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Serral doubters utterly btfo.
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Yeah it's Serral's finals to lose. The series vs Inno and Dark were not even very competitive. Serral's macro is absolutely insane. Almost every game it looks like a push might do him in, but then the camera pans over to his 360 surround with double the army supply haha
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Watching Serral play, I feel like I understand how non-saviOr fans must have felt during his reign of dominance. It's never very flashy, but somehow in every situation he finds the best play. There's some meta evolution going on, but the army positioning, the constant counterattack threat from Serral have been so on point lately
Here to stay: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/final-edits/102206-here-to-stay
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Stats ruined the dream final. Hopefully he doesn't flip against Serral
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Korea (South)227 Posts
Indeed, no one can doubt Serral now. I wonder how competitive Stats will make it.
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Great to see Serral making it to the finals at least. Don't mind that Maru lost either. It's been fun watching him climb to the top, but I don't want him to win everything. Maybe a poor argument when Serral is in the final, with almost 11k WCS points so far this year, but it's a foreigner vs Korean match, and he's the last one standing.
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I think it is also nice for the foreigner scene, that serral is not just beating the crap out of them but also defeats koreans. Its so nice to have such a good foreigner, even though i am terran only fan :D
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Remember that time when inno was on top of the world, manner muled stats in game one,and then lost the next three games and the series...... Stats is no joke. But serral.....???? Friggin crazy!!!! GO SERRAL!!!!. (has sc2 ever been this much fun???)
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Awesome. Serral is the real deal. Go Serral!
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Serral is better than all Koreans ...imagine that. hehe
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While Serral is unbelievable, Maru seemed very unprepared for Stats tbh (Rogue also against Inno). Like JinAir players don't want to show their playstyle before blizzcon. For me this tournament shows that Serral will be the heavy favourite at Blizzcon, since his standard/regural play is the most solid.
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It's going to be a one-sided final, I predict 4-0 or 4-1 in favor of Serral, cuz Stats said in interview that he just can't beat Zerg and all that in his mind about that matchup is just anxiety. Classic also pointed out in his interview that zerg is overpowered.
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Go Serral! Even if I play Protoss (sorry Stats, gonna have to let you got for once  ), as a foreigner I will support Serral till the end. DO IT! I don't mind if Stats loses, but both of them should go to game 7.
Serral's double pronged-attack vs Dark was really good. That's one of the highlights I liked in Serral vs Dark.
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Stats is still be the best PvZ player.
Him saying that he just cant beat zerg is bullshit
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Zerg overpowered? Classic might want to get his shit together, as i find him traumatized still after his series vs Reynor. Of course he will say that kind of shit. LOL. Innovation took Rogue- the best korean zerg 3:1, just to loose in the same matchup to Serral 0:3. It's not race that is overpowered. Serral is.
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On August 04 2018 23:09 Fango wrote:
Stats ruined the dream final. Hopefully he doesn't flip against Serral
Incorrect, Serral did.
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On August 05 2018 00:35 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 23:09 Fango wrote:
Stats ruined the dream final. Hopefully he doesn't flip against Serral Incorrect, Serral did.
What are u even talking? everyone wanted to see maru vs serral
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Well, we do have a chance to see a game of Serral vs Maru in the BO9 team match, I guess.
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I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru.
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On August 05 2018 00:50 MKStyles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 00:35 Cricketer12 wrote:On August 04 2018 23:09 Fango wrote:
Stats ruined the dream final. Hopefully he doesn't flip against Serral Incorrect, Serral did. What are u even talking? everyone wanted to see maru vs serral
Chads want Stats v Dark
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I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
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I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got.
Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there.
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On August 05 2018 01:17 KR_4EVR wrote:
I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
I think they do know. As you correctly pointed out, Inno was doing exactly that. I think Serral upped the number of units he uses for runbys to counter this. He was sending like 30+ lings at times!! That's a crazy amount. And terran players rely on reinforcements. So that investment of 30+ lings to kill a group of reinforcements leaves a terran main army to make a game ending push on its own; not gonna happen. So I don't think it's that these players aren't prepared well, it's just that Serral knows how to runby effectively, even when they are leaving units at home. I'm pretty sure Inno didn't close the depot because he was confident he was leaving enough behind and closing/reopening the depot is a hassle.
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Wow, Serral has me impressed.
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Plugging for Stats, because no one else does and he's an absolute monster.
