EPTCommunity Update - March 12, 2019 - Page 2
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This thread is starting to get out of hand. From this point on, if you are going to post statistics and/or data as a way to back up your statements about racial imbalances, then please post the sources as well. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8255 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On March 13 2019 05:30 DomeGetta wrote: Sure. But it also technically will help a Terran who is deciding to play a macrogame not be 4 full upgrades behind. Which is definitely substantial but perhaps not enough to drive that decision considering you will still be behind on upgrades just not as bad and moving toward an inferior ultimate tech.. in the end i think they will need to either reduce chrono or nerf substantially protoss early game aggressive options so that Terran if deciding to macro can do so without investing so much into defense. Would need to figure out a way to do it without making 1 base all ins from Terran stronger tho. Also to be frank im not sure 55 total extra seconds is enough to make a real difference but its a step in the right direction. Or they could throw away the excuse of "asymmetric balance" and finally properly balance the game by buffing late game Terran. | ||
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pzlama333
United States282 Posts
If the zerg player chose to build nydus worm inside defender's main base which he has no vision, or he fails to response in time, it is the defender's fault, not a balance issue. | ||
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
pfffff | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
On March 13 2019 05:40 Elentos wrote: Terran did fine with this cyclone in the early game 3 years ago. And it wasn't a really key unit for TvP in 2017 either, even after the redesign. So maybe the problem isn't that but a combination of widow mine nerf, stalker buff, like half a dozen charge buffs and a chrono boost buff where the other macro mechanics went untouched and maybe one of that could be addressed. What about TvZ? By some metrics it's performing even worse and PvZ is also trending towards Z. | ||
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StarcraftSquall
United States196 Posts
Terrans: 3 GSL, 1 HSC Zergs: 2 IEMs, 4 WCS, 1 GSL Weekender, 2 BlizzCon Protoss: 2 Super Tournament And Terrans are STILL whining about imbalance DESPITE recent results. If anything Protoss should be the salty bunch, they’re getting nerfed AGAIN because they don’t complain despite no high level results since 2017. It’s about time Toss got a break. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
On March 13 2019 06:50 StarcraftSquall wrote: Since the start of 2018: Maru: 3 GSL Terrans: 1 HSC Zergs: 2 IEMs, 4 WCS, 1 GSL Weekender, 2 BlizzCon Protoss: 2 Super Tournament And Terrans are STILL whining about imbalance DESPITE recent results. If anything Protoss should be the salty bunch, they’re getting nerfed AGAIN because they don’t complain despite no high level results since 2017. It’s about time Toss got a break. Fixed for you. | ||
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TrashPanda
69 Posts
You forgot to filter out Serral. And it's news to me that we had 2 Blizzcons since the start of 2018 Edit: And while we're at it, just take a look at the 2nd places (in Premier Events: 1T, 3Z and 11P) | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On March 13 2019 06:22 royalroadweed wrote: Or they could throw away the excuse of "asymmetric balance" and finally properly balance the game by buffing late game Terran. lategame tvp is actually okay if you can get there on equal terms. Problem is just that Toss is always incredibly far ahead after the early game. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On March 13 2019 06:50 StarcraftSquall wrote: Since the start of 2018: Terrans: 3 GSL, 1 HSC Zergs: 2 IEMs, 4 WCS, 1 GSL Weekender, 2 BlizzCon Protoss: 2 Super Tournament And Terrans are STILL whining about imbalance DESPITE recent results. If anything Protoss should be the salty bunch, they’re getting nerfed AGAIN because they don’t complain despite no high level results since 2017. It’s about time Toss got a break. what does balance in 2018 have to do with balance in 2019? | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On March 13 2019 05:18 TKL wrote: I see lots of terraan think the issue of TvP is the economy and i'm going to go ahead and assume they are right so rather than try to nerf the toss economy, how about be buff the terran economy ? It might not be enough but currently the terran supply depot takes 21 seconds to be built against 18 for toss and Zerg, maybe if it took 18 seconds as well for terran to build their supply, it would allow the scvs building depots to gain about 3 seconds of mineral mining. I don't think it would be quite enough to actually balance