Will Neeb's Domination of the WCS Circuit Continue in 2018?
Neeb dominated the WCS Circuit in 2017, lifting the championship trophy at three out of four events. Though he ended the year with a disappointing group stage elimination at the Global Finals, his impressive play against eventual champion Rogue left many to wonder if the American Protoss simply got unlucky. Now, with the 2018 season set to begin at WCS Leipzig, fans and progamers alike must wonder: Will Neeb continue to reign over the WCS Circuit in 2018?
Days before WCS Leipzig, Neeb swept through the field at the American LAN tournament Cheeseadelphia to win the $3000 first place prize. TeamLiquid.net talked with SC2 commentator and North American scene insider Ravi “feardragon” Pareek, who was on site to watch Neeb’s pre-WCS ‘warm up.’
*Answers have been edited and condensed.
Neeb showed vulnerability amid his domination at Cheeseadelphia
"Cheesadelphia was a game of who can take a game off of Neeb. He lost two games: One game he lost to Masa, and the other game he lost to himself. Neeb still had some close games, not only losing that one game to Masa—which I think was a very legitimate game to lose—but he also had a close game versus Cham. If you go look at game one of the finals of Cheeseadelphia, Cham looked really solid there."
Potential weaknesses versus cheese?
"Even going back to WCS Challenger for Leipzig versus JonSnow, Neeb actually lost a game (JonSnow cheesed him out admittedly). He definitely still seems vulnerable to certain things. I think he sometimes tries to play a little bit too greedy. You'll see him sort of just fall over because he's trying to play with the utmost greed so he can get away with the utmost advantages later on. But he'll get punished for that sometimes. This might be one of the best chances to upset Neeb, because Protoss generally struggle the most in figuring out new maps and how to handle them."
Burnout before BlizzCon 2017 and lessons for 2018
"I actually got to talk with Neeb at Kings of the North, which was maybe a few weeks before BlizzCon, and he just was burnt out. He was actually telling people at that event that he just didn't want to play StarCraft. He hadn’t been playing StarCraft THAT much leading up to BlizzCon—maybe he did a bit after the event. But he had worked himself so hard for the entire year up until Montreal that he lost a lot of his motivation, I think, to keep practicing as hard. I think that had a lot to do with his performance at BlizzCon.
I'm actually expecting him to have a much better handle of it in 2018. His strongest suit is that he doesn't make the same mistake many times. I think Neeb is better prepared in 2018 outside of StarCraft, in terms of mental fortitude and everything else."
Neeb’s 2017 wasn’t about dominance. It was about being CLUTCH.
"It's really interesting because when you go back, I'm pretty sure all of the WCS events that he won, he lost at least one series in the group stage, except maybe Montreal. In retrospect, Neeb was never one of these huge dominating favorites coming into any of these events. But he was able to be clutch in those moments and pull it out. Neeb has dropped games to JonSnow and Masa, and he's lost an entire series to players like Nerchio recently. So there's very much this sense of mortality that's been shown for Neeb. But Neeb at these online events or smaller events is very different from Neeb at a WCS event."
WCS Leipzig begins on Friday, Jan 26 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). Tune in at wcs.starcraft2.com to watch Neeb and the best players of the WCS Circuit compete for the first major championship of the year!
Interview and editing: Wax NA expertise: feardragon Photos: Jennika Ojala
I think EU will fight back stronger vs Neeb this year. Serral must win a WCS I feel and Elazer definitely wants another win too. Nerchio and Showtime want to find their 2016 form.
Then there is Scarlett who has been going back and forth with Neeb and wants that NA crown back. She will put a lot more focus on getting to BlizzCon than in the years before.
Overall Neeb definitely looks mortal right now, but it might change once he plays offline.
Damn, being forced to play that hour long game against Rogue, while not wanting to play Starcraft... no wonder he decided to lose the rest of the games so quickly.
On January 25 2018 20:16 Durnuu wrote: 10k MMR god Serral will beat Neeb easily. His ladder MMR speaks for itself.
Not to even mention his Aligulac points. Neeb will be lucky if he gets a map tbh.
I don't understand. They are pretty close in rating on Aligulac, being #1 and #2 respectively. Why would it be that Neeb is so far outmatched by Serral when it looks to me like it would be pretty even?
On January 25 2018 20:44 DBooN wrote: Damn, being forced to play that hour long game against Rogue, while not wanting to play Starcraft... no wonder he decided to lose the rest of the games so quickly.