I was whooping with excitement when Stats Crushed Maru game 3. My favorite part was seeing Maru's face when his army kept getting tagged. He was like, "Ah crap, I'm in a corner, and I can't do anything because Stats is my dad."
Feels good.
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On August 05 2018 01:17 KR_4EVR wrote:
I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
...
trust me koreans know serral and they know his style, its just that basicly serrals strongest play is STANDARD he is so amazing just playing the game so its basicly impossible to prepare for him other then just playing standard ... what people forget is, if u try the same runby it wont work, but serral is good in focusing the enemy on another area while doing it, he just has the better multitask
On August 05 2018 03:39 ThunderJunk wrote:
Plugging for Stats, because no one else does and he's an absolute monster.
I was whooping with excitement when Stats Crushed Maru game 3. My favorite part was seeing Maru's face when his army kept getting tagged. He was like, "Ah crap, I'm in a corner, and I can't do anything because Stats is my dad."
Feels good.
1 week ago stats got 0-3 scrubbed by showtime, no idea what he did to get this good now, but i still feel he is the HUGE underdog in the final
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On August 05 2018 00:05 TheWildShooter wrote:
It's going to be a one-sided final, I predict 4-0 or 4-1 in favor of Serral, cuz Stats said in interview that he just can't beat Zerg and all that in his mind about that matchup is just anxiety. Classic also pointed out in his interview that zerg is overpowered.
I think Stats might have been trolling his PvZ seems real solid to me. Also take into account that ZvP is Serrals best match up as well. Should make for a great finals
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On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there.
Serral vs Inno was a very bad play by Inno, He made frequently mistakes in that series, so your point could be right.
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On August 05 2018 01:17 KR_4EVR wrote:
I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
most good players do this, both the runbys and the defense of runbys
knowing to do it is rarely the issue - it's multitasking and organization.
serral has extremely high skill when it comes to memory and organization of what is happening in the game. not only remembering what is where, but knowing WHEN it is an appropriate time to go to a certain place on the map. he manages to sequence the time to do everything perfectly in his mind.
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On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there.
Maybe. Or maybe Serral's just that good.
Koreans underestimating foreigners was huge in 2016, I dunno how huge it would be now.
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On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there.
INno played basically the same way against Rogue though.
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On August 05 2018 03:39 ThunderJunk wrote:
Plugging for Stats, because no one else does and he's an absolute monster.
I was whooping with excitement when Stats Crushed Maru game 3. My favorite part was seeing Maru's face when his army kept getting tagged. He was like, "Ah crap, I'm in a corner, and I can't do anything because Stats is my dad."
Feels good.
bitch pls
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On August 05 2018 04:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there. INno played basically the same way against Rogue though.
And Serral exploited it perfectly. Right down to counterattacking when INno rallies his units onto a lowered depot.
I believe Rogue could have done the same with preperation. But he only shows up like that every other event.
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On August 05 2018 03:39 ThunderJunk wrote:
Plugging for Stats, because no one else does and he's an absolute monster.
I was whooping with excitement when Stats Crushed Maru game 3. My favorite part was seeing Maru's face when his army kept getting tagged. He was like, "Ah crap, I'm in a corner, and I can't do anything because Stats is my dad."
Feels good.
Online Stats sucks, offline Stats rocks. It's an established truth.
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Neeb already conquered Korea. Don't worry INno
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On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there.
ye sure, cuz serral plays such a different style.
He plays 100% bread and butter zerg.
he just outskilled them today. stop trying to find excuses. that doesn't mean he is clear cut better than them, but he clearly plays on top korean level.
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I love this, hope Serral wins :D
Would have liked to see Maru vs Serral though.
Also stop finding excuses please, Serral clearly proofed he can compete with top koreans, if you like it or not.
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Honestly when serral plays I love watching the minimap, hes in a class of his own, just thinking about playing him is terrifying, ok not sure how I would ever be able to keep up with him.
Sometimes you watch people play and your like, yeah nice build or good macro, but serral is doing things that I would probably never be able to do.
Maru is the same when hes got his agro down. I love being back in the scene, everyone is so much stronger and cleaner in their play it's really a great time to be watching starcraft. Super excited to see who wins.
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It doesnt matter what your name is
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Is the team matches in GSL vs The World played first tomorrow?
