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Community Feedback Update - March 6 - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
291 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 13 14 15 Next All
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
March 07 2018 00:06 GMT
#21
I'd rather nydus get changed that overlord drops if I'm honest. Droperlords at least seemed holdable to some degree in recent pro matches. I don't actually remember the last time I saw a nydus fail
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 07 2018 00:08 GMT
#22
On March 07 2018 09:06 Fango wrote:
I'd rather nydus get changed that overlord drops if I'm honest. Droperlords at least seemed holdable to some degree in recent pro matches. I don't actually remember the last time I saw a nydus fail


This might weaken the nydus anyway if you dont have to open stargate the nydus might suck vs a robo opening or twilight.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
March 07 2018 00:12 GMT
#23
On March 07 2018 09:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 08:55 Musicus wrote:
Back to defense only as zerg or go super all-in with that Elazer/Rogue nydus bullshit.

An aggressive option that could set up a cool macro game was too much I guess.

The Stargate problem is a scouting problem and not a "must open stargate to survive ling drops" problem imo.


We rarely ever saw "aggressive options that could set up macro games". Sure people occasionally went for some 8 ling drops for some harassment, but overwhelmingly it was 16 lings or ling/ravager or ling/baneling off a minimal drone count that either killed the opponent or lost.

Well I still think the ling drops were the least all-in option compared to ling/bane, ling/ravager or nydus/roach/queen all-ins. All those will still be viable. Would've rather seen the nydus bs removed for example.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
ilikeredheads
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1995 Posts
March 07 2018 00:17 GMT
#24
Raven nerf seems excessively harsh. They are the only thing keeping terran relevant in late game but let's nerf it
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
March 07 2018 00:27 GMT
#25
On March 07 2018 09:17 ilikeredheads wrote:
Raven nerf seems excessively harsh. They are the only thing keeping terran relevant in late game but let's nerf it

I definitely think that Terran should have a late game army that could put up a fight against Zerg and Protoss, but that being said I don't think that massing casters is a way to go. We all know how massing Infestors in WoL looked like, and although I've seen mass Infestors in one of Serral's games(against Trap I think?) at the Katowice, it was mostly for Neural Parasite on big units and not for spamming Fungal Growth and Infested Terrans like they were used for before.

Any late playstyle that revolves around spamming mostly casters and trading energy for minerals should be eradicated in my opinion no matter the race, casters are there to support the rest of your army. Even having like 10 casters can be overwhelming, but it is still fine I guess, as long as you are not having something like 30 of them. I still have nightmares from those games where I've seen 40+ Infestors and nothing else, pure horror...
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
March 07 2018 00:27 GMT
#26
On March 07 2018 09:12 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 09:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On March 07 2018 08:55 Musicus wrote:
Back to defense only as zerg or go super all-in with that Elazer/Rogue nydus bullshit.

An aggressive option that could set up a cool macro game was too much I guess.

The Stargate problem is a scouting problem and not a "must open stargate to survive ling drops" problem imo.


We rarely ever saw "aggressive options that could set up macro games". Sure people occasionally went for some 8 ling drops for some harassment, but overwhelmingly it was 16 lings or ling/ravager or ling/baneling off a minimal drone count that either killed the opponent or lost.

Well I still think the ling drops were the least all-in option compared to ling/bane, ling/ravager or nydus/roach/queen all-ins. All those will still be viable. Would've rather seen the nydus bs removed for example.


Nerfing nydus wouldn't improve Protoss opening diversity one wit. And 16 ling drops are just as all-in as the others when you have barely any drones.
LTCM
Profile Joined May 2017
174 Posts
March 07 2018 00:45 GMT
#27
I cannot believe anyone is even defending ling drops in their current shape. No one can say with a straight face that they were good for the game post msc removal. Overlords are already so strong in all their forms there's no way blizzard wasn't going to nerf them somehow.
Byun is a convicted match-fixer.
DomeGetta
Profile Joined February 2012
480 Posts
March 07 2018 00:48 GMT
#28
Rogue wins the last 3 major tournaments and we are nerfing terran? We finally saw terran win a couple late game scenarios vs zerg and already killing the raven?? 30 might be too much dmg but 5 is ridiculous..start at 5??? 6 x nerf? Dont try 15 first or even 10 rofl??? What in the fuck am i reading. 1 more corrupter shot on vikings LOL
DomeGetta
Profile Joined February 2012
480 Posts
March 07 2018 00:51 GMT
#29
On March 07 2018 09:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 09:17 ilikeredheads wrote:
Raven nerf seems excessively harsh. They are the only thing keeping terran relevant in late game but let's nerf it

I definitely think that Terran should have a late game army that could put up a fight against Zerg and Protoss, but that being said I don't think that massing casters is a way to go. We all know how massing Infestors in WoL looked like, and although I've seen mass Infestors in one of Serral's games(against Trap I think?) at the Katowice, it was mostly for Neural Parasite on big units and not for spamming Fungal Growth and Infested Terrans like they were used for before.

