• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:39
CEST 13:39
KST 20:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles0[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China7Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL64Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 730 users

Training schedule for a new player. Help! - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 04:51:59
May 11 2019 04:35 GMT
#21
On May 11 2019 11:13 hyperion82 wrote:
Thank you guys for your help!

nanaoei that is very important information, thank you I really need that. Btw, I main Terran (as all new players I believe do), for alt I play mostly Zerg than Protoss, and Random, all in Silver 2..the reason I already started to alt the other 2 races this early, other than just trying them out, is so I can learn the cons and pros of each race so I know what to look for while maining the Terran race, but I do enjoy Zerg and Protoss as much, and I believe I will enjoy them much more in the future when I will start playing much more seriously with them.

My opening, is 1-1-1, after that it always depends on my opponent I will add 2 more rax for 3-1-1 or 2 factories 1-3-1...but I usually go bio 3-1-1...I never go Sky, no need... I believe I need to master my macro first in order for my economy to support the expensive Sky...and/or Mech.. so I prefer Bio atm which is quite effective at all times.....for Zerg I play Roach/Hydras, nothing else above it, probably just to decisively end the game I would make 7-8 BroodLords along with my Roach/Hydra army....for Protoss I haven't decided yet.

I am not afraid to switch tech when I need to. When my income is high and I need to spend a lot while in the end game if it takes long, I'll probably switch from Bio and pop 10-15 more factories and go Hellbat/Thors :D

Most of my games here in Silver, are cheeses. Like 9 out of 10 games the opponent will cheese - probably they want to get higher up the ladder quickly like this. I do not cheese, I m trying learn the game normaly, because I do not believe cheeses are so effective in high level play against more experienced palyers...and I do not want to cheese otherwise I will not learn how to play my main race and try different approaches. But 9 out of 10 these games while countering the cheese, will get me off my original build order....fortunately these games end quickly.

I watch all of my replays, win or loss..I watch them open map "everyone", from my point of view, and from the opponent's point of view. I analyze them, and I do spot mistakes even in my winning ones, and I make sure I don't do them on my next game.


okay!
i'll stop you at the moment right before you say 3-1-1. first of all, it's nice that you know what you're doing with your production to be able to say those numbers.
in standard and low league plays (i've played many of these players over the years who stemmed over to 2v2 divisions) i know that having more barracks and more units feels much better. opponents tend to attack with everything they've got.
it's good to adjust and secure a clear advantage.
i'll set that aside for a second though.

if you want to learn proper play, you never really have to deviate from 1-1-1. from that build, you:
- start walling natural with depots
- 3rd CC as part of wall
- add 2 rax
- add 2 engi around 5:00 i'll say, give or take. we'll keep it simple.
that should be your goal. note the most important bit if that ordering is the 3rd CC is before the 2 additional rax.
i won't go into too much detail but this is the difference between capping out on workers at 8 minutes vs. 7 minutes.
being under pressure vs placing pressure and taking it off yourself.
if you're getting cheesed, 2 rax before 3rd CC, or make banshees or a early bunker. but the idea remains, the 3rd CC is a top priority in all cases.

watch one replay of another player doing this and mark down their timings. these are the things you aim for if you have no other goals.
- at what time do they cap out workers on all 3 bases? what's their supply count at this point?
- when does stim, +1/+1 finish? (i'll give you a hint, usually at the same time).
- nitty gritty details like, "how long can i stay on the map before zergling speed?" are things you can solve by booting up an AI game and testing once. a 2 base zerg plants a pool at ~17/18 supply with gas. the pool finishes at 2:10ish, zergling speed takes about 1:20. therefore, you pull your units back to safety before 3:30 when facing a hatch-gas-pool zerg.
you get the idea. these are the things you strive for if you want to improve notably quickly.

for the rest of your post, you're doing the thing about talking about the games too much. i understand where you're coming from and that i sound dismissive.
this is coming from a place where i believe after 10+ years of starcraft that practicing basics converts into better freestyle play.
there are people who freestyle from the very beginning and have success. i'll put that out there, but nobody can truthfully agree that freestyle is more consistent than being structured and methodical.
you priority #1 at improving the fastest way you can, is being able to nail all goals, which means you are able to play exactly how you want. like being able to move however you want as an athlete.
if you can't fully take advantage of being untouched in the first 7 minutes of the game, that has a cascading effect for how you can take advantage of any macro situation in the game.