It was weird, because he did really well in the first series, but he looked really bad in the later two series (and it was more than just Rogue and soO adapting to him).
With the new patch, it's tough to say how well he'll do, and I think he'll do well, but I don't know how much of a favourite he is to win.
On January 25 2018 20:16 Durnuu wrote: 10k MMR god Serral will beat Neeb easily. His ladder MMR speaks for itself.
Not to even mention his Aligulac points. Neeb will be lucky if he gets a map tbh.
I don't understand. They are pretty close in rating on Aligulac, being #1 and #2 respectively. Why would it be that Neeb is so far outmatched by Serral when it looks to me like it would be pretty even?
They are just trolling because Serral has a hard time wining an event even though he's been staying on top of the EU ladder for months now.
On January 26 2018 01:44 TheDougler wrote: Scarlett has been in rare form lately, I feel like she and Serral are both likely to give Neeb a run for his money.
I doubt it, ScarlettvP is a pretty broken matchup.
On January 26 2018 01:44 TheDougler wrote: Scarlett has been in rare form lately, I feel like she and Serral are both likely to give Neeb a run for his money.
I doubt it, ScarlettvP is a pretty broken matchup.
Yeah. She reminds me a little bit of IdrA in that she is so damn good, but then she lets the belief that Protoss is absolutely unbeatable get into her head so she just can't pull the wins out like she can against Zerg and Terran.
On January 26 2018 01:44 TheDougler wrote: Scarlett has been in rare form lately, I feel like she and Serral are both likely to give Neeb a run for his money.
I doubt it, ScarlettvP is a pretty broken matchup.
Yeah. She reminds me a little bit of IdrA in that she is so damn good, but then she lets the belief that Protoss is absolutely unbeatable get into her head so she just can't pull the wins out like she can against Zerg and Terran.
I bet you Idra has an-Arya like list of names and it’s tree people: HuK, Cruncher, MC...
For reals tho Scarlett’s mental game is miles better than Idra’s... though yeah it could be better.
On January 26 2018 01:44 TheDougler wrote: Scarlett has been in rare form lately, I feel like she and Serral are both likely to give Neeb a run for his money.
I doubt it, ScarlettvP is a pretty broken matchup.
Yeah. She reminds me a little bit of IdrA in that she is so damn good, but then she lets the belief that Protoss is absolutely unbeatable get into her head so she just can't pull the wins out like she can against Zerg and Terran.
I bet you Idra has an-Arya like list of names and it’s tree people: HuK, Cruncher, MC...
For reals tho Scarlett’s mental game is miles better than Idra’s... though yeah it could be better.
<div style="float: left; padding-right: 10px;"><img src="http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/misc/raviface.png"></div>"Cheesadelphia was a game of who can take a game off of Neeb. He lost two games: One game he lost to Masa, and the other game he lost to himself. Neeb still had some close games, not only losing that one game to Masa—which I think was a very legitimate game to lose—but he also had a close game versus Cham. If you go look at game one of the finals of Cheeseadelphia, Cham looked really solid there."
Could you please edit the link to go to our channel and not the one currently linked? Proper link is here . The one in the article is a content theft channel that uses bots to get games uploaded hours after the broadcast ends :\
On January 26 2018 01:44 TheDougler wrote: Scarlett has been in rare form lately, I feel like she and Serral are both likely to give Neeb a run for his money.
I doubt it, ScarlettvP is a pretty broken matchup.
Yeah. She reminds me a little bit of IdrA in that she is so damn good, but then she lets the belief that Protoss is absolutely unbeatable get into her head so she just can't pull the wins out like she can against Zerg and Terran.
Yeah, she plays so confident and smooth in ZvZ and ZvT even when she's way behind, and it's what wins her games, but she doesn't do the same against Protoss.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
There aren't even 50 pros in Korea
Including B teamers? I guess I am loosely using the term pro, but I would say there are at the very least 50 korean SC players who are better than him. And it was proven last grand finals. Foreigners had like 50% of the spots, by the time they went to the RO8 they only made up 25% and the only reason they were any % in the RO4 was they faced each other in the RO8.
I wouldn't mind if there were 2 foreign seeds, that the top 32 or 16 foreigners had to fight for, but giving them half the seeds to the grand finals screw better players out of money that they should be contending for.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
There aren't even 50 pros in Korea
Including B teamers? I guess I am loosely using the term pro, but I would say there are at the very least 50 korean SC players who are better than him. And it was proven last grand finals. Foreigners had like 50% of the spots, by the time they went to the RO8 they only made up 25% and the only reason they were any % in the RO4 was they faced each other in the RO8.
