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I barely skimmed the balance changes but this is one of my favorite TL threads yet.
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On May 06 2017 07:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 06:19 jpg06051992 wrote:
Lol @Jimmy, whatever makes you and your almost 9K posts feel more elite my dude, I merely meant that the balance team seems more intent on rolling out sensible changes then David did, all I can do is call it as I see it, in a year if they show themselves to be inept then I will change my tune appropriately. in your little scenario trashing DK there is no way DK can end up being seen in a positive light. this is precisely why Blizz is not naming a new balance team lead. undue criticism with insufficient information. i'll provide a scenario where DK ends up looking pretty good: if the game gets substantially worse we can conclude DK was put in an impossible situation forced to draw compromises across many factors we didn't know existed. Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 07:08 Foxxan wrote:On May 06 2017 07:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 06 2017 06:41 Foxxan wrote:On May 06 2017 05:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On May 06 2017 04:53 Ramiz1989 wrote:On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Hahaha I didn't even know that, wow, just wow. And looking at his Swarm Host "changes", he is really a joke. Thank god Blizzard doesn't listen to someone like him. Off topic Avilo drivel : + Show Spoiler +here is a precise recounting of the events. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/521417-avilo-scammed-viewers-for-donationsAvilo isn't a complete and total fraud. his messaging is very sloppy and combined with his "in game character"... this is what happens. he comes off slimey and exploiting a gray area to maximize stream revenue. its pretty hard to tell whether or not he is a fraud ; i can understand why many people would not want to put in the effort and time to figure it out. Why didnt that thread get removed? well i think the thread contain an accurate portrayal of the events. so its good for informational purposes. If its for informational purposes, then what is the reason for naming someone? Why not write all that without includng someones name. Also why come with such a strong accusation and then no further proof of anything really. As a reader of that thread i dont even know 30%. At the same time i dont even know if there is ANY merit whatsover to the accusation. I dont fucking get it when you say for information purpose. This is someones name that go to fucking hell but its for informational purpose so its worth it? This feels like media to me. more off topic Avilo drivel + Show Spoiler +
when it comes to PR , perception is reality. Avilo needs to tighten up his messaging around donations. He comes off looking like a sloppy, slimey carnival-barker. we're talking about people's money here.
Avilo has been doing the "shock jock" thing for years on Twitch.tv. Sooner or later it'll bite him in the ass... and when that happens i'm pretty sure Avilo will be screaming and whining about how the world just doesn't understand his advanced sense of humour.
my message to Avilo: you ain't Andy Kaufman or Tony Clifton... those guys know how to pull it off.. you don't.
Though I hardly consider what I said "trashing" I really wasn't trying to put David in a positive light. I am not criticizing David Kim based on, "undue criticism with insufficient information", the guy was in charge for over half a decade, theres plenty of information to form an opinion whether you loved DK or hated him so that statement was just unnecessary and not relevant to the other 95% of my post which is praising the new balance team.
On May 06 2017 02:11 jpg06051992 wrote:
Good change on the armor, and I'm loving that the team seems interested in buffing ground mode anti-air options to hopefully start discouraging mass air vs air, and that all begins by giving the races reliable and strong methods of dealing with it.
Gonna just tldr thi
1) Armor change is good
2) Avilo's proposed Viking change it nice but his SH changes are hilarious. Personally I think the Swarm Host should just be flat out removed and the Infestor buffed. Fungal is great but NP and Infested Terrans are a joke.
3) More nerfs to air units, good, SC2 is pretty much about who can amass the biggest aerial deathball at times and it's not fun to watch or play
4) the balance changes seem to make more sense with David Kim gone as was foretold
...And I'm not judging the current balance team, If I was bashing on this current balance team then yes I would be judging with as you said undue criticism with no information, did I not explicitly I said their changes seemed good?
