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Balance Mod Update Oct 23, 2018

Forum Index > SC2 General
88 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
October 29 2018 02:41 GMT
#1
I was surprised to see nobody made a thread for this new update, though it is fairly small compared to the previous ones.

From starcraft2.com

"Hey everyone,

Thanks for testing out the most recent balance changes, and for your continued helpful feedback. After reading over the discussions, we’d like to make a few more changes to the testing matchmaking queue.


Terran

Cyclone - Attack-moving Cyclones will stop at 7 range instead of 5 range when Locked on to an enemy target.
Previously, when an attack-moving Cyclone would Lock On to an enemy target, the Cyclone would continue to move toward its target until it was 5 range away. This was due to its weapon having 5 range but the Lock On ability having 7 range. As a result, Cyclones would put themselves in danger against 6-range opponents such as Immortals and Ravagers. After this change, the Cyclone will now behave like other units—stopping at maximum effective range when given an attack-move order.

Medivac -"High Capacity Fuel Tanks" upgrade name changed to "Rapid Reignition System".
Since the effects of this upgrade are changing, we’re going to update its name to better capture its new functionality. We also want to take the time to clarify its new functionality:

- A Medivac without any upgrades can boost for 5.71, seconds with 8.57 seconds of downtime (40% uptime).
- A Medivac with the old “High Capacity Fuel Tanks” upgrade could boost for 8.57 seconds with 5.71 seconds of downtime (60% uptime).
- A Medivac with the new “Rapid Reignition System” upgrade will be able to boost for 5.71 seconds with 3.57 seconds of downtime (62% uptime).

We believe this new upgrade will be more attractive and promote multi-tasking-based drop play more than the previous one did.


Protoss

Warp Prism - Pick-up range reverted from 5 to 6.

After reviewing feedback, we have decided to revert the pick-up range from 5 to 6 as we’d like for all races to feel like they have strong options out of the gate with the new patch.


Countdown Timer

We like the addition of the new countdown timer because it can provide players with a smoother transition from the loading screen to the start of a match. However, we’ve discovered some issues with the feature and would like to resolve them before pushing this countdown timer live. We’ll be removing the countdown timer from the testing matchmaking queue for now, but we plan to reintroduce it at a later date.


Upcoming changes

We’re also planning to introduce two additional changes in the new season, but they require code modifications, so they cannot be directly added to the balance testing mod. We plan to introduce the following changes in an upcoming post-Blizzcon patch:

SCV - SCV single-click selection priority will now be higher than the buildings they are constructing

During intense Bunker rushes, the ability for the Bunkers to be completed can often mean the difference between success and failure. The defender is highly incentivized to destroy the SCVs building the Bunkers, but it’s currently difficult to do so, partially because buildings under construction can block the ability to click on the SCV building it. We don’t believe this interaction should be a core skill-testing component of StarCraft, so we’ll be making a change that allows SCVs to be more easily clicked while constructing structures.

At the same time, we’re slightly concerned about the effect of this change on early-game SCV harass (such as when a Terran player is building a Command Center at their natural expansion), so we’ll be keeping a close eye on this change.

Barracks, Factory, Starport - Tech Lab - If a player tries to lift a structure when there is an upgrade being researched in an attached Tech Lab, the player will not be able to do so and will receive a red text error message.
This change prevents players from accidently cancelling an upgrade while attempting to lift buildings.

Lastly, in order to prepare for the upcoming changes that will go live with the next ladder season, we will be turning off the balance testing matchmaking queue on October 30th. During this downtime, we will start implementing art changes and resolving any issues or bugs that may come up. Even though the balance testing matchmaking queue will be off, the balance test mod extension mod will still be available for custom games."

Blizzard also handily included an updated list of all previous changes, which is probably a good thing since there's been so many updates. It was getting rather silly trying to remember four announcements worth of changes.