I wouldn't mind if there were 2 foreign seeds, that the top 32 or 16 foreigners had to fight for, but giving them half the seeds to the grand finals screw better players out of money that they should be contending for.
You're saying nonsense dude. Here's a ranking of Korean players: http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1&sort=&race=ptzrs&nats=KR. By the time you reach rank ~50, you're hanging out with people like Dandy, Soloist, HHQuanta who are amateurs who have around 6k MMR on the Korean server.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
You realize that he might be top 3 protoss KR included? :x He is for sure top 16 world when playing at his best.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
You realize that he might be top 3 protoss KR included? :x He is for sure top 16 world when playing at his best.
no way. Classic, Stats, Zest, herO, Dear and sOs are all much better than him. Since his Kespa Cup win he bombed out of every global tournament, WCS just gives the illusion that he's this untouchable god who can 4-0 peak INnoVation but the reality is different. last year he tried GSL and got destroyed in the qualifiers by Hurricane.
for the other races Inno, TY, Maru, Byun, Gumiho, aLive, Dark, Rogue, Solar and soO are definitely better than him so he barely can't be top 16.
My friends and I haven't been able to watch the tournament. We went to go get some snacks from the kitchen, Neeb is camping in his base. We come back, he's camping in his base. These games just aren't exciting anymore. I miss the glory days where there were you weren't able to set a timer for the game ending based on the bases and the builds. There's nothing exciting about oracle harass because it's nearly impossible to lose an oracle so there's no real micro feeling to it. My friends had to wake me up when the match was over and they were laughing saying they shouldn't of slept last night so they could take a nap now too.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
You realize that he might be top 3 protoss KR included? :x He is for sure top 16 world when playing at his best.
I am all for rooting for foreigners, but top 3protoss is laughable and top 16 even more so.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
There aren't even 50 pros in Korea
Including B teamers? I guess I am loosely using the term pro, but I would say there are at the very least 50 korean SC players who are better than him. And it was proven last grand finals. Foreigners had like 50% of the spots, by the time they went to the RO8 they only made up 25% and the only reason they were any % in the RO4 was they faced each other in the RO8.
I wouldn't mind if there were 2 foreign seeds, that the top 32 or 16 foreigners had to fight for, but giving them half the seeds to the grand finals screw better players out of money that they should be contending for.
You're saying nonsense dude. Here's a ranking of Korean players: http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1&sort=&race=ptzrs&nats=KR. By the time you reach rank ~50, you're hanging out with people like Dandy, Soloist, HHQuanta who are amateurs who have around 6k MMR on the Korean server.
You're nitpicking, which is all right. There are 50 koreans easily that are better than him. Retired, Active, B-team, 8 year old who haven't breached the scene. His results at WCS finals showed that he was basically donated a spot. 2017 WCS Global Finals. His qualifiers for WCS do as well. Foreign pros were always able to take games off Koreans, it doesn't mean that they were better than them. BO(entire map pool) I think there isn't a single Korean who wouldn't handle him with ease.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
You realize that he might be top 3 protoss KR included? :x He is for sure top 16 world when playing at his best.
Both of those statements are patently ridiculous. Let's give him plenty of credit because he's a great player, but we can relax with the hyperbole.
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
He tried only once and he lost to a fantastic PvP sniper in Hurricane twice. They were close series as well
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
He tried only once and he lost to a fantastic PvP sniper in Hurricane twice. They were close series as well
Hurricane has the same stats across the board for win ratio, to call him a PvP sniper is a reach. Yes, you're only talking about one WCS qualification and one WCS world embarrassment. Top foreigner bows out in groups. You can hype them all you want, they will be warming the bench everytime there are real players in the room
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
What makes you think I was referring to you?
I am the one person in this thread "hating" for sure. I don't actually hate or think he lacks skill, but these articles make it seem like he is on a level he clearly isn't. This was made clear in the global finals. Hell, the global finals showed that foreigners probably don't even deserve a single seat at the table if a blind korean grandmother with arthritis was available.
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
He tried only once and he lost to a fantastic PvP sniper in Hurricane twice. They were close series as well
Hurricane has the same stats across the board for win ratio, to call him a PvP sniper is a reach. Yes, you're only talking about one WCS qualification and one WCS world embarrassment. Top foreigner bows out in groups. You can hype them all you want, they will be warming the bench everytime there are real players in the room
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
What makes you think I was referring to you?
