EPTSC2 esports team members included in Blizzard layoffs - Pa…
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Vandroiy
11 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17651 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12472 Posts
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LuckyGnomTV
Russian Federation367 Posts
During all those years LoL became only bigger, DotA became only bigger, CSGO became bigger, FIFA still at the same place where it was and what happened with SC2 - it only degraded. Not sad at all, people didn't do their job well, it led to company losing money - people got fired. | ||
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Rob-Zero
Germany460 Posts
On February 14 2019 20:01 LuckyGnomTV wrote: I am a guy who saw SC2 scene transformations from it's close beta to current moment and I am surprised about people here saying: "wow, so sad blizz fired so many people". Why is it sad? SC2 is in terrible shape, it is alive only because it is the only one RTS on a market. Imagine if SC2 had an opponent like LoL has in DotA2. During all those years LoL became only bigger, DotA became only bigger, CSGO became bigger, FIFA still at the same place where it was and what happened with SC2 - it only degraded. Not sad at all, people didn't do their job well, it led to company losing money - people got fired. Dude, where have you been in 2018? Sc2 was/is growing since then. So maybe their work was not all that bad. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
On February 14 2019 19:06 TT1 wrote: Activision's stock dropped from 83.19$ on Sept. 24 2018 to 44.57$ (today), yikes. We're entering a new era in the gaming industry.. and sadly RTS games are most likely a dying breed. I still remember the days of when guys like IdrA were pulling 15k-20k viewers on Twitch.. but the financial benefits weren't a fraction of what they are now, the streaming industry was still in its infancy. It's no secret that gamers and viewers are into team games and FPS' these days (it's more so just to be a part of w/e is currently hot, ppl enjoy being a part of a large community). Activision's stock decline in the past few months can largely be attributed to the Fortnite craze. We're starting to see how much power big name streamers have in the gaming industry (it even extends to athletes/celebs), Fortnite really only blew up due to their partnerships with streamers. They're the main sellers/marketers. Back when i played SC2 we didn't have a tourney circuit sponsored by Blizzard. SC2 was the biggest esport, we didn't really have any competition so there was no need for Blizzard to step in and take control of the tournament scene. As time went on and SC2 started getting dropped from events in favor of other titles (this is when MOBAs began to rise), Blizzard was left no choice but to step in and take control of the scene. They no longer had the luxury of having esports companies create SC2 content for them, they had to take it upon themselves to create that content. A lot of companies today are bypassing this entire process, streaming is changing the gaming landscape and the big name streamers are providing gaming companies w/ their player base (the maturing of the Gen Z pop also plays a big role). The gaming model today is basically: fun play-ability/view-ability (team game/fps etc.), F2P and generate revenue from mainly micro-transactions. Companies want big streamers to market their game and they make it F2P to create a gaming frenzy. Players get attached to the game, they stream it because that's what all the cool streamers and their friends are doing.. and voila, you have yourself a thriving gaming community. It really is a cost efficient business model.. but obviously the product has to be somewhat good too  .Blizzard/Activision is a business and trends in the gaming industry are shifting elsewhere, sadly at the end of the day it's just not logical for them to keep dumping money into something that isn't profitable. That's the reality of today's gaming landscape and it really does suck. I don't think we're gonna see a shift from twitchtv meme frenzy games to quality games any time soon. Streamers and viewers are constantly going to go from 1 flavor of the month game to another.. APEX legends seems to be the next big game :[. Sad times for the people who've gotten laid off, i wish them all the best of luck. I'm still not sure about this. SC2 is as stable as an esport title can get, and slowly growing again for over a year now. Yes, LoL, Dota and CS are bigger. But what else is as big and stable at the same time? What happened with PubG? What's about that weird tank game? Call of Duty? Rocket league? SC2 still is one of the biggest esports with a massive stable playerbase and also stable viewership. SC2 did not dry out, it just got outpaced, but is still able to run. And is RTS a drying genre? I don't know. I'm highly confident that a Warcraft 4 would easily sell millions. A new Age of Empires would probably veeery successful as well. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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digmouse
China6331 Posts
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
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TT1
Canada10045 Posts
On February 14 2019 21:45 fronkschnonk wrote: I'm still not sure about this. SC2 is as stable as an esport title can get, and slowly growing again for over a year now. Yes, LoL, Dota and CS are bigger. But what else is as big and stable at the same time? What happened with PubG? What's about that weird tank game? Call of Duty? Rocket league? SC2 still is one of the biggest esports with a massive stable playerbase and also stable viewership. SC2 did not dry out, it just got outpaced, but is still able to run. And is RTS a drying genre? I don't know. I'm highly confident that a Warcraft 4 would easily sell millions. A new Age of Empires would probably veeery successful as well. The games you mention, like PubG, are battle royale games. I think PubG is actually a good game, it sorta has the same vibe that BW has in Korea (for their own genre) because Koreans recognize quality/competitive games. That said, PubG lost out to Fortnite in the west simply because the casual player base enjoyed the play-ability of Fortnite over PubG. Simply put, Epic Games outsmarted their rivals by having a better business model. They targeted the casual viewer base (by making a fun cartoon-ish game) and got them to actually play the game way more actively, on top of watching it on twitch (i touched on these points in my previous post). That said, i don't think Fortnite is all that great of a game, so i don't really see them having a long life span. Games in the same genre will follow their model and they'll eventually out-do them in some way (by having a more polished product/better gameplay etc). Streamers will move over to a better product and the viewers will follow suit, that market is largely controlled by the streamers. There's no real tourney scene in Fortnite so