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lol people were pretending it's hard to predict who makes it out of group D when there were 2 foreigners guaranteed to take last places
User was warned for this post.
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United States33479 Posts
Dear's largely here on the strength of his PvT (14-0 for the tournament!) but now he can't have another T opponent until the finals (if TY even makes it). Still, an impressive surprise (or is it?) run from him. Also, I think it's fun to point out that Stats, Zest, Dark, and Dear all had better records than Serral. (Yes, I know Serral was in a very hard group and that his last match had no competitive stakes. That's why I said it was for FUN  )
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On March 02 2019 08:19 Waxangel wrote:
Dear's largely here on the strength of his PvT
weeeell he 2-0d sOs and soO as well so his other matchups don't look all that bad either. losing to ragnagod is no shame, and scarlett was a mere fluke 
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On March 02 2019 08:06 herwo wrote:
lol people were pretending it's hard to predict who makes it out of group D when there were 2 foreigners guaranteed to take last places
Why on earth should the 2 foreigners be guaranteed to take last places? What a troll...
It's been a 4 way tie - so they were extremely close, right?
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Hopefully we get the soO v Serral bo5. Other than that, I'd say Stats v Dark is pretty much a given semifinals, but it's harder to say who is going to face Serral in the other one.
And now for TY to Regenerate the Glory and give us all the epic seven-game grand finals that we deserve
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hoping for a Dark vs soO finals here. soO hasn't gotten 2nd at Katowice yet so it's time.
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On March 02 2019 08:30 Tommy131313 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 08:06 herwo wrote:
lol people were pretending it's hard to predict who makes it out of group D when there were 2 foreigners guaranteed to take last places Why on earth should the 2 foreigners be guaranteed to take last places? What a troll... It's been a 4 way tie - so they were extremely close, right?
they collectively took 1 series from the 3 players that advanced so no, not close at all.
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Damn the only way Serral will face TY is if they both make the finals. That is disappointing. At least TY doesn't have to deal with protoss until the ro4. Hope he can make a deep run.
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i feel like stats is the only guy there who can make serral bleed
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On March 02 2019 08:40 BerserkSword wrote:
i feel like stats is the only guy there who can make serral bleed
ikr it gets old seeing everyone is one class below serral
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Bisutopia19298 Posts
Amazing bottom bracket. No matter the finalist it will be tough for Serral if he makes it there too.
We saw a huge weakness in Serral's ability to close out late game ZvT against top tier Terrans. If TY plays Serral he now has a game plan on how to win.
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On March 02 2019 08:34 herwo wrote:they collectively took 1 series from the 3 players that advanced so no, not close at all.
What part of “Both TY and soO advanced by winning a single map more than uThermal” don’t you understand?
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sure it will be dark vs serral
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On March 02 2019 08:40 BerserkSword wrote:
i feel like stats is the only guy there who can make serral bleed
Naw.
soO and TY have a better chance imo. soO for just having incredible ZvZ that can match Serral and TY for being a Terran with a huge arsenal to throw at him.
Seral vs TY is the best finals possible. Dark or Stats will likely ruin that though.
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On March 02 2019 09:00 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:
What part of “Both TY and soO advanced by winning a single map more than uThermal” don’t you understand?
the part where this is false lol
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On March 02 2019 09:03 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 08:40 BerserkSword wrote:
i feel like stats is the only guy there who can make serral bleed Naw. soO and TY have a better chance imo. soO for just having incredible ZvZ that can match Serral and TY for being a Terran with a huge arsenal to throw at him. Seral vs TY is the best finals possible. Dark or Stats will likely ruin that though.