the match up but i think it would be a much more constructive step forward than nerfing protoss upgrades wich will also have an impact in PvZ What do you guys think ? This is the best idea I've read in a long while, I don't know if it would really impact a lot but as the situation is right now terran is simply lacking early game pressure to prevent the protoss from being greedy. In most standard games protoss can safely cut corners to get ahead, it is kind of the same with zerg but zerg has more weaknesses to try and harass. Terran either needs improved early/earlymid pressure like the old cyclone provided or a buff in some other aspect to be able to come out of standard safe opening on equal footing with the protoss. Quicker build times is a great idea for one way to gradually be a able to tweak so terrans gets into a slightly more even position mid game. Its a really bad place to be where terran cant be greedy early, they have very limited ways to be aggresive early which all are easily scouted and after safe openings protoss is ahead. If the game goes lategame most agree P has the advantage, so what are the options for terran? Mid game all in push or doomdrop which makes the matchup very stale. | ||
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Xamo
Spain886 Posts
Terran just needs a way to punish a greedy protoss early game - 99% of them these days. Just not an unscoutable way as it had before. | ||
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HorussTv
Mexico34 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
I do like how the balance team is being cautious with changes though, while IEM was a Terran graveyard for sure that hasn't been the case with GSL nor is it the case at all with WESG right now where 2 of the qualified Koreans are Terran players. Personally, I think the problem with the Nydus Worm is not so much with the worms themselves but with how well they synergize with Queens. I think anything that allows Queens to be an offensive unit needs to be carefully tuned, and in the Nydus Worm's case I think you can easily solve most of these all in problems it has by DRASTICALLY cutting how much creep the Worm itself generates. Without such an easy access to creep, Queens become much less useful in an attacking capacity while leaving most other units relatively unchanged. | ||
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On March 13 2019 06:50 StarcraftSquall wrote: Since the start of 2018: Terrans: 3 GSL, 1 HSC Zergs: 2 IEMs, 4 WCS, 1 GSL Weekender, 2 BlizzCon Protoss: 2 Super Tournament And Terrans are STILL whining about imbalance DESPITE recent results. If anything Protoss should be the salty bunch, they’re getting nerfed AGAIN because they don’t complain despite no high level results since 2017. It’s about time Toss got a break. Oh, you wanna go this way? First of all it's 2019 if you didn't notice Second of all, acording to this page, we have following numbers of people in the finals:  Premier Tournaments11 Zergs 5 Terrans 12 Protoss Now it doesn't seem so impressive, right? Let's now filter away Stats, Maru and Serral, shall we? 5 Zergs (Serral 6) 1 TY(Maru 4) 8 Protoss (Stats 4) And now it looks even more wrong considering the Terran balance. Oh noez! How can all the Terrans whine, all they have to do is play like Maru in 2018... but wait, isn't it 2019? Well, we're boned. Edit> Let's be evil, let's add IEM finals, 6 Z 1 TY 8 Protoss(Stats goes to 5) Your argument is now even better, isn't it?  | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On March 13 2019 08:19 Fran_ wrote: It's probably a FAQ, but what is the reason why supply depots take 21s? It's a honest question, I don't remember reading the logic behind this choice anywhere and I assume there is one. Interesting question, I don't know but according to liquidpedia in wol and hots overlord/pylon used to be 25 seconds build time and supply depots 30 seconds. In Lotv they decreased the build speed to what we have today. I would guess that in wol and hots the build time of the supply depot was critical for how fast terran rushes came so they needed the increased build time. In lotv early rushes got nerfed incredibly due to the shift in economy and I would guess the difference in build time between overlord/pylon and supply depots is mostly inherited from wold/hots were it was needed balance wise. I would be surprised if there is an actual reason today in lotv that it is longer for supply depots, it doesn't really make sense. edit: I mean zerg invest a larvae and then it builds itself in the egg, protoss invests nothing in building a pylon while terran needs to both "lose" one worker for the duration of the build time and then on top of that have longer build time? It just doesn't make sense. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19399 Posts
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
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