I am the one person in this thread "hating" for sure. I don't actually hate or think he lacks skill, but these articles make it seem like he is on a level he clearly isn't. This was made clear in the global finals. Hell, the global finals showed that foreigners probably don't even deserve a single seat at the table if a blind korean grandmother with arthritis was available.
Yes clearly deserve 0 spots when foreigners beat Stats, TY, Dark and Rogue in series at the global finals and actually knocked out Stats and Dark from the whole tournament.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
You realize that he might be top 3 protoss KR included? :x He is for sure top 16 world when playing at his best.
I am all for rooting for foreigners, but top 3protoss is laughable and top 16 even more so.
On January 27 2018 10:03 PuddleZerg wrote: You can wish and wish that Neeb will be your foreign hope. He'll fall like the rest of them when the times comes.
Considering this is a WCS thread, I'm not sure your post fits here.
Don't WCS events give points and seeding to the grand finals @ blizzcon? So, it would be valid. A foreign player is playing mediocre starcraft and will be gifted a spot in the finals this year. There are 50+ koreans that are better than him, but since he gets free seeding into the main event those 50 don't stand a shot. So, fluff articles like this, while giving press for the neglected WCS, just mislead people into thinking he is anywhere near the skill level of Korean pros.
There aren't even 50 pros in Korea
Including B teamers? I guess I am loosely using the term pro, but I would say there are at the very least 50 korean SC players who are better than him. And it was proven last grand finals. Foreigners had like 50% of the spots, by the time they went to the RO8 they only made up 25% and the only reason they were any % in the RO4 was they faced each other in the RO8.
I wouldn't mind if there were 2 foreign seeds, that the top 32 or 16 foreigners had to fight for, but giving them half the seeds to the grand finals screw better players out of money that they should be contending for.
You're saying nonsense dude. Here's a ranking of Korean players: http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1&sort=&race=ptzrs&nats=KR. By the time you reach rank ~50, you're hanging out with people like Dandy, Soloist, HHQuanta who are amateurs who have around 6k MMR on the Korean server.
You're nitpicking, which is all right. There are 50 koreans easily that are better than him. Retired, Active, B-team, 8 year old who haven't breached the scene. His results at WCS finals showed that he was basically donated a spot. 2017 WCS Global Finals. His qualifiers for WCS do as well. Foreign pros were always able to take games off Koreans, it doesn't mean that they were better than them. BO(entire map pool) I think there isn't a single Korean who wouldn't handle him with ease.
clearly you haven't been watching any starcraft for the last 3 or so years lol
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
He tried only once and he lost to a fantastic PvP sniper in Hurricane twice. They were close series as well
Hurricane has the same stats across the board for win ratio, to call him a PvP sniper is a reach. Yes, you're only talking about one WCS qualification and one WCS world embarrassment. Top foreigner bows out in groups. You can hype them all you want, they will be warming the bench everytime there are real players in the room
On January 28 2018 05:20 Psychobabas wrote:
On January 28 2018 04:52 NoobSkills wrote:
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
What makes you think I was referring to you?
I am the one person in this thread "hating" for sure. I don't actually hate or think he lacks skill, but these articles make it seem like he is on a level he clearly isn't. This was made clear in the global finals. Hell, the global finals showed that foreigners probably don't even deserve a single seat at the table if a blind korean grandmother with arthritis was available.
Yes clearly deserve 0 spots when foreigners beat Stats, TY, Dark and Rogue in series at the global finals and actually knocked out Stats and Dark from the whole tournament.
Foreigners were gifted about 50% of the spots at the global finals. The only reason one was in the RO4 was because they faced each other in the RO8 and neither would have made it out of the RO8, seeing as Soo 3-0'd special. So given about 50% of the spots for the event, Group play brought it down to 25%, RO8 should have eliminated them, but couldn't because of seeding. RO4 wipes them out with a easy 3-0 victory. Sure, they can take some series off a Korean pro, given the right matchup, and enough inflated numbers to do so, but they're clearly not on the Korean's level. From 50% of the seeding down to what would have been 0% after RO8 shows just how bad they are.
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
She was in the same qualifers Neeb was, wasn't she? Which one is still around?
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
She was in the same qualifers Neeb was, wasn't she? Which one is still around?
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
She was in the same qualifers Neeb was, wasn't she? Which one is still around?
Who is still around in Leipzig? Your point? ^^’
Inferior tournament? I wouldn't use anything other than standard play if I was in WCS Korea and Leipzig at the same time. You wouldn't want to give your enemies in WCS Korea a chance to study your play. Though I cannot say I watched the games.