someone was trying to argue with me earlier that soO has terrible ZvZ, I was like ????? soO vs serral would be pretty exciting, much better than Zest Serral
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On March 02 2019 09:06 starkiller123 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 09:03 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On March 02 2019 08:40 BerserkSword wrote:
i feel like stats is the only guy there who can make serral bleed Naw. soO and TY have a better chance imo. soO for just having incredible ZvZ that can match Serral and TY for being a Terran with a huge arsenal to throw at him. Seral vs TY is the best finals possible. Dark or Stats will likely ruin that though. someone was trying to argue with me earlier that soO has terrible ZvZ, I was like ????? soO vs serral would be pretty exciting, much better than Zest Serral
he did lose to bly in hsc... i know it's a meme by this point, but his zvz is better in korean zvz where games don't go past mid game. soO's late game has not been great in any matchup, and he definitely doesn't get much training for late game zvz while serral gets plenty on the european ladder. i doubt a bo5 between soO and serral would go any different than expected. once serral gets lurkers, soO is gonna panic throw
(don't get me wrong though, serral would beat him in mid game zvz as well )
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eeey we get blessed with soo vs Zest
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On March 02 2019 09:03 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 08:40 BerserkSword wrote:
i feel like stats is the only guy there who can make serral bleed Naw. soO and TY have a better chance imo. soO for just having incredible ZvZ that can match Serral and TY for being a Terran with a huge arsenal to throw at him. Seral vs TY is the best finals possible. Dark or Stats will likely ruin that though.
soO has an nice ZvZ but Serral is a completely different beast....i think soO would get eviscerated. Serral has already dismantled the premier Zergs in Dark and Rogue en route to his GSL vs the WCS finals i dont think soO is as good as they are at this level.
TY is interesting but recently he can barely hang with the Dark's and Rogue's....there is nothing that makes me think he can beat Serral.
meanwhile Stats met him in the GSL vs world and WCS finals and took games off of him
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So sad to see lack of even racial distribution. Makes for less entertaining tournament.
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Serral to take it all. Sad about the terrans.
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On March 02 2019 09:03 herwo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 09:00 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:
What part of “Both TY and soO advanced by winning a single map more than uThermal” don’t you understand? the part where this is false lol
No, it isn’t. Had uThermal won one map that he lost, his map score would be 6:6, which is exactly the map score TY and soO got.
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So the final will be Serral vs Stats/Dark/TY, unless soO could channel his inner kong power.
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On March 02 2019 09:45 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 09:03 herwo wrote:On March 02 2019 09:00 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:
What part of “Both TY and soO advanced by winning a single map more than uThermal” don’t you understand? the part where this is false lol No, it isn’t. Had uThermal won one map that he lost, his map score would be 6:6, which is exactly the map score TY and soO got.
now do some calculations and let me know who'd have advanced in this situation. ty who had 1 more series won, soO who won the head-to-head, or uthermal who got outplayed by everyone?
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On March 02 2019 09:03 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 08:40 BerserkSword wrote:
i feel like stats is the only guy there who can make serral bleed Naw. soO and TY have a better chance imo. soO for just having incredible ZvZ that can match Serral and TY for being a Terran with a huge arsenal to throw at him. .
Not if soO plays the way he played today.
As for my prediction, for some reason I have a feeling that Serral will not take this title. I can't exactly tell you why. Maybe it's because he looked kinda lost vs Innovation while Stats and Dark both looked almost flawless. Especially Stats. But I'd also be glad if Serral won this one as well.
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i don't care who'll win, but i hope to see some good games in the next stage... most games so far have been underwhelming, feeding off "stories" and big names but without that much substance. it'd be nice if someone could take down serral to at least give him a reason to take his game a step further, but it doesn't seem likely... zest vs soo looks exciting, ragnarok vs neeb... i don't want to see another serral vs stats, but koreans are slacking off.. soO has a better chance winning a GSL than an international championship so better focus on that.. gl to all players tomorrow hope they bring some good games!!
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Dear vs Ragnarok for the finals, you guys hear it here first.
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On March 02 2019 09:48 herwo wrote:
now do some calculations and let me know who'd have advanced in this situation. ty who had 1 more series won, soO who won the head-to-head, or uthermal who got outplayed by everyone?
uThermal wins the third map against TY. uThermal advances in 2nd place, TY is out in 5th place.
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On March 02 2019 10:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 09:48 herwo wrote:
now do some calculations and let me know who'd have advanced in this situation. ty who had 1 more series won, soO who won the head-to-head, or uthermal who got outplayed by everyone? uThermal wins the third map against TY. uThermal advances in 2nd place, TY is out in 5th place.
nice try moving goal posts, but that's not an argument for uthermal "wins a map;" it's an argument for uthermal winning a specific map, namely beating TY, which won't happen in his wildest dreams: ty is 4-0 against your friend now. anyway, glad the excess weight is off the plane, so we can hopefully have some good starcraft matches instead of overhyped scrappy games from mid-tier players
User was temp banned for this post.
