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4 Posts
With four Best of 7’s on the slate, all four teams of VSL Season 2 Team League gathered to crown a champion. Notably absent was  ByuN, who skipped the event to attend HomeStory Cup. As a result, Team  Leenock would start the first match and any others they played down 0-1.
LR1 - Team Leenock vs Team Super
 Hurricane opened up with double oracles, but didn't get much done until an immortal drop and zealot harass on Super's third killed 11 workers. From there Hurricane got the faster mothership and rolled to victory.
Next up was Creator. After a relatively passive early game, Hurricane put constant pressure with drops and run by's, gaining a 30 supply worker lead. Things looked dicey for Hurricane after losing a virtually maxed out fight, but he recalled to safety and reloaded with zealots to take the game.
Down 2-1, Patience came out for a third PvP, but suffered the same fate. He harassed constantly with blink stalkers, but Hurricane defended, largely in part to dark templars, and notched his third win with an attack on Patience's third.
Having reached four bases, Curious built a supply lead with baneling runby's and a hydralisk attack on Hurricane's natural. One good engagement turned that all around for Hurricane, who used archons/immortals and well placed storms to complete the all-kill.
Winners' Finals - Team INnoVation vs Team soO
Pet's went for a ling flood to start the series, but was thwarted by Impact's five evolution chamber wall. Safe at home, Impact forced hydralisks with mutalisks before administering the coup de grace with roach/ravager.
Impact looked to be heading towards a victory when his roach/ling attack off 46 drones killed 25 of Ryung's workers, but he lost his army in the process, setting Ryung up for fatal counterattack.
Ryung's initial reaper was trapped by probes, but he hardly missed a beat after that. He defended Hush's blink pressure and, while he did not kill Hush's third with his own, he ended up with a supply lead. A terrible shade by Hush was all she wrote as Ryung made it 2-1.
soO gave Ryung his first loss of the tournament by overcoming the Terran's mech play on Whirlwind. Ryung looked poised to take his seventh straight with of Team League, but soO only lost his natural to Ryung's push and was able to assemble a overwhelming roach/hydra army.
With the series tied, Team INnoVation turned to their captain. soO’s decision to go ling/bane/muta stranded INnoVation with some relatively useless tanks, but INnoVation never allowed soO to establish his fourth and gradually choked him out with constant parade pushes.
One defeat away from the losers' bracket, Classic stepped up to turn his team's fortunes around. Classic opened oracle, but couldn't get damage done with that or a small gateway force. INnoVation simply built up a bio/mine army that, when joined by liberators, was too much for Classic to handle.
Losers' Finals - Team soO vs Team Leenock
Next up was the recently defeated Team soO and the resilient, three man Team Leenock.
The beneficiary of ByuN's forfeit, Classic promptly dropped his first actual game to tie the series. He opted for phoenix/adept, but lost his prism while his main attack was deflected. Ahead on supply, jjakji easily closed things out from there.
Hush put Team soO back in the lead on Ascension to Aiur. An adept push killed 38 workers while forcing a lift on jjakji's natural. His focus turned to jjakji's third where the two players fought, with Hush's stalkers key in overcoming jjakji's liberators.
With the player on even bases, but Hurricane on greater supply, Hurricane's move into dark templars paid dividends as he dismantled Hush's economy. With his lone observer with his army and his robo unpowered, Hush went for a last ditch attack that fell short.
Impact put an end to Hurricane's run with hydra/ling/bane play. He killed Hurricane's fourth and kept him pinned down on three bases. He never let up the pressure, sniping high templars while assembling an unstoppable army that sent the match to a sixth game.
Impact got his natural up before Leenock, but having scouted Leenock's faster third, he went for an ill-fated zergling runby that put him in a hole. Having moved into roaches faster, Leenock powered forward and won the roach vs roach stage of the game to take it to an ace match.
The second ZvZ of the series also went Leenock's way. Leenock’s nydus worm hit just as soO was teching into mutalisks. Queens, disgorged into soO's main, were quickly joined by roaches. soO tried to hold, but it was an impossible feat. The victory, Team Leenock's second of the day, pitted them against Team INnoVation in the finals.