According to Liquipedia, the final match between Serral and Stats starts at 11:30 CEST, but the broadcast starts at 08:00. I just want to make sure I don't oversleep and miss the final!
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On August 05 2018 05:24 Conut wrote:
Honestly when serral plays I love watching the minimap, hes in a class of his own, just thinking about playing him is terrifying, ok not sure how I would ever be able to keep up with him.
This.
Maybe it´s the same with other players, but with Serral it was the first time for me that i noticed how much shit was going on on the minimap. Simply amazing this guy.
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I have feeling that it will be a 4-3 result in either direction.
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On August 05 2018 00:56 Semikolon wrote:
Well, we do have a chance to see a game of Serral vs Maru in the BO9 team match, I guess.
Honestly, a Serral all-kill would make me as giddy as a Korean progamer trying to open a bottle of Champers.
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On August 05 2018 06:18 DSK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 00:56 Semikolon wrote:
Well, we do have a chance to see a game of Serral vs Maru in the BO9 team match, I guess. Honestly, a Serral all-kill would make me as giddy as a Korean progamer trying to open a bottle of Champers.
it's not all-kill format though
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It so naive to belive koreans pro not studied serral, when they play 100 000$ tourny.
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great event so far. great commentary. great games. great atmosphere.
david kim and dustin browder should be proud of what they've created.
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On August 05 2018 06:18 DSK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 00:56 Semikolon wrote:
Well, we do have a chance to see a game of Serral vs Maru in the BO9 team match, I guess. Honestly, a Serral all-kill would make me as giddy as a Korean progamer trying to open a bottle of Champers.
Serral and Maru are forced ace match
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I don't want to be "that guy" but would it be fair to say that Serral is more in his element with this WCS style tournament with back to back games within a 3 day window? Korean GSL format gives way more prep time between matches (at least a week in advance). (edit: I say this as it's pretty obvious the games (with a few exceptions) haven't been great and very one sided.)
I'm not doubting his ability, but I would still like to see how he holds up in the regular GSL format.
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ye sure, cuz serral plays such a different style.
He plays 100% bread and butter zerg.
he just outskilled them today. stop trying to find excuses. that doesn't mean he is clear cut better than them, but he clearly plays on top korean level.
No it's not. I watched many Koreans stream right before GSL vs World. They simply seemed to have 0 aware of foreigners. They really underestimated Serral before starting tournament. Predicting that he's gonna be knocked out easily in ro8. And when you see the game and Serral's interview, he actually used his opponents weakness, and used really well the map property like Redshift vs Dark. When I watched Dark's stream, he always veto Redshift. And Dark and INnoVation simply didn't understand what Serral is good at. It was showed that even Serral has weakness in multi pronged attack vs terran. It was revealed vs Kela and previous WCS events. And INnoVation didn't try to use it at all.
And even when Neeb won Kespa Cup 2016, the most game was actually look like standard pure macro game to beat top Koreans. People say Neeb won cuz of his pvp but when you look at, he beated the best Korean protoss at that time Stats 3-1, just like Serral beated Dark 3-1 today. And several other great Korea protoss Zest and Trap as well. Neeb simply stomped those 3 top tier Korean protoss 9-1 which was insane.
And Koreans started to aware that Neeb was same level with top Koreans, real deal and studied him before blizzon start.
And now Koreans know that Serral is something else among foreigners, and he's same level with top Koreans. It doesn't matter even if Serral loses the final vs Stats tomorrow. He proved enough. All Koreans in blizzcon gonna study Serral and this will be the real test for Serral about whether he is even better than Neeb 2016 or not.
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Serral FTW. Very impressive decision making during his games today. Always picking the right option to win the game.
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Stats is one of my favourite players, but...Serral. This kid is an absolute monster, I don't think he can be stopped. Feels kind of bad to root against Stats because he's my main man and I wish him all the best, but this is a Serral kind of day.
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Canada2764 Posts
On August 05 2018 04:11 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there. Maybe. Or maybe Serral's just that good. Koreans underestimating foreigners was huge in 2016, I dunno how huge it would be now.
Trust me, koreans don't underestimate Serral. Neeb came out of literally nowhere and 2016 was also a very chaotic domestic year for koreans, but I think people do overrate that 2016 Kespa Cup run. It was essentially all PvP, which Neeb was admittedly very good at, but Serral is a three-dimensional player with more depth than I ever expected.
