You said it, Terran isn't dominating therefore it doesn't need a nerf.
@blizzard Nerfing things that are NOT dominating is NOT how you balance a game.
This. The new balance team is so disappointing. 1/8 Terran left in GSL. Only 2 Terrans made it into the playoffs at IEM. Terran is struggling so they nerf Terran even more.
PvsT is a joke right now. Fix it Blizzard.
It's hilarious that T of all races is complaining using this particular argument. I remember at least 2 GSLs with no Z in ro8.
The problem with Raven nerf is that Blizzard didn't wait (as always) few months before doing that. Few Maru games on IEM indicated that mass Ravens in the lategame would be imba as shit. Especially vs Solar games and vs Stats games. Basically you are bashin Blizzard now for doing their job- quick reaction. If they won't nerf it as fast, ladder would be broken by ppl like Avilo for example or other Terrans abusing that spell to the extreme.
Everyone that knows the game saw the "imba potential" in that thing. I was on IEM, and after day one it was my first thought- the next nerf will be Anti Armour Missile. And boom- few days later it is. I even met Elazer and talked with him about it- he had the same impression.
The problem with AAM is that it's so easy to spam, and really there is no counterplay. Solar tried splitting, but AAM is almost instant and even if he did Maru was throwing 6 spells at once, which basically covered every unit. Stop being biased. It was really imba.
This is only dmg nerf, so u actually need other units to finish the job. Its easy with -3 armour. And that's what Blizzard wanted. Raven as support unit. Not army of 20 ravens flying happily and wrecking everything as it was back in a day.Especially that the Auto Turret is back. It was the same philosophy that we saw behind nerfing Funghal Growth.
You said it, Terran isn't dominating therefore it doesn't need a nerf.
@blizzard Nerfing things that are NOT dominating is NOT how you balance a game.
This. The new balance team is so disappointing. 1/8 Terran left in GSL. Only 2 Terrans made it into the playoffs at IEM. Terran is struggling so they nerf Terran even more.
PvsT is a joke right now. Fix it Blizzard.
It's hilarious that T of all races is complaining using this particular argument. I remember at least 2 GSLs with no Z in ro8.
Btw, i dont mind the Zerg dropperlord nerf, i tink it s totally uncalled for, but whatever. I havent used the strat all that much in PVZ, barely ever in fact. Probably ladder stats are really scewed in ZvP due to many zergs taking lots of quick wins vs Protosses who didnt know how to defend vs a lingflood+droperlod. Now the win ratios on ladder should be up for a correction.
The knowledge, that protosses are going to play even more abusive 2 base allins, just makes me sad. At least some Ps recently chose to play it safe and invest a bit in early defense instead of teching behind a single zealot to whatever they picked out from the Great Book that day. 9 gate zealot charge + warprism should become real popular after the changes.
Last year the whine was "no Zerg has won a final in 2~ years!"
This year it is "only one terran in gsl season 1 top 8!"
What small sample size silliness statistic will people use next to balance whine?
At least PvZ winrates whine has had some statistics to back it up, even if it is only alligulac. (and PvT for a month or two until it evened out after the stalker nerf)
You said it, Terran isn't dominating therefore it doesn't need a nerf.
@blizzard Nerfing things that are NOT dominating is NOT how you balance a game.
This. The new balance team is so disappointing. 1/8 Terran left in GSL. Only 2 Terrans made it into the playoffs at IEM. Terran is struggling so they nerf Terran even more.
PvsT is a joke right now. Fix it Blizzard.
It's hilarious that T of all races is complaining using this particular argument. I remember at least 2 GSLs with no Z in ro8.
Btw, i dont mind the Zerg dropperlord nerf, i tink it s totally uncalled for, but whatever. I havent used the strat all that much in PVZ, barely ever in fact. Probably ladder stats are really scewed in ZvP due to many zergs taking lots of quick wins vs Protosses who didnt know how to defend vs a lingflood+droperlod. Now the win ratios on ladder should be up for a correction.
The knowledge, that protosses are going to play even more abusive 2 base allins, just makes me sad. At least some Ps recently chose to play it safe and invest a bit in early defense instead of teching behind a single zealot to whatever they picked out from the Great Book that day. 9 gate zealot charge + warprism should become real popular after the changes.
Watching players names now feels like there was really a huge difference in number of good T vs good Z and good P. Watching 2011 Global StarCraft II League August/Code S , best Toss is Huk and best Zerg is Julyzerg... while we have MVP Polt MMA ryung Bomber etc in Terran. MC and Nestea still won a lot during Terrancraft aera. In fact if instead of picking up results we watch Premier Tournaments wins we see: -2010 : 4 T 3Z 3P -2011 : 17T 8P 11Z. In Code S : 4T 2Z 1P. After MC, best toss was InCa, Tassadar, Huk, Naniwa...
So yep that was Terran-dominated and super terran-filled in korea, but the myth of utter dominance and complete imbalance are greatly exaggerated, competent Z and P won shit (vs koreans), from MC to Naniwa and Nestea to Stephano, and there was at time definitely a lack of good toss and zerg in the korean scene. Even good foreign protoss won more at times vs korean terrans than non-MC korean ones lol. That drastically changed the 2 next years.
I still don't know why this obvious and factual argument still stale some while the exact same argument concerning the foreign scene (there are no/very few good Terrans, but a shit ton of good Z) is widely accepted. Besides that, in Wol beginning, a good protoss macro play was very sophisticated, not intuitive, and needed a lot of time to develop (but yeah this was still better than letting them 4gate to win everything )
Btw BW history show same thing, the pool of good players per race is not magically equivalent at all times, and some things needs time to get figured out.
On March 09 2018 23:31 youngjiddle wrote: Last year the whine was "no Zerg has won a final in 2~ years!"
