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On February 25 2017 03:25 Barnabaszu wrote:
the game doesnt look good atm - it's not "elegant" if u know what i mean. Too much worker harass focused, adepts are a bad design imo, sh hard counter mech whitch last patch was designed to make viable. Zerg seems op yet zerg players cant win games latelly - game design seems bad right now. Look at sos quaterfinals games - very dissapointing imo, only the last game was good; the game seems balanced but it's not in a good spot - it's just my personal feeling and I've been following the scene non stop from wol beta. Hard to point one thing that's wrong...
And on top of that, instead of buffing Zerg's ground AA (Hydra health buff won't do shit vs Airtoss they are worthless vs Carriers), they are buffing Zerg air units, like this game really needs more aerial end game situations?
Skyterran was a thing, everyone despised it, nerfed..
Skytoss is still a thing, everyone despises it, Blizzard trying not to nerf Protoss air but buff Zerg air..
Zerg air army was OP in WoL? Well that obviously means with a buffed Brood Lord now we need buffed Corruptors with regenerating Mutas for the sake of balance..
This balance team is CLUELESS and have been scrambling since this mech patch, what the hell are they even trying to accomplish? Aircraft 2 ?
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Buffing speed and subtle micro elements is probably one of the most innocuous ways for Blizzard to buff the Corruptor.
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After mulling over the back and forth with the The_Red_Viper i propose that every Reaper ability gets removed except cliff jumping. To compensate for this simply improve the Reaper's basic attack and health stats. If that means its basic stats must be improved to keep the early game balanced then do that. If this makes the Reaper too "massable" later on in the game then increase its supply cost to 2.
this change to the Reaper also helps new players, less hard core players, and makes the game easier to learn.
On February 25 2017 03:58 eviltomahawk wrote:
Buffing speed and subtle micro elements is probably one of the most innocuous ways for Blizzard to buff the Corruptor.
good point. if the current Hydra buff and Corruptor buff do not provide enough anti-air for Zerg I'm in favour of another Hydralisk buff. Preferably a buff to its anti-air weapon.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36948 Posts
Phoenix/Adept is so freaking hard to play against as Terran... How in the world are we supposed to respond to that strategy?
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On February 24 2017 07:49 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Why hide the poll results?
I thought the poll results would be possible for anyone to show. Didn't realize that I had the power.
My line of thought was that some people want to see the results before voting while others wanted to see them after voting.
Well, you live and you learn.
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This patch will achieve two two things:
1) It will make mech, which is already very weak in TvZ and TvP, completely extinct. You will never see a mech game outside of TvT ever again.
2) It will make Terran weak overall even though the game is balanced at the very top. Current GSL top 4 is perfectly balanced with 2 Protoss, 1 Zerg, 1 Terran.
Maybe it is for the best. Every coffin needs a nail.
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On February 25 2017 04:37 MockHamill wrote:
This patch will achieve two two things:
1) It will make mech, which is already very weak in TvZ and TvP, completely extinct. You will never see a mech game outside of TvT ever again.
2) It will make Terran weak overall even though the game is balanced at the very top. Current GSL top 4 is perfectly balanced with 2 Protoss, 1 Zerg, 1 Terran.
Maybe it is for the best. Every coffin needs a nail.
Mech is always going to be weak as long as units like the Viper (exists literally only to hard counter mech imo it sucks vs everything else except yanking Colossus/Disruptor which is pretty much like mech anyways) and the Swarm Host (absolutely horrible vs anything except mech which it borderline hard counters) are in the game in their current incarnation.
They can buff tank damage all day long, but at the end of the day, Abduct and Blinding Cloud makes it all a moot point.
One beef I have with the current mech design is how pathetic Banshees are as the game goes on but how powerful they are when caught unprepared, it's like the Dark Templar effect all over again.
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Regarding the reaper: I am of the opinion that
1) the grenade damage should be drastically lowered, perhaps removed.
2) an upgrade to the reapers, which gives grenades damage boost (preferably a lot vs buildings, since I liked the late game reaper base destruction of WoL low leagues) to be available at the tech lab. The upgrade could have an armory or factory requirement.
3) an upgrade to reapers, which gives them a vs light attack boost to be available at the tech lab with an engineering bay or even a +1 infantry weapons requirement.
Make them weaker in the early game but allow them to be used in the late game by us low tiered players. They were really fun to use in WoL.