Previous Changes:
+ Show Spoiler +

TERRAN
Widow Mine
- The Drilling Claws upgrade now permanently cloaks Widow Mines when they're burrowed.
- If Drilling Claws is researched, the Widow Mine will have a visual indicator to show that the unit has the upgrade.
Cyclone
- Now requires a Tech Lab to be built at the Factory.
- Health decreased from 180 to 120.
- Movement speed increased from 4.13 to 4.73.
- Unit armor set to 1.
- Supply cost increased from 3 to 4.
- Tornado Blaster weapon changed to the Typhoon Missile Pod weapon:
- Damage changed from 3 (+2 vs Armored) to 18.
- Can target air and ground units.
- Attack rate changed from 0.1 to 0.71.
- Range decreased from 6 to 5.
= Weapon upgrades changed from +1 to +2 to account for the new damage value.
- Lock On ability changed:
Ability can auto-cast.
Can now target ground and flying units and structures.
Damage changed from 160 to 400 damage over 14 seconds.
- Rapid Fire Launchers upgrade removed.
- Added Mag-Field Accelerator upgrade:
- After researching Mag-Field Accelerator upgrade, Lock On will deal 400 (+400 vs Armored) over 14 seconds to ground and flying targets.
Thor
- Armor reduced from 2 to 1.
- Explosive Payload AoE radius reduced from 0.6 to 0.5.
- 250mm Punisher Cannons damage changed from 35 (+15 vs Armored) to 40 (+10 vs Massive).
- 250mm Punisher Cannons weapon speed reduced from 2.14 to 1.79.
Medivac
- "High Capacity Fuel Tanks" upgrade name changed to "Rapid Reignition System."
- " Rapid Reignition System" upgrade will no longer increase duration by 50%. Instead, it will decrease cooldown duration from 14 seconds to 9 seconds.
- Medivacs can now heal units Graviton'd by Phoenix.
Banshee
- Hyperflight Rotors upgrade cost decreased from 200/200 to 150/150.
Raven
- Anti-Armor splash damage reduced from 15 to 0.
- In addition to armor reduction, Anti-Armor Missile will also reduce Protoss shields by 3.
Battlecruiser
- Removed random delay between shots.
- AA damage reduced from 6 to 5.
- Can now move while shooting.
- Yamato Cannon damage reduced from 300 to 240.
Engineering Bay
- Neosteel Frame and Structure Armor upgrades merged. The new upgrade is called Neosteel Armor and will retain the functionality of both upgrades combined. It will cost 150 Minerals/150 Gas and take 100 seconds to research.

ZERG
Creep
- Creep Tumor, Hatchery, Lair, Hive, Nydus Worm
- Time in between creep growth increased from 0.3 to 0.45.
Overlord
- Time between Generate Creep growth periods increased from 0.36 to 0.45.
Queen
- Transfuse restores 75 health and an additional 50 health over 7.14 seconds, down from 125 health instantly.
Zergling
- Unburrow speed reduced from 0.71 to 0.36.
- Unburrow random delay reduced from 0.36 to 0.08.
Roach
- Tunneling Claws no longer increases the health regeneration rate of Roaches from 7 hp/second to 14 hp/second.
- Tunneling Claws cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
Hydralisk
- Unburrow speed reduced from 0.71 to 0.36.
- Unburrow random delay reduced from 0.36 to 0.08.
- Needle Spines attack speed slowed from 0.54 to 0.59.
Infestor
- Infestor unit radius decreased from 0.75 to 0.625.
- Model scale decreased from 0.85 to 0.75.
- Burrowed unit radius now matches the new unborrowed unit radius.
- Infestors can now move through units while burrowed.
- Fungal Growth will no longer allow affected units to Blink, Tactical Jump, or load into transports/buildings.
- Infested Terran cast range increased from 7 to 8.
Ultralisk
- New upgrade added: “Evolve Anabolic Synthesis”
Cost: 150 Minerals/150 Gas/79 Seconds
Increases Ultralisk speed when off creep from 4.13 to 4.55. The Ultralisk on creep will remain the same at 5.36.
If Anabolic Synthesis is researched, the Ultralisk will have a visual indicator to show that the unit has the upgrade.
Nydus Network and Nydus Worm
- Nydus Network cost decreased from 150/200 to 150/150.
- Nydus Worm costs decreased from 100/100 to 50/50.
- Nydus Worm will no longer be invincible when emerging but will have 6 armor.
Burrow/Unburrow
- Burrow and Unburrow have been separated into two distinct keys.
- Burrowed and Unburrowed Zerg unit types will now be on the same tab-select, and both will be selected when double clicking on units.

