WCSCommunity Feedback Update - March 6 - Page 14
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tskarzyn
United States354 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2170 Posts
On March 11 2018 02:37 Freeborn wrote: Seriously Terrans... just stop whining. sure you can have super powerful AOE plus a 3-Armor-upgrade-debuff that hits air and ground... But only if you are willing to give up some power of your basic units which are the most cost efficient in the game. Are you really ready for that? The AAM is supposed to turn the raven into a support role to change it away from mass raven and also from total niche play into a regular support and for that the armor reduction works well, but stackable AOE air/ground instant damage is too strong and as eerybody with a brain knows, can not be evaded you can only split before the attack. Now you terran whiners please remind yourselves that terran bio beats EVERYTHING in small numbers and for cost plus is more mobile and airborne. Protoss is fucking balanced around psistorm forcefields and colossus. Gateway units and even immortals just lose in a straight up fight versus mixed bio. When protoss is spread out terran just always wins in smaller engagements. Same goes for pvz. Nerf bio healing, speed and damage and then sure you can have more AOE, although I doubt that stackable airborne AOE that hits air and ground is a good design in any case. BTW the videos I posted where almost all high level players, If you watch any pro games you will know that protoss armies are usually stacked because they are vulnerable when separated. + Show Spoiler + Just look at Maru vs SOS, that was no strategy or tactic that was pure raw micro abusing the DPS and mobility of stimmed bio, while SOS is somehow delusionally thinking that protoss can win with strategy and bigger army without AOE. I think the more important question is how to make ravens and starport techlabs more accessible and usable without making the units overpowered. In addition to that protoss is still incredibly weak in spread out engagements or without AOE as showcased in the terrible state of pvz, which is way worse that pvt currently. it would probably have been way better to keep the stalker buff and give terran an early game buff like faster, cheaper combat shields or something like that. I don't like mass ravens but thats not true, this isn't HotS, gateway comps can and DO win vs stimmed bio, colossus no longer is a necessity for TvP and terran no longer plays pure bio with medivacs, WM, tanks and liberators are as important for a terran as colossus was in past expansions. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2170 Posts
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Xamo
Spain471 Posts
[B]On March 11 2018 02:37 Freeborn wrote:[/B it would probably have been way better to keep the stalker buff and give terran an early game buff like faster, cheaper combat shields or something like that. +1 to this, during the nerf discussion I defended shortening stim research time and not nerfing the stalker. This would also have helped bio in TvT. | ||
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gobbledydook
Australia1809 Posts
On March 11 2018 05:05 Lexender wrote: I don't like mass ravens but thats not true, this isn't HotS, gateway comps can and DO win vs stimmed bio, colossus no longer is a necessity for TvP and terran no longer plays pure bio with medivacs, WM, tanks and liberators are as important for a terran as colossus was in past expansions. Or, you could stim 16 marines up a ramp and win...just ask Maru | ||
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ShambhalaWar
United States721 Posts
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pvsnp
6639 Posts
On March 11 2018 11:53 gobbledydook wrote: Or, you could stim 16 marines up a ramp and win...just ask Maru Of course, every Terran can count on their Protoss opponent to donate a free Oracle and Phoenix to start, then botch their FF placement and lose the rest of their army. Obviously. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3110 Posts
All this raven nerf talk is a bunch of nonsense. | ||
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ihatevideogames
302 Posts
On March 11 2018 14:01 ReachTheSky wrote: Has anyone asked the big question of "Why is protoss and zerg allowed to have broken late game armies but terran isn't?" This double standard really needs to go. It's like toss/zergs want everything in the world but don't want their opposing counterparts to have anything. Like get real. All this raven nerf talk is a bunch of nonsense. Because 'MUH ESPORTS'. Literally. Someone in Activision's marketing department probably thinks Terran having no lategame leads to more 'action packed' games. | ||
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Geo.Rion
6181 Posts
On March 11 2018 02:54 KR_4EVR wrote: Not quite. The attack speed of slowed units would be slowed also. But when you put it that way, people can see that my proposal is actually quite modest. yes, a modest request to give a flying unit a fungal that slows attack speed as well. Yes, terran does need that, i agree. But in the meantime, i would also like to make a modest request for Hydralisks to gain a new ability, Battle rage. It would buff movement speed and attack speed, but only for a short while, not unlike the stimpack terrans use, but to make it a bit different, instead of costing health it will add +20 HP for the duration. Also, as someone very smartly came up with the idea already, the burrow upgrade should make corruptors able to become a ground to ground unit, and while we re at it we need to address somehow the outrageous situatuion that right now Broodlords have no Anti Air. After all its the only racial capitalship that doesnt do A-A and A-G simultaneously, I mean who could argue that this is unfair? 2/3 race have such unit it, and 1/3 dont, like really? where s my pitchfork | ||
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tskarzyn
United States354 Posts
On March 11 2018 14:01 ReachTheSky wrote: Has anyone asked the big question of "Why is protoss and zerg allowed to have broken late game armies but terran isn't?" This double standard really needs to go. It's like toss/zergs want everything in the world but don't want their opposing counterparts to have anything. Like get real. All this raven nerf talk is a bunch of nonsense. I think it is partly because the onus is on Terran to create exciting games. Terran is aggressive from start to finish to keep Z/P from growing out of control. Terran is splitting against Z/P spells or AoE. Terran's units are squishy and fast and rely on multi-tasking and positioning to win. If every race functioned like Z and P, the game would be a bore-fest. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