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Italy3963 Posts
On March 02 2019 08:57 BisuDagger wrote:
Amazing bottom bracket. No matter the finalist it will be tough for Serral if he makes it there too.
We saw a huge weakness in Serral's ability to close out late game ZvT against top tier Terrans. If TY plays Serral he now has a game plan on how to win.
The game against Gumiho was the result of lack of proper scouting, the first game against Inno was a 40 minutes death animation due to tons of roasted drones.
Serral's last game against Inno was someway perplexing, he was in a very good position and seemed too passive and indecisive.
After winning the first map, Serral was sure to advance as first in the group even if Solar's would have gone 2-0 so there actually is a question mark on the actual relevance of his subsequent loss, not unlike his 0-3 online defeat against Neeb right before BlizzCon.
Serral played at a quite high level today, committing too many errors(pointless aggression against Solar, not scouting properly against Gumiho, messing up Zerglings' micro against Ragnarok) as well as impressive plays(the astonishing comeback in that game against Solar, for example); the last two games he just seemed a bit off, unlike his usual self.
We might have the answer in a couple of days, or a couple of weeks at WESG; TY's path to the finals is theorically harder than Serral's if we look at the confidence in the matchups they'd have to play to reach them.
I'm quite convinced Serral takes this if he avoids to be such a memer.
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On March 02 2019 10:16 Colouss wrote:
Dear vs Ragnarok for the finals, you guys hear it here first.
I would actually enjoy this finals lol
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On March 02 2019 10:45 herwo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 10:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On March 02 2019 09:48 herwo wrote:
now do some calculations and let me know who'd have advanced in this situation. ty who had 1 more series won, soO who won the head-to-head, or uthermal who got outplayed by everyone? uThermal wins the third map against TY. uThermal advances in 2nd place, TY is out in 5th place. nice try moving goal posts, but that's not an argument for uthermal "wins a map;" it's an argument for uthermal winning a specific map, namely beating TY, which won't happen in his wildest dreams: ty is 4-0 against your friend now. anyway, glad the excess weight is off the plane, so we can hopefully have some good starcraft matches instead of overhyped scrappy games from mid-tier players User was temp banned for this post.
lol banned for this give me a break
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On March 02 2019 11:46 Xain0n wrote:
Serral's last game against Inno was someway perplexing, he was in a very good position and seemed too passive and indecisive.
My theory is that Innovation lost in this group so badly because he was specifically practicing to take Serral out, which he managed to do. In both of those 40+ min. games Inno won, he had the same late-game strategy: siege up w/ air at the third for 20 mins while wreaking havoc with nukes & bio around the map. I think Serral coulda/shoulda tried to bust the turtle rather than letting his attention keep getting split. + Show Spoiler +The broods/corruptors were circling around uselessly, & the libs/vikings were just sitting idle, while we just watched ghost/medi-vac drop vs. ling/bane/hydra/infestor for 20 mins.
Though it may be his first Bo3 loss in a year, I do think in a Bo7 Serral could figure it out. ...Really, that'd be the series these players deserved.
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I'd love to be a fly on the wall for Maru & Inno's plane ride home though...
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Italy3963 Posts
On March 02 2019 12:20 Astrapto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 11:46 Xain0n wrote:
Serral's last game against Inno was someway perplexing, he was in a very good position and seemed too passive and indecisive.
My theory is that Innovation lost in this group so badly because he was specifically practicing to take Serral out, which he managed to do. In both of those 40+ min. games Inno won, he had the same late-game strategy: siege up w/ air at the third for 20 mins while wreaking havoc with nukes & bio around the map. I think Serral coulda/shoulda tried to bust the turtle rather than letting his attention keep getting split. + Show Spoiler +The broods/corruptors were circling around uselessly, & the libs/vikings were just sitting idle, while we just watched ghost/medi-vac drop vs. ling/bane/hydra/infestor for 20 mins. Though it may be his first Bo3 loss in a year, I do think in a Bo7 Serral could figure it out. ...Really, that'd be the series these players deserved.
