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yeah w/e Jimmy,
on topic: I really hope they do something about the mass air armies. They really suck. I dont think giving thor better base armor deals with that and I hope that buffing tempest's massive damage doesnt just promote another sort of air deathball...
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On May 06 2017 02:40 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
yeah w/e Jimmy,
on topic:
after a year it was clear Josh Mosqueira was better than Jay Wilson. Not after a month. sample size is too small.
On May 06 2017 02:40 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
I hope that buffing tempest's massive damage doesnt just promote another sort of air deathball...
"Reduce Tempest +massive damage from 25 to 22"
how does that buff the Tempest massive damage?
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because they currently have +14 massive dmg. They just toned down the proposed buff a bit.
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but in the PTR it is +25?
or did the new and improved balance team make an error in their feedback post?
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On May 06 2017 02:40 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
yeah w/e Jimmy,
on topic: I really hope they do something about the mass air armies. They really suck. I dont think giving thor better base armor deals with that and I hope that buffing tempest's massive damage doesnt just promote another sort of air deathball...
I mean, he's right, we've been without Dayvie for a couple of weeks...
Also, I definitely preferred the old method of a few thought out changes, rather than updates of whatever seems to be flittering into the balance team's head.
As a side note: I can't imagine buffing the damage to a unit that has incredibly long range as doing anything BUT promoting its inclusion in a death ball.
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Germany767 Posts
On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units.
Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch.
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I see what's happening here. Avilo is the new TL member and TLO is trying to throw us of. TLO <3 Avilo
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Every sport needs a villain.
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On May 06 2017 03:57 FarmI3oy wrote:
Every sport needs a villain.
indeed. However the villain needs to be strong enough to be a threat to the good guys.
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On May 06 2017 04:00 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:indeed. However the villain needs to be strong enough to be a threat to the good guys.
Not necessarily. Sure some villains want to beat the good guys, but there is also the sort of villain that does not care about winning or losing. As long as someone is losing besides themselves they are happy.
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On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:
Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch.
Yeah, that was pretty disgusting, but that's what you get with Avilo.
On topic, not sure what to think of buffing the Tempest (from how it is now). Air sucks.
Also not sure what to think of proposing Thor buffs against Air one week, then against Zerglings the next. Maybe they could make Zerglings fly, then the air buff works both ways!
Having said that, the Thor should not die so damn fast for its cost.
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On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch.
You're my Hero, well said sir o7. Inb4 another Avilo excuse after excuse after excuse
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On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch.
Hahaha I didn't even know that, wow, just wow.
And looking at his Swarm Host "changes", he is really a joke. Thank god Blizzard doesn't listen to someone like him.
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On May 06 2017 04:53 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Hahaha I didn't even know that, wow, just wow. And looking at his Swarm Host "changes", he is really a joke. Thank god Blizzard doesn't listen to someone like him.
Off topic Avilo drivel :
+ Show Spoiler +here is a precise recounting of the events. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/521417-avilo-scammed-viewers-for-donationsAvilo isn't a complete and total fraud. his messaging is very sloppy and combined with his "in game character"... this is what happens. he comes off slimey and exploiting a gray area to maximize stream revenue. its pretty hard to tell whether or not he is a fraud ; i can understand why many people would not want to put in the effort and time to figure it out.
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On May 06 2017 03:57 FarmI3oy wrote:
Every sport needs a villain.
I thought that was David Kim.... 
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I'm just so tired of this mass air gameplay (and lotv in general). Doesn't matter if it's mass liberators, tempest, carrier, broodlords, ravens, BC,... etc.
LotV is currently just not fun to play for me and i hope they will do something about it. I really hope they will do another one of those major patches.
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One of the big voids in the terran arsenal right now is a way to deal with corruptors in TvZ before they shrek your medivacs and libs. The only real way to deal with them is vikings which incidentally creates a huge bottleneck on starport production time during the transition from midgame bio to lategame anti hive armies. The AA vs armored Thor could potentially have filled that role.
More armor doesn´t do anything for that specific scenario since it´s a dps race against the corruptors and not about how the thor matches up against ground units.I feel like the balance team completely missed the point on this one.
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Lol @Jimmy, whatever makes you and your almost 9K posts feel more elite my dude, I merely meant that the balance team seems more intent on rolling out sensible changes then David did, all I can do is call it as I see it, in a year if they show themselves to be inept then I will change my tune appropriately.
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On May 06 2017 05:17 BigRedDog wrote:I thought that was David Kim....
Funny how David Kim leaves and conversations about Avilo suddenly starts dominating the forums.
On topic, the Adept is still in an extremely dissatisfying position. Psionic Transfer is still the problem. It also fills too many roles by removing the need of Stalkers and Zealots in every situation.
Maybe serious consideration should be given to just removing the Adept and giving the Stalker and Zealot buffs.
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EPT
