EPT
INnoVationRyungMaruaLiveTYGuMihoByuNBunny
SolarDarkByuL
HushherODearIn addition,
Stats and soO received direct seeds from their placements in GSL Season 1.Join us on 6 April for the start of the Round of 16.
GSL Super Tournament - Qualifiers Complete
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munch
Mute City2363 Posts
INnoVationRyungMaruaLiveTYGuMihoByuNBunnySolarDarkByuLHushherODearIn addition, Stats and soO received direct seeds from their placements in GSL Season 1.Join us on 6 April for the start of the Round of 16.
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maitiky
Czech Republic54 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 29 2017 22:27 maitiky wrote: 8-4-4 racial distribution? Don't wanna whine about balance, but... Anyway, little surprising that sOs and/or Zest (not to mention Classic) didn't make it through. Also Scarlett was apparently one series away from qualifying, bad luck. Zest was in a bracket with Inno and Ryung, it's sad he didn't make it but at the same time I didn't expect him to get through that either. sOs on the other hand? That bracket wasn't that hard. | ||
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Ziggy
South Korea2106 Posts
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On March 29 2017 22:27 maitiky wrote: 8-4-4 racial distribution? Don't wanna whine about balance, but... Anyway, little surprising that sOs and/or Zest (not to mention Classic) didn't make it through. Also Scarlett was apparently one series away from qualifying, bad luck. I don't see any reason to balance whine here, as the lineup isn't Protoss dominated  At the current state, I can't really enjoy games that include Protoss that much, so I am pretty glad for a Terran dominated lineup. Also interesting is that it's basically the same old "usual suspects" again and again (with Hush and Bunny the only uncommon players). Some new blood would really be needed. There are even quite a few tourneys nowadays in Korea, but I think there is a huge issue with the fact that each tourney gets a small amount of players, through basically the same overly fierce qualifiers. | ||
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AlexGPunkt
Germany258 Posts
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imre
France9263 Posts
On March 29 2017 22:45 chipmonklord17 wrote: Feels weird calling this the super tournament after the first one was a giant 64 man tournament celebrating the open season format 2011 vs 2017 | ||
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beepbeeeeeeep
145 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 29 2017 22:47 AlexGPunkt wrote: Are there Vods available? Maybe even with english commentary? Nope. The best you can get are 4 or so 20 second clips on JYP's twitter. | ||
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beepbeeeeeeep
145 Posts
On March 29 2017 23:05 Elentos wrote: Nope. The best you can get are 4 or so 20 second clips on JYP's twitter. 20 second clips of SCII?! I just cannot fap to that.... | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On March 29 2017 23:07 beepbeeeeeeep wrote: 20 second clips of SCII?! I just cannot fap to that.... Then try harder you amateur. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1913 Posts
On March 29 2017 23:15 StarscreamG1 wrote: Terran was designed with a bigger skill cap, and this will continue to happen year after year. As players get better, terran become much better. I don't have other way to say it - bad design :\ Terran has the highest mechanical cap. That's a little different than what you're describing. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 29 2017 23:47 [PkF] Wire wrote: Wow what a surprising amount of Terrans. Did all Protoss players forfeit ? Classic lost to Hush, does that count as forfeiting?  | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On March 29 2017 23:15 StarscreamG1 wrote: Terran was designed with a bigger skill cap, and this will continue to happen year after year. As players get better, terran become much better. I don't have other way to say it - bad design :\ Since when did Terran player became better then other player across time? The end of HOTS, the time when terran should have been domiting the game was almost perfecly balanced. And there is a huge skill cap for both zerg and protoss, big enough that we will most probably never sees it for any races. | ||
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Ve5pa
United Kingdom252 Posts
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Poopi
France12908 Posts
On March 29 2017 23:47 [PkF] Wire wrote: Wow what a surprising amount of Terrans. Did all Protoss players forfeit ? More like there aren't enough sc2 players anymore :/. Bunch of random KR players and walk-overs everywhere sadly. Go ByuN I guess, do it Polt style. | ||