Hahah I do not think that would be worth so much money, not really how it went; however, Serral's strat was inefficient.
I agree Serral could probably figure it out, he'd have lost both a bo3 and a bo5 at HSC but he took the series and the trophy in the end; his attitude during those last games was what surprised me.
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Canada8989 Posts
On March 02 2019 13:01 herwo3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 12:18 herwo2 wrote:On March 02 2019 10:45 herwo wrote:On March 02 2019 10:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On March 02 2019 09:48 herwo wrote:
now do some calculations and let me know who'd have advanced in this situation. ty who had 1 more series won, soO who won the head-to-head, or uthermal who got outplayed by everyone? uThermal wins the third map against TY. uThermal advances in 2nd place, TY is out in 5th place. nice try moving goal posts, but that's not an argument for uthermal "wins a map;" it's an argument for uthermal winning a specific map, namely beating TY, which won't happen in his wildest dreams: ty is 4-0 against your friend now. anyway, glad the excess weight is off the plane, so we can hopefully have some good starcraft matches instead of overhyped scrappy games from mid-tier players User was temp banned for this post. lol banned for this give me a break you gonna have to ban all ips and email addresses in the world if you want me out for that post boys. see you tomorrow
Your not the first one trying, good luck with that
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On March 02 2019 09:33 DubiousC2 wrote:
So sad to see lack of even racial distribution. Makes for less entertaining tournament.
Terran are getting crushed at IEM. Only 1/8 Terran in WCS EU. And just 2/8 Terran in WCS NA.
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Canada8989 Posts
On March 02 2019 13:13 herwo3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 13:08 Nakajin wrote:On March 02 2019 13:01 herwo3 wrote:On March 02 2019 12:18 herwo2 wrote:On March 02 2019 10:45 herwo wrote:On March 02 2019 10:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On March 02 2019 09:48 herwo wrote:
now do some calculations and let me know who'd have advanced in this situation. ty who had 1 more series won, soO who won the head-to-head, or uthermal who got outplayed by everyone? uThermal wins the third map against TY. uThermal advances in 2nd place, TY is out in 5th place. nice try moving goal posts, but that's not an argument for uthermal "wins a map;" it's an argument for uthermal winning a specific map, namely beating TY, which won't happen in his wildest dreams: ty is 4-0 against your friend now. anyway, glad the excess weight is off the plane, so we can hopefully have some good starcraft matches instead of overhyped scrappy games from mid-tier players User was temp banned for this post. lol banned for this give me a break you gonna have to ban all ips and email addresses in the world if you want me out for that post boys. see you tomorrow Your not the first one trying, good luck with that thanks buddy but I've been doing it since before you had an account here
Congrats you have to much time on your hand
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
On March 02 2019 13:01 herwo3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 12:18 herwo2 wrote:On March 02 2019 10:45 herwo wrote:On March 02 2019 10:38 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:On March 02 2019 09:48 herwo wrote:
now do some calculations and let me know who'd have advanced in this situation. ty who had 1 more series won, soO who won the head-to-head, or uthermal who got outplayed by everyone? uThermal wins the third map against TY. uThermal advances in 2nd place, TY is out in 5th place. nice try moving goal posts, but that's not an argument for uthermal "wins a map;" it's an argument for uthermal winning a specific map, namely beating TY, which won't happen in his wildest dreams: ty is 4-0 against your friend now. anyway, glad the excess weight is off the plane, so we can hopefully have some good starcraft matches instead of overhyped scrappy games from mid-tier players User was temp banned for this post. lol banned for this give me a break you gonna have to ban all ips and email addresses in the world if you want me out for that post boys. see you tomorrow
it was only a 2 day ban, but sadly your time on TL is now forfeit.
the price of idiocy I'm afraid.
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Hoping for Stats vs Serral part 3
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
at least you'd be allowed back, you think this is better? really? you just burned a bridge over what really amounts to nothing.
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Stats v Serral part 3 incoming
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Hoping for a TY vs Serral finals.
Gogo TY!