Grand Finals - Team INnoVation vs Team Leenock
With three matches out of the way, the final two teams prepared for the last match of VSL Season 2. Leenock kicked us off by erasing ByuN's forfeit with another nydus worm against Ryung on Whirlwind. Ryung tried to surround the nydus with engineering bays, but could only limit, not stop the flow of units. Leenock's queens survived long enough for him to get a second nydus up and end the game.
With the series tied, INnoVation stepped up for his team. Leenock went for the en vogue hydra/ling/bane style, but INnoVation stomped it with a tank push on Leenock's fourth that snowballed into a victory.
Hurricane went for a pylon rush and stargate on Newkirk Precinct, but INnoVation weathered the storm. He responded with a banshee that killed 24 workers to take a big lead and held frim from there.
jjakji came out as the last line of defense, but fared no better against INnoVation. jjakji's first push gave him a minor advantage and he survived with all three bases intact when INnoVation replied, but INnoVation's lead steadily widened until a siege on jjakji's third gave INnoVation his third straight win, the series by a 4-1 score and the VSL Season 2 Team League championship. This victory prompted a euphoric ceremony from the ardent Terran.
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Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time
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He is so clutch when it comes to teamleague (or finals)
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man you can really just feel the happiness in Innovation's eyes as he rushes to take off that headset!
wait....
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United States1882 Posts
On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Proleague
Seventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2.
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Valiant effort by 3 man team Leenock
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On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, Sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2.
Yeah but looking only at the wins is not fair because INnoVation (and Maru too) played one less Proleague season than most other players. In terms of winrate he's 2nd behind sOs.
Also he has a lot of other teamleague achievements; winning GSTL, ATSC, NW and now VSL.
I agree though that he's not the undoubtely greatest teamleague player because Maru and sOs are very strong contenders for that title.
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On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, Sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2.
most all-kills and 2nd highest WR in PL, 2 proleague trophies, a GSTL trophy (where he was literally the "super ace"), 2 ACT trophies and 12 all-kills total on liquipedia.
I'm interested in 5 players that are more valuable in teamleague formats than INnoVation.
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On July 22 2017 00:09 RCCar wrote:
man you can really just feel the happiness in Innovation's eyes as he rushes to take off that headset!
wait....
On July 21 2017 23:59 pvsnp wrote:
"This is my happy face."
Best comments
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On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2.
Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them.
This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player.
Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently.
And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line.
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United States1882 Posts
On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now thid 2017 VSTL. Obviously MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently.
I don't think VSTL really matters compared to those other team leagues (in prestige or difficulty) and I made that original statement based off a single statistic and memory, which was likely insufficient. I'm willing to amend the opinion that he isn't top five, but, in terms of proleague exclusively, I feel like Zest, Stats. Maru, sOs and herO were all more valuable to their teams than Inno was to SKT.
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On July 22 2017 01:04 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now thid 2017 VSTL. Obviously MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. I don't think VSTL really matters compared to those other team leagues (in prestige or difficulty) and I made that original statement based off a single statistic and memory, which was likely insufficient. I'm willing to amend the opinion that he isn't top five, but, in terms of proleague exclusively, I feel like Zest, Stats. Maru, sOs and herO were all more valuable to their teams than Inno was to SKT.
Of course they were, but that's because SKT's proleague line-up was almost exclusively star players.
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On July 22 2017 01:04 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now thid 2017 VSTL. Obviously MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. I don't think VSTL really matters compared to those other team leagues (in prestige or difficulty) and I made that original statement based off a single statistic and memory, which was likely insufficient. I'm willing to amend the opinion that he isn't top five, but, in terms of proleague exclusively, I feel like Zest, Stats. Maru, sOs and herO were all more valuable to their teams than Inno was to SKT.
To SKT, certainly. Because SKT had an amazingly stacked lineup, though Inno was undeniably an important part.
To STX SouL, he was the keystone, the lynchpin, the foundation of their miracle run from last place to their first and only championship over SKT, KT, and Woongjin Stars, the strongest teams in 2013 Proleague. In every round but one that season, when INnoVation won he brought victory, and when he lost his team went down to black defeat. He was #1 in winrate that season, and none of his teammates even broke Top 10.
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I wish Liquipedia had a view that showed the number of team-leagues (particularly premier team-leagues) that each player has won.