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Bijan
United States286 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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Darkdwarf
Sweden960 Posts
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On March 29 2017 22:44 Darkhorse wrote: The return of GOMTvT can Virus come out of retirement please? | ||
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DreamOen
Spain1400 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 30 2017 00:25 Poopi wrote: More like there aren't enough sc2 players anymore :/. Bunch of random KR players and walk-overs everywhere sadly. yeah theres only four top protoss players in KR nowadays edit: I can ryung and aLive doign suprisingly well with the extreme number of Terran. maybe well see them at blizzcon afterall | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 30 2017 02:57 Olli wrote: Where's those people telling me how favored Protoss is against Terran? If it wasn't for Stats people would be mad. Is he gonna be for protoss this year what Dark was for Zerg in 2016? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
If it wasn't for Stats people would be mad. Is he gonna be for protoss this year what Dark was for Zerg in 2016? Certainly looks like it atm. Though the lesser Terrans did get pretty lucky with brackets. With any luck they should drop like flies in the Ro16 without sniping too many top Terrans. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
I was under the impression it would be 100% Protoss after all the balance whining. Well, winning GSL is a much bigger deal than winning a Super Tournament, let alone just being in the Ro16, to be fair. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
On March 29 2017 23:53 Elentos wrote: Classic lost to Hush, does that count as forfeiting? ha ha | ||
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Poopi
France12908 Posts
On March 30 2017 02:57 Olli wrote: Where's those people telling me how favored Protoss is against Terran? They are busy partying after Stats victory, so much hangover à la Stephano so they can't make enough adepts to qualify? :D | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
They are busy partying after Stats victory, so much hangover à la Stephano so they can't make enough adepts to qualify? :D herO made enough Adepts and Phoenixes to beat Scarlett and Major by their own testimony. But apparently not enough to beat aLive. Still qualified though. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On March 30 2017 03:33 pvsnp wrote: Certainly looks like it atm. Though the lesser Terrans did get pretty lucky with brackets. With any luck they should drop like flies in the Ro16 without sniping too many top Terrans. The funny thing is that even in that list of Terrans, only Bunny, aLive, and GuMiho are the weakest, and they've not been playing too poorly recently. Then there's Byun, Ryung, TY, Maru, and INnoVation, who are the strongest Terrans. Depending on the brackets, I could definitely see those five Terrans reaching the ro8. (Though with bracket luck, it's inevitable that some will play and knock each other out). | ||
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Poopi
France12908 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16035 Posts
On March 30 2017 05:19 FrkFrJss wrote: The funny thing is that even in that list of Terrans, only Bunny, aLive, and GuMiho are the weakest, and they've not been playing too poorly recently. Then there's Byun, Ryung, TY, Maru, and INnoVation, who are the strongest Terrans. Depending on the brackets, I could definitely see those five Terrans reaching the ro8. (Though with bracket luck, it's inevitable that some will play and knock each other out). switch aLive and Ryung and I agree. Ryung isn't really that impressive outside of tvt. | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 30 2017 05:42 Charoisaur wrote: switch aLive and Ryung and I agree. Ryung isn't really that impressive outside of tvt. I think Ryung's TvP is currently a lot better than people seem to give him credit for. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
