. but the idea remains, the 3rd CC is a top priority in all cases.

watch one replay of another player doing this and mark down their timings. these are the things you aim for if you have no other goals.
- at what time do they cap out workers on all 3 bases? what's their supply count at this point?
- when does stim, +1/+1 finish? (i'll give you a hint, usually at the same time).
- nitty gritty details like, "how long can i stay on the map before zergling speed?" are things you can solve by booting up an AI game and testing once. a 2 base zerg plants a pool at ~17/18 supply with gas. the pool finishes at 2:10ish, zergling speed takes about 1:20. therefore, you pull your units back to safety before 3:30 when facing a hatch-gas-pool zerg.
you get the idea. these are the things you strive for if you want to improve notably quickly.

for the rest of your post, you're doing the thing about talking about the games too much. i understand where you're coming from and that i sound dismissive.
this is coming from a place where i believe after 10+ years of starcraft that practicing basics converts into better freestyle play.
there are people who freestyle from the very beginning and have success. i'll put that out there, but nobody can truthfully agree that freestyle is more consistent than being structured and methodical.
you priority #1 at improving the fastest way you can, is being able to nail all goals, which means you are able to play exactly how you want. like being able to move however you want as an athlete.
if you can't fully take advantage of being untouched in the first 7 minutes of the game, that has a cascading effect for how you can take advantage of any macro situation in the game.

so i'd make it one of your longterm goals to be able to do a 1-1-1 -> 3-1-1 -> 5-1-1 with upgrades rolling. (stim, +1, combat shields).
2 tanks, fully saturated on workers (63. 16 each mineral field = 48, remaining 15 comes from 5 gas x 3 workers ea.) by 7:30 if not better.
that's the goal. it's to not miss on one of those details. when you have tanks and combat shields, you can move out and attack with all you've got.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 10:30:28
May 11 2019 10:27 GMT
#22
On May 11 2019 00:27 Orlok wrote:
For me, when I first did it, since I also had no previous RTS experience, I took baby steps.
First, I learnt 1 base cheese and builds and practiced that to around silver.
From silver, I learnt 2 base builds and practiced off the back of those, mixing them with 1 base all ins as well.
From gold, I tried macro, and I got hammered at first so many times, but managed to slowly but surely get a feel for it, and it was from this point I really looked at pro builds and how to use them macro wise.


This. Pick things to practice/learn/fix one thing at a time. Everyone seems to encourage people to macro-bot their way to diamond, but honestly there is a lot of knowledge/skills to learn on the way. That being said, macro is huge.

If you need to practice a complicated thing (even a build is a complicated), break it down until the parts are simple to you, then practice those.

Mass games will not help you improve fundementally, and too much can even harm your development by promoting an autopilot mindset. Practice and learning RTS knowledge is a skill in itself, after you do it a while, you will wonder why you ever used to just pure mass games.

hyperion82
Profile Joined May 2019
5 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 13:43:35
May 11 2019 12:35 GMT
#23
Thank you nanaoei and Chronopolis,

nanaoei, you are right, my mind is mostly going into freestyle play..I got so much info in my head since I started playing, and I get confused myself while playing.. I tried to learn too fast while I still have gaps in my beginner basics..so I need to take some steps back, delete everything I know, and start from the basics and fill those gaps. See, the advice and info you shared to me, I cannot find it anywhere, not in streams/casts, not in beginner guides, no where... No one pointed me to the right direction. And I understand everything what you are saying, and I understand the numbers you are saying on both of your posts. So I will make it my goal to follow your advice to the line, and reach those goals you told me.

Chronopolis, yes, it seems that mass games didn't help me much, they mostly got me confused and tired, and low morale sicne half of those ton games were loses.. Since I started this thread, I switched into play 2-3 ranked games per day with big breaks in between, and spend sometime practicing in custom games or analyzing my replays...my mind is more clear than playing 14 hours straight.. and I can say I see there is a lot of improvement.

Washikie, funny to say I tried what you said, marines without upgrades, focus 100% on macro, create great economy..I tried in unranked, 8-0 so far. It's funny because goign 100% macro, it seems I have infinite resources and I can make infinite units (marines). And I never cared about any fights, I just "A" attacked from possible expansions all the way to the opponent's natural and main...I never looked at any fights..Funny to see how every opponent was destroyed running around trying to Micro the battle, and I didn't care, I was back with my SCVs creating new expansions and barracks..The power of macro! And I reached my 70 worker goal in 10 minutes.... but in 8!! and it can be better!
Doominator10
Profile Joined August 2012
United States515 Posts
May 17 2019 09:06 GMT
#24
Hey fam, been watching a ton of tournaments but just started playing again after what may be years. For conversation’s sake, how would y’all apply the advice in this thread for a Zerg player? My situation is a bit different since I’m already at a diamond level and peaked at masters at the start of lotv , just... rusty.
Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies
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