PROTOSS
Nexus
- Chrono Boost will now display a visual status on the structure.
- Mass Recall renamed to Strategic Recall.
- Strategic Recall radius reduced from 6.5 to 2.5.
- Strategic Recall cooldown reduced from 130 to 85 seconds.
Sentry
- Hallucination energy cost decreased from 100 to 75.
- Guardian Shield radius increased from 4 to 4.5.
High Templar
- Feedback now deals 0.5 damage per point of energy drained, down from 1 damage.
Dark Templar
- Shadow Stride research time reduced from 121 to 100 seconds.
- Shadow Stride cooldown reduced from 21 to 14 seconds.
Robotics Facility
- Cost decreased from 200/100 to 150/100.
Colossus
- Colossus weapon will now have turret tracking.
Disruptor
- Purification Nova changed back to pre-4.0 state. Purification Nova deploys a ball of energy that will detonate after 2 seconds, dealing 155 damage and an additional 55 shield damage to all ground units in its radius.
- Purification Nova no longer detonates on contact with enemy units.
- Purification Nova now sends a threat signal to the opponent on detonation instead of during the launch phase.
Void Ray
- Prismatic Speed reduction from 40% to 25%.
Tempest
- Cost decrease from 300/200 to 250/175.
- Supply cost decreased from 6 to 5.
- HP/Shields reduced from 300/150 to 150/125.
- Move speed increased from 2.63 to 3.5.
- Acceleration increased from 1.49 to 2.8.
Carrier
- Build time decreased from 86 seconds to 64 seconds.
- HP/Shields increased from 250/150 to 300/150.
- Interceptor build time increased from 6 to 11.
- Graviton Catapult upgrade removed from the Fleet Beacon.
- Interceptor release period changed from 0.36 to 0.27.
Mothership
- Strategic Recall name changed to Mass Recall.
- In addition to slowing unit movement speed by 50%, Time Warp will now also reduce unit and structure attack speed by 50%.
Assimilator
- HP/Shields reduced from 450/450 to 300/300.
Shield Battery
- Health and shields reduced from 200/200 to 150/150.
- Shield Battery can now regenerate shields of units Graviton'd by Phoenix.
Gateway
- "Transform to Warp Gate" will now be an auto-cast ability.


As for my thoughts, I would like a bit of clarification from them on what they mean for that SCV change since it's not overly clear. Do they mean that clicking a building bunker or other building will automatically target the SCV first rather than the building? Or do they mean when you click to attack an SCV your units will follow it as it moves around the building rather than attacking the building after the SCV changes corners? The latter option makes way more sense. The former would be a substantial nerf to bunker rushes.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
October 29 2018 09:04 GMT
#2
I am glad about the many quality-of-life changes like the countdown timer (even though it has to be reworked according to Blizzard) and burrow hotkeys, as well as auto-transform for Gateways to Warpgates.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
JAG.war
Profile Joined May 2010
United States76 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-29 09:21:18
October 29 2018 09:19 GMT
#3
Do they mean that clicking a building bunker or other building will automatically target the SCV first rather than the building?