I think Ryung's TvP is currently a lot better than people seem to give him credit for. Yeah I was going to say this. Ryung 2-0'd Zest twice after all, and managed to take two games off of Stats, the best PvT player by far. And I would say his TvT is overrated. Sure he beat ByuN and Maru, but neither of them have world-class TvT even though they are arguably world-class Terrans. Even though most people speak of ByuN, Maru, TY, and INnoVation in one breath, TY and Inno are measurably stronger than ByuN and Maru right now, especially in TvT. While TY has the best TvP and Inno has the best TvZ, both of them are at the very least just as good as Ryung/Gumiho/aLive in TvT, something which can't be said for ByuN and Maru. At this point, I'd argue that there's some pretty solid justification for splitting up the "Four Horsemen" because Inno and TY are a level above (and the only other players on their level are Stats and Dark). Coming back from that digression, Inno crushed Ryung 3-0 at IEM and 2-0 in the Super qualifiers; Ryung has good TvT but it's hardly the best in the world. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2217 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 30 2017 06:05 pvsnp wrote: Yeah I was going to say this. Ryung 2-0'd Zest twice after all, and managed to take two games off of Stats, the best PvT player by far. And I would say his TvT is overrated. Sure he beat ByuN and Maru, but neither of them have world-class TvT even though they are arguably world-class Terrans. Even though most people speak of ByuN, Maru, TY, and INnoVation in one breath, TY and Inno are measurably stronger than ByuN and Maru right now, especially in TvT. While TY has the best TvP and Inno has the best TvZ, both of them are at the very least just as good as Ryung/Gumiho/aLive in TvT, something which can't be said for ByuN and Maru. At this point, I'd argue that there's some pretty solid justification for splitting up the "Four Horsemen" because Inno and TY are a level above (and the only other players on their level are Stats and Dark). Coming back from that digression, Inno crushed Ryung 3-0 at IEM and 2-0 in the Super qualifiers; Ryung has good TvT but it's hardly the best in the world. Beating Zest in TvP isn't an amzing thing right now. The matchup becomes progressively easier when the protoss never transitions. Maru's TvT is weak? really? since the major patch he's currently: 9-6 against TY 5-0 against gumiho 5-4 against Byun 2-3 against aLive 1-3 against Ryung thats pretty damn solid. | ||
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LaughNgamez
Canada525 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On March 30 2017 08:11 LaughNgamez wrote: Lots of complaints about Terran being broken yet no one mentions how VSL is the exact opposite in favor of Toss. 8-4-4 cherry picking at its finest. VSL also had best of 1 qualifier memes and one group where only 2 players bothered to show up. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Beating Zest in TvP isn't an amzing thing right now. The matchup becomes progressively easier when the protoss never transitions. Maru's TvT is weak? really? since the major patch he's currently: 9-6 against TY 5-0 against gumiho 5-4 against Byun 2-3 against aLive 1-3 against Ryung thats pretty damn solid. Maru hasn't been playing in much at all lately, because of Jin Air still being a team. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he hasn't show enough top-level gameplay to justify being placed up with TY and Inno. Also Stats did roflstomp him in SSL, something which never happened to Inno or TY. It was embarrassing to watch, how he played right into Stats's hands both games. Both Inno and TY have done far better against Stats. He also lost to Dark in Super qualifiers yesterday, and basically just doesn't have a good record against top-tier opponents, just like ByuN and unlike both TY and Inno. Without consistently excellent results against the best players, it's hard to justify placing him at the very top. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Good, GomTvT was the best. eliminate the dirty protoss, especially stats. hopefully soo can extract his revenge and stomp him. would be ok with sos winning tho .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. | ||
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zealotstim
United States455 Posts
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seopthi
393 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:32 zealotstim wrote: Sweet equal distribution haha terran zerg toss and terran. Honestly the main ones I can think of who are missing are Classic and sOs. Who else was there? Zest as well. | ||
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Poopi
France12908 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. It depends on the patch tho. At Blizzcon, ByuN vs TY had very good macro games: even if you "doom dropped" you could counter it with tankivacs and it involved a lot of multitasking, which was fun to see, but now TvT is almost only positioning in the most boring way possible. | ||
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MalditoKyo
France76 Posts