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Serral still looking excellent. I was worried about the ZvZ but Scarlett's ZvZ looked better than Dark's, somehow.
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Trust me, koreans don't underestimate Serral. Neeb came out of literally nowhere and 2016 was also a very chaotic domestic year for koreans, but I think people do overrate that 2016 Kespa Cup run. It was essentially all PvP, which Neeb was admittedly very good at, but Serral is a three-dimensional player with more depth than I ever expected.
Yes they clearly did. Maru interviewed that Serral is not good yet to defeat INno or Rogue, and Dark in his stream said he does not see any foreigners same level as top Koreans. They clearly did not see Serral is this good as top Koreans.
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Canada2764 Posts
On August 05 2018 10:10 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +Trust me, koreans don't underestimate Serral. Neeb came out of literally nowhere and 2016 was also a very chaotic domestic year for koreans, but I think people do overrate that 2016 Kespa Cup run. It was essentially all PvP, which Neeb was admittedly very good at, but Serral is a three-dimensional player with more depth than I ever expected.
Yes they clearly did. Maru interviewed that Serral is not good yet to defeat INno or Rogue, and Dark in his stream said he does not see any foreigners same level as top Koreans. They clearly did not see Serral is this good as top Koreans.
Well, okay. I think Maru maybe does, and Dark likes portraying a ton of confidence, but you could tell that he was a little shaky when time to play Serral actually came, and INno showed some nerves in his interview (praising Serral for his solo queue MMR). On top of that a lot of other koreans who are a little more cerebral and prep-oriented do have very high opinions of Serral. It's not a Neeb situation at all.
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watching serral reminds me of when life was still in the game. that guy was unstoppable and a multi-task god.
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On August 05 2018 10:09 Proko wrote:
Serral still looking excellent. I was worried about the ZvZ but Scarlett's ZvZ looked better than Dark's, somehow.
Koreans have been wary of Scarlett for awhile. She's earned legit cred with them over the years. They know she can dumpster any of them if she is on fire (just as they know an Impact or Solar or Ragnarok can beat any top Korean), but they will always pick her assuming she is being her normal half-invested self. Even Neeb during his KeSPA Cup run was saying how much better he thought Scarlett was.
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Well, okay. I think Maru maybe does, and Dark likes portraying a ton of confidence, but you could tell that he was a little shaky when time to play Serral actually came, and INno showed some nerves in his interview (praising Serral for his solo queue MMR). On top of that a lot of other koreans who are a little more cerebral and prep-oriented do have very high opinions of Serral. It's not a Neeb situation at all.
I watched INnoVation stream as well right before GSL vs World and even he didn't seem to give a respect about foreigners from what he said there. And after GSL vs World begins he just started to know who Serral was. This clearly says he didn't know who Serral is until he got same bracket with Serral. And even during his interview, he mentioned that he thought Serral was no big deal, but after he knew how good is Serral, he got surprised and started to worry.
But I am pretty sure blizzcon will tell everything, which gives players long enough time to prepare. And Koreans pros in blizzcon will study Serral just like they did against Neeb in 2016. Although I think Serral has probably more potential than even Rogue and Dark in future, it was still very clear that Korean players did not fully understand about their foreign opponent in this tournament.
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On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there.
Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?
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Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?
Did Neeb not have vods in 2016? Nope. He had but Koreans did not aware of him at Kespa Cup, and they started watch VODs in blizzcon. Same as Serral in this tounament.
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On August 05 2018 12:21 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?
Did Neeb not have vods in 2016? Nope. He had but Koreans did not aware of him at Kespa Cup, and they started watch VODs in blizzcon. Same as Serral in this tounament.
Serral has won 3 WCS championships this year. The biggest foreigner tournaments. He's been on a roll and the talk among best foreigner this whole year. They should know about him or they deserve to lose.
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Serral has won 3 WCS championships this year. The biggest foreigner tournaments. He's been on a roll and the talk among best foreigner this whole year. They should know about him or they deserve to lose.
Exactly, they deserve to lose cuz they were arrogant. I watched INnoVation and Dark's stream before GSL vs World and none of them seemed to be aware of foreigners at all. They talked like they don't have to worry about top foreigners. But when the tourny starts, and knowing about Serral, they now realized that they have to treat Serral as other rival top Koreans just like Neeb once was in late 2016.