This year it is "only one terran in gsl season 1 top 8!"
What small sample size silliness statistic will people use next to balance whine?
At least PvZ winrates whine has had some statistics to back it up, even if it is only alligulac. (and PvT for a month or two until it evened out after the stalker nerf)
If GSL would be the only tournament where terran underperformed I'd agree with you. But every other tournament tells the same story - WCS Leipzig, IEM Pyeongchang, IEM Katowice - Terran has been underperforming at every tournament since 4.0
You said it, Terran isn't dominating therefore it doesn't need a nerf.
@blizzard Nerfing things that are NOT dominating is NOT how you balance a game.
This. The new balance team is so disappointing. 1/8 Terran left in GSL. Only 2 Terrans made it into the playoffs at IEM. Terran is struggling so they nerf Terran even more.
PvsT is a joke right now. Fix it Blizzard.
It's hilarious that T of all races is complaining using this particular argument. I remember at least 2 GSLs with no Z in ro8.
Btw, i dont mind the Zerg dropperlord nerf, i tink it s totally uncalled for, but whatever. I havent used the strat all that much in PVZ, barely ever in fact. Probably ladder stats are really scewed in ZvP due to many zergs taking lots of quick wins vs Protosses who didnt know how to defend vs a lingflood+droperlod. Now the win ratios on ladder should be up for a correction.
The knowledge, that protosses are going to play even more abusive 2 base allins, just makes me sad. At least some Ps recently chose to play it safe and invest a bit in early defense instead of teching behind a single zealot to whatever they picked out from the Great Book that day. 9 gate zealot charge + warprism should become real popular after the changes.
Ah yes, 2011 balance. The most relevant statistic for LoTV balance discussion.
On March 09 2018 15:02 hiroshOne wrote: The problem with AAM is that it's so easy to spam, and really there is no counterplay. Solar tried splitting, but AAM is almost instant and even if he did Maru was throwing 6 spells at once, which basically covered every unit. Stop being biased. It was really imba.
"Solar tried splitting"...he literally move-commanded into them.
Imagine if Maru never spread or split his air army and lost it all to parasitic bomb/fungal. Would make them look seriously overpowered as well.
Seriously though, I can understand the issues people are having with the raven, but the series against Solar wasn't a good example of it being overpowered. Solar mishandled every fight, no fungal/parasitic bomb, never spreading his air units etc
On March 09 2018 23:31 youngjiddle wrote: Last year the whine was "no Zerg has won a final in 2~ years!"
This year it is "only one terran in gsl season 1 top 8!"
What small sample size silliness statistic will people use next to balance whine?
At least PvZ winrates whine has had some statistics to back it up, even if it is only alligulac. (and PvT for a month or two until it evened out after the stalker nerf)
You're the one using a small sample size there bud. WCS leipzig had 1 terran in the ro8, GSL 1 terran in ro8, IEM had 2 in the ro12 etc. It's been over 6 months since a terran was even in a final. They've done badly in every tournament since 4.0.
On March 09 2018 15:02 hiroshOne wrote: The problem with AAM is that it's so easy to spam, and really there is no counterplay. Solar tried splitting, but AAM is almost instant and even if he did Maru was throwing 6 spells at once, which basically covered every unit. Stop being biased. It was really imba.
"Solar tried splitting"...he literally move-commanded into them.
Imagine if Maru never spread or split his air army and lost it all to parasitic bomb/fungal. Would make them look seriously overpowered as well.
Seriously though, I can understand the issues people are having with the raven, but the series against Solar wasn't a good example of it being overpowered. Solar mishandled every fight, no fungal/parasitic bomb, never spreading his air units etc
Wait, he move commanded INTO THEM? Isn't that intentional throwing? Please correct me if i'm wrong lol
On March 09 2018 15:02 hiroshOne wrote: The problem with AAM is that it's so easy to spam, and really there is no counterplay. Solar tried splitting, but AAM is almost instant and even if he did Maru was throwing 6 spells at once, which basically covered every unit. Stop being biased. It was really imba.
"Solar tried splitting"...he literally move-commanded into them.
Imagine if Maru never spread or split his air army and lost it all to parasitic bomb/fungal. Would make them look seriously overpowered as well.
Seriously though, I can understand the issues people are having with the raven, but the series against Solar wasn't a good example of it being overpowered. Solar mishandled every fight, no fungal/parasitic bomb, never spreading his air units etc
At 24:20 Solar pre-splits the army, but corruptors weren't on hold command and clumped up just as the ravens were about to launch their missiles. Solar tried splitting immediately. Maru had 8 ravens in his army, in two groups of four. At 26:15 Solar pre-splits again. This time without clumping units unintentionally.
Mass liberator: Nerfed in a week after 1 tournament. Raven AAM: Nerfed in a week after 1 tournament. Adepts in early LOTV: 'let the meta settle', nerfed after several months and it wasn't even enough, had to be nerfed again. 8 armor ultras: 'let the meta settle', stayed in the game for over a year, nerfed ultra is still super strong.
The Raven splash damage is required to punish players that like to mass air based deathballs. In fact they should increase the Raven damage even more, not decrease it.
On March 10 2018 07:30 KR_4EVR wrote: I have a simple, elegant solution to terran's lack of Area-of-Effect anti-air which would actually work:
First, give medivacs the ability to pick up seiged tanks. Second, let the tanks fire similarly air-2-air when inside medivac (like shrapnel cloud)
That might be one of the worst balance suggestions I've seen in my life. Siege Tanks boosting around destroying everything in the sky would completely break the game. It was bad enough when you could pick up and put down tanks while they were sieged.
EPT
2011 GSL Super Tournament/Final8