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On May 06 2017 08:55 Liquid`TLO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 08:37 Diquli wrote:On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Avilo talks about balancing, you talk about donation, what is the relationship? As if without this story you would have paid attention to his words... But no, it is Avilo, you are TLO so you won't listen cause you play better than him, that's all. It's stupid but a lot of pro player think like that. He can ask 300 arguments does not matter, because many pro players patronized idea of players weaker than them ... I do not like Avilo, but the game goes wrong, he has the deserves to seek solutions, even if they may be bad, it's better than watching the game die. His suggestions aren't solutions, they're just buffing his niche playstyle that he doesn't even execute well. If he would listen to advice for just a single hour and take it seriously he could probably even be a halfway decent player, but he doesn't care about improving he just loves to whine and victimise himself.
it's disappointing to see a professional player under the liquid banner to drop to this kind of behaviour. as an ambassador of your team you should know better.
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On May 06 2017 11:53 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Seems someone is salty they're irrelevant besides back in WOL Beta. xD.
Better than never being relevant at all no ?
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I agree with one thing. We need pros to add comments about balance and the design wise of SC2. They act like they're happy with whatever they get, but long-wise that's not the way. I want them to speak about pathing once again, about mech, adepts, macro, etc.
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Give the thor a speed upgrade, it is too slow right now. Also, the windup for its attack is too long.
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On May 06 2017 18:58 GrandSmurf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 08:55 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 06 2017 08:37 Diquli wrote:On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Avilo talks about balancing, you talk about donation, what is the relationship? As if without this story you would have paid attention to his words... But no, it is Avilo, you are TLO so you won't listen cause you play better than him, that's all. It's stupid but a lot of pro player think like that. He can ask 300 arguments does not matter, because many pro players patronized idea of players weaker than them ... I do not like Avilo, but the game goes wrong, he has the deserves to seek solutions, even if they may be bad, it's better than watching the game die. His suggestions aren't solutions, they're just buffing his niche playstyle that he doesn't even execute well. If he would listen to advice for just a single hour and take it seriously he could probably even be a halfway decent player, but he doesn't care about improving he just loves to whine and victimise himself. it's disappointing to see a professional player under the liquid banner to drop to this kind of behaviour. as an ambassador of your team you should know better.
Maybe there is nothing in his TL contract that prevents him from saying the truth.
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I have played every major RTS since Dune II.
I have never seen anything as broken as the current Swarm Hosts vs mech. Well maybe pre-patch Teutonic Towncenters in Age of Empires II, but apart from that, nothing.
There is basically no working ingame solution to Swarm Hosts if you play mech. None. If pro players were forced to use mech instead of bio the Terran race would basically be extinct.
How can anyone who cares about this game think the current situation is ok? That one unit counters an entire playstyle and that there is no working counter play?
If Ravens have to be nerfed into the ground in order to compensate for a Swarm Host nerf so be it.
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On May 06 2017 21:37 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 18:58 GrandSmurf wrote:On May 06 2017 08:55 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 06 2017 08:37 Diquli wrote:On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Avilo talks about balancing, you talk about donation, what is the relationship? As if without this story you would have paid attention to his words... But no, it is Avilo, you are TLO so you won't listen cause you play better than him, that's all. It's stupid but a lot of pro player think like that. He can ask 300 arguments does not matter, because many pro players patronized idea of players weaker than them ... I do not like Avilo, but the game goes wrong, he has the deserves to seek solutions, even if they may be bad, it's better than watching the game die. His suggestions aren't solutions, they're just buffing his niche playstyle that he doesn't even execute well. If he would listen to advice for just a single hour and take it seriously he could probably even be a halfway decent player, but he doesn't care about improving he just loves to whine and victimise himself. it's disappointing to see a professional player under the liquid banner to drop to this kind of behaviour. as an ambassador of your team you should know better. Maybe there is nothing in his TL contract that prevents him from saying the truth. TLO's posts in this thread have been totally off-topic and have helped derail the thread completely. Frankly if he wasn't a TL team member I think he would have been warned for his first post and he still should be.
