Community Update - March 12, 2019 - Page 12

This thread is starting to get out of hand. From this point on, if you are going to post statistics and/or data as a way to back up your statements about racial imbalances, then please post the sources as well.

Harris1st

Germany7450 Posts

March 25 2019 14:48 GMT

#221

Patchday is Tuesday historically

I don't see whats wrong with Tempest tbh. You can easily snipe 2-3 with a short Corrupter / Viking dive. Sure, chances are you will get stormed but me personally, I like this dynamic quite a lot.
Point is you have to distract, dive and get out again and again

Elentos

55594 Posts

March 25 2019 14:50 GMT

#222

On March 25 2019 23:32 BronzeKnee wrote:
TvP is balanced: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/

So it is a game design problem in TvP: Terran has to rely on timing attacks because Protoss endgame is clearly stronger. However, their timing attacks are clearly effective.

So any nerf to Protoss late game should be balanced by a compensatory buff to Protoss early game to maintain the 50/50 win rate we have now.

In the past, Blizzard hasn't done that. They nerfed Adepts and removed Khaydarin Amulet when TvP was balanced, which shifted the match up dramatically in the favor of Terrran.

I don't think Protoss needs a buff to early game as compensation but something for the (early) mid-game. Let's be realistic, most Protoss losses come from timings that hit in a range from like 6 minutes to 9-ish minutes. We shouldn't nerf Protoss late game and buff early game to compensate instead of making the middle stage of the game more acceptable for both races. I also feel that early games tend to go favourably for Protoss ever since the proxy threat was greatly reduced.

This is also why I think the changes for this patch - upgrade timings - aren't a good idea. Instead of giving Terrans more options and opportunities to do well later on in the game, they make it easier to win with the timings that are already so strong they bring the match-up to 50%.

On March 25 2019 23:48 Harris1st wrote:
Patchday is Tuesday historically

I don't see whats wrong with Tempest tbh. You can easily snipe 2-3 with a short Corrupter / Viking dive. Sure, chances are you will get stormed but me personally, I like this dynamic quite a lot.
Point is you have to distract, dive and get out again and again

Combined with revelation it seems really unlikely to me you can get a trade that's worth it if the Protoss is at least half paying attention. The tempest-revelation synergy is really frustrating. Because as we all know, tempests are garbage in a real fight. But with revelation letting them pick away at you and telling them in advance if you're looking to engage, it's not easy to get one.

Cyro

United Kingdom20345 Posts

March 25 2019 15:05 GMT

#223

"Patchday is Tuesday historically"

"Our current plan is to release these changes to live servers on Monday, March 25."

All i know is what blizzard said and that i woke up this morning with no changes

Elentos

55594 Posts

March 25 2019 15:17 GMT

#224

On March 26 2019 00:05 Cyro wrote:
"Patchday is Tuesday historically"

"Our current plan is to release these changes to live servers on Monday, March 25."

All i know is what blizzard said and that i woke up this morning with no changes

On the bright side, you woke up this morning!

renaissanceMAN

United States1840 Posts

March 25 2019 15:29 GMT

#225

On March 25 2019 23:50 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

Bolded & highlighted for emphasis. It really doesn't feel like this is going to change all that much, rather if I do decide to go with a semi all-in timing, it may have a little more success.

MrWayne

219 Posts

March 25 2019 16:25 GMT

#226

Many people(both Terran and Protoss) criticized the proposed changes to protoss so maybe they evaluate a alternative change.

Tyrhanius

France947 Posts

March 25 2019 16:49 GMT

#227

One chrono make upgrade to finish 10s sooner, so if protoss chrono twice, they will finish sooner than Z/T anyway (but y a few seconds sooner and not 20s). The question is, is it common to chrono each upgrades twice or not for toss ?

pvsnp

7676 Posts

March 25 2019 18:22 GMT

#228

Patch is live now

Cyro

United Kingdom20345 Posts

March 25 2019 18:36 GMT

#229

Confirmed all changes live, sad day for stargate play and pvz

MockHamill

Sweden1798 Posts

March 25 2019 18:44 GMT

#230

On March 26 2019 03:22 pvsnp wrote:
Patch is live now

Good. The nydus change was needed.
Protos changes is a small step in the right direction but I doubt it will change anything below high GM.

Cyro

United Kingdom20345 Posts

March 25 2019 19:02 GMT

#231

On March 26 2019 03:44 MockHamill wrote:

Show nested quote +

Good. The nydus change was needed.
Protos changes is a small step in the right direction but I doubt it will change anything below high GM.