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Eiltonn
Germany307 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. Its really sad because TvT used to be by far the best mirror matchup. Gosh i loved playing TvT in WoL. Ever since HOTS the matchup has been shit tho. | ||
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
On March 30 2017 19:50 RPR_Tempest wrote: Serious question. What's so super about this tournament? Nothing, there's no Super | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. I agree that TvT is annoying in the fact that lesser terrans can easily snipe the best ones, only to to to P/Z right after. That beind said, Katowice had some great TvTs with inno, alive, and ty | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24593 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 30 2017 09:49 pvsnp wrote: Maru hasn't been playing in much at all lately, because of Jin Air still being a team. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he hasn't show enough top-level gameplay to justify being placed up with TY and Inno. Also Stats did roflstomp him in SSL, something which never happened to Inno or TY. It was embarrassing to watch, how he played right into Stats's hands both games. Both Inno and TY have done far better against Stats. He also lost to Dark in Super qualifiers yesterday, and basically just doesn't have a good record against top-tier opponents, just like ByuN and unlike both TY and Inno. Without consistently excellent results against the best players, it's hard to justify placing him at the very top. Huh? You said that Maru's isn't as good at TvT compared to TY, Inno, Gumiho etc. I'd say being 9-6 against TY and 5-0 against gumiho is a good indicator that that isn't true. The only basis for saying Maru's weak are his games vs Ryung in GSL where he 100% fucked up (he really should have won that). And his games vs Stats in SSL, were Stats completely outsmarted him in g1 and got lucky as hell in g2, not saying it was all luck, stats did play better but he couldn't have lost that game if he tried (scouting proxy starport that was 3 sec of finishing, oracle getting game changing dmg, stasis ward on cyclones etc) | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Huh? You said that Maru's isn't as good at TvT compared to TY, Inno, Gumiho etc. I'd say being 9-6 against TY and 5-0 against gumiho is a good indicator that that isn't true. The only basis for saying Maru's weak are his games vs Ryung in GSL where he 100% fucked up (he really should have won that). And his games vs Stats in SSL, were Stats completely outsmarted him in g1 and got lucky as hell in g2, not saying it was all luck, stats did play better but he couldn't have lost that game if he tried (scouting proxy starport that was 3 sec of finishing, oracle getting game changing dmg, stasis ward on cyclones etc) Maru in recent offline TvT has defeated ByuN at Gyeonggi and Gumiho in Code S. He's lost to TY at WESG and Ryung in Code S. In SSL qualifiers he beat TY but lost to ByuN. Those are not the results of a top TvT player, though they are not terrible either. I suppose an argument could be made that he is on par with the other top Terrans; I conflated ByuN and Maru somewhat in my previous post. That said, I will still argue that Maru has not shown the superb TvP or TvZ necessary to place him alongside INnoVation or TY. He has played fewer matches than both of them and gotten worse results against top Protoss/Zerg players like Dark or Stats. He has won no tournaments nor have his most recent matches displayed any astonishing return to form. Basically I'm saying there isn't enough evidence across all matchups to say Maru is as good as TY/Inno right now. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 30 2017 19:50 RPR_Tempest wrote: Serious question. What's so super about this tournament? It's totally super that we're even getting another Korean tournament :p | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Also a random thought just occured to me. Only the top 4 players from GSL Season 1 were seeded into GSL Season 2, unlike the top 8 last year. Could it be possible that the top 4 of this Super Tournament will be seeded into Season 2? Or did Afreeca just decide that 4 is just a much better number than 8? | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
