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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
16 players 2 from chinese qualifiers and 10 from korean qualifiers Stats, INno, soO and TY have a direct spot GSL vs World delayed https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/20827181/Schedule-Update---IEM-Shanghai-and-GSL-vs.-the-World/ ( Cure is the favourite for both ) 
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AlexGPunkt
Germany258 Posts
"Cure is the favourite for both", had to laugh really hard at that :D | ||
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Nayolbi
325 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
Edit: Btw the qualifier is global, but for some reasone it's on the KR server instead of the NA server where EU players could also try. | ||
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AshC
United States328 Posts
Hype! | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1902 Posts
On May 31 2017 02:57 AshC wrote: Oh my god, another global event! Awesome, my wish comes true again! Hype! 14 Koreans and 2 Chinese players is global? | ||
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AshC
United States328 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:03 mizenhauer wrote: 14 Koreans and 2 Chinese players is global? The description is misleading. It is open qualifier like any IEM events do. Anyone can sign up. I think it may be hosted in KR server. That is all. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1902 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:05 AshC wrote: The description is misleading. It is open qualifier like any IEM events do. Anyone can sign up. I think it may be hosted in KR server. That is all. Prepare for 14 Koreans and 2 Chinese players. | ||
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AshC
United States328 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:09 mizenhauer wrote: Prepare for 14 Koreans and 2 Chinese players. Well, if non-Korean players fail to qualify, so be it. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:05 AshC wrote: The description is misleading. It is open qualifier like any IEM events do. Anyone can sign up. I think it may be hosted in KR server. That is all. Well it's basically a WCS Korea event, open in the same way as GSL and SSL are open. But still meant for Korean players (as Apollo confirmed on reddit). | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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AshC
United States328 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:10 Musicus wrote: Well it's basically a WCS Korea event, open in the same way as GSL and SSL are open. But still meant for Korean players (as Apollo confirmed on reddit). I'm not trying to be picky here but they are not the same. GSL and SSL are months-long event. You have to be physically in Korea to play. IEM has open ONLINE qualifiers for everyone to play. If you qualify, then you get the tickets to fly to Shanghai and play for like 4 days (weekend). That is it. How is that the same as GSL and SSL? It is more like Super Tournament. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:18 AshC wrote: I'm not trying to be picky here but they are not the same. GSL and SSL are months-long event. You have to be physically in Korea to play. IEM has open ONLINE qualifiers for everyone to play. If you qualify, then you get the tickets to fly to Shanghai and play for like 4 days (weekend). That is it. How is that the same as GSL and SSL? It is more like Super Tournament. Even if it's not the same as GSL/SSL it is the same as IEM Gyeonggi which was a WCS Korea event. I'm just repeating what Apollo said. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/6e89td/iem_xii_shanghai_on_july_2730_announced/di8hzhv/ The event is targeted for WCS Korea, in a very similar capacity to IEM Gyeonggi last year. Similar to the GSL/SSL, qualification is always open to all players who want to compete. I am not saying I'm not happy about another WCS Korea event, I am super happy. But let's not pretend it's a global event | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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AshC
United States328 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:20 Musicus wrote: Even if it's not the same as GSL/SSL it is the same as IEM Gyeonggi which was a WCS Korea event. I'm just repeating what Apollo said. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/6e89td/iem_xii_shanghai_on_july_2730_announced/di8hzhv/ I am not saying I'm not happy about another WCS Korea event, I am super happy. But let's not pretend it's a global event I see. Thanks for the info. Open qualifier + no visa/physically present requirement. That is global even to me. It does sound like IEM Gyeonggi as Apollo said. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16017 Posts
Edit: don't confuse this with negativity, I'm super glad we get another high-level tournament. | ||
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Elentos