All of these players are high GM

Xamo

Spain886 Posts

March 25 2019 19:29 GMT

#232

Fun fact: The changes only need to decide 1 out of 100 games to move win rates from 50-50 to 51-49.

BerserkSword

United States2123 Posts

March 25 2019 21:22 GMT

#233

On March 24 2019 23:57 MrWayne wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 24 2019 12:39 BerserkSword wrote:

On March 24 2019 11:31 Ben... wrote:
Yes, and another thing that needs to be factored in is that the feedback nerf has had a rather big impact on infestor vs. HT interactions. Now that infestors don't die to feedback, it's much less risky to run them forward to try and get a fungal off on the Protoss air army.

We haven't really seen a lot of pro PvZs hit the late game yet because of nydus and other reasons, but I do think if what I've seen on pro streams is any indication, it could get pretty rough. It seems like most pro protoss players are now trying to end the matchup via all-ins or timings before broodlord/infestor can get out. I also saw a Zerg playing lategame against puck utilize the new nydus to harass bases while still defending the main infestor/broodlord/corruptor/mass static army (they have a nydus head with the main army and then have others pop up near protoss bases) and it looked incredibly tough to deal with since all ground units could hit a base and then be back to defend within a few seconds if the protoss tried to attack the main army/static defence area.

The tempest in its current state is actually pretty weak against Zerg now. It's no longer fast and agile enough to poke with safely, but it also has such low health that it can get picked off easily once vipers are out and there's a few spore crawlers with the army. It's in the same boat as the stalker where they made a drastic change to it that was good, but slightly too good, but instead of nerfing it a little bit to dial it back they basically split the difference between the old version and new version and it's not good for either the new use case or the old use case.

the worst part about the new tempest is that it isnt even really split between the old and new versions.

the first buff was giving it speed in exchange for durability. the speed was then nerfed, but none of the durability was given back

tempests get killed so easily now. they shouldve at least given it some HP back imo

To be fair the Tempest is still faster than the old Tempest and it's also cheaper in both minerals/gas and supply.

I think the Tempest is fine as it is, if Protoss struggles against Zerg then Blizzard should revisit the carrier. The carrier isn't really utilized currently and a buff to the carrier wouldn't have a big effect on TvP because the carrier is historically not that good vs Terran.

the new tempest is barely cheaper, while the HP was cut in half and shield decreased by 25. that's really flimsy lol. to put it into perspective, void rays are faster and only have 25 shields less than tempest, and we all know how easy it is to kill void rays

the problem with the carrier is that if it doesnt suck, it turns into the ultimate a-move unit at a critical mass. that's why they nerfed it into the ground. it has the potential to be such a powerful well rounded unit due to its design

Cyro

United Kingdom20345 Posts

March 25 2019 22:38 GMT

#234

They also had a formerly unannounced and untested "bug fix" that nerfed chrono boost by removing one of its features that they added to the game on purpose 9 years ago.

Chrono used to give +15% energy regeneration to buildings that it was on - including the nexus - and will no longer do so. Pretty small difference overall (2.36 extra energy gain per chronoboost on a nexus if i've got the math right) but not completely irrelevant.

pvsnp

7676 Posts

March 25 2019 23:33 GMT

#235

On March 26 2019 07:38 Cyro wrote:
They also had a formerly unannounced and untested "bug fix" that nerfed chrono boost by removing one of its features that they added to the game on purpose 9 years ago.

Chrono used to give +15% energy regeneration to buildings that it was on - including the nexus - and will no longer do so. Pretty small difference overall (2.36 extra energy gain per chronoboost on a nexus if i've got the math right) but not completely irrelevant.

Oh damn, my build was really counting on that extra 2.36 energy.

TheWildShooter

80 Posts

March 26 2019 00:17 GMT

#236

On March 26 2019 08:33 pvsnp wrote:

Show nested quote +

Oh damn, my build was really counting on that extra 2.36 energy.

You forgot to put /s.

For that matter, if it's so small and insignificant, why would they even mess with protoss builds by "fixing" this intentional decade-long feature?

TheWildShooter

80 Posts

March 26 2019 01:35 GMT

#237

The fact, that balance team nerfed chrono in this particular patch, is worthy of attention. This indicates that the whining is working, and guys at Blizzard already turned their attention on economic aspect of protoss, without awaiting for balance consequences of upgrades nerf. I think this is only beginning, soon we will see the big nerf of protoss economy.