Any late playstyle that revolves around spamming mostly casters and trading energy for minerals should be eradicated in my opinion no matter the race, casters are there to support the rest of your army. Even having like 10 casters can be overwhelming, but it is still fine I guess, as long as you are not having something like 30 of them. I still have nightmares from those games where I've seen 40+ Infestors and nothing else, pure horror...

Yah i agree with late game turtle playstyle being retarded..problem is that protoss and zerg both already have it ..carriers and broodlords both need out of the game if terran has no answer..terran air cant fight zerg or protoss air this is clear with a useless raven.
LaughNgamez
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada523 Posts
March 07 2018 00:52 GMT
#30
They should just increase the connection time for the AAM so it's more easy to split vs. There's plenty of AOE in the game in which the only counter play is to split. It's a better alternative instead of nerfing the unit to shit so it has 2 nerfed useless abilities.
(◕‿◕✿) Hopefully one day a decent caster http://www.youtube.com/LaughNgamez (◠‿◠✿)
THERIDDLER
Profile Joined July 2014
Canada116 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 00:56:40
March 07 2018 00:55 GMT
#31
They should get community feedback before making changes
Please don't fricken hack, its just a game.
LTCM
Profile Joined May 2017
174 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 00:58:41
March 07 2018 00:57 GMT
#32
On March 07 2018 09:51 DomeGetta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 09:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On March 07 2018 09:17 ilikeredheads wrote:
Raven nerf seems excessively harsh. They are the only thing keeping terran relevant in late game but let's nerf it

I definitely think that Terran should have a late game army that could put up a fight against Zerg and Protoss, but that being said I don't think that massing casters is a way to go. We all know how massing Infestors in WoL looked like, and although I've seen mass Infestors in one of Serral's games(against Trap I think?) at the Katowice, it was mostly for Neural Parasite on big units and not for spamming Fungal Growth and Infested Terrans like they were used for before.

Any late playstyle that revolves around spamming mostly casters and trading energy for minerals should be eradicated in my opinion no matter the race, casters are there to support the rest of your army. Even having like 10 casters can be overwhelming, but it is still fine I guess, as long as you are not having something like 30 of them. I still have nightmares from those games where I've seen 40+ Infestors and nothing else, pure horror...

Yah i agree with late game turtle playstyle being retarded..problem is that protoss and zerg both already have it ..carriers and broodlords both need out of the game if terran has no answer..terran air cant fight zerg or protoss air this is clear with a useless raven.


Terrans have never had an issue fighting carriers and it's dishonest to say otherwise. Terran already has plenty of options to fight carriers straight up.
Byun is a convicted match-fixer.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 01:17:34
March 07 2018 01:01 GMT
#33
the problem with ling drops is more than just holding them but, as others have said, that it forces out early defense in the main mineral line as well as stargate units to shut down drop ovies.

i have been a Z/P player for years, and i love the new dropperlords, but speaking objectively as someone who plays both matchups there's too much flexibility in how zerg can play out the game. holding the allins is entirely possible, but there's zero margin for error in any detail of your build, your wall and your micro, it's a highly practiced and unforgiving early game interaction that makes the game less fun in PVZ.

i would compare it to when PVZ cannon rushing was extremely safe and extremely frustrating to play against back in HOTS. it's not really that PVZ is imba because of unit interactions (once you get to midgame protoss is fine), but it feels extremely stunted and scripted from the protoss point of view. there's almost no way to mix it up early as toss without dying to a lot of popular high-percentage allins.

i don't feel like it's fair for protoss to be punished for greedy walling the natural when they HAVE TO wall the natural to play a macro game. there's no "safer option" for protoss builds, if you don't gate expand you're fucked. with the mineral growth rate of LOTV you can't even do one base tech builds anymore because the pylon timings aren't right
TL+ Member
DomeGetta
Profile Joined February 2012
480 Posts
March 07 2018 01:21 GMT
#34
On March 07 2018 09:57 LTCM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2018 09:51 DomeGetta wrote:
On March 07 2018 09:27 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On March 07 2018 09:17 ilikeredheads wrote:
Raven nerf seems excessively harsh. They are the only thing keeping terran relevant in late game but let's nerf it

I definitely think that Terran should have a late game army that could put up a fight against Zerg and Protoss, but that being said I don't think that massing casters is a way to go. We all know how massing Infestors in WoL looked like, and although I've seen mass Infestors in one of Serral's games(against Trap I think?) at the Katowice, it was mostly for Neural Parasite on big units and not for spamming Fungal Growth and Infested Terrans like they were used for before.

Any late playstyle that revolves around spamming mostly casters and trading energy for minerals should be eradicated in my opinion no matter the race, casters are there to support the rest of your army. Even having like 10 casters can be overwhelming, but it is still fine I guess, as long as you are not having something like 30 of them. I still have nightmares from those games where I've seen 40+ Infestors and nothing else, pure horror...