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
She was in the same qualifers Neeb was, wasn't she? Which one is still around?
Who is still around in Leipzig? Your point? ^^’
Inferior tournament? I wouldn't use anything other than standard play if I was in WCS Korea and Leipzig at the same time. You wouldn't want to give your enemies in WCS Korea a chance to study your play. Though I cannot say I watched the games.
don't worry, we all know that you don't watch the game
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
I personally believe Neeb is top 16 when he's in shape. But he hasn't proved it with any actual results.
His winrate against koreans in the last year isn't convincing in the slightest. People just think he's on the same level because they nitpick the occasional bo3 or online tourney with a foreigner>korean win.
Foreigners have always been able to take the occasional bo3 or whatever. In 2015 Snute beat the reigning GSL and SSL champions on the same day. In 2013 Scarlett beat the reigning SSL champion etc
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
I personally believe Neeb is top 16 when he's in shape. But he hasn't proved it with any actual results.
His winrate against koreans in the last year isn't convincing in the slightest. People just think he's on the same level because they nitpick the occasional bo3 or online tourney with a foreigner>korean win.
Foreigners have always been able to take the occasional bo3 or whatever. In 2015 Snute beat the reigning GSL and SSL champions on the same day. In 2013 Scarlett beat the reigning SSL champion etc
The number of games he played offline against Koreans is hardly significant though. I could buy an argument that he's just barely among the top 16 best players in the world (or an argument that he's not quite)--he's certainly in that 15-20 range.
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
She was in the same qualifers Neeb was, wasn't she? Which one is still around?
Who is still around in Leipzig? Your point? ^^’
Inferior tournament? I wouldn't use anything other than standard play if I was in WCS Korea and Leipzig at the same time. You wouldn't want to give your enemies in WCS Korea a chance to study your play. Though I cannot say I watched the games.
don't worry, we all know that you don't watch the game
See you in WCS globals again, when he goes back to his bedroom after group play. Just because he can mop up some foreign events doesn't mean he is anywhere near the level of actual pro players.
On January 28 2018 04:16 Psychobabas wrote: Lots of neckbeard haters
Or disillusioned children who believe in the great foreign hope. He sure is an impressive foreigner, but he isn't even on the level of previous great foreigners. Beating up a bunch of other foreigners doesn't make you great. Calling him top 16 world when he couldn't even qualify for korea? There are already 32 players who did.
Scarlett is in GSL ro16 yet she got trashed by EU players . Neeb is top 16 world easily ^^
She was in the same qualifers Neeb was, wasn't she? Which one is still around?
Who is still around in Leipzig? Your point? ^^’
Inferior tournament? I wouldn't use anything other than standard play if I was in WCS Korea and Leipzig at the same time. You wouldn't want to give your enemies in WCS Korea a chance to study your play. Though I cannot say I watched the games.
don't worry, we all know that you don't watch the game
See you in WCS globals again, when he goes back to his bedroom after group play. Just because he can mop up some foreign events doesn't mean he is anywhere near the level of actual pro players.
He earned $166,000 last year in prize money buddy. He's a pro player. He's just not one of the absolute best pro players.
On January 28 2018 13:34 MilkDud wrote: The best foreigners: Neeb, Major and Scarlett.
sorry not realy Scarlett is not anymore on top. 16 player play better if you see the tournament. Serral and Showtime are the best foreigners.
Why are ppl always so bias... IMO there is a pretty obvious foreigner Top 10. some ranks within are debateable. but saying "those 2 europeans > rest" or "those 3 NA players > rest" is stupid.
Why Neeb over ShoWTimE? cuz their PvP is 50/50, and Neeb is still slightly better vs Zerg/Terran / has higher peaks. I view TRUE as a foreigner cuz he plays WCS for oever 2 years now. uthermal at 10 could be replaced depending on form of him / other players.
I believe there is a (significant) gap between top 5 and bottom 5. I do not agree with particular placement in your top 10, but I'll put the same 5 best players and pretty much the same 5 following them as you did.
EPT
Neeb dominated the WCS Circuit in 2017, lifting the championship trophy at three out of four events. Though he ended the year with a disappointing group stage elimination at the Global Finals, his impressive play against eventual champion Rogue left many to wonder if the American Protoss simply got unlucky. Now, with the 2018 season set to begin at WCS Leipzig, fans and progamers alike must wonder: Will Neeb continue to reign over the WCS Circuit in 2018?
2017 WCS Global Finals.