I think this. It's weird for sure, but it eliminates some randomness as right now sometimes the SCV is hidden and can't be clicked. So maybe it's good.
sOs, Parting, MC and JAGW.
winsonsonho
Profile Joined October 2012
Korea (South)143 Posts
October 29 2018 12:58 GMT
#4
So excited to try all these new balance updates properly in the new season.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
October 29 2018 13:11 GMT
#5
I'm kind of confuse on the scv thing, are they saying when you a+click it will attack the scv automaticly and not the building or just that we will now be able to click on the scv constructing even when it's "in" the building?
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17035 Posts
October 29 2018 13:16 GMT
#6
I recall a few users suggesting a compromise that made an upgraded Widow Mine permanently invisible when burrowed. Welp, it has arrived. I hope it stays this way.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
BlackLilium
Profile Joined April 2011
Poland426 Posts
October 29 2018 16:02 GMT
#7
With SCV building a building - I think it is about clicking priority, rather than order priority.

Here is my interpretation:

If there is an SCV sharing pixels with a building under a construction (SCV covers the building, or vice-versa), clicking at that pixel will select the SCV rather than the building. So, it will be a bit easier - on the interface side - to give an order to attack an SCV. But the actual behavior of units, given this or that order, is going to be the same.
[MOD]Economy - Hot Mineral Harvesting
kOrc
Profile Joined July 2018
22 Posts
October 29 2018 16:12 GMT
#8
As for my thoughts, I would like a bit of clarification from them on what they mean for that SCV change since it's not overly clear.


Pretty sure they mean the SCV's selection collider will be placed above the constructing structure's, as opposed to how it is now. Right now, to select/target an SCV, you need to get your mouse on its collider without touching the collider of the constructing building because the building collider is a higher priority, ie only possible when SCV is on the corners (and your screen is rotated the right way).

With this change you will still need mouse accuracy to target-fire constructing SCV's with a ranged unit, but you don't have to wait till they're specifically at the corners.
Siegetank_Dieter1
Profile Joined August 2017
117 Posts
October 29 2018 16:42 GMT
#9
I wonder for how long blizzard will dodge the swarmhosts topic.

I really hope they will include swarmhosts changes to the major patch, this patch is the perfect opportunity. Please don't just ignore it for another whole year.
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2655 Posts
October 29 2018 17:32 GMT
#10
I guess they saw my post about the lock on range bug lol.

I've played a bit with them and you can really feel the change, cyclones become KING of the early game, its pretty amazing.
MrFreeman
Profile Joined January 2015
207 Posts
October 29 2018 18:15 GMT
#11
Seems they are just putting some finalizing touches, glad they've kept it this way, it's a lot of fun.
PS: So units under the effect of fungal can still be recalled, right?
EESCLuna
Profile Joined February 2017
Spain53 Posts
October 29 2018 18:18 GMT
#12
Honestly, this revamps are good for keep the people playing the game but, i remember these days on 2015 when the intro video of LOTV talked about Micro micro micro micro micro.

But, the main problems on balance come from the sensation people have to outmicro like god against compositions that even go further than 1-a: plant and bait.

This kind of sensations make people leave playing. But who cares when i can spend a tonfuck of dollars on skins.
Balance means nerf Protoss
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
October 29 2018 18:51 GMT
#13
On October 30 2018 01:12 kOrc wrote:
Show nested quote +
As for my thoughts, I would like a bit of clarification from them on what they mean for that SCV change since it's not overly clear.


Pretty sure they mean the SCV's selection collider will be placed above the constructing structure's, as opposed to how it is now. Right now, to select/target an SCV, you need to get your mouse on its collider without touching the collider of the constructing building because the building collider is a higher priority, ie only possible when SCV is on the corners (and your screen is rotated the right way).

With this change you will still need mouse accuracy to target-fire constructing SCV's with a ranged unit, but you don't have to wait till they're specifically at the corners.

Ah this makes perfect sense. Thank you. That sounds quite reasonable.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
Agh
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1014 Posts
October 29 2018 20:58 GMT
#14
On October 30 2018 01:42 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
I wonder for how long blizzard will dodge the swarmhosts topic.

I really hope they will include swarmhosts changes to the major patch, this patch is the perfect opportunity. Please don't just ignore it for another whole year.