Even when Neeb won 3 WCS championships last year, he was still already figured by Koreans after Kespa Cup 2016.
Tomorrow result won't matter much whoever wins between Stats and Serral. I am looking forward this blizzcon what's gonna happen.
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Stats is going to need some very special tactics
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PvT like Classic,PvZ like Dear,willpower like Zest,micro like Parting,go go Stats!
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blardoh, during zest vs showtime, I could have sworn Maynard mentioned how the Korean pros don't watch VODS of foreigners. I believe they said this because zest did an opener that was completely ineffective vs showtimes style and if he had watched vod's that could have been avoided. I could be wrong, but I believe that was mentioned.
so what randononly said doesn't seem so crazy.
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Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.
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Canada2764 Posts
On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.
Serral's good at stuff that doesn't just include 'lings killing workers on counter-attacks'. Similarly, that's not as easy a thing to stop as 'kill him before he gets to late game'. Plenty of all-time great zergs made careers and won championships on the back of great counter-attacking timings. People will adapt and improve and I wouldn't put him as a Blizzcon favorite, but he's not as one-dimensional as Neeb, and he might be the most three-dimensional foreigner of all time (prime NaNiwa and prime Scarlett are both in the conversation, and prime NaNiwa came damn close to a blizzcon-tier championship in MLG Providence, while Scarlett was a game away from eliminating eventual champ Bomber in WCS Season 2. I expect Serral at Blizzcon to go in one of those two directions).
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On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.
tl before any given tournament with koreans and non-koreans (which will win some matches):
"man the koreans will crush everything"
tl after that tournament:
"that means nothing because [insert reason here] but by the next tournament it will be different"
repeat ad nauseam
i presume if serral reaches the semis of blizzcon (by beating a korean in the quarterfinal) and loses there, that would prove that he never was that good for some...
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On August 05 2018 15:01 uummpaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early. tl before any given tournament with koreans and non-koreans (which will win some matches): "man the koreans will crush everything" tl after that tournament: "that means nothing because [insert reason here] but by the next tournament it will be different" repeat ad nauseam i presume if serral reaches the semis of blizzcon (by beating a korean in the quarterfinal) and loses there, that would prove that he never was that good for some...
You act like foreigners putting up a strong fight happens often. Most of the recent open tournaments have been slaughters.
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Right, like IEM Pyeongchang..oh wait. Or like WESG....oh wait. Or like Hangzhou...oh wait.
But to be fair, one of the strengths of the Koreans is their ability to study and prepare for an opponent. Not saying that foreigners don't do that, but these top Koreans have the experience and knowledge of preparing for their opponents. Tournaments with less time to prepare for opponents generally favour foreigners because the foreigners are less known than fellow Koreans.
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On August 05 2018 15:27 Charoisaur wrote:
...
You act like foreigners putting up a strong fight happens often. Most of the recent open tournaments have been slaughters.
sure, showtime beating byun, special topping a group with stats and ty, serral topping two groups in IEM WC, etc all never happend.
i'm truly sorry to tell you that the world is not just black and white, just because koreans are overall better doesn't mean there are no equally strong players outside of korea who can put up a decent fight from time to time.
but keep making exuses when it happens (or ignore it completly), if that makes you happier its fine, but i keep myself the right to find these argumentations pretty childish....
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On August 05 2018 01:04 MockHamill wrote:
I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru.
I think that Jinro is still the best foreigner ever. No foreigner has ever made it to the round of 4 in the GSL besides Jinro.
The GSL regular seasons are much more competitive and meaningful than these fluff events. That's why Maru didn't bother showing his A game. That's why players like Neeb and Serral can make it this far... Koreans are simply hiding their good builds and skill.
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OMG the production value! Blizzard take notes!!
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On August 05 2018 18:15 jinroairwings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 01:04 MockHamill wrote:
I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru. I think that Jinro is still the best foreigner ever. No foreigner has ever made it to the round of 4 in the GSL besides Jinro. The GSL regular seasons are much more competitive and meaningful than these fluff events. That's why Maru didn't bother showing his A game. That's why players like Neeb and Serral can make it this far... Koreans are simply hiding their good builds and skill.