Anyway, back to the topic, I don't understand why Tempests are getting a buff against massive units. Just nerf carriers and tempests will see a bit more use. Thor armour doesn't need to be increased but I wouldn't be opposed to a substantial buff to the single target air attack alongside a nerf to their anti-ground. Adept shading still needs a big nerf as do swarm hosts. To compensate Protoss for the adept nerf, you could perhaps buff stalkers but make blink a longer and more expensive upgrade to deter blink all-ins.
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On May 06 2017 22:17 MockHamill wrote:
I have played every major RTS since Dune II.
I have never seen anything as broken as the current Swarm Hosts vs mech. Well maybe pre-patch Teutonic Towncenters in Age of Empires II, but apart from that, nothing.
There is basically no working ingame solution to Swarm Hosts if you play mech. None. If pro players were forced to use mech instead of bio the Terran race would basically be extinct.
How can anyone who cares about this game think the current situation is ok? That one unit counters an entire playstyle and that there is no working counter play?
If Ravens have to be nerfed into the ground in order to compensate for a Swarm Host nerf so be it.
At this point I think everyone is too scared of making changes because they like the metagame on the top levels of play. If that wasn't the case all the pro's would be more vocal about specific things. Changing the swarmhost (and the raven) will enable mech which can have immense effects on the current metagame. Why don't the pro's actually complain about tempest revelation carrier storm vs zerg lategame? Has any zerg ever won at that stage?
Honestly at this point we need the balance and dev team to give it to us straight. Do they want to tweak the current game just a little and cater to the existing fanbase? Or do they want to make huge changes in pursuit of the best game possible.
As we've clearly seen the balance team has no real ambition so it's probably the former.
Blizzard doesn't dream of making this game better. Or they would've admitted to us the community that units like the thor, the adept and the swarmhost are trash. And they would've killed mass air vs air battles. Instead here they are buffing the tempest's damage.
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On May 06 2017 22:20 Justinian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 21:37 Karpfen wrote:On May 06 2017 18:58 GrandSmurf wrote:On May 06 2017 08:55 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 06 2017 08:37 Diquli wrote:On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Avilo talks about balancing, you talk about donation, what is the relationship? As if without this story you would have paid attention to his words... But no, it is Avilo, you are TLO so you won't listen cause you play better than him, that's all. It's stupid but a lot of pro player think like that. He can ask 300 arguments does not matter, because many pro players patronized idea of players weaker than them ... I do not like Avilo, but the game goes wrong, he has the deserves to seek solutions, even if they may be bad, it's better than watching the game die. His suggestions aren't solutions, they're just buffing his niche playstyle that he doesn't even execute well. If he would listen to advice for just a single hour and take it seriously he could probably even be a halfway decent player, but he doesn't care about improving he just loves to whine and victimise himself. it's disappointing to see a professional player under the liquid banner to drop to this kind of behaviour. as an ambassador of your team you should know better. Maybe there is nothing in his TL contract that prevents him from saying the truth. TLO's posts in this thread have been totally off-topic and have helped derail the thread completely. Frankly if he wasn't a TL team member I think he would have been warned for his first post and he still should be. Anyway, back to the topic, I don't understand why Tempests are getting a buff against massive units. Just nerf carriers and tempests will see a bit more use. Thor armour doesn't need to be increased but I wouldn't be opposed to a substantial buff to the single target air attack alongside a nerf to their anti-ground. Adept shading still needs a big nerf as do swarm hosts. To compensate Protoss for the adept nerf, you could perhaps buff stalkers but make blink a longer and more expensive upgrade to deter blink all-ins.
This entire thread has basically been off topic balance whines. Very few people are discussing the actual changes, including the person you're trying to defend: avilo comes in on the first page and drops a wildly off topic report on his 'ideal balance change mod' - for some tournament that he keeps promising will happen SOON (TM).
Everyone else is jumping up and down about, "how they can't believe x isn't nerfed, or y is being nerfed when x should be nerfed instead."
Case in point:
On May 06 2017 22:17 MockHamill wrote:
I have played every major RTS since Dune II.
