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On April 25 2007 17:36 Phyre wrote:
In response to anyone that thinks they would make SC2 on the War3 engine I don't believe they will. It is my theory that War3 was really only made to get everyone ready for WoW. I remember reading that WoW was made with an advanced version of the War3 engine. A lot of people agreed that War3 was not what many of us wanted and the fact that War3 standard play has largely been eclipsed by DotA and other Custom Maps lends to the theory that War3 was somewhat half assed (not in production values) but excellent mod capabilities were built in. So by releasing War3 they've brought the Warcraft world back to the forefront of our memories, an engine that is easy to dev for, and whatever revenue was made off of the huge War3 sales. Sounds like a great prep for WoW. This is just my theory I came up with in the last 5 minutes, don't go nuts if you find a hole in it.
So basically what I'm saying is that I would imagine SC is a large enough franchise not to jeopardize by half assing anything unless they plan to release World of Starcraft shortly afterwards...
Your world is wonderful and there are lullabies in it...
Seriously, the only sane thing you said here was that w3 has great modding tools...
Nobody expect SC2 to be made out of the w3 engine... But the w3 engine is the closest thing to perfection in terms of 3d rts... So I hope they do better, yes.
w3 made to "prep" ppl for WoW... Are you out of your mind!!!
The only hole there is in your theory is the one you pulled it from and it's called an ass.
Who in his right mind would invest millions to produce a game (the second best rts there is out there) just to advertise another project....
If w3 suck multiplayer, it's not because of an evil scheme of blizzard, it's because it suck.
Blizzard has done their best with the game... and failed.
Now yes, they used w3 engine to make early version of WoW... What has that to do with anything?
The more I think about it the more I believe I am losing my time trying to answer your post... Why am I doing this? Dunno, shouldn't have bothered
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blizzard didn't expect wow to turn out so big. eventually they upgraded it more and more and now they earned so much money on it I heard speculations they will make it free because they already earned the amount of money they expected to earn in next 6-10years or so. got this info from a guy that is in pc industry n stuff so dunno how much truth is in it :D
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
edit: cant embed brightcove here :p
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On April 25 2007 18:29 Dendra wrote:
blizzard didn't expect wow to turn out so big. eventually they upgraded it more and more and now they earned so much money on it I heard speculations they will make it free because they already earned the amount of money they expected to earn in next 6-10years or so. got this info from a guy that is in pc industry n stuff so dunno how much truth is in it :D
No they said they will keep it with a monthly fee, except they will give all the money out to help mmorpg addicted youngsters. That is because they care. Someone close to the ice cream industry told me that. Don't know how much truth is in it, but it conflict with what your source said...
Edit : Changed mood smilie...
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personally, i really think BW can develop more. You don't take a steak off the grill if it aint cooked yet. So i dont know wtf blizzard is doing SC2 NOW of all times. Hopefully in progaming BW wont die out, but in our communities BW will die out slowly considering how many people will go to SC2. This really hurts BW communitie if SC2 sucks >_<
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On April 25 2007 18:48 GoOdJo wrote:
personally, i really think BW can develop more. You don't take a steak off the grill if it aint cooked yet. So i dont know wtf blizzard is doing SC2 NOW of all times. Hopefully in progaming BW wont die out, but in our communities BW will die out slowly considering how many people will go to SC2. This really hurts BW communitie if SC2 sucks >_<
Maybe because the steak has been on the grill since 97? Im not sure how you like your steak :p . You just have to embrace this evolution rather than fight it. If SC2 sucks ass, then we aren't fucked (look at WC3, it's balls but it still has a decently sized community and massive tournys - infact is in more tournys internationally than bw) but it depends how you look at it. This will be a completely different game than SC2. An extra race? Extra/modified units? Build orders, strats, graphics are all going to be different so just think of it as a separate game and what it will add to esports.
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The only thing that I can hope, IF SC2 does in fact turn out to be less than what the original was(who knows? maybe they can make it), that it won't die off (Like the situation of Halo 1, when Halo 2 came out)
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Why do they say that WC3 isn't very good for "broadcasting." I agree, I just don't really know why.
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On April 25 2007 19:31 GuYuTe- wrote:
Why do they say that WC3 isn't very good for "broadcasting." I agree, I just don't really know why.
