EPT
...Otherwise its simple, announced week before going live? yeah no amount of feedback will change anything so this map pool is going live boys..
EDIT: its also bad for colorblind ppl aswell
Season 2 Map Pool Announced, Effective May 15 - Page 4
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PharaphobiaSC
Czech Republic457 Posts
...Otherwise its simple, announced week before going live? yeah no amount of feedback will change anything so this map pool is going live boys.. EDIT: its also bad for colorblind ppl aswell | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
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Kurao
215 Posts
Can't wait for all the situational RNG on Redshift ecksdee | ||
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egrimm
Poland1201 Posts
Dreamcatcher and Redshift looks quite bad gameplay wise and we also have 4p map which can result in unbalanced winrates. I think I will veto first 2 and see how the darkness sanctuary meta will play out. | ||
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nonoes
24 Posts
- sanctuary veto : 4 players map is terrible balance wise as a Protoss specially vs random opponents - dreamcatcher might be a third veto i really don't like bright colors... so distracting | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Kinda sad to see Backwater gone after one season but I kinda get why. Most of my games that got past the midgame felt very similar. Lost and Found looks like a good replacement for Blackpink. Darkness Sanctuary is so huge I'm not actually all that concerned about PvRandom on it. The natural looks big enough that you could likely easily pull off building your first pylon and gate at the natural against all 3 races. Everything else looks fine. I'm glad Catalyst is still around. It's a fun map. Acid Plant is neat too so I'm fine with that. | ||
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jiovonni
2 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
At ladder level not even infestor broodlord was as absurd as the current TvP. 2-base all-in or die trying since macro games are a free win for Protoss. Playing TvP is just an awful experience. It is not even hard to fix- just un-nerf widow mines so that it is possible to put some pressure on Protoss. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
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Ryu3600
Canada470 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 07 2018 08:16 Ryu3600 wrote: I kind of wish another map was selected over Dreamcatcher. However, in TvP you can block the middle with a single reaper by having it on hold position. So like if you cannot scout I suppose you just block them from harassing you through the main middle entrance. (Literally, 1 reaper stops several stalkers. They cannot even shoot it because its hidden by the bushes) Oh right I'd forgotten those rocks were added in the middle. Pretty sure Blizzard didn't realize, considering they patched out a similar issue on Blackpink. In practice and at higher levels it just adds an extra 10 seconds for the stalkers to go around, but it sounds like an insanely frustrating "gotcha" at lower levels since the stalkers will try to path through the middle and get stuck, and the lower level players won't know/realize what happens. There's decent odds that Blizzard changes this for being "newbie unfriendly". | ||
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Timmay
United States112 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On May 07 2018 08:50 Timmay wrote: If it's a problem, the fix would take less than a minute. Would you fix it by adding a gap in the LOS blockers or by adding a few more blockers on each side, so that the area isn't so easily cut off by a small number of units? | ||
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Timmay
United States112 Posts
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Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
On May 07 2018 07:04 deacon.frost wrote: There should be fixed spawns on 4p maps, hate that thing and I'm gonna rush everyone to death on that map, let's see how the map is loved Yeah, who knows why XXL 4p maps are used again. During the 2017 spring map pool (Abyssal Reef • Bel'Shir Vestige • Cactus Valley • Honorgrounds • Newkirk Precinct TE • Paladino Terminal • Proxima Station) pros were voicing concern regarding spawns - drop/swarm host issues, cross vs horizontal/vertical, all nasty 4p bs - on Cactus and Honorgrounds. And we were able to have a 2p map pool after that, in summer 2017. People generally liked it: (Abyssal Reef • Ascension to Aiur • Blood Boil • Defender's Landing • Odyssey • Proxima Station • Sequencer), note that there still were XL maps in there (proxima, ascension, odyssey, sequencer), and even those caused some controversy balance wise. That, and the ghost of 3rax reaper and blood boil, etc was an issue too. But most people were glad that Honorgrounds and Cactus with their spawn issues was out, it was an okay-ish pool. Putting the LOTV equivalent of Alterzim Stronghold in a map pool in 2018 has to be an experiment at best. The most obvious reasons I can find are these two: It was put in the GSL (because they do their own thing with a lot of 4p love), and it just so happened to have one great late-game on it. Similar to how Habitation Station got into the pool, after the one Scarlett/Bomber map. A lot of other games on Habitation weren't all that great, tbh. But it still got ladder. Darkness I don't see much good about, it's better than Alterzim but meh. Try flower scouting against a proxy DT shrine, fusion core, or proxy spire on a 4p XXL map. Back to 4P city for a competitive pool? No thanks What was wrong with Acolyte for something this large? xD | ||