Blizzard does not and should not balance around low levels of play.
I may appear to be an emotionless sarcastic pos, but just like an onion when you pull off more and more layers you find the exact same thing everytime and you start crying
Siegetank_Dieter1
Profile Joined August 2017
117 Posts
October 29 2018 21:32 GMT
#15
On October 30 2018 05:58 Agh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2018 01:42 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
I wonder for how long blizzard will dodge the swarmhosts topic.

I really hope they will include swarmhosts changes to the major patch, this patch is the perfect opportunity. Please don't just ignore it for another whole year.


Blizzard does not and should not balance around low levels of play.


TY vs Lambo = low level of play ?

Swarmhosts are not a "learn to play issue".
JudeauTV
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany262 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-29 23:09:40
October 29 2018 23:09 GMT
#16
On October 30 2018 01:42 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
I wonder for how long blizzard will dodge the swarmhosts topic.

I really hope they will include swarmhosts changes to the major patch, this patch is the perfect opportunity. Please don't just ignore it for another whole year.


Nobody cares about Swarmhost except avilo and you. They are not an issue in professional play.
People thinking they knew exactly what they want, most of the time have no idea what they can get.
Siegetank_Dieter1
Profile Joined August 2017
117 Posts
October 29 2018 23:50 GMT
#17
On October 30 2018 08:09 JudeauTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2018 01:42 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
I wonder for how long blizzard will dodge the swarmhosts topic.

I really hope they will include swarmhosts changes to the major patch, this patch is the perfect opportunity. Please don't just ignore it for another whole year.


Nobody cares about Swarmhost except avilo and you. They are not an issue in professional play.


That's a really helpful comment my friend. Reality is that Swarmhosts are currently too strong vs mech (and honestly even look strong vs protoss) and that certainly is a problem in the game right now that you can't deny.

You may hate me and avilo etc. but it doesnt change the fact how the unit currently interacts in the game.

Feel free to ignore my words, but atleast take your time to listen to pro players.
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-30 06:16:50
October 30 2018 06:16 GMT
#18
On October 30 2018 08:50 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2018 08:09 JudeauTV wrote:
On October 30 2018 01:42 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
I wonder for how long blizzard will dodge the swarmhosts topic.

I really hope they will include swarmhosts changes to the major patch, this patch is the perfect opportunity. Please don't just ignore it for another whole year.


Nobody cares about Swarmhost except avilo and you. They are not an issue in professional play.


That's a really helpful comment my friend. Reality is that Swarmhosts are currently too strong vs mech (and honestly even look strong vs protoss) and that certainly is a problem in the game right now that you can't deny.

You may hate me and avilo etc. but it doesnt change the fact how the unit currently interacts in the game.

Feel free to ignore my words, but atleast take your time to listen to pro players.


Oh yeah? Immortals feel strong vs mech too and vs Zerg as well. Tanks feel strong vs Protoss and Zerg as well. Does it mean that they should be nerfed? Well Immortals maybe should esoecially with robo cost buff.

Swarmhosts are only problematic for turtling mech players like Avilo. As for Protoss, I feel that with hydra nerf, Zerg needs some strong answers vs Protoss. Are SH this answer? Seems like it. But still using them has downfalls. Like low mobility and looong cooldown. I don't feel there's balance problem with SH. In PvZ it's sth new, and Protoss players needs to adapt. It always takes some time.
Ultima Ratio Regum
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
October 30 2018 06:22 GMT
#19
On October 30 2018 08:09 JudeauTV wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2018 01:42 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote:
I wonder for how long blizzard will dodge the swarmhosts topic.

I really hope they will include swarmhosts changes to the major patch, this patch is the perfect opportunity. Please don't just ignore it for another whole year.


Nobody cares about Swarmhost except avilo and you. They are not an issue in professional play.


Yep. Dismiss and move on. It doesn't even make logical sense how these people think.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
October 30 2018 07:22 GMT
#20
I play mech in every matchup. I agree that swarmhosts are strong vs mech but mech can counter swarmhosts by counterattacking. It is not like vs Carriers where you more or less auto die if they get the numbers up.

That said Swarmhosts should cost more resources, the current price is too low for the benefit they provide.
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