Apart from the fact that the great Jinro did well in a very early era of SC2 which would be dominated by every player of this tournament because stuff wasn't figured out back then, this "GSL is more competetive"-statement always bothered me. It's just plain wrong. Of course the GSL is great but you don't need "more" skill to be sucessful in GSL you just need other skills than in weekend-tournaments. Weekenders demand more overall-skillfulness because you have to be more adaptive on the fly. Also Weekenders demand the ability of shorttime-preparation. GSL demands better preparation and more consistency over a longer time. This is why a weekender is more a skill peak indicator while GSL is better to demonstrate a period of dominance.
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lol maynarde a kespa cup is a higher tournament than an invitational, even one that has a fancy name such as GSL vs The world.
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What a beautiful tournament.
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I believe that I know the answer to the question already, but can people on here stop slightly pretentiously (if correct) arguing the 'bestest best historical skill levels' and join the hype for a second?
(and this post is from yesterday!)
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On August 04 2018 23:05 yubo56 wrote:Watching Serral play, I feel like I understand how non-saviOr fans must have felt during his reign of dominance. It's never very flashy, but somehow in every situation he finds the best play. There's some meta evolution going on, but the army positioning, the constant counterattack threat from Serral have been so on point lately Here to stay: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/final-edits/102206-here-to-stay
Was Innovation "flashy" when he had his run at multiple titles? What about MVP or Stats when they won a GSL? Who's the flashiest player you can think of? Has would probably be it. I don't really get why flashiness is a concern at all and what that means....Serral is flashy in that he can defend the attack, counterattack you, and continue to macro. That's all the flash I need. I don't think any other Koreans are are any more or less flashy...aside from maybe early Life (weird style) and some of the crazier ones, they are few & far between though.
I just think your comment is a throwaway statement that means nothing when you break it down. Also, watch the game on Redshift, Serral vs. Dark- tell me that wasn't flashy bro.
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On August 05 2018 12:21 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:Show nested quote +Do you even read what you type? How could a top 3 player in the world not have vods available to be watched? In what world can foreigners watch GSL and Koreans have 0 access to WCS?
Did Neeb not have vods in 2016? Nope. He had but Koreans did not aware of him at Kespa Cup, and they started watch VODs in blizzcon. Same as Serral in this tounament.
There isn't anything he's doing that is dramatically different from other top Zergs....he just does it better and faster. His decision making is top notch and fast.
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On August 05 2018 14:50 papaz wrote:
Now Serral is not gonna be able to win Blizzcon.
Just like Neeb, everyone is gonna study him and respect him which will put an end to Serrals lings killing workers.
Just like no one waited for Neebs late game disruptor death ball anymore but just straight up killed him early.
Lol - he sums up all of Serral's success to "lings killing workers" - that's it, he's cracked the code.
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On August 05 2018 21:51 Hillshtify wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2018 23:05 yubo56 wrote:Watching Serral play, I feel like I understand how non-saviOr fans must have felt during his reign of dominance. It's never very flashy, but somehow in every situation he finds the best play. There's some meta evolution going on, but the army positioning, the constant counterattack threat from Serral have been so on point lately Here to stay: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/final-edits/102206-here-to-stay Was Innovation "flashy" when he had his run at multiple titles? What about MVP or Stats when they won a GSL? Who's the flashiest player you can think of? Has would probably be it. I don't really get why flashiness is a concern at all and what that means....Serral is flashy in that he can defend the attack, counterattack you, and continue to macro. That's all the flash I need. I don't think any other Koreans are are any more or less flashy...aside from maybe early Life (weird style) and some of the crazier ones, they are few & far between though. I just think your comment is a throwaway statement that means nothing when you break it down.
I'd consider Maru, Rogue, Dark, herO and sOs all as flashy players
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On August 05 2018 09:59 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 04:11 Fango wrote:On August 05 2018 01:47 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote:I know I don't have the skills to even criticize players rightfully because I get rekt when I try myself, but by now shouldn't pro players realize that Serral's signature thing is ling runbys to kill workers, and keep rallied units behind there? (Talking to Protoss, Terran). It just annoys me when people have a great wall but leave the defenses behind it inadequate. Kind of like a castle with thick walls but no people behind. I saw Innovation do a little of this but he was using an entire depot width so his defending units ended up too few. If he had the building space of a half depot open there are numerous times when he could have kept out 100 lings.
