EPTBut anyway this is a waste of time as your assume I must have bad criteria because I came to a different conclusion.
Korea Weekly - August 6th - GSL Group Selections - Page 2
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
But anyway this is a waste of time as your assume I must have bad criteria because I came to a different conclusion. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Well typically i wouldn't do that because it is flawed, but you stated that Innovation isn't even close to being considered, that seems extremely ridiculous so the only conclusion i can have is that your system is bad. (or rather the execution) edit: but yes criteria like: "Then I judged Innovation and refinement. What builds/styles did a player innovate (in the sense that he was the first to do a build consistently, players credited that player with the build and/or players copied him after he had done it - like Stephano and the 3 hatch) Then there was refinement. Nestea created and refined Muta ling/bling, but DRG took that refinement a step further than that. Generally I had to measure the degrees of refinement and innovation" A lot of your criteria works like that btw, extremely subjective ratings nobody can be sure you were consistent on by any means. I mean: Then I added in X factors for each player: Clutch, composure, versatility, play style, series planning. You wanna tell me you can rate each players reasonably. How much did these things matter? For Inno to not be even close to consideration i can only imagine that all these subjective things (so not results) play against him. I would love to hear your reasoning, simply linking your blog and pretending that is an argument is weak. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
And even if u did devise such a methodology, are you catching too many irrelevant data or missing out on other equally important unverifiable meta data that renders reliance on such data alone unreliable (e.g. Inno had a solid run in Tournament X, but his ELO high opponents were unwell and not performing to their usual standards)? Using such a methodology to tennis, there's a high chance that Djokovic and Nadal could actually rank higher as Federer as GOAT (they won more Grand Slams against each other, whilst Federer nick a lot of wins against 'weaker' opponent before their peak era). Which is, regardless subjective or objective, quite a hard opinion to sell. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On August 08 2017 01:03 stuchiu wrote: I've never been biased beyond making jokes. All I did was use this to judge players. That's it. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/482944-the-process-of-creating-the-top-15-greatest-list a quote from that blog Basically for me it was all about context, the runs, the metas, who they played, how the played and the degrees therewithin. so basically bias | ||
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Alarak'smanservant
35 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On August 08 2017 05:42 Alarak'smanservant wrote: Sorry what? Inno was only underperforming during the blink era. During bl/infestor he was doing pretty damn well, so no he is not only strong when terran is strong. Also last year. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
Terran wasn't performing badly last year | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Last year was League year for Inno. Nothing to do with balance or patches or even Starcraft. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On August 08 2017 08:08 Charoisaur wrote: Terran wasn't performing badly last year Yeah but Inno was. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
Yes but that doesn't support the argument that Inno can't win when terran is weak because terran wasn't weak. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On August 08 2017 08:40 Charoisaur wrote: Yes but that doesn't support the argument that Inno can't win when terran is weak because terran wasn't weak. Yeah I'm just supporting the argument that Inno sux. | ||
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curufinwe_wins
68 Posts
Successive SSL rounds by STATS and DARK have shown that Classic right now is just a bit too predictable... His mechanics are great. His understanding of the matchups are great... But he just doesn't have the late game or variety that makes top tier protoss so scary to deal with. Too defensive, I would say. Also Stats rofl-stomped Inno in their SSL this week (read yesterday)... Inno is still better, don't get me wrong... But I think you have to take Stats just a tiny bit ahead of Classic atm for top 'toss in the world. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Is he a patch terran? kinda, I guess. But that doesn't take away from his talent. He plays perfect terran that's it. (although I do give bonus points to players that dominated during times of severe imbalance against them, ByuL, Life, Maru etc) | ||
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curufinwe_wins
68 Posts
On August 08 2017 10:10 Fango wrote: Inno is the kind of player that focuses on perfect play. He practices the most standard terran builds until he makes no errors. That means that when terran is favoured in a matchup, he looks unstoppable. When terran is at a disadvantage he isn't as dominant. Is he a patch terran? kinda, I guess. But that doesn't take away from his talent. He plays perfect terran that's it. (although I do give bonus points to players that dominated during times of severe imbalance against them, ByuL, Life, Maru etc) He also is far less innovative and more predictable than any of the other god-terrans... Which, yeah, is actually a knock against him... A few weeks ago in SSL we actually saw him mix up builds and do some crazy shit and I thought to myself... "If this guy did this just a bit more often... He really would be unstoppable, and I would like watching his games soo much more". He is the macro/multitasking god of SC2... Just untouchable in his control of everything... If not for Byun, we might even talk about his insanely good micro as well (poor Byun man... his micro has become almost a crutch for him in not rounding out his play...) The Robot indeed. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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curufinwe_wins
68 Posts
On August 08 2017 12:19 RKC wrote: I don't see Inno as less of a 'micro god' than Byun or Maru. It's just that he chooses to focus most of his energies on macro (instead of 'engagements' which can be a risky gamble). That's what he thinks is the optimal play to maximise his chances to win. In that sense, he's a Machine. And a bit like Flash (whose micro is also quite underrated). Inno is realistically a micro god... It is just that Byun is a Titan of Micro... I mean it actually isn't fair to anyone else in the game that Byun is so next level... It is almost laughable watching the other "four horsemen" try Byun'ng (Maru doing 3 rax is lolzy bad by comparison), and lets be real here... Those guys are already insanely good. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 08 2017 12:26 curufinwe_wins wrote: Inno is realistically a micro god... It is just that Byun is a Titan of Micro... I mean it actually isn't fair to anyone else in the game that Byun is so next level... It is almost laughable watching the other "four horsemen" try Byun'ng (Maru doing 3 rax is lolzy bad by comparison), and lets be real here... Those guys are already insanely good. Inno's micro is amazing, it's just that he rarely needs to show it because his style revolves around efficient trades into overwhelming force instead of specific unit control. Now and then he will bust out some incredible splitting against Zerg, but that's about all we typically get to see from him in terms of micro. Yes, ByuN has the best micro out of the Four Horsemen (though his splitting is actually quite poor), but while Inno's style is less flashy, it wins. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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curufinwe_wins
68 Posts
On August 08 2017 12:34 pvsnp wrote: Inno's micro is amazing, it's just that he rarely needs to show it because his style revolves around efficient trades into overwhelming force instead of specific unit control. Now and then he will bust out some incredible splitting against Zerg, but that's about all we typically get to see from him in terms of micro. Yes, ByuN has the best micro out of the Four Horsemen (though his splitting is actually quite poor), but while Inno's style is less flashy, it wins. Agreed... Inno is, in fact, arguably the only other person who has pulled off ByuN's own builds with similar success (although again Inno doesn't really roll that way very much.) | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On August 08 2017 12:39 curufinwe_wins wrote: Agreed... Inno is, in fact, arguably the only other person who has pulled off ByuN's own builds with similar success (although again Inno doesn't really roll that way very much.) Yep, some of Inno's 2/1/1 pushes just straight up win the game (against ByuL in GSL Season 1 for example) which is something I've really only seen ByuN pull off. I find it mildly interesting that ByuN doesn't try and copy Inno more, for all that he idolizes him. While both of them are usually very aggressive, Inno has shown the ability to sit back and turtle into lategame to great success, while ByuN seems permanently stuck on the early-midgame aggro style. | ||
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