I have never seen anything as broken as the current Swarm Hosts vs mech. Well maybe pre-patch Teutonic Towncenters in Age of Empires II, but apart from that, nothing.
There is basically no working ingame solution to Swarm Hosts if you play mech. None. If pro players were forced to use mech instead of bio the Terran race would basically be extinct.
How can anyone who cares about this game think the current situation is ok? That one unit counters an entire playstyle and that there is no working counter play?
If Ravens have to be nerfed into the ground in order to compensate for a Swarm Host nerf so be it.
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Gee, I wonder why people are off topic balance whining /sarcasm.
It's probably because the balance changes proposed by Blizzard aren't things that were even remotely close to what the community wanted the balance team to do.
Have you ever heard anyone say: I want my thors to die slower against lings. Because that's the only thing this armor buff does. They will still get DESTROYED by anything other than that on the ground.
And the tempest buff against massive. Okay so we'll get less carriers in PvP. but more tempest. This is a good change.. why?
These changes are so irrelevant that it's only natural that the thread derails into personal quips.
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Perhaps a late game upgrade to strengthen Cyclone or Thor AA even more would be helpful. I still say some kind of buff to harass potential of Mech would be preferable to a stronger backbone to the army.
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On May 07 2017 01:24 Ransomstarcraft wrote:
Perhaps a late game upgrade to strengthen Cyclone or Thor AA even more would be helpful. I still say some kind of buff to harass potential of Mech would be preferable to a stronger backbone to the army.
Like helion runbys?
Like Widow mine drops?
Like Raven AutoTurrets?
Like Banshees?
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On May 06 2017 16:05 jpg06051992 wrote:
small sample size.
you are so locked into a negative view of DK that if the game gets substantially worse you're unwilling to acknowledge that any problems SC2 is having go beyond DK's level of influence.
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Germany767 Posts
On May 06 2017 12:02 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 08:55 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 06 2017 08:37 Diquli wrote:On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Avilo talks about balancing, you talk about donation, what is the relationship? As if without this story you would have paid attention to his words... But no, it is Avilo, you are TLO so you won't listen cause you play better than him, that's all. It's stupid but a lot of pro player think like that. He can ask 300 arguments does not matter, because many pro players patronized idea of players weaker than them ... I do not like Avilo, but the game goes wrong, he has the deserves to seek solutions, even if they may be bad, it's better than watching the game die. His suggestions aren't solutions, they're just buffing his niche playstyle that he doesn't even execute well. If he would listen to advice for just a single hour and take it seriously he could probably even be a halfway decent player, but he doesn't care about improving he just loves to whine and victimise himself. My ideas are solutions to mech anti-air issues with a simple accessibility change to vikings. Many masters/gm players that have already tried the map and tested it gave the feedback that they like how now if they scout an air transition they have an immediate factory AA option, rather than automatically losing the game for opting for non-bio play. The guy that posted is right - you just decided to post here not even talking about gameplay and slander me for no reason. No one gives a fuck if you don't like me or if i like you. We want SC2 to get more love from the developers and get meaningful patches. It has nothing to do with "avilo's playstyle" or me at all. It has to do with giving mech a viable factory anti-air option and addressing swarmhosts. Perhaps the changes i wrote in this thread are a bit out of context considering there's a myriad of other changes that accompany those such as ravens being 4 supply, and many more, so you are just knee jerk reacting to the swarmhost ideas i put there. There is a reason why every mech Terran has quit the game or stopped playing. Strelok, goody, htomario, the list goes on. A unit like the swarmhost in it's current state on the live version of the game NEEDS to be addressed by the developers. It's specifically overpowered and braindead against mech and makes mech near unplayable atm. The game should have strategic diversity in it - not force Terran to play bio 16 marine drop every game. Which is really what my post was about, but if you wanna keep personally attacking me instead of the ideas go ahead.
Your problem is that you have a completely skewed view on SC2 that only exists in your own bubble.
You're playing mech but when I tried watching your stream once your build order made no sense and just put you incredibly far behind by default. So I suggest learning some real Mech build orders from players like Major, TY or Gumiho.
