This discussion came up in the Community Update thread and I thought it was interesting.
So I am not sure who invented it, but I am pretty sure that it was started by Polish zergs and 100% sure it was not invented by Inno.
But why did soO use the build vs TY in 2017 GSL S1 and say that it was recommended by Inno? Well because that was obviously what happned if soO says so and it makes sense.
Inno lost to that build (edit: actually a variation) a few weeks earlier in the Nation Wars 4 grand finals, when Nerchio used it against him on Vaani Research Station.
So Inno definitely thought it was a good build and recommended it to soO, but he did not invent it, he experienced it.
I don't know if Nerchio invented it, I think Elazer was more famous for it, but I also heard Matiz invented it. Variations of this build have been used by zergs since the LotV beta and it was refined over time. Hopefully Polish pros or fans know more so we can give credit to the correct person.
One thing is for sure though, Polish zergs popularised this build, regardless of who exactly invented it.
it's happened a few times when foreigners create things but koreans do them on a big stage like gsl and it becomes popular with the common public, example: mass oracle.
It is the Polish Zerg named Matiz who invented it if I'm not mistaken. I heard this information from a tournament stream after Elazer did it at Nation Wars.
On December 11 2017 22:35 Musicus wrote: But why did soO use the build vs TY in 2017 GSL S1 and say that it was recommended by Inno? Well because that was obviously what happned if soO says so and it makes sense.
1. terran player loses to some awful-on-average build on ladder 2. terran player thinks it's "amazingly broken" (insert subconscious pro terran sarcasm) and recommends build to all soon-to-be unfortunate zerg friends 3. terran player watches the build fail in a pro setting after it's obviously been figured out days prior, perhaps forgetting to retract the advice about the build 4. either case, terran wins
The super quick ravager rush? The first person I ever saw using it was Catz during the LotV beta. I think they nerfed the ravager in response to it, if I'm recalling correctly.
On December 11 2017 22:35 Musicus wrote: But why did soO use the build vs TY in 2017 GSL S1 and say that it was recommended by Inno? Well because that was obviously what happned if soO says so and it makes sense.
1. terran player loses to some awful-on-average build on ladder 2. terran player thinks it's "amazingly broken" (insert subconscious pro terran sarcasm) and recommends build to all soon-to-be unfortunate zerg friends 3. terran player watches the build fail in a pro setting after it's obviously been figured out days prior, perhaps forgetting to retract the advice about the build 4. either case, terran wins
On December 12 2017 01:19 Rehio wrote: The super quick ravager rush? The first person I ever saw using it was Catz during the LotV beta. I think they nerfed the ravager in response to it, if I'm recalling correctly.
Oh yeah I remember Catz streams where he experimented with this, I also remember a burrow roach build from him.
I guess it's hard to give credit to a single person since there are so many variations, but it seems like Matiz inventing the earliest version with a 12 pool is correct, according to Nerchio.
On December 11 2017 22:35 Musicus wrote: But why did soO use the build vs TY in 2017 GSL S1 and say that it was recommended by Inno? Well because that was obviously what happned if soO says so and it makes sense.
1. terran player loses to some awful-on-average build on ladder 2. terran player thinks it's "amazingly broken" (insert subconscious pro terran sarcasm) and recommends build to all soon-to-be unfortunate zerg friends 3. terran player watches the build fail in a pro setting after it's obviously been figured out days prior, perhaps forgetting to retract the advice about the build 4. either case, terran wins
1. terran player loses to some awful-on-average build on ladder 2. terran player thinks it's "amazingly broken" (insert subconscious pro terran sarcasm) and recommends build to all soon-to-be unfortunate zerg friends 3. terran player watches the build fail in a pro setting after it's obviously been figured out days prior, perhaps forgetting to retract the advice about the build 4. either case, terran wins
almost never trust a terran~
my zerg friend recommended that I should play double reac factory 2 base cyclone all in vZ. should I trust him? he did leave a few sarcastic remarks tho.
On December 11 2017 22:35 Musicus wrote: But why did soO use the build vs TY in 2017 GSL S1 and say that it was recommended by Inno? Well because that was obviously what happned if soO says so and it makes sense.
1. terran player loses to some awful-on-average build on ladder 2. terran player thinks it's "amazingly broken" (insert subconscious pro terran sarcasm) and recommends build to all soon-to-be unfortunate zerg friends 3. terran player watches the build fail in a pro setting after it's obviously been figured out days prior, perhaps forgetting to retract the advice about the build 4. either case, terran wins
On December 11 2017 22:35 Musicus wrote: But why did soO use the build vs TY in 2017 GSL S1 and say that it was recommended by Inno? Well because that was obviously what happned if soO says so and it makes sense.
1. terran player loses to some awful-on-average build on ladder 2. terran player thinks it's "amazingly broken" (insert subconscious pro terran sarcasm) and recommends build to all soon-to-be unfortunate zerg friends 3. terran player watches the build fail in a pro setting after it's obviously been figured out days prior, perhaps forgetting to retract the advice about the build 4. either case, terran wins
On December 11 2017 22:35 Musicus wrote: But why did soO use the build vs TY in 2017 GSL S1 and say that it was recommended by Inno? Well because that was obviously what happned if soO says so and it makes sense.
1. terran player loses to some awful-on-average build on ladder 2. terran player thinks it's "amazingly broken" (insert subconscious pro terran sarcasm) and recommends build to all soon-to-be unfortunate zerg friends 3. terran player watches the build fail in a pro setting after it's obviously been figured out days prior, perhaps forgetting to retract the advice about the build 4. either case, terran wins
I first saw it when voltz took a game off ByuN on ulrena in early-mid 2016 and I used it for awhile on Ruins of Endion (albeit with a sub optimal build order), but i heard matiz popularized it in europe later before elazer used it in wesg/nation wars the next year
I don't think anyone " made it up ", it is a build that is pretty straight forward in your face as a build order to any experienced Zerg, it's not like we're cracking the f***ing davinci code by rushing roaches... I can't believe this is even a thread.
On December 12 2017 09:40 Scarlett` wrote: I first saw it when voltz took a game off ByuN on ulrena in early-mid 2016 and I used it for awhile on Ruins of Endion (albeit with a sub optimal build order), but i heard matiz popularized it in europe later before elazer used it in wesg/nation wars the next year
On December 12 2017 10:09 GGzerG wrote: I don't think anyone " made it up ", it is a build that is pretty straight forward in your face as a build order to any experienced Zerg, it's not like we're cracking the f***ing davinci code by rushing roaches... I can't believe this is even a thread.
Pretty much this...
That said... I was doing something akin to this rush on the LotV Community Alpha Mod on the first week when it opened, I was also doing variations of Ravager builds with dropperlords, load 8 ravagers into a couple ovies and harass Protoss players min lines with em. it was stupidly funny, even more so for how incredibly large and OP the bile AoE radius was back then ahahaha
EPT