Too slow, not enough stuff dies
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On April 25 2007 18:24 d4d wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2007 17:36 Phyre wrote:
In response to anyone that thinks they would make SC2 on the War3 engine I don't believe they will. It is my theory that War3 was really only made to get everyone ready for WoW. I remember reading that WoW was made with an advanced version of the War3 engine. A lot of people agreed that War3 was not what many of us wanted and the fact that War3 standard play has largely been eclipsed by DotA and other Custom Maps lends to the theory that War3 was somewhat half assed (not in production values) but excellent mod capabilities were built in. So by releasing War3 they've brought the Warcraft world back to the forefront of our memories, an engine that is easy to dev for, and whatever revenue was made off of the huge War3 sales. Sounds like a great prep for WoW. This is just my theory I came up with in the last 5 minutes, don't go nuts if you find a hole in it.
So basically what I'm saying is that I would imagine SC is a large enough franchise not to jeopardize by half assing anything unless they plan to release World of Starcraft shortly afterwards... Your world is wonderful and there are lullabies in it... Seriously, the only sane thing you said here was that w3 has great modding tools... Nobody expect SC2 to be made out of the w3 engine... But the w3 engine is the closest thing to perfection in terms of 3d rts... So I hope they do better, yes. w3 made to "prep" ppl for WoW... Are you out of your mind!!! The only hole there is in your theory is the one you pulled it from and it's called an ass. Who in his right mind would invest millions to produce a game (the second best rts there is out there) just to advertise another project.... If w3 suck multiplayer, it's not because of an evil scheme of blizzard, it's because it suck. Blizzard has done their best with the game... and failed. Now yes, they used w3 engine to make early version of WoW... What has that to do with anything? The more I think about it the more I believe I am losing my time trying to answer your post... Why am I doing this? Dunno, shouldn't have bothered
The warcraft 3 engine is what, 6-7 years old? Of course they'll use a much better engine now. And computers now are much faster than when war3 came out, so I suspect SC2 will have the same 200 supply cap. I also suspect the graphics will be far neater than war3, and the 3D nature of the game wont interfere with accurate unit control.
I am also quite sure that SC2 will have the same pace that SC does. I dont think Blizzard are too stupid to realize what a phenomenal success SC is. They'll probably keep the game dynamics similar, and just add more to it.
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I personally can't watch televised wc3, I get bored because when there are more than a few units, combined with the fact that things take forever to kill each other, it just turns into a giant massive gloop of color where it's impossible to tell whether or not any actual strategy is being employed, let alone what is specifically happening at each instance. Also, as fusionsdf mentioned, it's really slow, which combined with armies avoiding each other before the battle makes the game doubly slow. There's also the matter of not knowing who is going to win. In starcraft, since your economy matters alot, the more of the map you control, the more likely you are to win, so even an first-time broodwar observer can tell most of the time who is winning just by looking at the minimap (big glob > small glob). In wc3, heroes and other powerful units imply that map control doesn't really matter as much as to who wins.
Also alot of the watchability of broodwar comes from the excitement of the spectator, which is fueled by fancy, incredibly fast/accurate moves that look like they're impossible to do (dropship micro, marine micro, etc). This can only happen in a fast paced game where things die really fast.
Furthermore, starcraft games mostly follow a clear pattern: start game, scout, expand, harrass, build up forces, move out or defend, battle until supremacy is reached, gg. All of the non-standard stuff is just icing on the cake. In order for an audience to like something, it has to have a certain amount of predictability to it (in order for something to be incredible, you need some standard to compare it to, right?), which also causes more excitement because you can see a clear favorite and underdog in almost every match.
Finally, starcraft strategies can also change because of its mystical balance among 3 completely different races, which alters the gameplay just enough to make starcraft non-repetitive, which is a big plus to spectators, who like to see dynamic things, the more dynamic the better.
So to summarize: The ideal spectator game would have: fast paced action, clear way of determining the winner, avenues for developing cute/fast/fancy moves, a standard of gameplay, a certain level of predictability, and a possibility of gameplay evolution.
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On April 25 2007 18:24 d4d wrote:
Your world is wonderful and there are lullabies in it...
Seriously, the only sane thing you said here was that w3 has great modding tools...
Nobody expect SC2 to be made out of the w3 engine... But the w3 engine is the closest thing to perfection in terms of 3d rts... So I hope they do better, yes.
w3 made to "prep" ppl for WoW... Are you out of your mind!!!
The only hole there is in your theory is the one you pulled it from and it's called an ass.
Who in his right mind would invest millions to produce a game (the second best rts there is out there) just to advertise another project....
If w3 suck multiplayer, it's not because of an evil scheme of blizzard, it's because it suck.
