• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:50
CEST 12:50
KST 19:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes89BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Too Many LANs? Tournament Ov…
TrAiDoS
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1841 users

Training schedule for a new player. Help! - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 04:51:59
May 11 2019 04:35 GMT
#21
On May 11 2019 11:13 hyperion82 wrote:
Thank you guys for your help!

nanaoei that is very important information, thank you I really need that. Btw, I main Terran (as all new players I believe do), for alt I play mostly Zerg than Protoss, and Random, all in Silver 2..the reason I already started to alt the other 2 races this early, other than just trying them out, is so I can learn the cons and pros of each race so I know what to look for while maining the Terran race, but I do enjoy Zerg and Protoss as much, and I believe I will enjoy them much more in the future when I will start playing much more seriously with them.

My opening, is 1-1-1, after that it always depends on my opponent I will add 2 more rax for 3-1-1 or 2 factories 1-3-1...but I usually go bio 3-1-1...I never go Sky, no need... I believe I need to master my macro first in order for my economy to support the expensive Sky...and/or Mech.. so I prefer Bio atm which is quite effective at all times.....for Zerg I play Roach/Hydras, nothing else above it, probably just to decisively end the game I would make 7-8 BroodLords along with my Roach/Hydra army....for Protoss I haven't decided yet.

I am not afraid to switch tech when I need to. When my income is high and I need to spend a lot while in the end game if it takes long, I'll probably switch from Bio and pop 10-15 more factories and go Hellbat/Thors :D

Most of my games here in Silver, are cheeses. Like 9 out of 10 games the opponent will cheese - probably they want to get higher up the ladder quickly like this. I do not cheese, I m trying learn the game normaly, because I do not believe cheeses are so effective in high level play against more experienced palyers...and I do not want to cheese otherwise I will not learn how to play my main race and try different approaches. But 9 out of 10 these games while countering the cheese, will get me off my original build order....fortunately these games end quickly.

I watch all of my replays, win or loss..I watch them open map "everyone", from my point of view, and from the opponent's point of view. I analyze them, and I do spot mistakes even in my winning ones, and I make sure I don't do them on my next game.


okay!
i'll stop you at the moment right before you say 3-1-1. first of all, it's nice that you know what you're doing with your production to be able to say those numbers.
in standard and low league plays (i've played many of these players over the years who stemmed over to 2v2 divisions) i know that having more barracks and more units feels much better. opponents tend to attack with everything they've got.
it's good to adjust and secure a clear advantage.
i'll set that aside for a second though.

if you want to learn proper play, you never really have to deviate from 1-1-1. from that build, you:
- start walling natural with depots
- 3rd CC as part of wall
- add 2 rax
- add 2 engi around 5:00 i'll say, give or take. we'll keep it simple.
that should be your goal. note the most important bit if that ordering is the 3rd CC is before the 2 additional rax.
i won't go into too much detail but this is the difference between capping out on workers at 8 minutes vs. 7 minutes.
being under pressure vs placing pressure and taking it off yourself.
if you're getting cheesed, 2 rax before 3rd CC, or make banshees or a early bunker. but the idea remains, the 3rd CC is a top priority in all cases.

watch one replay of another player doing this and mark down their timings. these are the things you aim for if you have no other goals.
- at what time do they cap out workers on all 3 bases? what's their supply count at this point?
- when does stim, +1/+1 finish? (i'll give you a hint, usually at the same time).
- nitty gritty details like, "how long can i stay on the map before zergling speed?" are things you can solve by booting up an AI game and testing once. a 2 base zerg plants a pool at ~17/18 supply with gas. the pool finishes at 2:10ish, zergling speed takes about 1:20. therefore, you pull your units back to safety before 3:30 when facing a hatch-gas-pool zerg.
you get the idea. these are the things you strive for if you want to improve notably quickly.

for the rest of your post, you're doing the thing about talking about the games too much. i understand where you're coming from and that i sound dismissive.
this is coming from a place where i believe after 10+ years of starcraft that practicing basics converts into better freestyle play.
there are people who freestyle from the very beginning and have success. i'll put that out there, but nobody can truthfully agree that freestyle is more consistent than being structured and methodical.
you priority #1 at improving the fastest way you can, is being able to nail all goals, which means you are able to play exactly how you want. like being able to move however you want as an athlete.
if you can't fully take advantage of being untouched in the first 7 minutes of the game, that has a cascading effect for how you can take advantage of any macro situation in the game.

so i'd make it one of your longterm goals to be able to do a 1-1-1 -> 3-1-1 -> 5-1-1 with upgrades rolling. (stim, +1, combat shields).
2 tanks, fully saturated on workers (63. 16 each mineral field = 48, remaining 15 comes from 5 gas x 3 workers ea.) by 7:30 if not better.
that's the goal. it's to not miss on one of those details. when you have tanks and combat shields, you can move out and attack with all you've got.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 10:30:28
May 11 2019 10:27 GMT
#22
On May 11 2019 00:27 Orlok wrote:
For me, when I first did it, since I also had no previous RTS experience, I took baby steps.
First, I learnt 1 base cheese and builds and practiced that to around silver.
From silver, I learnt 2 base builds and practiced off the back of those, mixing them with 1 base all ins as well.
From gold, I tried macro, and I got hammered at first so many times, but managed to slowly but surely get a feel for it, and it was from this point I really looked at pro builds and how to use them macro wise.


