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This thread is starting to get out of hand. From this point on, if you are going to post statistics and/or data as a way to back up your statements about racial imbalances, then please post the sources as well. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6691 Posts
I don't see whats wrong with Tempest tbh. You can easily snipe 2-3 with a short Corrupter / Viking dive. Sure, chances are you will get stormed but me personally, I like this dynamic quite a lot. Point is you have to distract, dive and get out again and again | ||
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Elentos
55456 Posts
On March 25 2019 23:32 BronzeKnee wrote: TvP is balanced: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ So it is a game design problem in TvP: Terran has to rely on timing attacks because Protoss endgame is clearly stronger. However, their timing attacks are clearly effective. So any nerf to Protoss late game should be balanced by a compensatory buff to Protoss early game to maintain the 50/50 win rate we have now. In the past, Blizzard hasn't done that. They nerfed Adepts and removed Khaydarin Amulet when TvP was balanced, which shifted the match up dramatically in the favor of Terrran. I don't think Protoss needs a buff to early game as compensation but something for the (early) mid-game. Let's be realistic, most Protoss losses come from timings that hit in a range from like 6 minutes to 9-ish minutes. We shouldn't nerf Protoss late game and buff early game to compensate instead of making the middle stage of the game more acceptable for both races. I also feel that early games tend to go favourably for Protoss ever since the proxy threat was greatly reduced. This is also why I think the changes for this patch - upgrade timings - aren't a good idea. Instead of giving Terrans more options and opportunities to do well later on in the game, they make it easier to win with the timings that are already so strong they bring the match-up to 50%. On March 25 2019 23:48 Harris1st wrote: Patchday is Tuesday historically I don't see whats wrong with Tempest tbh. You can easily snipe 2-3 with a short Corrupter / Viking dive. Sure, chances are you will get stormed but me personally, I like this dynamic quite a lot. Point is you have to distract, dive and get out again and again Combined with revelation it seems really unlikely to me you can get a trade that's worth it if the Protoss is at least half paying attention. The tempest-revelation synergy is really frustrating. Because as we all know, tempests are garbage in a real fight. But with revelation letting them pick away at you and telling them in advance if you're looking to engage, it's not easy to get one. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
"Our current plan is to release these changes to live servers on Monday, March 25." All i know is what blizzard said and that i woke up this morning with no changes  | ||
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Elentos
55456 Posts
On March 26 2019 00:05 Cyro wrote: "Patchday is Tuesday historically" "Our current plan is to release these changes to live servers on Monday, March 25." All i know is what blizzard said and that i woke up this morning with no changes On the bright side, you woke up this morning!  | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On March 25 2019 23:50 Elentos wrote: I don't think Protoss needs a buff to early game as compensation but something for the (early) mid-game. Let's be realistic, most Protoss losses come from timings that hit in a range from like 6 minutes to 9-ish minutes. We shouldn't nerf Protoss late game and buff early game to compensate instead of making the middle stage of the game more acceptable for both races. I also feel that early games tend to go favourably for Protoss ever since the proxy threat was greatly reduced. This is also why I think the changes for this patch - upgrade timings - aren't a good idea. Instead of giving Terrans more options and opportunities to do well later on in the game, they make it easier to win with the timings that are already so strong they bring the match-up to 50%. Combined with revelation it seems really unlikely to me you can get a trade that's worth it if the Protoss is at least half paying attention. The tempest-revelation synergy is really frustrating. Because as we all know, tempests are garbage in a real fight. But with revelation letting them pick away at you and telling them in advance if you're looking to engage, it's not easy to get one. Bolded & highlighted for emphasis. It really doesn't feel like this is going to change all that much, rather if I do decide to go with a semi all-in timing, it may have a little more success. | ||
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MrWayne
219 Posts
On March 26 2019 00:05 Cyro wrote: "Patchday is Tuesday historically" "Our current plan is to release these changes to live servers on Monday, March 25." All i know is what blizzard said and that i woke up this morning with no changes Many people(both Terran and Protoss) criticized the proposed changes to protoss so maybe they evaluate a alternative change. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On March 26 2019 03:22 pvsnp wrote: Patch is live now Good. The nydus change was needed. Protos changes is a small step in the right direction but I doubt it will change anything below high GM. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
On March 26 2019 03:44 MockHamill wrote: Good. The nydus change was needed. Protos changes is a small step in the right direction but I doubt it will change anything below high GM. All of these players are high GM | ||
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Xamo
Spain874 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On March 24 2019 23:57 MrWayne wrote: To be fair the Tempest is still faster than the old Tempest and it's also cheaper in both minerals/gas and supply. I think the Tempest is fine as it is, if Protoss struggles against Zerg then Blizzard should revisit the carrier. The carrier isn't really utilized currently and a buff to the carrier wouldn't have a big effect on TvP because the carrier is historically not that good vs Terran. the new tempest is barely cheaper, while the HP was cut in half and shield decreased by 25. that's really flimsy lol. to put it into perspective, void rays are faster and only have 25 shields less than tempest, and we all know how easy it is to kill void rays the problem with the carrier is that if it doesnt suck, it turns into the ultimate a-move unit at a critical mass. that's why they nerfed it into the ground. it has the potential to be such a powerful well rounded unit due to its design | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
Chrono used to give +15% energy regeneration to buildings that it was on - including the nexus - and will no longer do so. Pretty small difference overall (2.36 extra energy gain per chronoboost on a nexus if i've got the math right) but not completely irrelevant. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 26 2019 07:38 Cyro wrote: They also had a formerly unannounced and untested "bug fix" that nerfed chrono boost by removing one of its features that they added to the game on purpose 9 years ago. Chrono used to give +15% energy regeneration to buildings that it was on - including the nexus - and will no longer do so. Pretty small difference overall (2.36 extra energy gain per chronoboost on a nexus if i've got the math right) but not completely irrelevant. Oh damn, my build was really counting on that extra 2.36 energy. | ||
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TheWildShooter
79 Posts
On March 26 2019 08:33 pvsnp wrote: Oh damn, my build was really counting on that extra 2.36 energy. You forgot to put /s. For that matter, if it's so small and insignificant, why would they even mess with protoss builds by "fixing" this intentional decade-long feature? | ||
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TheWildShooter
79 Posts
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Parcelleus
Australia1662 Posts
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FBTsingLoong
China410 Posts
On March 26 2019 07:38 Cyro wrote: They also had a formerly unannounced and untested "bug fix" that nerfed chrono boost by removing one of its features that they added to the game on purpose 9 years ago. Chrono used to give +15% energy regeneration to buildings that it was on - including the nexus - and will no longer do so. Pretty small difference overall (2.36 extra energy gain per chronoboost on a nexus if i've got the math right) but not completely irrelevant. It seems it IS a bug really,according to a Chinese community.But I don't know how to translate it.  | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
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