Blizzard has done their best with the game... and failed.
Now yes, they used w3 engine to make early version of WoW... What has that to do with anything?
The more I think about it the more I believe I am losing my time trying to answer your post... Why am I doing this? Dunno, shouldn't have bothered
When you say no one expects SC2 to be made out of the WC3 engine, I agree. I was responding to someone that was making a comment that seemed to allude to that idea. In terms of it being the closest thing to perfection in terms of 3D RTS games, what makes you say that?
Who in their right mind would make a game just to prep for WoW? First off, if the engine can be used for both games that saves a lot of time. Second, knowing full well that WoW is the far larger potential cash cow it would make sense to make sure the Warcraft franchise is fresh in everyone's minds. I'm not saying Blizz would throw away the money they invested to make WC3, I'm sure they produced it with intent to make plenty of profit just like any other game. Now you're mentioning that War3 is the second best RTS? Opinion, not fact. As far as Blizz trying their best, that's possible. I don't work for Blizz so I don't know. It is possible that if the engine was geared towards WoW in the first place then War3 was compromised to some extent. I'm fully aware that is purely speculation, but it as much backing as your opinion that War3. It's just a guess on my part.
In response to your last question, the fact that War3's engine was used to develop WoW has plenty to do with my theory. Actually, that's what drove me to think about this possibility.
Lastly, if you're going to disagree with me you can do it without sounding hostile. I appreciate any facts (not opinions) that you can throw my way to prove that my theory incorrect. I'm just throwing ideas around.
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I don't know what to say right now. SC2 would be pretty cool... but that would mean having to choose between the sequal to the game that I have hailed as the best game ever since 01,02 when I started playing it, and the sequal to my favorite game of all time. Then it's also the effect on the pro scene, the hope it sticks to its origins.
ARGH. I'm kind of hoping this is Diablo 3 so that I don't have to worry about this. Then again, SC2 would be sweet, but not.
OMG WTF This is too hard to decide.
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Looks like blizzard decided to cater for 10yr olds. Fuck sc2.
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As long as it doesn't turn out TOO bad that it'll take away the mad gameplay and skills - ALSO gotta consider if it's gay ass really fucking high requirements
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
why do i feel like SC2 will be the second coming of star wars
that is, while the original "series" of star wars were masterpieces (although return of the jedi had the fatally terrible ewoks), the prequels turned out to be true doo doo, in an attempt to cater to a broader, and younger audience
if there is a game equivalent of jar jar binks in SC2 i swear by the gods i will stick forks in my eyes
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On April 25 2007 14:59 Musli wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2007 13:52 MYM.Testie wrote:
Blizzard should bring a Testie down who understands the depths of the game from a pace / just knowing games point of view from all races to keep BW awesome while still allowing people to attempt implementing new things. Mail Blizzard and offer yourself to tests. I'm sure they need someone like you to make the game better, thanks to upcoming patches. Gogo Nick !
Not necessary IMO, Blizzard Korea will surely hire many progamers to test SC2 carefully for them.
For SC2 whiners who think you are smarter in RTS game development than the best RTS developers themselves, please STFU. Warcraft3 has been out for 7 years and knowing its limitations doesn't mean that you are a God who understands everything about making games and Blizzard is just a bunch of lucky retards who just luckily invented SC from no where. And stop making posts like "OMG I won't play SC2", really, who cares? It has been 10 years and a sequel is inevitable, whether you like it or not.
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whoa whoa whoa!! im getting goosebumps lines into the translation!
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On April 25 2007 20:13 mrdx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2007 14:59 Musli wrote:On April 25 2007 13:52 MYM.Testie wrote:
Blizzard should bring a Testie down who understands the depths of the game from a pace / just knowing games point of view from all races to keep BW awesome while still allowing people to attempt implementing new things. Mail Blizzard and offer yourself to tests. I'm sure they need someone like you to make the game better, thanks to upcoming patches. Gogo Nick ! Not necessary IMO, Blizzard Korea will surely hire many progamers to test SC2 carefully for them. For SC2 whiners who think you are smarter in RTS game development than the best RTS developers themselves, please STFU. Warcraft3 has been out for 7 years and knowing its limitations doesn't mean that you are a God who understands everything about making games and Blizzard is just a bunch of lucky retards who just luckily invented SC from no where. And stop making posts like "OMG I won't play SC2", really, who cares? It has been 10 years and a sequel is inevitable, whether you like it or not.
Thank you, listen to this wise man and stfu
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EPT