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really pulling for soo to beat zest and face serral only cause you know we have a better chance of getting the best soo to appear since it wont be a final
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This tournament suggests that there is a problem in TvP.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
And once again Serral has luck on his TvZ in the bracket as he can meet the only Terran in the finals and that only if TY manages to beat Dark and Stats.
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On March 02 2019 13:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 09:33 DubiousC2 wrote:
So sad to see lack of even racial distribution. Makes for less entertaining tournament. Terran are getting crushed at IEM. Only 1/8 Terran in WCS EU. And just 2/8 Terran in WCS NA.
just standard terran stuff, WoL/Hots was no different 
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 02 2019 16:58 skdsk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 13:18 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 02 2019 09:33 DubiousC2 wrote:
So sad to see lack of even racial distribution. Makes for less entertaining tournament. Terran are getting crushed at IEM. Only 1/8 Terran in WCS EU. And just 2/8 Terran in WCS NA. just standard terran stuff, WoL/Hots was no different
uh, no?
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I hope soO shows up in better form today than yesterday, so he can crush that foreigner.
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On March 02 2019 17:59 DBooN wrote:
I hope soO shows up in better form today than yesterday, so he can crush that foreigner.
What the fuck did you just call Zest?
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Let's go soO 1 more game!
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I think not only player is to be blamed, the balancing group should be blamed too for none terran got into ro8
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IM Nestea won multiple GSLs when the balance was vastly more unfavorable to Zerg than it is to Terran right now. For players that are good enough, a shocking level of balance disparity can be overcome. But maybe no one today is as much better than everyone else as Nestea was back then.
I’ll say it’s a smallish sample but it certainly doesn’t look good for Terran now.
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Maru overcame balance issues by proxying every game. Just because a player is gosu doesn't make the game properly balanced.
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On March 03 2019 01:20 machinus wrote:
Maru overcame balance issues by proxying every game. Just because a player is gosu doesn't make the game properly balanced.
I totally agree with you, that the balancing group have been balancing terran just too much since byun's wcs championship, which is the only two terran winning the grand finals
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Italy3963 Posts
Maru is not gosu because of his proxying skills. They were his bane at BlizzCon, in the end!
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On March 03 2019 01:31 Xain0n wrote:
Maru is not gosu because of his proxying skills. They were his bane at BlizzCon, in the end!
I didn't say that.
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On March 02 2019 19:09 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 17:59 DBooN wrote:
I hope soO shows up in better form today than yesterday, so he can crush that foreigner. What the fuck did you just call Zest?
He called Zest something that describes his skill level quite accurately
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Russian Federation171 Posts
BYE BYE Serral fanboys see ya later ahahahahahahhahaa
and man I am so pissed with Pig just as pissed as I was with Kaelaris on Blizzcon
get rekt now, get rekt all of ya, fanboys
User was warned for this post.
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history made, the reign falls, the one and the only runner-up won another big fight to his way to the second place
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Italy3963 Posts
On March 03 2019 02:51 EEk1TwEEk wrote:
BYE BYE Serral fanboys see ya later ahahahahahahhahaa
and man I am so pissed with Pig just as pissed as I was with Kaelaris on Blizzcon
get rekt now, get rekt all of ya, fanboys
Aah, I see. Another mature guy definitely not hating Serral!
You'd better support the players you like instead of making this kind of posts.
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I think this top 4 is well deserved. Everybody can fight for the best "second best player of all time" title
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On March 03 2019 05:13 midhigh wrote:
I think this top 4 is well deserved. Everybody can fight for the best "second best player of all time" title
who's the best?
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On March 03 2019 00:15 General_Winter wrote:
IM Nestea won multiple GSLs when the balance was vastly more unfavorable to Zerg than it is to Terran right now. For players that are good enough, a shocking level of balance disparity can be overcome. But maybe no one today is as much better than everyone else as Nestea was back then.
I’ll say it’s a smallish sample but it certainly doesn’t look good for Terran now.
You can't compare the 2010/2011 era with today. Back then, the game was not as figured out as it is today, and the mechanical skill of all players was vastly inferior to the one today. The game has evolved into a monstrosity where players are so good and every situation is so figured out that a smallest mistake can cost you the game, while in NesTea's time there was a lot more potential for comebacks and the mistakes were not as punishing. NesTea won the games not by mechanics, but by outthinking his opponents, but today, with the game being a lot more fast paced, you need extremely good mechanics just to have a fighting chance.