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Ryung went 7-2 with an all kill. Not a bad run.
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INno is so good he wins team events alone now according to title ^^
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On July 22 2017 02:47 [PkF] Wire wrote:
INno is so good he wins team events alone now according to title ^^
Bonjwa
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On July 22 2017 02:47 [PkF] Wire wrote:
INno is so good he wins team events alone now according to title ^^
Tips For Any Teamleague:
1. Get INnoVation
2. Win by virtue of (1)
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Australia18228 Posts
On July 22 2017 02:55 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 02:47 [PkF] Wire wrote:
INno is so good he wins team events alone now according to title ^^ Tips For Any Teamleague: 1. Get INnoVation 2. Win by virtue of (1)
Don't forget
3. Don't send out Solar
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Ryung did all the dirty work for his team 
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On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2.
i always like looking at that page mainly to see rain being 14-8 in ace matches and some how Roro being number 10 on that list when not playing 2 seasons of proleauge
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I'm probably adding stuff up wrong, but that liquipedia page on top proleague players doesn't seem up to date? Or just doesn't include the 2016 (lotv) proleague?
For example for Stats it says 67-39 aka 63% winrate, but having gone through each year his total is 99-54, giving him 65% winrate
For Maru it says is 57-35 and 62%, which was his score from HoTS (2014-15). His total including 2016 is 79-39, which is 67%
It gives sOs 92-47 as well, which should be 110-63 aka 64%
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great tournament for ryung
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Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them.
This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player.
Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently.
And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back in 2013 and dragged that team across the finish line.
wow, in just one post you've completly annihilated the team liquid writers efforts to constantly diminish innovations results while also showing the blatant hypocrisy. good job man!
in other news, congrats to innovation and the people that were fortunate enough to get picked onto his team!
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On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player. Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line.
>9-10 in Proleague
>Top 3 teamleague player
Sure, if you say so. Did anyone tell him Taeja retired a year ago and doesn't need TL going to bat for him anymore?
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On July 22 2017 15:37 bduddy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player. Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line. >9-10 in Proleague >Top 3 teamleague player Sure, if you say so. Did anyone tell him Taeja retired a year ago and doesn't need TL going to bat for him anymore?
If you've not watched pre 2014 SC2 you're excused. If you did, you're twisting history. IPL TAC was by far the most impressive single man carrying of a team in a team league in sc2. That alone puts TaeJa top 3.
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Not having drg as top tier team league player in history rip
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United States1882 Posts
On July 22 2017 11:08 ZertoN wrote:Show nested quote +
Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them.
This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player.
Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently.
And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back in 2013 and dragged that team across the finish line.
wow, in just one post you've completly annihilated the team liquid writers efforts to constantly diminish innovations results while also showing the blatant hypocrisy. good job man! in other news, congrats to innovation and the people that were fortunate enough to get picked onto his team!
In a recent article I implied that INnoVation is the closest thing in SC2 to a bonjwa (the only reason isn't his resume, it's that I don't think it's possible for a bonjwa to exist in SC2). Recently, another writer dubbed Inno the "eternal Terran" for his longevity and excellence over that time period. The fact that you think there is some great TL Writers conspiracy to promote/devalue players is just paranoid.
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Mizenhauer may I have the link of your article?
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United States1882 Posts
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Russian Federation394 Posts
where am I supposed to get the wiki link?? Can't even see the results
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On July 22 2017 15:59 imre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 15:37 bduddy wrote:On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player. Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line. >9-10 in Proleague >Top 3 teamleague player Sure, if you say so. Did anyone tell him Taeja retired a year ago and doesn't need TL going to bat for him anymore? If you've not watched pre 2014 SC2 you're excused. If you did, you're twisting history. IPL TAC was by far the most impressive single man carrying of a team in a team league in sc2. That alone puts TaeJa top 3.
Who cares? it's one tournament. You cannot just look at one tournament and pretend it's worth much more than constant good results in arguably more important teamleagues. This constant Taja circlejerk is absurd, i hate it.
IPLTAC was even mostly online, no? It's funny that we usually don't value these formats as much, but ofc when Taeja does somethign there it's different. I think his weekly wins back in the day were also more impressive than winning GSLs.