Yah i agree with late game turtle playstyle being retarded..problem is that protoss and zerg both already have it ..carriers and broodlords both need out of the game if terran has no answer..terran air cant fight zerg or protoss air this is clear with a useless raven.


Terrans have never had an issue fighting carriers and it's dishonest to say otherwise. Terran already has plenty of options to fight carriers straight up.


Im not talking about fighting them straight up. Im talking about mothership / tempest/ all splash damage caster/colo comp stats was using. Maru loses that 100% without the 20 ravens. There is no answer. There is literally no arguement that carriers arent a turtlewhores dream unit.
breaker1328
Profile Joined March 2016
Canada295 Posts
March 07 2018 01:22 GMT
#35
I'm not surprised at all by the Raven change. It's called "Anti Armor Missile", not "Nuke." I'm not sure exactly a minor buff to Vikings is going to mean for the match up though. Feels like something is missing.
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
March 07 2018 01:23 GMT
#36
If you want the anti-armor missile to be used "as intended" you have to give terrans a way to take effective engagements while the debuff is up. I would argue it currently is being used as intended though because the only time you see large amounts of damage come out of AAM is when units are clumped up from move commands. When they're spread out, very little effective damage is done and very few units get hit by the debuff. In that sense the damage serves as a disincentive for the enemy from just always running away, which clumps up their units.

The compensatory buff to the Viking does absolutely nothing though. This should never reach live without appropriate compensation for a massive late game nerf.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
March 07 2018 01:31 GMT
#37
On March 07 2018 10:23 TheWinks wrote:
If you want the anti-armor missile to be used "as intended" you have to give terrans a way to take effective engagements while the debuff is up. I would argue it currently is being used as intended though because the only time you see large amounts of damage come out of AAM is when units are clumped up from move commands. When they're spread out, very little effective damage is done and very few units get hit by the debuff. In that sense the damage serves as a disincentive for the enemy from just always running away, which clumps up their units.

The compensatory buff to the Viking does absolutely nothing though. This should never reach live without appropriate compensation for a massive late game nerf.


Are you seriously arguing that ravens are working "as intended" when mass raven is specifically what Blizzard doesn't want to happen? As for "very little effective damage" being done lol
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
March 07 2018 01:34 GMT
#38
Stop buffing air units!!!!!!!!!!!!!!God damn it blizzard!!! Just stop!
franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States583 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-03-07 01:41:32
March 07 2018 01:40 GMT
#39
Well, at IEM we did see raven builds where they were not massed... vs. both Zerg and Protoss.

So I am very glad blizzard isn't letting mass raven become the game. The viking buff is a much better buff too, even helps T vs. P.

And the overlord drop nerf is so great... Though scarlett is going to be known by some people as the zerg who made it to the GSL RO8 by overlord drops.

I think the game is in a great spot and I like that they keep fixing little things here and there with community feedback.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
March 07 2018 01:43 GMT
#40
On March 07 2018 08:05 Snakestyle1 wrote:
I saw it coming, I knew the ravens were not gonna stay, it was really broken.

Also, as a zerg player who recently offraced some protoss, I also saw the ling drop nerf coming. Damn that is really strong when the protoss doesnt have tight build order and good micro and building placement. I had a lot of problems against early ling drop + mass ling flood builds, I always took so much damage.

Overall, 2 really solid changes. I still wonder if mothership reallly needs to be in the game. I know its too cool looking and epic to remove, but balance wise, it doesnt seem fair that only protoss has 1 hero unit. ( 2, with probius) Do they really need an extra recall in the mothership? They already have nexus recalls, which are really clutch...


As for terran late game, the viking buffs is alright.. but...

Battlecruisers!! What are you waiting for? The fix is easy.

The problem with battle cruisers against zerg especially, is that they are DOUBLE hard countered by the corruptors.

I explain.
1) Their armor is armored and massive, meaning they take a LOT of dmg from corruptors.
2) They attack really fast for really little damage, similar to marines. Meaning the corruptors natural high armor of 2 hard counters the BCs attack. Its pretty much like marines shooting at ultralisks.

The fix is obvious, you have to make BCS more like starcraft1 bcs. Attack slower, for high damage. Maybe a tiny bit of cleave damage to 2 close targets? Might be too strong.

Obviously if you buff the BCs, teleport and yamato have to be reworked.

Make the bcs a strong a-move unit. Terran does not have good late game A-move units. Their late game units are all super micro intensive, while the other races late game unit is super a-move.

Capital air units are strong because spell casters are strong.
Raven + BC in HOTS,Broodlord + infestors or vipers and of course Carriers + High templars.
Those big ass ship can't do shit without support and tier 2 anti air of any race will destroy them all.We can nerf viper or raven but protoss is not the case.This time the carrier itself needs to be nerfed not HTs.
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