55560 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:35 Charoisaur wrote: Qualifier should be on NA server. Foreigners already got the short stick with their amount of tournaments, would be better to give them some more chances. Edit: don't confuse this with negativity, I'm super glad we get another high-level tournament. A tournament with less than 50% ZvZ is fine too | ||
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AshC
United States328 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:37 Elentos wrote: If it's a WCS Korea event that means foreigners can't even get points for their region. Interesting question. I asked Apollo on Reddit. Let see what his answer is. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:18 AshC wrote: I'm not trying to be picky here but they are not the same. GSL and SSL are months-long event. You have to be physically in Korea to play. IEM has open ONLINE qualifiers for everyone to play. If you qualify, then you get the tickets to fly to Shanghai and play for like 4 days (weekend). That is it. How is that the same as GSL and SSL? It is more like Super Tournament. Trying to play with EU to KR ping makes this basically a KR only event. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16017 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:56 Lexender wrote: Trying to play with EU to KR ping makes this basically a KR only event. Maybe Scarlett or Neeb can qualify. | ||
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On May 31 2017 04:04 Nerchio wrote: Changing the WCS Challenger dates is just sad. If you announce something at the start of the year then don't change it in the middle of the season, especially in holiday season You had holidays from blizzcon to katowice rofl | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16017 Posts
On May 31 2017 04:07 DieuCure wrote: You had holidays from blizzcon to katowice rofl Isn't playing Starcraft like paid holidays?  | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 31 2017 03:56 Lexender wrote: Trying to play with EU to KR ping makes this basically a KR only event. iirc for Katowice koreans were qualifying through EU servers On May 31 2017 03:35 Charoisaur wrote: Qualifier should be on NA server. Foreigners already got the short stick with their amount of tournaments, would be better to give them some more chances. I think everyone got a short stick in terms of tournaments tbh | ||
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Elentos
55560 Posts
On May 31 2017 04:09 Fango wrote: iirc for Katowice koreans were qualifying through EU servers None of them made it, including INnoVation. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16017 Posts
On May 31 2017 04:09 Fango wrote: iirc for Katowice koreans were qualifying through EU servers no there were 3 qualifiers. For EU, KR and NA. | ||
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RevTiberius
Canada353 Posts
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On May 31 2017 04:13 Charoisaur wrote: no there were 3 qualifiers. For EU, KR and NA. Yeah, and even that was in favor of koreans: 3 slots for the European server qualifier. 3 slots for the American server qualifier. 6 slots for the Korean server qualifiers (3 each). http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_XI_-_World_Championship/Server_Qualifiers | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On May 31 2017 04:09 Fango wrote: iirc for Katowice koreans were qualifying through EU servers I think everyone got a short stick in terms of tournaments tbh Oh really? How do you figure that? Let's look at the tournaments. The number of WCS events for foreigners went down from 10 in 2016 to 4 in 2017: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2016_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Circuit/Standings http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Circuit/Standings WCS Korea went up from 7 events in 2016 to 9 events in 2017 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2016_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Korea/Standings http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Korea/Standings | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16017 Posts
On May 31 2017 04:57 BaneRiders wrote: Yeah, and even that was in favor of koreans: 3 slots for the European server qualifier. 3 slots for the American server qualifier. 6 slots for the Korean server qualifiers (3 each). http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IEM_Season_XI_-_World_Championship/Server_Qualifiers 6 spots for foreigners and 6 spots for koreans. seems fair considering the WCS system is divided in Korea and the rest. | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On May 31 2017 05:12 Charoisaur wrote: 6 spots for foreigners and 6 spots for koreans. seems fair considering the WCS system is divided in Korea and the rest. Snute could only really compete for 1 of 3 spots, where as Innovation could compete for 1 of 6 spots on two different occasions. You may think that this is fair, but I feel it is heavily tilted in favour of Innovation.  | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16017 Posts