On March 30 2017 11:02 pvsnp wrote: .....Terran usually produces the best matchups (TvZ by far most entertaining matchup), but TvT is awful to watch. Just poking and prodding until bam-doomdrop-gg. It's so luck-dependent, so scouting-dependent, that it's basically down to whomever makes the first mistake loses. Even guys like TY or INnoVation can't manage much better than that. Also, there's the loathsome aspect where lesser Terrans defeat superior Terrans and then get stomped by the top Protoss/Zerg players that otherwise would have produced great matches against the top Terrans but alas they got sniped. I hate it so much when that happens. Disagree, TvT is like an exciting chess match. Love the positioning and controlling space with siege tanks. Love the poking and prodding. Had exciting matches such as Inno vs Taeja where inno went mech and taeja went bio. Whereas ZvZ and PvP are mostly boring to watch (exception being SoS stomping hero at IEM for 100k). ZvZ was especially bad back in the day, that one GSL finals with Roro vs Symbol and it was broodlings fighting each other ... whereas Gom tvt was always exciting to me shrug | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On April 01 2017 03:26 fishjie wrote: Disagree, TvT is like an exciting chess match. Love the positioning and controlling space with siege tanks. Love the poking and prodding. Had exciting matches such as Inno vs Taeja where inno went mech and taeja went bio. Whereas ZvZ and PvP are mostly boring to watch (exception being SoS stomping hero at IEM for 100k). ZvZ was especially bad back in the day, that one GSL finals with Roro vs Symbol and it was broodlings fighting each other ... whereas Gom tvt was always exciting to me shrug If every piece on the chess board except for the king was a queen, then maybe the current iteration of TvT would perhaps have something in common with chess. On March 31 2017 13:13 pvsnp wrote: The wiki article shows a Bo5 Ro16. There's no group stage? Also a random thought just occured to me. Only the top 4 players from GSL Season 1 were seeded into GSL Season 2, unlike the top 8 last year. Could it be possible that the top 4 of this Super Tournament will be seeded into Season 2? Or did Afreeca just decide that 4 is just a much better number than 8? I assume they went from 8 to 4 because they removed Code A, 4 extra spots up for contention in the qualifiers could help ensure Code S doesn't stagnate too much. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Disagree, TvT is like an exciting chess match. Love the positioning and controlling space with siege tanks. Love the poking and prodding. Had exciting matches such as Inno vs Taeja where inno went mech and taeja went bio. Whereas ZvZ and PvP are mostly boring to watch (exception being SoS stomping hero at IEM for 100k). ZvZ was especially bad back in the day, that one GSL finals with Roro vs Symbol and it was broodlings fighting each other ... whereas Gom tvt was always exciting to me shrug TaeJa vs INnoVation on Newkirk is still the single greatest game of Starcraft II ever played. No doubt about that. But 2017 TvT is not 2013 TvT. Mech is nonexistent, everyone always goes marine-tank, and whomever lands a doomdrop first wins. Mech vs mech with seeker missiles could be called a chess match. These days TvT is more like Russian Roulette. I assume they went from 8 to 4 because they removed Code A, 4 extra spots up for contention in the qualifiers could help ensure Code S doesn't stagnate too much. That makes sense, I guess. Though players #5 to #8 were TY, herO, INnoVation, and Maru. I don't think anyone expects any of those four to fall in qualifiers. | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
Racial distribution is a bit off though, as a Zerg player I don't relish the thought of a TvT finals. | ||
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seopthi
393 Posts
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On April 01 2017 05:36 pvsnp wrote: That makes sense, I guess. Though players #5 to #8 were TY, herO, INnoVation, and Maru. I don't think anyone expects any of those four to fall in qualifiers. They could end up in the same bracket. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
They could end up in the same bracket. Aren't the brackets seeded by standings? There should be no way for all 4 high-ranked players to be seeded into the same bracket. Maybe 2, but definitely not all 4. Innovation looks fairly unstoppable especially with Terran being to strong in the current meta, Dark could take it all but he has to get through Innovation first which uh, I'm not entirely sure if that's even possible right now. He really just knows how to execute absolutely everything perfectly and his reads are pretty much on a Dark level. Racial distribution is a bit off though, as a Zerg player I don't relish the thought of a TvT finals. INnoVation looked even more unstoppable before GSL and Katowice, and look at who won those. He is one of the favorites, to be sure, but hardly invincible. | ||
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