And on the Maru note, he won as much last year because of proxying, and he did the proxies because Terran could not go toe to toe with the Protoss in a standard macro game. He overcame that with all ins, but that doesn't mean the matchup was balanced. Also, Terran players have a tough time in weekend toruneys like IEAM and WCS, because to play Terran on the highest level, one needs a lot more preparation, because the smallest mistake in any situation can be game-ending, so Terrans need to practice the perfect response for every situation (the most notable example of this is holding all ins as Terran, if your response isn't PERFECT, you die, or at least take too much damage).
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On March 02 2019 09:23 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2019 09:03 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On March 02 2019 08:40 BerserkSword wrote:
i feel like stats is the only guy there who can make serral bleed Naw. soO and TY have a better chance imo. soO for just having incredible ZvZ that can match Serral and TY for being a Terran with a huge arsenal to throw at him. Seral vs TY is the best finals possible. Dark or Stats will likely ruin that though. soO has an nice ZvZ but Serral is a completely different beast....i think soO would get eviscerated. Serral has already dismantled the premier Zergs in Dark and Rogue en route to his GSL vs the WCS finals i dont think soO is as good as they are at this level. TY is interesting but recently he can barely hang with the Dark's and Rogue's....there is nothing that makes me think he can beat Serral. meanwhile Stats met him in the GSL vs world and WCS finals and took games off of him
the thing is i actually agreed with you, because soo had an awful 2018 and was never the same after his crushing loss to rogue in 2017 blizzcon finals. i didn't have much hope for him at all. was just so awesome to see him take a close series off serral.
but i'm afraid he is going to choke and/or get protossed out
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On March 03 2019 05:49 K5 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2019 00:15 General_Winter wrote:
IM Nestea won multiple GSLs when the balance was vastly more unfavorable to Zerg than it is to Terran right now. For players that are good enough, a shocking level of balance disparity can be overcome. But maybe no one today is as much better than everyone else as Nestea was back then.
I’ll say it’s a smallish sample but it certainly doesn’t look good for Terran now. You can't compare the 2010/2011 era with today. Back then, the game was not as figured out as it is today, and the mechanical skill of all players was vastly inferior to the one today. The game has evolved into a monstrosity where players are so good and every situation is so figured out that a smallest mistake can cost you the game, while in NesTea's time there was a lot more potential for comebacks and the mistakes were not as punishing. NesTea won the games not by mechanics, but by outthinking his opponents, but today, with the game being a lot more fast paced, you need extremely good mechanics just to have a fighting chance. And on the Maru note, he won as much last year because of proxying, and he did the proxies because Terran could not go toe to toe with the Protoss in a standard macro game. He overcame that with all ins, but that doesn't mean the matchup was balanced. Also, Terran players have a tough time in weekend toruneys like IEAM and WCS, because to play Terran on the highest level, one needs a lot more preparation, because the smallest mistake in any situation can be game-ending, so Terrans need to practice the perfect response for every situation (the most notable example of this is holding all ins as Terran, if your response isn't PERFECT, you die, or at least take too much damage).
Blizzard has been trying to fix this "late game" crisis since the beginning of SC2 when they completely nerfed siege tanks and never brought them back. The development team designed the game "for esports" which means instead of making it balanced and even (like BW), they made it fast. But that wasn't enough speed for Blizzard, so they start the game with huge mineral income now to shorten the window of time where a race which relies on tier 1 and 2 units can succeed. Terran has always had to use harassment and timing attacks to win before losing to the tier 3 threats of Zerg and Protoss that it can't match.