On May 31 2017 05:27 BaneRiders wrote: Snute could only really compete for 1 of 3 spots, where as Innovation could compete for 1 of 6 spots on two different occasions. You may think that this is fair, but I feel it is heavily tilted in favour of Innovation. ? They could also play NA qualifier. Only on EU-KR and vice-versa the lag makes it unplayable. so it's 2 qualifier for Snute (NA+EU) and 3 qualifier for Inno (NA+KR*2). Considering that the KR qualifier is way harder than the EU qualifier I tthnk it's fair. Only NA players had really an advantage here but given the quality of NA players I don't think it's to bad. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On May 31 2017 05:27 BaneRiders wrote: Snute could only really compete for 1 of 3 spots, where as Innovation could compete for 1 of 6 spots on two different occasions. You may think that this is fair, but I feel it is heavily tilted in favour of Innovation. yea and foreigners can play GSL + WCS when koreans only can play GSL | ||
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BaneRiders
Sweden3630 Posts
On May 31 2017 05:43 Charoisaur wrote: ? They could also play NA qualifier. Only on EU-KR and vice-versa the lag makes it unplayable. so it's 2 qualifier for Snute (NA+EU) and 3 qualifier for Inno (NA+KR*2). Considering that the KR qualifier is way harder than the EU qualifier I tthnk it's fair. Only NA players had really an advantage here but given the quality of NA players I don't think it's to bad. Alright, remind me again, who qualified from the NA qualifier?  | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16017 Posts
On May 31 2017 06:15 BaneRiders wrote: Alright, remind me again, who qualified from the NA qualifier? you posted the link yourself?... herO, TY, TRUE | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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CynicalDeath
Italy3491 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On May 31 2017 05:52 DieuCure wrote: yea and foreigners can play GSL + WCS when koreans only can play GSL Yeah, all you have to do is put your life on hold, move halfway across the planet, and play in an offline qualifier that you may or may not advance past. Until this year it just wasn't viable for foreigners to play in GSL. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 31 2017 05:08 BaneRiders wrote: Oh really? How do you figure that? Let's look at the tournaments. The number of WCS events for foreigners went down from 10 in 2016 to 4 in 2017: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2016_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Circuit/Standings http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Circuit/Standings WCS Korea went up from 7 events in 2016 to 9 events in 2017 http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2016_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Korea/Standings http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Korea/Standings You're forgetting they also lost proleague which for many players was the majority of training time as well as income (through their teams). Don't even act like the majority of KR players didn't get messed up, most of their income is gone if they aren't winning GSL/IEM. As well as team houses etc edit: my point is 5 WCS events + ploleague = most players have an income. 9 WCS events without proleague is much worse | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 31 2017 04:13 Charoisaur wrote: no there were 3 qualifiers. For EU, KR and NA. yh I double checked. They entered the EU qual but none of them made it, they all got through the NA qualifer though | ||
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CUTtheCBC
Canada91 Posts
On May 31 2017 02:50 Musicus wrote: Damn, this is some great news! Edit: Btw the qualifier is global, but for some reasone it's on the KR server instead of the NA server where EU players could also try. because KR > EU and EU players can play on KR too no excuses m8 | ||
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killerm12
Slovakia601 Posts
On May 31 2017 08:02 CUTtheCBC wrote: because KR > EU and EU players can play on KR too no excuses m8 with 350-400ms ping... yeah great - there's a reason none of the koreans made it to that tournament through EU qualifiers | ||
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lestye
United States4186 Posts
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On May 31 2017 08:02 CUTtheCBC wrote: because KR > EU and EU players can play on KR too no excuses m8 Not if you have to play any zvz though, basically the ping is to high to compete and have a chance to qualify | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Just curious, I get that TY is seeded b/c Katowice and Inno b/c Gyeonggi. Also Stats got 2nd in both so it makes sense for him to have a seed too. But how did soO of all people get a seed? Oh nvm, saw that they just pulled the top 4 WCS rankings. And FFS people, stop bitching about the tournament being in the wrong region or whatever. At a time when Starcraft is definitely struggling, just be happy that we get another big tournament. Would you be happier if IEM didn't have a Shanghai event at all? Talk about ingratitude. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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marcesr
Germany1383 Posts