Also playing only Mech makes it insanely hard for you to win games because everybody knows you only play mech so people can just blind counter. The same goes for any player that would only play a single style in any other matchup. That's just not the way you're supposed to play. So your Mech would become twice as strong if you would be able to play Bio in just 33% of your games so people can't just take freewins by ignoring the Bio threat.
If Terran know a Zerg only plays LBM you can abuse that as Terran and increase your winrate by 20% by just completely ignoring fast hive or Roach threat and only countering LBM from the start of the game.
If Zerg knows a Protoss always goes for adept pressure into fast Carrier he always just make enough units to defend the adepts and then drone like crazy and make units that counter Carrier and even in equal MMR would almost always win.
The singularity of your playstyle is causing you to have an incredibly biased view on balance and the game. Because you've been unwilling to learn how to play SC2 for the last 6 years.
I really don't know if you're just acting, or if you started out acting and then actually became that person but you're the most delusional RTS player I've ever seen in my Life. Your view on the game and the reality of SC2 is so far apart that it's almost unfathomable.
Also if you want to talk about relevance please just take a look at your Aligulac rating and then take a good look at yourself: http://aligulac.com/players/987-avilo/
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On May 07 2017 02:54 Liquid`TLO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2017 12:02 avilo wrote:On May 06 2017 08:55 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 06 2017 08:37 Diquli wrote:On May 06 2017 03:09 Liquid`TLO wrote:On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. Hard to take someone seriously who scams his viewers off money for trips to Austin and Katowice, takes donations for that and then doesn't show up. You don't have the best interest of anyone in mind but yourself. You're a disgrace that honestly should be banned from TL and Twitch. Avilo talks about balancing, you talk about donation, what is the relationship? As if without this story you would have paid attention to his words... But no, it is Avilo, you are TLO so you won't listen cause you play better than him, that's all. It's stupid but a lot of pro player think like that. He can ask 300 arguments does not matter, because many pro players patronized idea of players weaker than them ... I do not like Avilo, but the game goes wrong, he has the deserves to seek solutions, even if they may be bad, it's better than watching the game die. His suggestions aren't solutions, they're just buffing his niche playstyle that he doesn't even execute well. If he would listen to advice for just a single hour and take it seriously he could probably even be a halfway decent player, but he doesn't care about improving he just loves to whine and victimise himself. My ideas are solutions to mech anti-air issues with a simple accessibility change to vikings. Many masters/gm players that have already tried the map and tested it gave the feedback that they like how now if they scout an air transition they have an immediate factory AA option, rather than automatically losing the game for opting for non-bio play. The guy that posted is right - you just decided to post here not even talking about gameplay and slander me for no reason. No one gives a fuck if you don't like me or if i like you. We want SC2 to get more love from the developers and get meaningful patches. It has nothing to do with "avilo's playstyle" or me at all. It has to do with giving mech a viable factory anti-air option and addressing swarmhosts. Perhaps the changes i wrote in this thread are a bit out of context considering there's a myriad of other changes that accompany those such as ravens being 4 supply, and many more, so you are just knee jerk reacting to the swarmhost ideas i put there. There is a reason why every mech Terran has quit the game or stopped playing. Strelok, goody, htomario, the list goes on. A unit like the swarmhost in it's current state on the live version of the game NEEDS to be addressed by the developers. It's specifically overpowered and braindead against mech and makes mech near unplayable atm. The game should have strategic diversity in it - not force Terran to play bio 16 marine drop every game. Which is really what my post was about, but if you wanna keep personally attacking me instead of the ideas go ahead. Your problem is that you have a completely skewed view on SC2 that only exists in your own bubble. You're playing mech but when I tried watching your stream once your build order made no sense and just put you incredibly far behind by default. So I suggest learning some real Mech build orders from players like Major, TY or Gumiho. Also playing only Mech makes it insanely hard for you to win games because everybody knows you only play mech so people can just blind counter. The same goes for any player that would only