there's nothing there to hold the competitive player base in place once people move over to a new game (they also have other issues, like not having a way for lesser known players to grind their way to recognition). SC2 has managed to survive for a long time because they have a foothold in the RTS market (BW is still going strong in Korea 20 years after its release). Making a tourney circuit creates a sustainable means of income for the players (so they stick around and play the game professionally) and it creates story lines for the fan base, they grow an attachment to the players and thus become loyal supporters of the game. You have to remember tho, the current economics of SC2 is solely possible due to Blizzard's funding.. which i assume is a substantial sum. If that were ever to go away (and that decision is based on revenue/profitability for Blizzard) players would have a really tough time playing the game full time. You can imagine the negative effect it'd have on the scene. Also, i said RTS is most likely a dying breed because they're hard games to get into, it's much easier to just learn and follow a FPS game. Our age group is getting older, like it or not this means people have less time to spend on their computers. The gaming industry is starting to fall into the hands of Gen Z, they're the ones setting trends/deciding what's popular or not. It's easy to tell what type of games they're into . If War4 were to come out we'd be cycling through the same player base most likely, it's tough to get new blood into RTS games (mainly due to the extreme competitive nature of 1v1 games, there's other reasons tho). This is a problem that Korea currently has with BW, they're trying to figure out what comes next after FlaSh etc. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
I won't compare SC2 numbers with easy to get into casual games like Fortnite and League, but look at games like DotA 2. They've managed to retain hundreds of thousands to millions of players and viewers through the years. Game design had alot to do with that, but there was something to be said when a formerly buy-to-play game that advertised itself as the most competitive esport had such inferior spectating tools and no public live game watching options compared to free to play games. In my opinion, in order to see how 'healthy' and 'big' an esports scene is, just imagine what would happen if the parent company were to cut all funding to tourney organisers. At this point, and call me a pessimist if you will, I sincerely believe that the only reason Kot(d)ick hasn't axed the SC2 esports funding yet is because the community backlash would lose them more money in the long term. | ||
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Khalimaroth
France71 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12042 Posts
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On February 14 2019 23:52 Khalimaroth wrote: The greed of the stockholder has no limit... The stocks have just lost 50% of their value in the last year. Obviously the leadership is forced to something, when they have just cut the money of their stockholders in half. Laying off major parts of your non developing teams might be the wrong way of "doing something". We will see in the future. That laying off people is so easy in the US is not the fault of Activision. And with the current unemployment rate, these people should be able to find another job very soon. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Odoakar
Croatia1837 Posts
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narbsncharbs
34 Posts
On February 15 2019 03:00 andrewlt wrote: The reality of a marketing/sales job is if you are selling less product than your salary, you're going to get laid off eventually. Esports has traditionally been a money sink. I think the industry is realizing that it doesn't increase sales compared to the investments made to it for all but the handful of games at the top. Viewership doesn't really do anything unless it translates to profits. Esports(funded by the developer of the video game that is) does have its advantages in that if you can lure gamers in with the idea that they can become a progamer and keep them playing your game long enough, the company will have an easier time getting them to purchase the next title in the franchise or whatever new IP/games the company decides. The comapny will also have to worry less about their customers jumping ship to another developer's game. Esports is used as a vehicle to develop brand loyalty imo. | ||
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narbsncharbs
34 Posts
On February 14 2019 20:01 LuckyGnomTV wrote: I am a guy who saw SC2 scene transformations from it's close beta to current moment and I am surprised about people here saying: "wow, so sad blizz fired so many people". Why is it sad? SC2 is in terrible shape, it is alive only because it is the only one RTS on a market. Imagine if SC2 had an opponent like LoL has in DotA2. During all those years LoL became only bigger, DotA became only bigger, CSGO became bigger, FIFA still at the same place where it was and what happened with SC2 - it only degraded. Not sad at all, people didn't do their job well, it led to company losing money - people got fired. This is one of the most intelligent statements to ever be posted on this website, cheers. Actiblizz could have done infinitely better with sc2. The problem is though that many people will look at this close mindedly and assume you are attacking sc2. It's a shame. Actiblizz starved their customer base and milked their IPs for so long that their customerbase gets so fed up when actiblizz does dumb stuff, justifiably so. Actiblizz needs to be pumping out new sequels to their franchises every 2 years. Hell, they do a new call of duty game every year and it makes well over a billion dollars every time. Imagine if they properly nourished IPs like diablo/sc/wc. I'd buy it up. In general, The majority of gamers get bored of a game between 1-2 years, actiblizz needs to have news ones ready to roll out for their IPs when this happens. They are essentially leaving ATON of money on the table in short term($$) AND long term(customer loyalty) since trying to milk IPs for as long as possible puts your franchise at risk of becoming stale resulting customers looking at alternatives from other companies. I wouldn't be looking at playing the new warhammer if sc3 was in front of me or if sc2 had a new expansion every year with new additional units to use on ladder. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On February 14 2019 22:20 digmouse wrote: SC2 as an esport is actually on the rise again since going F2P, especially in China. Problem is we have no idea about how much that matters for the higher ups at ATVI. From what I can gather and predict, the Starcraft franchise as a whole is no longer on the radar of the higher ups at all. I would be shocked if we ever see another Starcraft game, except maybe a mobile one. | ||
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