On May 22 2017 06:21 DieuCure wrote: Ssl premier is harder than gsl because it's all about top players
GSL ro32 and ro16 = a lot of weak players
Ssl challenge is better than ro16 gsl
Yeah, the only argument I see for GSL being more prestigious than this SSL is in terms of prize money and legacy (could be a greater incentive to win). In terms of format and players though, I would consider this SSL one of the hardest tier 1 tournaments we've ever had and it will be even harder in successive seasons.
Even looking in hindsight premiere is still stacked. 7/10 of the players before the season were in or just outside of most people's top 10 power ranking and I'd imagine the result would be about the same now.
I mean look at Ryung. Back to back semis in GSL despite the gaping hole in his TvZ and mediocre TvP. Throw him in SSL premiere and I doubt he'd make it far. He's lucky Losira was the only Zerg in challenger as well.
On May 22 2017 04:20 mizenhauer wrote: Since everyone keeps talking about SSL, I urge everyone to please be reasonable and remember that this season's SSL is nowhere near the prestige of GSL. Winning it would be more analogous to winning a KeSPA Cup of MLG of 2012 era. I just can't see a case being made to classify it as anything other than a tier 2 event.
the mental gymnasistics have begun. sure the prize money isnt as high as in the previous seasons, but all the best players in the world played in it just like they did in GSL. winning an SSL is still on par with being as difficult as winning a GSL.
do you have any other reason to already degrade the prestige of winning SSL before its even finished, other than there being a player you dont like in the final right now?
One of the strenghts of the new SSL format is that players cannot avoid playing vs their weakest race/rival and ensure everybody has the same conteders during all the season, not lucky brackets or groups involved. The weakest thing in terms of prestige may be the playoff seeds as mentioned, but I love the SPL format.
GSL is basically 2 rounds of weeding out chokers and then hoping your bracket is easy. It might seem more prestige for the same reasons it's way more volatile than a RR format. Cases in point: INnoVation in SSL finals while in last GSL he was unfortunately matched against Stats in ro8 and eliminated; sOs' fluke run through GSL while in SSL he steadily maintained bottom 2 throughout the season.
Unfounded opinions are wonderful, but please supply actual information as to why SSL is harder like I did when comparing the routes stats would take to win both tournaments (I admitted that this is not the best means to do so, but something is better than nothing. A lot of people have a bad habit of spouting opinion as fact, like when I was told there were more openings used in LotV than HotS despite the fact that I had recorded the builds used in over 300 games while they were just basing their opinion of shoddy memory from watching games as fans). Going 5-4 when three of your matches are against sOs, Patience and Zest (which should be byes for anyone seriously considered to win the tournament) is not really impressive to me at all. After that the playoffs are just as difficult as GSL elimination rounds. SSL is the same players as GSL, but the first stage is much more forgiving, even when compared to the round of 16.
On May 22 2017 18:46 mizenhauer wrote: sOs, Patience and Zest (which should be byes for anyone seriously considered to win the tournament)
Well in that case we can just skip the playoffs and give the title straight to Solar since he's the only one in the top 4 who took all three byes.
I'd say Patience is the best example of the round robin not being as forgiving as you try to make it seem. After 6 weeks he was top 3 in Premier with wins over both ByuL and INnoVation. Those would have been enough to get him through a Ro16 group. After 9 weeks he finished in 8th. The round robin rewards consistency over anything else. Not to mention the GSL Ro16 has the whole group selection deal where the players all try to make the groups easy for themselves.
Some people think winning 5+ matches against 9 of the best players in the world over the course of 9 weeks is a bigger challenge (or at least equal challenge) than winning 2 matches in one day and being done with it. It's an understandable point of view.
On May 22 2017 18:46 mizenhauer wrote: Unfounded opinions are wonderful, but please supply actual information as to why SSL is harder like I did when comparing the routes stats would take to win both tournaments (I admitted that this is not the best means to do so, but something is better than nothing. A lot of people have a bad habit of spouting opinion as fact, like when I was told there were more openings used in LotV than HotS despite the fact that I had recorded the builds used in over 300 games while they were just basing their opinion of shoddy memory from watching games as fans). Going 5-4 when three of your matches are against sOs, Patience and Zest (which should be byes for anyone seriously considered to win the tournament) is not really impressive to me at all. After that the playoffs are just as difficult as GSL elimination rounds. SSL is the same players as GSL, but the first stage is much more forgiving, even when compared to the round of 16.
i never said its harder, i said its equally as hard. its literally the exact same player pool GSL has, but you're preparing specifically only for 1 opponent for every week. you might be able to drop more maps to win the whole thing, but it's a silly comparison. first of all it doesnt look like thats gonna happen in this season and secondly the best player will still come out on top.
again, a player you personally dislike is in the finals. and youre trying ro discredit the whole tournament because of it.