Give me a break.
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On July 22 2017 09:33 Fango wrote:
I'm probably adding stuff up wrong, but that liquipedia page on top proleague players doesn't seem up to date? Or just doesn't include the 2016 (lotv) proleague?
For example for Stats it says 67-39 aka 63% winrate, but having gone through each year his total is 99-54, giving him 65% winrate
For Maru it says is 57-35 and 62%, which was his score from HoTS (2014-15). His total including 2016 is 79-39, which is 67%
It gives sOs 92-47 as well, which should be 110-63 aka 64%
I believe the statistic for the top overall proleague players doesn't include wins in the allkill format while the statistics for the individual Proleague seasons do.
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On July 22 2017 15:59 imre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 15:37 bduddy wrote:On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player. Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line. >9-10 in Proleague >Top 3 teamleague player Sure, if you say so. Did anyone tell him Taeja retired a year ago and doesn't need TL going to bat for him anymore? If you've not watched pre 2014 SC2 you're excused. If you did, you're twisting history. IPL TAC was by far the most impressive single man carrying of a team in a team league in sc2. That alone puts TaeJa top 3.
Maru's 22-4 record in 2016 proleague against mostly top tier opponents who specificially prepared for him is surely more impressive.
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On July 23 2017 20:54 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 09:33 Fango wrote:
I'm probably adding stuff up wrong, but that liquipedia page on top proleague players doesn't seem up to date? Or just doesn't include the 2016 (lotv) proleague?
For example for Stats it says 67-39 aka 63% winrate, but having gone through each year his total is 99-54, giving him 65% winrate
For Maru it says is 57-35 and 62%, which was his score from HoTS (2014-15). His total including 2016 is 79-39, which is 67%
It gives sOs 92-47 as well, which should be 110-63 aka 64% I believe the statistic for the top overall proleague players doesn't include wins in the allkill format while the statistics for the individual Proleague seasons do.
I'm not 100% sure on that either. Maru has 26 allkill wins and 79 overall. So it should have him at 53 wins if they aren't include right? It just seems odd that the total it lists is his score from the 2014-15 seasons (57-35).
Even so, why is allkill not included? It was a big part of proleague. Removing it completely changes the order of top players
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On July 23 2017 21:48 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2017 20:54 Charoisaur wrote:On July 22 2017 09:33 Fango wrote:
I'm probably adding stuff up wrong, but that liquipedia page on top proleague players doesn't seem up to date? Or just doesn't include the 2016 (lotv) proleague?
For example for Stats it says 67-39 aka 63% winrate, but having gone through each year his total is 99-54, giving him 65% winrate
For Maru it says is 57-35 and 62%, which was his score from HoTS (2014-15). His total including 2016 is 79-39, which is 67%
It gives sOs 92-47 as well, which should be 110-63 aka 64% I believe the statistic for the top overall proleague players doesn't include wins in the allkill format while the statistics for the individual Proleague seasons do. Even so, why is allkill not included? It was a big part of proleague. Removing it completely changes the order of top players
I don't know but for the most wins award by Proleague allkill wins aren't included either.
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On July 22 2017 15:59 imre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 15:37 bduddy wrote:On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player. Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line. >9-10 in Proleague >Top 3 teamleague player Sure, if you say so. Did anyone tell him Taeja retired a year ago and doesn't need TL going to bat for him anymore? If you've not watched pre 2014 SC2 you're excused. If you did, you're twisting history. IPL TAC was by far the most impressive single man carrying of a team in a team league in sc2. That alone puts TaeJa top 3.
It was extremely impressive, yes, the single most impressive teamleague achievement made by anyone, even.
But it was only once, and it was online. It simply doesn't compare to literally years of teamleague titles and all-kills.
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On July 24 2017 00:35 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2017 21:48 Fango wrote:On July 23 2017 20:54 Charoisaur wrote:On July 22 2017 09:33 Fango wrote:
I'm probably adding stuff up wrong, but that liquipedia page on top proleague players doesn't seem up to date? Or just doesn't include the 2016 (lotv) proleague?