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These changes just make tvp feel very unfun. I'm very opposed to. Widow mine nerf. As the match stands right now widow mines are often critical not only for harassment but for many defensive holds. Needing widow mines both heavily nerfs Terran harassment and weekend terran to allins. It's not the right change to fix the match up. Buff Protoss if they are to week but don't touch the widow mine. Currently both t and p have ways to vaporize workers with a nerf to the widowmine but no adjustment to Dts or orcles, all of the harassment advantages will be in Protoss's hands. Terran will likely adapt by relying on 100% on timing attacks creating gameplay resembling the days of pulling the boys. That era sucked don't bring it back! A if these changes go through I will pro ably race switch since playing Terran at anything below pro level will suck.
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On February 25 2017 05:04 Drfilip wrote:
Regarding the reaper: I am of the opinion that
1) the grenade damage should be drastically lowered, perhaps removed.
2) an upgrade to the reapers, which gives grenades damage boost (preferably a lot vs buildings, since I liked the late game reaper base destruction of WoL low leagues) to be available at the tech lab. The upgrade could have an armory or factory requirement.
3) an upgrade to reapers, which gives them a vs light attack boost to be available at the tech lab with an engineering bay or even a +1 infantry weapons requirement.
Make them weaker in the early game but allow them to be used in the late game by us low tiered players. They were really fun to use in WoL.
Make them weaker in the early game but allow them to be used in the late game by us low tiered players.
This is exactly what the balance team needs to do and it's pretty painful that they haven't, granted, all of us here remaining are more then used to that.
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On February 25 2017 04:37 MockHamill wrote:
2) It will make Terran weak overall even though the game is balanced at the very top. Current GSL top 4 is perfectly balanced with 2 Protoss, 1 Zerg, 1 Terran.
that is not enough data to proclaim perfect balance at the very top.
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mockhamill is a diamond/low master mech user who only wants to see low apm mech playstyles buffed/better and probably still refuses to play bio. It's weird, because mech is so unfun for everyone else except the terran, but somehow this concept is diffiicult to grasp for him.
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On February 25 2017 06:45 Comedy wrote:
mockhamill is a diamond/low master mech user who only wants to see low apm mech playstyles buffed/better and probably still refuses to play bio. It's weird, because mech is so unfun for everyone else except the terran, but somehow this concept is diffiicult to grasp for him.
Thinking your personal opinion is the truth is sad.
Many people love playing mech, many people love playing against mech, and many people love to watch mech be played at the top levels.
Nice try though
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On February 25 2017 06:47 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2017 06:45 Comedy wrote:
mockhamill is a diamond/low master mech user who only wants to see low apm mech playstyles buffed/better and probably still refuses to play bio. It's weird, because mech is so unfun for everyone else except the terran, but somehow this concept is diffiicult to grasp for him. Thinking your personal opinion is the truth is sad. Many people love playing mech, many people love playing against mech, and many people love to watch mech be played at the top levels. Nice try though
People love playing against mech? Since when, this morning? News to me!
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On February 25 2017 08:27 blunderfulguy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2017 06:47 JackONeill wrote:On February 25 2017 06:45 Comedy wrote:
mockhamill is a diamond/low master mech user who only wants to see low apm mech playstyles buffed/better and probably still refuses to play bio. It's weird, because mech is so unfun for everyone else except the terran, but somehow this concept is diffiicult to grasp for him. Thinking your personal opinion is the truth is sad. Many people love playing mech, many people love playing against mech, and many people love to watch mech be played at the top levels. Nice try though People love playing against mech? Since when, this morning? News to me!
Oh my, sarcasm ! That really must make your point very pertinent.
Some people do like playing against mech, some people don't. When i played Ptak on the ladder he said he really liked playing against mech.
Also "I don't like playing against this" isn't a valid point in discussing viability. I don't like playing against mutas, but that doesn't mean i'm gonna assume everybody does, and that if mutas weren't viable i wouldn't try to argue it's a good thing.
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On February 25 2017 08:47 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2017 08:27 blunderfulguy wrote:On February 25 2017 06:47 JackONeill wrote:On February 25 2017 06:45 Comedy wrote:
mockhamill is a diamond/low master mech user who only wants to see low apm mech playstyles buffed/better and probably still refuses to play bio. It's weird, because mech is so unfun for everyone else except the terran, but somehow this concept is diffiicult to grasp for him. Thinking your personal opinion is the truth is sad. Many people love playing mech, many people love playing against mech, and many people love to watch mech be played at the top levels. Nice try though People love playing against mech? Since when, this morning? News to me! Oh my, sarcasm ! That really must make your point very pertinent. Some people do like playing against mech, some people don't. When i played Ptak on the ladder he said he really liked playing against mech. Also "I don't like playing against this" isn't a valid point in discussing viability. I don't like playing against mutas, but that doesn't mean i'm gonna assume everybody does and say that nerfing the lib AA was a bad thing.
Vibe also said he likes playing against mech much more than playing against bio.