On March 11 2018 16:55 Geo.Rion wrote: yes, a modest request to give a flying unit a fungal that slows attack speed as well. Yes, terran does need that, i agree. But in the meantime, i would also like to make a modest request for Hydralisks to gain a new ability, Battle rage. It would buff movement speed and attack speed, but only for a short while, not unlike the stimpack terrans use, but to make it a bit different, instead of costing health it will add +20 HP for the duration. Also, as someone very smartly came up with the idea already, the burrow upgrade should make corruptors able to become a ground to ground unit, and while we re at it we need to address somehow the outrageous situatuion that right now Broodlords have no Anti Air. After all its the only racial capitalship that doesnt do A-A and A-G simultaneously, I mean who could argue that this is unfair? 2/3 race have such unit it, and 1/3 dont, like really? where s my pitchfork I really wish you wouldn't dismiss my idea like this without serious thought. The proposed spell would be from Ravens only, would (unlike storm or fungal) do zero damage by itself, and would just have slowing effect. That's not as powerful as either of fungal or storm, and it's far less damage than current AAM or Seeker Missile. It really is a good compromise spell. Edit: And quite nicely, duration of slow provides a simple, tweakable, balancing variable. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
i would also like to make a modest request for Hydralisks to gain a new ability, Battle rage. It would buff movement speed and attack speed, but only for a short while, not unlike the stimpack terrans use I think it would be interesting for all races to have an upgrade like stim, upgrades like hydra +1/speed, and an upgrade like charge. The first one you choose costs 100/100, the second one 200/200, the third one 300/300, and the fourth one 400/400. | ||
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Beliskner
111 Posts
On March 11 2018 14:01 ReachTheSky wrote: Has anyone asked the big question of "Why is protoss and zerg allowed to have broken late game armies but terran isn't?" This double standard really needs to go. It's like toss/zergs want everything in the world but don't want their opposing counterparts to have anything. Like get real. All this raven nerf talk is a bunch of nonsense. The reason for the raven nerf has nothing to do with terran not allowed to have a good late game. It's getting changed because Blizzard did not intend for the new raven to be massed and anti-armor missile to be spammed like it is, they specifically said that was their goal with the redesign. Which is why it's getting changed so quickly. It has nothing to do with it being really OP and Blizzard saying 'OMG NO WE CANT LET TERRAN HAVE LATEGAME' but Blizzard probably saw it at IEM and thought 'Oh whoops that's specifically the opposite of what we intended'. | ||
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pvsnp
6639 Posts
On March 12 2018 09:29 Beliskner wrote: The reason for the raven nerf has nothing to do with terran not allowed to have a good late game. It's getting changed because Blizzard did not intend for the new raven to be massed and anti-armor missile to be spammed like it is, they specifically said that was their goal with the redesign. Which is why it's getting changed so quickly. It has nothing to do with it really being OP and Blizzard saying 'OMG NO WE CANT LET TERRAN HAVE LATEGAME' but Blizzard probably saw it at IEM and thought 'Oh whoops that's specifically the opposite of what we intended'. And the reason people are complaining is because Terran lategame (sans Raven) is shit, not to put too fine a point on it (mostly TvP, TvZ is alright). +10 health on the Viking certainly isn't going to change that. Unintended or not, nerfing the Raven without compensation screws over a race that has struggled pretty hard post-4.0. The struggle is an understandable consequence of a major design patch like 4.0 but a reasonable person would expect Blizzard to take steps to remedy that, not aggravate it. In a vacuum, you are absolutely correct. In this context, not so much. I haven't even touched the game yet this year (because of workload, thanks ML!) and have been relatively aloof, but even I can see where the complaints coming from. | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1807 Posts
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xongnox
504 Posts
On March 11 2018 05:05 Lexender wrote: I don't like mass ravens but thats not true, this isn't HotS, gateway comps can and DO win vs stimmed bio, colossus no longer is a necessity for TvP and terran no longer plays pure bio with medivacs, WM, tanks and liberators are as important for a terran as colossus was in past expansions. Yep, pure bio medivacs in LOTV actually get reck by hydras, by gling/banes/hydra, by gateway units with minimum support (say 1 guardian shield and 1 immortal), by gateway/immo/archons etc. Every decent master player knows theses facts. It's actually probably the weaker composition of the game, the one we nearly never see in pro games. Adding respectively tanks/libs/ghosts and mines/ghosts/libs/ make it way better in frontal fights (but still trash vs Toss) but also take away some advantage of bio (like mobility and ability to engage fast) Yet some frozen in past people still believes bio is strong, probably dreaming of the so so many terrans who only make marines and medivacs like MKP "1a moving to victory" vs storms and banes. At this point it's not even myths but pure dementia... | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland376 Posts
For Terrans- just be careful what u wish for. If Blizzard would buff your lategame more, they would have to nerf your midgame first. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1280 Posts
On March 11 2018 13:04 ShambhalaWar wrote: I hate the drop nerf for zerg, now it's just back to the way it was before. I imagine there is a better solution to the problem then revert it to the way it was before. They couldve just make overlords take longer to morph into droppalords and after lair finishes its faster morph again. That way drop would still be a thing but come out a bit later which is the whole problem. | ||
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OkStyX
Canada1185 Posts
On March 12 2018 09:29 Beliskner wrote: The reason for the raven nerf has nothing to do with terran not allowed to have a good late game. It's getting changed because Blizzard did not intend for the new raven to be massed and anti-armor missile to be spammed like it is, they specifically said that was their goal with the redesign. Which is why it's getting changed so quickly. It has nothing to do with it being really OP and Blizzard saying 'OMG NO WE CANT LET TERRAN HAVE LATEGAME' but Blizzard probably saw it at IEM and thought 'Oh whoops that's specifically the opposite of what we intended'. Don't bother like talking to a brick wall | ||
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