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Hello everyone! We have some small updates planned for next week’s update to the Balance Testing Matchmaking queue. As always these are subject to change prior to a patch going live, so let us know your thoughts and feedback!
Thor
We would like to try out a different path with changes to the Thor for the next update. Changing its anti-air weapon to flat damage does make the Thor very powerful in sweeping air units, but we feel it also reduced counter play vs the Thor a bit too much. So instead of flatly increasing its air attack we would like to try a buff to the Thor’s survivability and a minor usability improvement. To this end we will be trying the following:
- Reverting Thor anti air attack to its prior values.
- Bringing back High Impact Payload
- Increasing base armor from 1 to 2
- Decreasing transformation time between anti air forms
This increase in armor should quite noticeably improve the Thor’s durability against quick attacking units like Zerglings thus improving its role in absorbing damage while dealing heavy damage in return during combat.
Tempest
We like the current direction of the Tempest having more damage against massive air units but would like to tone its damage back very slightly.
- Reduce Tempest +massive damage from 25 to 22
#WCS Austin & GSL
We would like to thank all the players, casters, organizers and viewers who made WCS Austin such a great tournament this past weekend and shout out to Neeb for his victory! We also wish good luck to those currently battling it out in GSL, it’s been a very exciting season and we look forward to more games!
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I don't really care how exactly you buff thors, as long as Thors become a reliable GtA unit.
It would be amazing if you could counter mass air units, by building ground units instead of being forced to mass air units yourself.
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Not sure to understand exactly when they "Bringing back High Impact Payload"
Increasing its armor is good by the way
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a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units.
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nerf tempest massive dmg? are u fking serious? blizzard really wants to set tempest as a trash unit, so what about buffing zealots or stalkers? take a look on this http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_StarCraft_II_StarLeague_Season_1/Premier
also gsl code s, look the amount of zerg-terran-protoss players and their scores, protoss is by far the worst race on results, but its okay for you blizzard, i give up on your balance methods.
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Still no fix to swarm hosts...
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I like the thor change.
I don't like the tempest buff because of the tempest - broodlord interaction.
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Austria24416 Posts
Hey, what happened to reducing charge research cost?
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On May 05 2017 05:22 Olli wrote:
Hey, what happened to reducing charge research cost?
I think they're gonna leave that change in the test realm as is
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why people talking about "buff" for tempest, do you read the changers or what? its says REDUCE DAMAGE FROM +25 TO 22, sigh.
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Just make the Thor smaller in size a bit. It would make Thors less clunky, more present in a fight, and the damage of multiple Thors would stack abit more in area. It is the rediculous size and clunkiness that is killing its effectiveness.
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On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units.
The viking production change is simply brilliant. It would solve one of the core problems with the game.
The Swarm Hosts changes are good but the unit will become UP if all of them are implemented. I suggest just testing just a few of them.
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On May 05 2017 05:27 wiNgiAN wrote:
why people talking about "buff" for tempest, do you read the changers or what? its says REDUCE DAMAGE FROM +25 TO 22, sigh.
Because the current damage is +14 against massive and the +25 was a change they were testing. 14 --> 22 is still a buff.
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On May 05 2017 05:38 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2017 05:12 avilo wrote:
a) So not fixing or addressing mech anti-air, instead going backwards again
b) tempest does not need buffs, all air units in the game need nerfs to prevent turtle/stalemate gameplay/mass air
These changes took weeks to come up with? They don't address anything, and they move the game backwards, particularly the tempest change.
And mech anti-air is still left in the dust. Mass raven / swarmhost are still in the game.
Why is there not a single word about swarmhosts being abusive versus mech? It's been since November 2016 when patch 3.8 came out and swarmhosts became ridiculous to play against for anyone opting for mech play.
I love Blizzard games, i love SC2. But it's clear there's no direction from the balance team for a while, or they do not know or understand mech problems enough to propose good solutions to making mech more viable without making it OP.
Considering I have played mech since Wings of Liberty Beta almost exclusively over bio, and been Grandmasters playing around 95% mech games versus every race, i would like to sincerely extend my knowledge and expertise to Blizzard if they are willing to work with someone in the community to get some impactful changes into the game.
Riot Games commonly consults 1 trick ponies in the LoL community for changes to specific champions, such as when they were thinking about buffing the champion Annie they consulted a well known streamer "Annie Bot" to get his opinions and feedback on what would be good and bad changes in terms of buffs and nerfs.
I would love it if Blizzard reached out to me and directly talked with me about some good ideas to implement to help out mech viability, specifically in the department of mech not having any anti-air available.