Korean players simply didn't know Serral's style while Serral watches GSL and studied Korean pros' styles. Serral isn't a foreigner who can be beaten easily like any other foreigners. INnoVation and Dark were kinda arrogant to not know their opponent before the match. They just played too simple without bringing any build or strategy. And this is what they got. Just like when no Koreans knew who Neeb was in 2016 Kespa Cup, and after Neeb won the Kespa Cup, they all started to study Neeb before blizzcon there. Maybe. Or maybe Serral's just that good. Koreans underestimating foreigners was huge in 2016, I dunno how huge it would be now. Trust me, koreans don't underestimate Serral. Neeb came out of literally nowhere and 2016 was also a very chaotic domestic year for koreans, but I think people do overrate that 2016 Kespa Cup run. It was essentially all PvP, which Neeb was admittedly very good at, but Serral is a three-dimensional player with more depth than I ever expected.
They probably underestimated Serral. They might have been aware of his success, but they're still used to cleaning foreigners. I don't think any of them worked hard to prepare or study him at all, not to try and take away from his victories however, he played at an elite level. But it's reasonable to assume his opponents didn't quite expect it.
Koreans are good at sniping opponents, they study them and prepare builds for each map. A good example is Classic vs Serral at katowice, Classic said himself he treated it like he was preparing a top opponent. I don't believe INno and Dark did that, they didn't care about Serral at all until after the tournament started.
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On August 05 2018 16:33 FrkFrJss wrote:
Right, like IEM Pyeongchang..oh wait. Or like WESG....oh wait. Or like Hangzhou...oh wait.
But to be fair, one of the strengths of the Koreans is their ability to study and prepare for an opponent. Not saying that foreigners don't do that, but these top Koreans have the experience and knowledge of preparing for their opponents. Tournaments with less time to prepare for opponents generally favour foreigners because the foreigners are less known than fellow Koreans.
WeSG was a beatdown. The koreans did rinse and repeat builds and all made top 4 barely dropping maps. If anything it just fueled Maru and Dark's beliefs that foreigners are a joke.
IEM Pyeongchang was a joke of a tournament, and Zest absolutely sucked. Although Scarlett beating sOs was a big upset (yes I know she used imba builds that got patched out, but it was still an upset).
I don't think anyone cares about Hangzhou tbh.
IEM Katowice is a good example, it was the biggest tournament of the year, with almost every pro player in the world entering it. And it ended up with Serral the only foreigner placing highly (just like gsl vs tw). GSL is also the biggest long running event in sc2, and other than Scarlett going deep once then falling off, foreigners haven't had much success.
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On August 05 2018 18:15 jinroairwings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 01:04 MockHamill wrote:
I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru. I think that Jinro is still the best foreigner ever. No foreigner has ever made it to the round of 4 in the GSL besides Jinro. The GSL regular seasons are much more competitive and meaningful than these fluff events. That's why Maru didn't bother showing his A game. That's why players like Neeb and Serral can make it this far... Koreans are simply hiding their good builds and skill.
Lol - Maru decided he didn't want an extra 15k or whatever, sand-bagged for the whole even. Get real.
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Really impressed with Serral this year; he's definitely cemented himself as the current #1 foreigner.
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On August 05 2018 22:42 Hillshtify wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 18:15 jinroairwings wrote:On August 05 2018 01:04 MockHamill wrote:
I said all year that Serral is the best or second best sc2 player. Turned out I was right. He is extremly solid and does not rely on gimmicks. He just outplays his opponents. He is favored to win vs every korean player, except maybe Maru. I think that Jinro is still the best foreigner ever. No foreigner has ever made it to the round of 4 in the GSL besides Jinro. The GSL regular seasons are much more competitive and meaningful than these fluff events. That's why Maru didn't bother showing his A game. That's why players like Neeb and Serral can make it this far... Koreans are simply hiding their good builds and skill. Lol - Maru decided he didn't want an extra 15k or whatever, sand-bagged for the whole even. Get real.
It's obvious that Maru doesn't show his A-game outside of GSL or big events like WeSG and Katowice. I'm sure he enjoys the money, but he said at the start of the event he has been taking time of to recharge and try his hardest to win GSL S3.
Also the idea that pros only care about money and put in all their effort for every event is nonsese. Maru turned down Nation Wars when it was basically free 5K and a trip to France. And he literally never enters online events even though he could easily earn thousands playing in them.
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EPT
![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2018/gslvsworldbanner.jpg)
Stats vs. ![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/WCS2018/gslworldbracket4.png)