For example for Stats it says 67-39 aka 63% winrate, but having gone through each year his total is 99-54, giving him 65% winrate
For Maru it says is 57-35 and 62%, which was his score from HoTS (2014-15). His total including 2016 is 79-39, which is 67%
It gives sOs 92-47 as well, which should be 110-63 aka 64% I believe the statistic for the top overall proleague players doesn't include wins in the allkill format while the statistics for the individual Proleague seasons do. Even so, why is allkill not included? It was a big part of proleague. Removing it completely changes the order of top players I don't know but for the most wins award by Proleague allkill wins aren't included either.
It's unfair for good players on bad teams (e.g Jin Air always gets to playoffs so Maru has a chance to get an all-kill / 4 points at once. Samsung rarely does, yet RorO, Dear, etc, were pretty good teamleague players, just pretty much never got to play in all-kill)
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On July 24 2017 03:55 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2017 00:35 Charoisaur wrote:On July 23 2017 21:48 Fango wrote:On July 23 2017 20:54 Charoisaur wrote:On July 22 2017 09:33 Fango wrote:
I'm probably adding stuff up wrong, but that liquipedia page on top proleague players doesn't seem up to date? Or just doesn't include the 2016 (lotv) proleague?
For example for Stats it says 67-39 aka 63% winrate, but having gone through each year his total is 99-54, giving him 65% winrate
For Maru it says is 57-35 and 62%, which was his score from HoTS (2014-15). His total including 2016 is 79-39, which is 67%
It gives sOs 92-47 as well, which should be 110-63 aka 64% I believe the statistic for the top overall proleague players doesn't include wins in the allkill format while the statistics for the individual Proleague seasons do. Even so, why is allkill not included? It was a big part of proleague. Removing it completely changes the order of top players I don't know but for the most wins award by Proleague allkill wins aren't included either. It's unfair for good players on bad teams (e.g Jin Air always gets to playoffs so Maru has a chance to get an all-kill / 4 points at once. Samsung rarely does, yet RorO, Dear, etc, were pretty good teamleague players, just pretty much never got to play in all-kill)
True. But when talking about % winrates, I think allkill should be included. Maru goes up to 67%, aka number 1, in terms of winrates if you include allkill (I think, I haven't added up every player's results)
Worth noting that it's harder to get points from allkill, as it's normally against better-than-average teams. The playoffs were also the most imortant part of the season for the those that got there. Players that did well in them were the most valuable ones
On July 24 2017 03:37 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2017 15:59 imre wrote:On July 22 2017 15:37 bduddy wrote:On July 22 2017 01:01 pvsnp wrote:On July 22 2017 00:13 mizenhauer wrote:On July 22 2017 00:02 Bagration wrote:
Greatest SC2 teamleague player of all time http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ProleagueSeventh on wins in Proleague history, sixth among the top ten winningest players in ace match wins. Don't think there's any way you can make an argument that Inno is even a top 5 team league player in SC2. Stuchiu put him in the Top 3, with MMA and TaeJa (.....), though he said it was impossible to order them. This was before INnoVation won 2016 VSL Team League, NationWars IV, and now this 2017 VSTL. Inno now holds 8 teamleague trophies, the most of any player. Obviously, MMA and TaeJa have done jack shit recently. And with specific regard to Proleague, Inno's 65% winrate is second only to sOs at 66%. Not to mention in 2013 he put STX SouL on his back and dragged that team across the finish line. >9-10 in Proleague >Top 3 teamleague player Sure, if you say so. Did anyone tell him Taeja retired a year ago and doesn't need TL going to bat for him anymore? If you've not watched pre 2014 SC2 you're excused. If you did, you're twisting history. IPL TAC was by far the most impressive single man carrying of a team in a team league in sc2. That alone puts TaeJa top 3. It was extremely impressive, yes, the single most impressive teamleague achievement made by anyone, even.
Taeja went 23-3 in IPL TAC, one win more than Maru's 22-4 in SPL 2016.
That being said, I still feel like Maru's acheivement is more impressive. He crushed ALL of the players that were doing great in the 2016 starleagues, that weren't ByuN or on Jin Air. That included Stats, TY, Inno, Solar, Dear, Dark, Zest, and Classic. Going 85% against the best sc2 korea had to offer, all of which were preparing specifically against him, is unmatched imo
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EPT