A lot of people know i am running a tournament soon and it will be on an extension mod. I specifically address one core problem for mech viability, being that mech has no AA. The core design change i did was as follows, as well as a few other quality of life changes that allow mech to be more playable without changing much at all with how units operate - just simply the accessibly of anti-air for mech:
Vikings can now be produced from factories, reactor factories, and starports.
Vikings produced from factories come out in assault mode (ground mode).
Vikings produced from starports come out in air mode.
Vikings by default can no longer transform between ground and air mode (to prevent early game cheeses vs Z).
Armory price reduced to 100/50 from 150/100.
Transformation servos upgrade available at the factory tech lab for 50/50, research time 41 seconds.
Transformation servos requires an armory to be researched.
Transformation servos allows hellions and vikings to transform between modes freely.
I have already tested this change across many games, and it's proven to give mech a viable AA option and response to air that already exists in the game without doing any unit statistic changes.
The impact of the change means a meching Terran now can react to the opponent's air transition by mass producing vikings from the factories that they already have, essentially giving mech a mass producible anti-air option similar to the goliath.
The change also means that a meching Terran is saving around 400-600 vespene gas and potentially 1-2 minutes of build time on starports. The gas saved from not forcing a mech Terran to have to turtle into 5 starports to counter air changes the flow of the game entirely, allowing a mech Terran to now attack more often as well as go past 5 factories and play a true macro game instead of being limited to not going past 5 factories.
I would highly encourage Blizzard to consult me about this idea, as i mentioned i have already tested it and will be running a tournament using the change. Many of the players that have played mech with this change were amazed that they had a viable AA option and a true anti-air response from the factory to the opponent massing air units.
I've played and streamed this game for 5-6 years now and love the game like everyone here on the forums do, and like i'm sure Blizzard does, but it's clear the changes that are being proposed by blizzard really have little to no impact on helping mech viability, so sincerely again i would hope they will consider consulting with me about changes to help mech viability.
Swarmhosts are also a huge issue right now for mech viability and on the map i made the changes:
Swarmhosts are slower off of creep.
Swarmhosts remain fast on creep.
Swarmhost hp reduced to 120 from 160.
Swarmhosts now have the light tag.
Swarmhosts are 6 supply.
These might seem heavy handed but the unit is really making the game unenjoyable for quite a ton of people, and it's limiting strategic diversity all by itself in terms of mech Terran.
Also p.s. the original thor flat 12 damage change is also on the mod i made with Darkblizzard (name of the arcade mapmaker/map designer). Blizzard needs to stop being afraid of strategic diversity and letting mech become playable. The thor flat AA change was a really good change. Ground anti-air should be stronger than air units. The viking production change is simply brilliant. It would solve one of the core problems with the game. The Swarm Hosts changes are good but the unit will become UP if all of them are implemented. I suggest just testing just a few of them.
SH changes don't make them UP it makes them forced to a harrassment role rather than "being the entire army" role. They are still just as strong and usable from a harrassment perspective, but you will be punished as a player if you decide to make your entire army as swarmhosts. Which is definitely a much better direction for balance than the current "he's going mech - i'll make 20 swarmhost and auto-win."
Also note: there are raven nerfs that correspond with the swarmhost nerfs as well. Ravens 4 supply, etc. My change is optimal and will help save the game.
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Instead changing SH you better remove it and change another unit your changes are a joke honestly. It's enough give them light tag so helions can kill them, what you want never see them into the game. lol
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I know you hate SH avilo but you claim that they don't support strategic diversity, yet by nerfing them so much you're doing the exact same thing by making them so useless.
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Sometimes its better to just remove a unit (swarmhost) and not to try to balance it.... like they did with the HERC and Warhound
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On May 05 2017 05:42 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2017 05:27 wiNgiAN wrote:
why people talking about "buff" for tempest, do you read the changers or what? its says REDUCE DAMAGE FROM +25 TO 22, sigh. Because the current damage is +14 against massive and the +25 was a change they were testing. 14 --> 22 is still a buff.
oh i see, thought they were talking about the total dmg, ty for explain.
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btw, tempest buff is needed, so pvp skytoss is not going for carriers vs carriers anymore, and it helps a bit in pvt for tutle terrans getting bcs.
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On May 05 2017 06:00 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Sometimes its better to just remove a unit (swarmhost) and not to try to balance it.... like they did with the HERC and Warhound
You could honestly say that for A LOT of lotv units :S
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM809rKWoAAiV0C.jpg)
