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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On April 09 2017 11:00 BigFan wrote: lol Idra, funny guy. Doubt he'll come to SCII though, I think he's done for good since what, HoTS? i wonder where he put that "Tire Iron" ?  | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
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Eridanus
United States75 Posts
You will actually feel that people in those kinds of positions have an unusual ability to not be bothered by it. Either out of narcissism or insensitivity. And we 'normal' people feel that so many people having opinions on you would be stressful at best, hurtful at worst. Until it become tasteless, personal, threads of violence, I wouldn't feel sorry for people in prominent positions. I would be more worried about certain type of people deciding against taking on high profile jobs because they don't have the thick skin or insensitivity to criticism to take on such jobs, despite their ability to do those jobs well. You create a bias in favour of certain people for these important positions. In the end it was David Kim's job to be a foil for all the criticism customers put out, so that others didn't have to deal with it. They paid him handsomely for that, so they didn't have to pay their other employee's similar money because they remained unaffected. On April 08 2017 23:27 HalcyonRain wrote: I always thought that SC2 had large game design problems. One of which was warpgate negating the defenders advantage, meaning the units that could come out of gateways had to be weaker. This led to reliance on hero units, like the colossus, to win games; promoting a turtle-like style of play. There are many other problems I see but they're mostly problems that would have to be fixed by radical overhauls. Instead of overhauling the game Blizzard gave David Kim (and Co.) a stack of band-aids and said "fix our patient that's bleeding out due to massive lacerations". Realistically, there was only so much David Kim could do to patch up a patient in critical condition, with band-aids. I think he, and the rest of the balance team, did a fine job when you consider their situation. Unfortunately, I found that I was not a member of SC2's target audience. I just didn't find the gameplay that compelling or engaging (when compared to BW). I still checked in every now and then, but never found SC2 gameplay as compelling as BW. Regardless of this I wish David Kim the best in his future projects. Being the head of the balance team was (is) a rough job. I would liken it to the job of U.S. Federal Reserve's Janet Yellen. Much like Yellen he had the job of soothing the masses; and no matter what he did, someone was going to be pissed. So good luck David Kim. I hope your next position in Blizzard will be a little less stressful. Lastly, I'd just like to point out that my view of SC2 is just my opinion. I came from BW and would have liked SC2 to be more like BW; so my opinion is very biased and should be taken with a large amount of salt. I agree very much with this. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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htx.RuNe
12 Posts
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xtorn
4060 Posts
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Jealous
10096 Posts
On April 08 2017 14:29 MockHamill wrote: Well given the horrible units that had to work with (Swarm Hosts, Tempest, Adepts etc) he did a decent work at balancing the winrates for the top 0.01%. Only one person can save SC2 now but I do not think he will get the job. Rofl is it avilo? | ||
digmouse
China6326 Posts
On April 10 2017 12:06 htx.RuNe wrote: The big question here is, who is replacing him? Because if he leaves and such an important position isn't immediately filled by a replacement, that basically confirms SC2 is in maintenance mode now - whatever headless remnant of the design team is still around won't have either the ability or authority to change the game, nevermind revive it from its slump. Truth is, the design decisions are not his own, it is a team effort, he is just the one that takes the blame. Same for Ghostcrawler and his WoW days. | ||
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StormsInJuly
Sweden165 Posts
On April 09 2017 21:46 Eridanus wrote: You should never feel sorry for a person that choose to be in a position of power and great financial award for being criticized on how they do their job. He didn't have to take that position. You will actually feel that people in those kinds of positions have an unusual ability to not be bothered by it. Either out of narcissism or insensitivity. And we 'normal' people feel that so many people having opinions on you would be stressful at best, hurtful at worst. Until it doesn't become tasteless, personal, threads of violence, I wouldn't feel sorry for people in prominent positions. Please don't rationalize the awful behavior of this community by claiming that dkim doesn't have feelings like a 'normal' person. A lot of the hate directed toward him was exactly that (tasteless, personal, threats of violence) | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
On April 09 2017 21:46 Eridanus wrote: Until it doesn't become tasteless, personal, threads of violence, I wouldn't feel sorry for people in prominent positions. except that it happened. we're not thinking that he's a poor baby soul, we're considering that he's a grown professional with the capabilities to handle the pressure and yet we still sympathize; as if you read some of the hate comments, a lot of them quickly became personal for whatever reason, even if we know that he is in a position to receive them. the alternatives are that we blame dustin browder, blizzard as the entire company, or god forbid.. ourselves, lol, upon realizing that we need to take responsibility for having to improve our own playstyle. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24578 Posts
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Eridanus
United States75 Posts
On April 10 2017 16:59 StormsInJuly wrote: Please don't rationalize the awful behavior of this community by claiming that dkim doesn't have feelings like a 'normal' person. A lot of the hate directed toward him was exactly that (tasteless, personal, threats of violence) How is it a rationalization? I already know many of Blizzard's customers are complete trash, illogical, and immature people. Never mind the immoral behavior they display online because they think it doesn't matter what you say as long as you think you are anonymous. I am talking about how sorry we should feel for David Kim. Or Lloyd Blankfein. Or some Kardasian. Or Donald Trump. Or anyone who decides they really want the spotlight. These people get exactly what they want. We shouldn't feel sorry for people getting exactly what they want. If they wanted something else, they can just quit. User was warned for this post | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5212 Posts