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Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
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Elentos
55593 Posts
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Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
On May 20 2018 03:30 Elentos wrote: The rest of the thread is probably still wondering why you compared Darkness Sanctuary to Alterzim Stronghold. Because a lot of these 4P maps are in my opinion over-sized, random, and generally un-enjoyable and quite heavily vetoed. Darkness Sanctuary was apparently around in GSL S1 earlier this year but I hardly noticed it was there in the first place because it was vetoed in all but 4 series where it was a choice. It was vetoed 93.75% of the time... I just looked up stats from GSL S1 2014 just to check what happened to Alterzim and it actually did perform much better with around 38% pick rate. Relative to Darkness, it's extremely impressive, but nothing much compared to mainstays like Catalyst. Compare Darkness Sanctuary at 2%-6.25% pick rates this year to some of the well performing maps from 2018 GSL S2 Ro32: Catalyst was chosen 24 times out of 40 possible. (60%) Blackpink 33 out of 40 possible... (82.5%) huh............?? In many other spaces people would've been fired for allowing a product with a 2-7% customer approval rate to be one seventh of a product portfolio... Can you imagine getting an indicative test report back where you see a sub 10% approval rating and still go through with it as one of seven flagship products, when the alternatives are in the 40-70% range? (Ideal pick rate in a Bo3 is 42.85%). Idk what kind of risk taking approach this is but so far it's got bad consequences. People even have trouble differentiating enemy units from their own under the dark teal color screen effect... ... in what reasonable scenario would a company dump a 82.5% success product when it's still pretty new, but push something with 2-7% approval rating for another season? The 'diversity' argument for bringing in bad maps is laughable, diversity is destroyed because we end up with over-played map rates like what happened to Blackpink.. Everyone vetos the awful maps so we end up with less diversity! And what happens next, to get more diversity? Remove succesful over-performers like Blackpink, possibly? "It feels like every game I watch on TV is on Blackpink", right? Maybe good maps like Blackpink wouldn't be over-played in the first place if their peers didn't under-perform so hard, and maybe we shouldn't be so negative of successful maps to begin with to the extent where we have to remove them in order to 'get more variety'.. Stylistic and individual performance-based veto diversity is in the gutter because some of these vetos are absolute no-brainers, match-up performance percent is how people do vetos now. That's not how it should be, nobody should want to see some protoss veto map X for the 27th time in a row because that's what every protoss does. I'm not even sure if people are conscious about how this plays out or if anybody even cares, I'm feeling like a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist over here. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/s2NMdXT.png) Having only one 7x-map pool instead of two separate pools/ladders - one for WCS and an All-Star ladder or something - makes things ultra forced for everyone since we keep having these unnatural underperformers and 4p/gold base maps thrown our way. When a map under-performs as heavily as Darkness Sanctuary is currently doing, getting vetoed more than 90% of the time, it is effectively a reduction of the map pool to a 6-map one. | ||
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DSh1
292 Posts
So I do agree, that four player maps are less fun, though there might be people who like them. Also watching 4 player maps isn't much different from other maps from my experience (I do watch a lot). On another note I do find not only 4 player maps less fun, but also bigger maps in general. But could also be because I am not good enough at the game yet, so I find smaller maps easier to learn. (I loved Ulrena, if anyone remembers) | ||
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Elentos
55593 Posts
The players are apprehensive about playing new maps that aren't on ladder in GSL, even if it's 2-player maps. GSL Rak'Shir and GSL Sky Shield in 2016 went basically unseen in 2016 and are neither missed nor remembered, even though they're 2-player maps. Conversely, when Frost and Whirlwind (by the way, only slightly smaller than Darkness, and all way smaller than Alterzim) were brought back in 2016 and 2017 respectively, they got played a good amount across SSL and GSL. It's not just because it's 4-p that Darkness Sanctuary didn't get played a lot in GSL up to this point. I agree with what you're saying about diversity, but overall it honestly seems like you're taking too much of a personal issue with the 4-p maps. Because I haven't seen many people going "YES, I GET TO PLAY ON REDSHIFT" and I'm sure uThermal has a thing or two to say about Dreamcatcher still. I think they really tried to do too much with these map changes. 5 changes between two ladder seasons when it's not the off-season is really not very common and probably shouldn't be either. And I could see GSL still using Blackpink in their tournaments in September. | ||
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