And to add to your point, they are thinking of nerfing WM wich a makes zealot/HT syles viable again, a style that was not fun to watch or play against and was only fun for the protoss player.
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When I think of
the games I win with mass reapers, and
the games I lose to mass reapers and
the games I watch people win or lose with/to mass reapers
I never ever got the impression (and also don't recall ever hearing anybody say it): "if granades wouldn't damage buildings, the result of this game would have been different." Yet, precisely this is what the think about loudly. It's like they are making a sport out of it to make their efforts as frustrating as possible for their customers.
They also need to stop buffing hydras. Eventually this will break the unit. It's not like Z needs to be pulled out of a 30% win rate all time low.
The corruptor buff ... I totally fail to comprehend that. Cyclones have been nerfed, liberators have been nerfed, quenns got a range buff and now corruptors will be 100% unkiteable and can run away from marines and widow mines easily. It also helps a decent amount vs. seaker missles and even a little vs. yamato cannon. Together with the hydra buff this is such a massive boost to ZvT air it is unbelievable. As if TvZ had been imba strong for centuries. #ParasiticBomb
I really cannot even begin to comprehend the corruptor buffs.
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On February 25 2017 08:54 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2017 08:47 JackONeill wrote:On February 25 2017 08:27 blunderfulguy wrote:On February 25 2017 06:47 JackONeill wrote:On February 25 2017 06:45 Comedy wrote:
mockhamill is a diamond/low master mech user who only wants to see low apm mech playstyles buffed/better and probably still refuses to play bio. It's weird, because mech is so unfun for everyone else except the terran, but somehow this concept is diffiicult to grasp for him. Thinking your personal opinion is the truth is sad. Many people love playing mech, many people love playing against mech, and many people love to watch mech be played at the top levels. Nice try though People love playing against mech? Since when, this morning? News to me! Oh my, sarcasm ! That really must make your point very pertinent. Some people do like playing against mech, some people don't. When i played Ptak on the ladder he said he really liked playing against mech. Also "I don't like playing against this" isn't a valid point in discussing viability. I don't like playing against mutas, but that doesn't mean i'm gonna assume everybody does and say that nerfing the lib AA was a bad thing. Vibe also said he likes playing against mech much more than playing against bio. And to add to your point, they are thinking of nerfing WM wich a makes zealot/HT syles viable again, a style that was not fun to watch or play against and was only fun for the protoss player.
Good point. I don't think zealots/HTs will be a thing again outside of allins or timing attacks (liberators, mine still dealing a good amount of splash), but this style is only fun for the protoss player.
Glad they nerf the mine against toss, not so glad if it means +2 defense zealots/HTs allins again.
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On February 25 2017 09:01 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2017 08:54 Lexender wrote:On February 25 2017 08:47 JackONeill wrote:On February 25 2017 08:27 blunderfulguy wrote:On February 25 2017 06:47 JackONeill wrote:On February 25 2017 06:45 Comedy wrote:
mockhamill is a diamond/low master mech user who only wants to see low apm mech playstyles buffed/better and probably still refuses to play bio. It's weird, because mech is so unfun for everyone else except the terran, but somehow this concept is diffiicult to grasp for him. Thinking your personal opinion is the truth is sad. Many people love playing mech, many people love playing against mech, and many people love to watch mech be played at the top levels. Nice try though People love playing against mech? Since when, this morning? News to me! Oh my, sarcasm ! That really must make your point very pertinent. Some people do like playing against mech, some people don't. When i played Ptak on the ladder he said he really liked playing against mech. Also "I don't like playing against this" isn't a valid point in discussing viability. I don't like playing against mutas, but that doesn't mean i'm gonna assume everybody does and say that nerfing the lib AA was a bad thing. Vibe also said he likes playing against mech much more than playing against bio. And to add to your point, they are thinking of nerfing WM wich a makes zealot/HT syles viable again, a style that was not fun to watch or play against and was only fun for the protoss player. Good point. I don't think zealots/HTs will be a thing again outside of allins or timing attacks (liberators, mine still dealing a good amount of splash), but this style is only fun for the protoss player. Glad they nerf the mine against toss, not so glad if it means +2 defense zealots/HTs allins again.
WM nerf is sound design wise, I can understand the frustation of protoss players losing huge chunks of army to WM, specially since their units aren't as mobile and nimble as zerg units, who can deal with them easily.
I do hope they give us something in return, design wise, making bio, medivacs, libs and WM is a fun style, but it gets stale, much like how both in WOL and HotS you could only go bio/medivac/viking/ghost in TvP, and everything else sucked balls.
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no reaper grenade removed ? that sh*t cost dark blizzcon championship -.-
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EPT