play a single style in any other matchup. That's just not the way you're supposed to play. So your Mech would become twice as strong if you would be able to play Bio in just 33% of your games so people can't just take freewins by ignoring the Bio threat. If Terran know a Zerg only plays LBM you can abuse that as Terran and increase your winrate by 20% by just completely ignoring fast hive or Roach threat and only countering LBM from the start of the game. If Zerg knows a Protoss always goes for adept pressure into fast Carrier he always just make enough units to defend the adepts and then drone like crazy and make units that counter Carrier and even in equal MMR would almost always win. The singularity of your playstyle is causing you to have an incredibly biased view on balance and the game. Because you've been unwilling to learn how to play SC2 for the last 6 years. I really don't know if you're just acting, or if you started out acting and then actually became that person but you're the most delusional RTS player I've ever seen in my Life. Your view on the game and the reality of SC2 is so far apart that it's almost unfathomable. Also if you want to talk about relevance please just take a look at your Aligulac rating and then take a good look at yourself: http://aligulac.com/players/987-avilo/
I really don't think Avilo should be taken seriously. He is just doing it for money and knows people will watch him if he whines. Look at his Twitter feed all you will find is stuff like "if you want me to play sc2 then sub to me if you don't sub I will have to play other games [where he has 30ish viewers] to grow my stream".
He is just a failure representing a part of what is wrong with online communities these days...
Constant blaming of anything but themselves.
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And again the grandmasters aren't even willing to remotely say anything relating to balance. Great.
Strategic diversity-> higher winrate? If that is so why don't pro terrans play mech more often? Oh right it's about as valid as proxy ghost cloak vs protoss.
Avilo's latest tweet was probably just a way of saying: I hate starcraft as it is atm, sub so I have a reason to play.
Oh well keep it up people. Atleast it's amusing to read.
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Germany767 Posts
On May 07 2017 03:31 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote:
And again the grandmasters aren't even willing to remotely say anything relating to balance. Great.
Strategic diversity-> higher winrate? If that is so why don't pro terrans play mech more often? Oh right it's about as valid as proxy ghost cloak vs protoss.
Avilo's latest tweet was probably just a way of saying: I hate starcraft as it is atm, sub so I have a reason to play.
Oh well keep it up people. Atleast it's amusing to read.
Mech is the niche and Bio the standard, that's just how the game developed, making Mech as valid as Bio isn't anything most people desire and changing such a core concept at this point is an almost impossible undertaking. There's plenty of Terrans that occasionally Mech on a much higher level than Avilo even though he does it full time and it's really hard to play vs Mech if you faced a strong standard opening that could transition either way but you prepared more for Bio. Those Terrans play real build orders and are willing to admit they lost because of their own mistakes instead of making incredibly unpleasant sounds into their microphone.
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On May 07 2017 03:34 Liquid`TLO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2017 03:31 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote:
And again the grandmasters aren't even willing to remotely say anything relating to balance. Great.
Strategic diversity-> higher winrate? If that is so why don't pro terrans play mech more often? Oh right it's about as valid as proxy ghost cloak vs protoss.
Avilo's latest tweet was probably just a way of saying: I hate starcraft as it is atm, sub so I have a reason to play.
Oh well keep it up people. Atleast it's amusing to read.
Mech is the niche and Bio the standard, that's just how the game developed, making Mech as valid as Bio isn't anything most people desire and changing such a core concept at this point is an almost impossible undertaking.
That is correct. There is absolutely no flaw in that reasoning. I just wish Blizzard would straight out tell us for once that they intend to keep it that way, so we can accept that the swarm host is meant to keep mech the niche.
If they did then people would have no choice but to let this ''discussion'' end. Avilo could stop preaching to the choir and these community feedback updates wouldn't be filled with a myriad of philosophical game changes either.
Honestly why is blizzard even opting for transparancy without being transparant themselves about what they want starcraft 2 lotv to be.
Anyway what do you personally think of the thor and the tempest buff? I'd like to know that much atleast.
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