On May 22 2017 18:46 mizenhauer wrote: Unfounded opinions are wonderful, but please supply actual information as to why SSL is harder like I did when comparing the routes stats would take to win both tournaments (I admitted that this is not the best means to do so, but something is better than nothing. A lot of people have a bad habit of spouting opinion as fact, like when I was told there were more openings used in LotV than HotS despite the fact that I had recorded the builds used in over 300 games while they were just basing their opinion of shoddy memory from watching games as fans). Going 5-4 when three of your matches are against sOs, Patience and Zest (which should be byes for anyone seriously considered to win the tournament) is not really impressive to me at all. After that the playoffs are just as difficult as GSL elimination rounds. SSL is the same players as GSL, but the first stage is much more forgiving, even when compared to the round of 16.
i never said its harder, i said its equally as hard. its literally the exact same player pool GSL has, but you're preparing specifically only for 1 opponent for every week. you might be able to drop more maps to win the whole thing, but it's a silly comparison. first of all it doesnt look like thats gonna happen in this season and secondly the best player will still come out on top.
again, a player you personally dislike is in the finals. and youre trying ro discredit the whole tournament because of it.
Inno is far from my favorite player, but when did I say I dislike him? If he wins Premier then my position in this instance doesn't look defensible, but I don't want him to lose just because it makes me look more "correct". I still maintain that next season of SSL will be much harder than this season. If Stats wins my case looks stronger, but in my eyes this season of SSL just wasn't on the level of this season's GSL, just as this season's GSL isn't on the level of any of the 2015 SSL's. I get that you have a differing opinion and I think all of us will be delighted at the strength of SSL Premier next season, but coming up with this idea that I have a personal vendetta against Inno and therefore am determined to undermine the respectability of an entire tournament is a little flimsy.
On May 22 2017 18:46 mizenhauer wrote: Unfounded opinions are wonderful, but please supply actual information as to why SSL is harder like I did when comparing the routes stats would take to win both tournaments (I admitted that this is not the best means to do so, but something is better than nothing. A lot of people have a bad habit of spouting opinion as fact, like when I was told there were more openings used in LotV than HotS despite the fact that I had recorded the builds used in over 300 games while they were just basing their opinion of shoddy memory from watching games as fans). Going 5-4 when three of your matches are against sOs, Patience and Zest (which should be byes for anyone seriously considered to win the tournament) is not really impressive to me at all. After that the playoffs are just as difficult as GSL elimination rounds. SSL is the same players as GSL, but the first stage is much more forgiving, even when compared to the round of 16.
Statistics and facts are wonderful but sometimes Brain >>> Statistics. In SSL premiere you play only the best players every week. You play more matches than in the GSL against harder oponents. There is no point you could provide to make GSL look harder than current SSL, because its just not. Yes GSL has more prestige, money, fame, points etc., I even like it much more i just like the GSL atmosphere and format, but its definitely a much easier tournament
I don't get why you discredit SSL for having "weak" players in Zest, sOs and Patience (I don't even get why you name Patience, he beat the 2 top ranked players after all). In the last GSL the two finalists had to beat sOs and Ryung in the semifinals and had mostly weakish players in the ro32/ro16 (excluding soO's group of death). In terms of difficulty I'd certainly rate SSL over GSL because it isn't affected as much by bracket lacket or daily form of the players. Over 9 weeks straight you have to put up good performances against absolute top tier players and then get through the playoffs whereas in GSL you most of the time face only 3-4 top tier players on the road to the finals.
the only thing in favor of the GSL is the higher prestige/prize money.
Why can't we all just be happy that there are 2 korean tier 1 tournaments going on right now instead of trying to compare them (and putting 1 of them down in the proces) ?
These comments sometimes....
I for one am rooting for Inno to fulfill his potential and finally grab another starleague titel,be it GSL or SSL, preferably both
On May 23 2017 15:58 Cptn wet pants wrote: Why can't we all just be happy that there are 2 korean tier 1 tournaments going on right now instead of trying to compare them (and putting 1 of them down in the proces) ?
These comments sometimes....
I for one am rooting for Inno to fulfill his potential and finally grab another starleague titel,be it GSL or SSL, preferably both
If he manages to accomplish that, he will be the unquestioned GOAT.
EPT