On May 31 2017 13:45 DieuCure wrote: Seriously who prefer watch a nerchio vs marinelord instead of Cure vs soO, be logic, Korean event > foreigners event Your mindset only applies to a small elite of the former SC2 audience and is a main reason for why SC2's popularity went down so quickly. It was when Koreans flooded the scene and most of the big names who brought in the casual viewers didnt make it past round of 32 anymore, that people lost interest in this game. | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
On May 31 2017 16:32 marcesr wrote: Your mindset only applies to a small elite of the former SC2 audience and is a main reason for why SC2's popularity went down so quickly. It was when Koreans flooded the scene and most of the big names who brought in the casual viewers didnt make it past round of 32 anymore, that people lost interest in this game. That's only because Stephano left! | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On May 31 2017 17:38 AbouSV wrote: More Starcraft, good Starcraft. That's only because Stephano left! There needs to be a good mix of both, the best thing would be for foreigners to start consistently beating Koreans but for whatever reason it never happens. I'm looking forward to this tournament anyway should be some great games. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On May 31 2017 12:23 pvsnp wrote: Great news! More Starcraft is always better, especially with top-tier Koreans. Just curious, I get that TY is seeded b/c Katowice and Inno b/c Gyeonggi. Also Stats got 2nd in both so it makes sense for him to have a seed too. But how did soO of all people get a seed? Oh nvm, saw that they just pulled the top 4 WCS rankings. And FFS people, stop bitching about the tournament being in the wrong region or whatever. At a time when Starcraft is definitely struggling, just be happy that we get another big tournament. Would you be happier if IEM didn't have a Shanghai event at all? Talk about ingratitude. I am grateful, but it is not about something like the tournament being in the wrong reason but the qualifiers being held on a region where you essencially exclude a part of the world from it. On May 31 2017 13:45 DieuCure wrote: Seriously who prefer watch a nerchio vs marinelord instead of Cure vs soO, be logic, Korean event > foreigners event Most people can't identify with the so called "Faceless Korean" because they lack personality that can be easilly percieved by the public. Wheras they can far easier identify with people who are from or near their homecountry. Most people can't even see the difference in the small things which make Korean players better than the rest. And some people don't really care about them. Which means they like to see people who have some personality. (Like people who want to watch TLO because he is Mr Creative). | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
I'm still hyped for this and IEM usually puts on a good show but I don't know. I wish we could go back to WCS studio stuff :[ | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On May 31 2017 20:25 Corvuuss wrote: Most people can't identify with the so called "Faceless Korean" because they lack personality that can be easilly percieved by the public. Wheras they can far easier identify with people who are from or near their homecountry. Most people can't even see the difference in the small things which make Korean players better than the rest. And some people don't really care about them. Which means they like to see people who have some personality. (Like people who want to watch TLO because he is Mr Creative). Rofl are you racist ? The lack of personality and "faceless korean" was just just biased, parting have less personality than neeb or drogo ? please. In 2010-2012 everybody was bad at the game so all the viewers wanted was some fun, you can see it with Dragon's stream, but now it's over, players are good enough to ask more than some idra gags, "fun games" from Dragon dont improve his viewership anymore, but serious games do it, when it was the reverse at the time. And i prefer a TY vs Rogue late game ( as in GSL ) than an uThermal allin. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
The most hype events are always korean vs foreigner. A dream final in terms of viewership is like nerchio vs maru for example | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 31 2017 18:32 Zaros wrote: There needs to be a good mix of both, the best thing would be for foreigners to start consistently beating Koreans but for whatever reason it never happens. I'm looking forward to this tournament anyway should be some great games. We know the reason, they aren't as good, they don't have the history, the practice, or level of competition. Separating them won't fix this on the highest level. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On May 31 2017 22:10 DieuCure wrote: Rofl are you racist ? The lack of personality and "faceless korean" was just just biased, parting have less personality than neeb or drogo ? please. In 2010-2012 everybody was bad at the game so all the viewers wanted was some fun, you can see it with Dragon's stream, but now it's over, players are good enough to ask more than some idra gags, "fun games" from Dragon dont improve his viewership anymore, but serious games do it, when it was the reverse at the time. And i prefer a TY vs Rogue late game ( as in GSL ) than an uThermal allin. Of course i am not racist but almost everyone can identify more with something familiar to them. And modt people watch more foreign events than korean which does not help with that either. And it is great that you can enjoy good games, but to be honest most people couldn't tell you who is playing withoit something telling them. On May 31 2017 22:14 Fango wrote: The whole faceless korean thing is overused imo. People want big names. names like mc, zest, sos, innovation, life, maru, stephano, neeb etc. The most hype events are always korean vs foreigner. A dream final in terms of viewership is like nerchio vs maru for example This is true as well, but you could exchange maru with any korean name and it would be like that, the thing is most viewers (which are not completely invested into the scene) like to see their favourite player play against a korean (and hopefully win). But they don't care who the korean is as long as he is percieved as a good korean. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On May 31 2017 22:20 Corvuuss wrote: This is true as well, but you could exchange maru with any korean name and it would be like that, the thing is most viewers (which are not completely invested into the scene) like to see their favourite player play against a korean (and hopefully win). But they don't care who the korean is as long as he is percieved as a good korean. Maru is one of the koreans that can get views though. He's in that circle with sos etc that people recognise. Plus him and nerchibro have history. Maru vs life is the most watched final of all time right? | ||
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happykrogan
Germany408 Posts
There are still some in the BTTV house? At least they won't have problems with the server. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On May 31 2017 23:14 happykrogan wrote: IEM shanghai 2016 was the first starcraft tournament i ever watched so I'm really hyped for this one. I hope a foreigner can make it through the qualifier but with only 10 advancing i don't think it will happen There are still some in the BTTV house? At least they won't have problems with the server. Yeah, I don't know who is there but I think there are people there who could try to qualify. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16017 Posts
On May 31 2017 22:14 Fango wrote: The whole faceless korean thing is overused imo. People want big names. names like mc, zest, sos, innovation, life, maru, stephano, neeb etc. The most hype events are always korean vs foreigner. A dream final in terms of viewership is like nerchio vs maru for example Unfortunately no foreigner is good enough to reach a finals vs koreans. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On May 31 2017 23:40 Charoisaur wrote: Unfortunately no foreigner is good enough to reach a finals vs koreans. No that never happened (that was sarcasm) | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On May 31 2017 22:14 Fango wrote: The whole faceless korean thing is overused imo. People want big names. names like mc, zest, sos, innovation, life, maru, stephano, neeb etc. The most hype events are always korean vs foreigner. A dream final in terms of viewership is like nerchio vs maru for example Hmm i think there is definitely merit in "faceless korean". Not that koreans don't have personality, but the language barrier simply was a big hurdle for them to show it + the general attitude of them being humble, etc. Yes there were exceptions as well, ofc. But in general it's still true that it was and is way easier to get a emotional attachment to content/personalities/etc you actually can understand. Here on TL we are pretty hardcore, we watch korean tournaments a lot. We already have made the step to care aboout our favorite korean players. But someone only vaguely interested in starcraft probably wouldn't do that. So yeah i think koreans being extremely good, so good that they won every weekend tournament was actually bad for the scene. Tournaments should have done more to show the personalities behind the players (like the signature series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCEtqjgP-Js) Players could have done more to at least try to speak some english here and there. Blizzard could have done more. Well you get the point. Right now we are probably at a point where the majority of people knows the big korean players though, simply because the hardcore audience is still here and everybody else not so much. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
I spent weekends chilling and watching them. Really happy to see another one. | ||
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warlocke
97 Posts
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argonautdice
Canada2719 Posts
On May 31 2017 23:40 Charoisaur wrote: Unfortunately no foreigner is good enough to reach a finals vs koreans. Fortunately the first global open qualifier is on the same date as GSL S3 qualifier, and it has 8 spots to go into the closed qualifier, from which 10 will qualifier for the main tournament. | ||
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