so i'd make it one of your longterm goals to be able to do a 1-1-1 -> 3-1-1 -> 5-1-1 with upgrades rolling. (stim, +1, combat shields).
2 tanks, fully saturated on workers (63. 16 each mineral field = 48, remaining 15 comes from 5 gas x 3 workers ea.) by 7:30 if not better.
that's the goal. it's to not miss on one of those details. when you have tanks and combat shields, you can move out and attack with all you've got.
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
Chronopolis
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1484 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 10:30:28
May 11 2019 10:27 GMT
#22
On May 11 2019 00:27 Orlok wrote:
For me, when I first did it, since I also had no previous RTS experience, I took baby steps.
First, I learnt 1 base cheese and builds and practiced that to around silver.
From silver, I learnt 2 base builds and practiced off the back of those, mixing them with 1 base all ins as well.
From gold, I tried macro, and I got hammered at first so many times, but managed to slowly but surely get a feel for it, and it was from this point I really looked at pro builds and how to use them macro wise.


This. Pick things to practice/learn/fix one thing at a time. Everyone seems to encourage people to macro-bot their way to diamond, but honestly there is a lot of knowledge/skills to learn on the way. That being said, macro is huge.

If you need to practice a complicated thing (even a build is a complicated), break it down until the parts are simple to you, then practice those.

Mass games will not help you improve fundementally, and too much can even harm your development by promoting an autopilot mindset. Practice and learning RTS knowledge is a skill in itself, after you do it a while, you will wonder why you ever used to just pure mass games.

hyperion82
Profile Joined May 2019
5 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-05-11 13:43:35
May 11 2019 12:35 GMT
#23
Thank you nanaoei and Chronopolis,

nanaoei, you are right, my mind is mostly going into freestyle play..I got so much info in my head since I started playing, and I get confused myself while playing.. I tried to learn too fast while I still have gaps in my beginner basics..so I need to take some steps back, delete everything I know, and start from the basics and fill those gaps. See, the advice and info you shared to me, I cannot find it anywhere, not in streams/casts, not in beginner guides, no where... No one pointed me to the right direction. And I understand everything what you are saying, and I understand the numbers you are saying on both of your posts. So I will make it my goal to follow your advice to the line, and reach those goals you told me.

Chronopolis, yes, it seems that mass games didn't help me much, they mostly got me confused and tired, and low morale sicne half of those ton games were loses.. Since I started this thread, I switched into play 2-3 ranked games per day with big breaks in between, and spend sometime practicing in custom games or analyzing my replays...my mind is more clear than playing 14 hours straight.. and I can say I see there is a lot of improvement.

Washikie, funny to say I tried what you said, marines without upgrades, focus 100% on macro, create great economy..I tried in unranked, 8-0 so far. It's funny because goign 100% macro, it seems I have infinite resources and I can make infinite units (marines). And I never cared about any fights, I just "A" attacked from possible expansions all the way to the opponent's natural and main...I never looked at any fights..Funny to see how every opponent was destroyed running around trying to Micro the battle, and I didn't care, I was back with my SCVs creating new expansions and barracks..The power of macro! And I reached my 70 worker goal in 10 minutes.... but in 8!! and it can be better!
Doominator10
Profile Joined August 2012
United States515 Posts
May 17 2019 09:06 GMT
#24
Hey fam, been watching a ton of tournaments but just started playing again after what may be years. For conversation’s sake, how would y’all apply the advice in this thread for a Zerg player? My situation is a bit different since I’m already at a diamond level and peaked at masters at the start of lotv , just... rusty.
Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#43
WardiTV498
OGKoka 357
Rex130
CranKy Ducklings58
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 357
Lowko208
RotterdaM 200
Harstem 195
Rex 130
IndyStarCraft 79
Creator 60
StarCraft: Brood War
Jaedong 1154
Flash 993
Bisu 686
Hyuk 629
Soma 395
Pusan 362
Larva 355
Stork 324
actioN 265
EffOrt 224
[ Show more ]
Snow 211
Soulkey 188
ZerO 165
Sharp 133
Mind 54
sSak 53
JulyZerg 43
sorry 41
hero 36
Aegong 34
zelot 25
Sea.KH 25
Icarus 24
Free 20
GoRush 18
yabsab 18
Barracks 16
HiyA 14
Movie 14
JYJ13
Shine 12
IntoTheRainbow 11
ivOry 4
soO 0
Dota 2
qojqva1959
XaKoH 575
XcaliburYe539
syndereN430
League of Legends
singsing2003
Counter-Strike
x6flipin529
allub143
byalli119
rGuardiaN57
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King205
Other Games
B2W.Neo365
crisheroes330
Happy307
Pyrionflax247
SortOf139
ArmadaUGS29
ZerO(Twitch)24
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick30279
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 347
• lizZardDota2192
Other Games
• WagamamaTV207
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 21m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
22h 21m
WardiTV European League
1d 4h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 12h
The PondCast
1d 22h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.