On April 10 2017 16:15 digmouse wrote: Truth is, the design decisions are not his own, it is a team effort, he is just the one that takes the blame. Same for Ghostcrawler and his WoW days. But he was the leader. He is to blame for the decisions of his team when they are bad, and gets the credit when they are good. People always forget that latter part. There are plenty of the games that don't get the criticism SC2 does. If SC2 was a masterpiece in game design, I'd be happy to heap praise on David Kim. | ||
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Cinskywind1
16 Posts
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NKB
United Kingdom608 Posts
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xtorn
4060 Posts
On April 10 2017 16:15 digmouse wrote: Truth is, the design decisions are not his own, it is a team effort, he is just the one that takes the blame. Same for Ghostcrawler and his WoW days. Hmm, compared to David Kim, Ghostcrawler Street had a much harsher time with the community. I think Ghostcrawler took maybe thrice the hate that DK experienced. And now that he is lead designer at Riot, he received death threats too http://www.12up.com/posts/4376634-design-director-for-lol-receives-death-threats "I’ve had weird phone calls in the middle of the night. I’ve had death threats. I’ve had Blizzard security offer to monitor my house. I’ve had designers who had to work with the FBI on threats. I’m also an upper class, straight, white dude, and I know developers who aren’t who have gotten much, much worse from players https://www.google.de/amp/s/www.pcgamesn.com/league-of-legends/ghostcrawler-community-death-threats-fbi?amp --- Maybe it is a job description thing for Lead Game Designers in general, to be viciously hated?! As in, "please be aware that once you begin work, you are highly recommended that you also take our subsidized self defense classes or consider our bodyguard offer." | ||
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Serruptitious1
1 Post
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warlocke
97 Posts
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
My sum up: Patching Pace: I feel like it was as well too fast and too slow at times. In the very beginning it was way too slow. It took ages to create a proper gameplay for zerg in the beginning of WOL, were you simply lost either to all-ins or to your own overreaction in 50% of games. Then BL/Inf was allowed way too long. Later on some changes were probably too quick. I wouldn't name mines though as their nerf was justified imo. I would have buffed tanks or anything else instead in order to get bio complemented with more gas heavy and less mobile units instead of another almost gasless and still quite mobile unit like the mine. Overall I would say changes came in too slow and with a narrow focus mainly/only on the problem itself and not taking conditions into account enough and if taken into account still not being addressed. DK vs. JW: Balance Design is the game design of SC2 MP. While it is technically not the same position effectively as the lead balance designer of SC2 you do design the game's impact more than anyone else I guess (after engine and other basics are in place). The design perspective: Was brought in and came to attention way too late. I remember when I talked about design 80% of TL believed it is not important and the only thing that matters is balance on top level play. It went in the whole wrong direction and majorly blizzard/DK can be blamed for that aside of the people in the community who jumped on that and created an athmosphere were constructive changes was not possible even though for a long time it was already obvious that SC2 did not deliver the way everybody wanted it to and sole and simple focus on little balance changes could not ever get the job done in the right way. Overall failures of SC2 that required early focus on but were neglected: - macromechanics allow comeback in only very few situations and depending on the respective mechanic only to a certain extend but in most cases allow the player with the advantage to even pull ahead further - macromechanic mule as the main killer of aggression against terran that does not kill the terran. Was required for the following highly detrimental state of the game which only terran players themselves consider as granted: - terran bio gameplay without much need for gas, without impactful transitions and with barely any need to adapt to opponents decisions for long periods of SC2. You simply built more bio against bio hard counters with only very few variations, you didn't need more than 4-5 gas whole game long and were sitting on 2-3k gas after a few minutes into the game, you could and still can trade your SCV against enemy combat units up to a certain extend and in certain situations (mainly in TvZ) which made play against terran mostly passive, boring and one-dimensional. - that was compensated with ridiculous stuff like MSC sight range, warp back, pylon/nexus cannon, Oracles (!), swarmhosts, mutalisk buff, ravagers etc. which took the game again into the wrong direction: - gimmicky units over usual units (tiring) - timing and positioning over strategy and micro (frustrating) - 10% of game has 90% impact while 90% of the game has only 10% of impact (both) - few consitency in both ingame battles and players: does the oracle hit while marines are 1-2 cm out of position or are they perfectly in position, fights over that quickly that top level players can barely make a difference (lose of trust, hope and positive feelings towards the game). Still one of the best competitive games of the last decade. But the extraordinary high expectations were not met at any single point of time for me. The game is very good, but lacking brilliance and excellence in too many aspects. This is most likely a result of the inevitable larger amounts of person working on such a thing compared to the 90s. It feels like too many compromises and trade-offs were accepted when designing and balancing the game. The game should have instead followed one guys (or limited group of people who work closely together) vision that exactly envisioned what, how and why the final product should look like. Hence I believe while DK did a good job it is positive to let it do someone else from now. At least there is a very low chance that new approaches create new results and that one of them might hit the nail. | ||
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