This. Pick things to practice/learn/fix one thing at a time. Everyone seems to encourage people to macro-bot their way to diamond, but honestly there is a lot of knowledge/skills to learn on the way. That being said, macro is huge.

If you need to practice a complicated thing (even a build is a complicated), break it down until the parts are simple to you, then practice those.

Mass games will not help you improve fundementally, and too much can even harm your development by promoting an autopilot mindset. Practice and learning RTS knowledge is a skill in itself, after you do it a while, you will wonder why you ever used to just pure mass games.

hyperion82
Profile Joined May 2019
5 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 13:43:35
May 11 2019 12:35 GMT
#23
Thank you nanaoei and Chronopolis,

nanaoei, you are right, my mind is mostly going into freestyle play..I got so much info in my head since I started playing, and I get confused myself while playing.. I tried to learn too fast while I still have gaps in my beginner basics..so I need to take some steps back, delete everything I know, and start from the basics and fill those gaps. See, the advice and info you shared to me, I cannot find it anywhere, not in streams/casts, not in beginner guides, no where... No one pointed me to the right direction. And I understand everything what you are saying, and I understand the numbers you are saying on both of your posts. So I will make it my goal to follow your advice to the line, and reach those goals you told me.

Chronopolis, yes, it seems that mass games didn't help me much, they mostly got me confused and tired, and low morale sicne half of those ton games were loses.. Since I started this thread, I switched into play 2-3 ranked games per day with big breaks in between, and spend sometime practicing in custom games or analyzing my replays...my mind is more clear than playing 14 hours straight.. and I can say I see there is a lot of improvement.

Washikie, funny to say I tried what you said, marines without upgrades, focus 100% on macro, create great economy..I tried in unranked, 8-0 so far. It's funny because goign 100% macro, it seems I have infinite resources and I can make infinite units (marines). And I never cared about any fights, I just "A" attacked from possible expansions all the way to the opponent's natural and main...I never looked at any fights..Funny to see how every opponent was destroyed running around trying to Micro the battle, and I didn't care, I was back with my SCVs creating new expansions and barracks..The power of macro! And I reached my 70 worker goal in 10 minutes.... but in 8!! and it can be better!
Doominator10
Profile Joined August 2012
United States515 Posts
May 17 2019 09:06 GMT
#24
Hey fam, been watching a ton of tournaments but just started playing again after what may be years. For conversation’s sake, how would y’all apply the advice in this thread for a Zerg player? My situation is a bit different since I’m already at a diamond level and peaked at masters at the start of lotv , just... rusty.
Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 2: Playoffs Day 6
Zoun vs ClassicLIVE!
Crank 923
Tasteless641
IndyStarCraft 147
Rex105
CranKy Ducklings71
3DClanTV 25
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 923
Tasteless 641
OGKoka 207
IndyStarCraft 141
Rex 107
ProTech79
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2333
Horang2 1428
EffOrt 1009
Hyuk 317
Snow 286
Larva 265
actioN 210
Leta 183
BeSt 180
Rush 146
[ Show more ]
Pusan 113
Mind 93
Light 74
Hyun 73
Barracks 69
ZerO 52
Liquid`Ret 51
Dewaltoss 49
Soulkey 49
Nal_rA 43
ggaemo 42
Sharp 28
Movie 22
Free 20
sorry 17
ivOry 16
Rock 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Sacsri 8
Noble 8
SilentControl 6
Terrorterran 4
Backho 4
Dota 2
singsing2102
XcaliburYe151
boxi98119
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss476
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King59
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor47
Other Games
olofmeister865
crisheroes405
Hui .196
B2W.Neo97
NeuroSwarm36
Trikslyr24
ZerO(Twitch)4
EmSc Tv 1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV14
Other Games
EmSc Tv 1
StarCraft 2
EmSc2Tv 1
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH236
• LUISG 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos825
Other Games
• WagamamaTV142
Upcoming Events
Map Test Tournament
10m
Korean StarCraft League
16h 10m
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
21h 10m
RSL Revival
23h 10m
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 21h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
Online Event
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.