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On April 21 2018 21:06 Olli wrote:
Hellbats suiciding into probe lines would just be dumb. It would have to be an upgrade.
The current investment to do exactly that is a techlab upgrade, and it's enough to make that strategy extinct.
Maybe a cheap armory upgrade then?
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Austria24422 Posts
Armory is what I was thinking too. You'd at least have to make a significant investment to suicide your hellbats into probe lines. Or even at ebay, would need testing.
Point is that it shouldn't just be free in the early game.
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On April 22 2018 01:17 Olli wrote:
Armory is what I was thinking too. You'd at least have to make a significant investment to suicide your hellbats into probe lines. Or even at ebay, would need testing.
Point is that it shouldn't just be free in the early game.
Sounds fair to me. Even if Hellbat drops became standard, they're still a step up from the old WM drop every game.
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On April 21 2018 18:17 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2018 12:22 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:
hellbats are still good vs zealots and adepts, if 10 adepts with glaives shade on top of 10 hellbats with blue flame, all of them will die and all hellbats survive, 15 adepts will also die and 3 hellbats survive, but who wants to build quick 2nd factory for it lol.
I think that lowering cost of blue flame to 100/100 and production time to 40+ sec will not hurt early tvz hellbat pushes but will slightly encourage invest in it vs toss. Thing is, Hellbats are always on a timer since sooner or later Terran absolutely must make a bio transition against Protoss. The longer they're delayed (by upgrades), the less effective they will be. Also, early blueflame would almost certainly lead to more Hellbat allins against Zerg.
should be easy for zerg to hold an allin when terran need to build: armory, 2nd factory and blueflame.
vs standard hellbat timing zergs already can build roaches, it will be only worse for terran to wait for blueflame even if it will finish quicker than now since it only works vs light.
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On April 22 2018 02:10 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2018 18:17 pvsnp wrote:On April 21 2018 12:22 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:
hellbats are still good vs zealots and adepts, if 10 adepts with glaives shade on top of 10 hellbats with blue flame, all of them will die and all hellbats survive, 15 adepts will also die and 3 hellbats survive, but who wants to build quick 2nd factory for it lol.
I think that lowering cost of blue flame to 100/100 and production time to 40+ sec will not hurt early tvz hellbat pushes but will slightly encourage invest in it vs toss. Thing is, Hellbats are always on a timer since sooner or later Terran absolutely must make a bio transition against Protoss. The longer they're delayed (by upgrades), the less effective they will be. Also, early blueflame would almost certainly lead to more Hellbat allins against Zerg. should be easy for zerg to hold an allin when terran need to build: armory, 2nd factory and blueflame.
Should be easy for terran to hold an allin when protoss needs to build : twilight council, 8 gates, robotics facility.
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On April 22 2018 02:15 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 02:10 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On April 21 2018 18:17 pvsnp wrote:On April 21 2018 12:22 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:
hellbats are still good vs zealots and adepts, if 10 adepts with glaives shade on top of 10 hellbats with blue flame, all of them will die and all hellbats survive, 15 adepts will also die and 3 hellbats survive, but who wants to build quick 2nd factory for it lol.
I think that lowering cost of blue flame to 100/100 and production time to 40+ sec will not hurt early tvz hellbat pushes but will slightly encourage invest in it vs toss. Thing is, Hellbats are always on a timer since sooner or later Terran absolutely must make a bio transition against Protoss. The longer they're delayed (by upgrades), the less effective they will be. Also, early blueflame would almost certainly lead to more Hellbat allins against Zerg. should be easy for zerg to hold an allin when terran need to build: armory, 2nd factory and blueflame. Should be easy for terran to hold an allin when protoss needs to build : twilight council, 8 gates, robotics facility.
adepts? yes it's easy if scouted, same for zerg vs hellbats.
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On April 22 2018 02:17 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 02:15 Durnuu wrote:On April 22 2018 02:10 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On April 21 2018 18:17 pvsnp wrote:On April 21 2018 12:22 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:
hellbats are still good vs zealots and adepts, if 10 adepts with glaives shade on top of 10 hellbats with blue flame, all of them will die and all hellbats survive, 15 adepts will also die and 3 hellbats survive, but who wants to build quick 2nd factory for it lol.
I think that lowering cost of blue flame to 100/100 and production time to 40+ sec will not hurt early tvz hellbat pushes but will slightly encourage invest in it vs toss. Thing is, Hellbats are always on a timer since sooner or later Terran absolutely must make a bio transition against Protoss. The longer they're delayed (by upgrades), the less effective they will be. Also, early blueflame would almost certainly lead to more Hellbat allins against Zerg. should be easy for zerg to hold an allin when terran need to build: armory, 2nd factory and blueflame. Should be easy for terran to hold an allin when protoss needs to build : twilight council, 8 gates, robotics facility. adepts? yes it's easy if scouted, same for zerg vs hellbats.
Didn't Inno say you can't stop 8gate even when you know it's coming?
He was probably just salty about losing to Classic though.
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On April 22 2018 02:58 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2018 02:17 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On April 22 2018 02:15 Durnuu wrote:On April 22 2018 02:10 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On April 21 2018 18:17 pvsnp wrote:On April 21 2018 12:22 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:
hellbats are still good vs zealots and adepts, if 10 adepts with glaives shade on top of 10 hellbats with blue flame, all of them will die and all hellbats survive, 15 adepts will also die and 3 hellbats survive, but who wants to build quick 2nd factory for it lol.
I think that lowering cost of blue flame to 100/100 and production time to 40+ sec will not hurt early tvz hellbat pushes but will slightly encourage invest in it vs toss. Thing is, Hellbats are always on a timer since sooner or later Terran absolutely must make a bio transition against Protoss. The longer they're delayed (by upgrades), the less effective they will be. Also, early blueflame would almost certainly lead to more Hellbat allins against Zerg. should be easy for zerg to hold an allin when terran need to build: armory, 2nd factory and blueflame. Should be easy for terran to hold an allin when protoss needs to build : twilight council, 8 gates, robotics facility. adepts? yes it's easy if scouted, same for zerg vs hellbats. Didn't Inno say you can't stop 8gate even when you know it's coming? He was probably just salty about losing to Classic though.
can't stop or hard to stop with certain builds, but 3rax stim+shields both done at 5;00 is kinda hard countering this, 1-1-1 with viking to kill prism can do it too.
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EPT