But they keep removing all these attacks, even though they are not willing to make Tier 3 units as powerful as those in the other races. Fast Barracks, SCV health, Pre-Igniter damage, Reapers, and Cyclones (they still don't know what to do with Cyclones), to name a few, all got changed because a few players (or even only one player) used them too effectively. But Terrans didn't win with Thors and Battlecruisers instead; they lost until they could find the next abusive Tier 1 strategy or fast timing attack. Currently this means building one to three proxy Barracks in 50% of games, because Terran does not have any better choices for winning. The game has been pushed to be so fast that "late game" units show up at 8 minutes, at which point Terran has to 1) have godlike multitasking and speed to survive or 2) accept strategic loss. Terran tactics are based on defense, which was ok in Brood War where holding territory had great value, and control was so complex that bad unit AI allowed defense to be good. But SC2 is too fast for defense. Unit concentration and speed mean that defensive tactics are just weaker than other tactics like warping on the front line, or building units with 6 (or 7...) armor to lead attacks. Terran players build more bunkers outside hatcheries than they do in their own bases because SC2 is designed to only reward offense.
Katowice is only one tournament, but it is hard to see TY playing perfect 400 APM triple-harassment and being ahead in workers all game and still lose.
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On March 03 2019 06:56 machinus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2019 05:49 K5 wrote:On March 03 2019 00:15 General_Winter wrote:
IM Nestea won multiple GSLs when the balance was vastly more unfavorable to Zerg than it is to Terran right now. For players that are good enough, a shocking level of balance disparity can be overcome. But maybe no one today is as much better than everyone else as Nestea was back then.
I’ll say it’s a smallish sample but it certainly doesn’t look good for Terran now. You can't compare the 2010/2011 era with today. Back then, the game was not as figured out as it is today, and the mechanical skill of all players was vastly inferior to the one today. The game has evolved into a monstrosity where players are so good and every situation is so figured out that a smallest mistake can cost you the game, while in NesTea's time there was a lot more potential for comebacks and the mistakes were not as punishing. NesTea won the games not by mechanics, but by outthinking his opponents, but today, with the game being a lot more fast paced, you need extremely good mechanics just to have a fighting chance. And on the Maru note, he won as much last year because of proxying, and he did the proxies because Terran could not go toe to toe with the Protoss in a standard macro game. He overcame that with all ins, but that doesn't mean the matchup was balanced. Also, Terran players have a tough time in weekend toruneys like IEAM and WCS, because to play Terran on the highest level, one needs a lot more preparation, because the smallest mistake in any situation can be game-ending, so Terrans need to practice the perfect response for every situation (the most notable example of this is holding all ins as Terran, if your response isn't PERFECT, you die, or at least take too much damage). Blizzard has been trying to fix this "late game" crisis since the beginning of SC2 when they completely nerfed siege tanks and never brought them back. The development team designed the game "for esports" which means instead of making it balanced and even (like BW), they made it fast. But that wasn't enough speed for Blizzard, so they start the game with huge mineral income now to shorten the window of time where a race which relies on tier 1 and 2 units can succeed. Terran has always had to use harassment and timing attacks to win before losing to the tier 3 threats of Zerg and Protoss that it can't match. But they keep removing all these attacks, even though they are not willing to make Tier 3 units as powerful as those in the other races. Fast Barracks, SCV health, Pre-Igniter damage, Reapers, and Cyclones (they still don't know what to do with Cyclones), to name a few, all got changed because a few players (or even only one player) used them too effectively. But Terrans didn't win with Thors and Battlecruisers instead; they lost until they could find the next abusive Tier 1 strategy or fast timing attack. Currently this means building one to three proxy Barracks in 50% of games, because Terran does not have any better choices for winning. The game has been pushed to be so fast that "late game" units show up at 8 minutes, at which point Terran has to 1) have godlike multitasking and speed to survive or 2) accept strategic loss. Terran tactics are based on defense, which was ok in Brood War where holding territory had great value, and control was so complex that bad unit AI allowed defense to be good. But SC2 is too fast for defense. Unit concentration and speed mean that defensive tactics are just weaker than other tactics like warping on the front line, or building units with 6 (or 7...) armor to lead attacks. Terran players build more bunkers outside hatcheries than they do in their own bases because SC2 is designed to only reward offense. Katowice is only one tournament, but it is hard to see TY playing perfect 400 APM triple-harassment and being ahead in workers all game and still lose.
Yep.
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EPT
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/iem/katowice2019/iemkatowice2019banner.jpg)
Serral lived up to his Global Champion billing in Group C, conquering the 'group of death' to claim first place. However, the other two advancing players from the group were anything but the usual suspects, with 
