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On December 10 2016 08:02 NonY wrote:
i don't understand the angle the negative comments are taking. you want more from blizzard but how are you justifying it? such disappointment that there isnt more but why do you think there would be more? i think it's a lot as it is, given the size of sc2 esports community. like what exactly is your business/economic reasoning for there being more events? i just dont understand how it seems like such a given to so many people that there ought to be more tournaments, and more korean tournaments. im surprised by how many there actually are and other people are disgusted at how few there are. can you give the broad strokes of how you figure it would work out for blizzard and these tournament hosting companies etc to support more sc2 events?
People believe pizzagate, critical thinking went down the drain apparently
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I hope there is a gsl preseason like last year but it doesn't really look like it. Otherwise this is looking better than I expected. It seems like it's a little bit worse for foreigners than this year but quite a bit better for Koreans.
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I am just happy that Blizzard still supports SC2, last of RTS, as an eSport with HotS and Overwatch around.
This system may not be satisfying for everyone but I think they will have spent a lot more time thinking than anyone in this thread about how everything needs to be laid out for everyone (players, organizers, Blizzard, fans) to get something out of it in its current state.
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It is so unfair that Korean can't participate in foreign tournament.
Blizzard's solution:delete all foreign tournament except official WCS circuit championhip.
So clever
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On December 10 2016 19:48 scvnotready wrote:
It is so unfair that Korean can't participate in foreign tournament.
Blizzard's solution:delete all foreign tournament except official WCS circuit championhip.
So clever
I think it's more organizations not wanting to run sc2 anymore than blizz "deleting" the tournaments
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On December 10 2016 20:02 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2016 19:48 scvnotready wrote:
It is so unfair that Korean can't participate in foreign tournament.
Blizzard's solution:delete all foreign tournament except official WCS circuit championhip.
So clever I think it's more organizations not wanting to run sc2 anymore than blizz "deleting" the tournaments
Most definitely.
But I think we will have a lot of cool online tournaments in 2017, so people just have to get used to less big offline tournaments for sc2.
I'm excited to see what TB has in store, besides Shoutcraft Kings.
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On December 10 2016 15:22 NR wrote:All the negativity around here is so off putting. No wonder there is no new blood in the SC community. Who would want to join when they see such an atmosphere? I for one think this is great news and more than I would have expected from Blizzard given the circumstances. Yes, the scene might shrink, but I don't believe the way it was structured was sustainable in the first place. Looking forward to the warchests, I believe that will clearly show how much this community is willing to back up e-sports. Right now it feels like the number one way in which people are involved in esports is as mere "armchair critics". All in all, I'm looking forward to an interesting 2017 of SC2. Maybe if the warchest sales go well they will fund more events. 
Noone want's to join SC2 man, every reddit or bnet post where new guys dare to ask something get silenced, downvoted or he gets a responses such "HOW DARE YOU ARE NOT TRYHARD COMPETITIVE", or "UR NOT AT LEAST DIAMOND AFTER A WEEK OF PLAYING, everything is your fault gt*o..."
This place is a not a community anymore it's a dump of few vocals who would just cry and argue about anything that Blizzard or any inciative content creator do... but, you have to realize they can't admit that something went in right direction man, for them it would be end of the world...
But yeah TL not as much, but reddit and bnet forums are not a community place but a toxic dump...
Quick edit: it makes me really sad
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On December 10 2016 20:22 PharaphobiaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2016 15:22 NR wrote:All the negativity around here is so off putting. No wonder there is no new blood in the SC community. Who would want to join when they see such an atmosphere? I for one think this is great news and more than I would have expected from Blizzard given the circumstances. Yes, the scene might shrink, but I don't believe the way it was structured was sustainable in the first place. Looking forward to the warchests, I believe that will clearly show how much this community is willing to back up e-sports. Right now it feels like the number one way in which people are involved in esports is as mere "armchair critics". All in all, I'm looking forward to an interesting 2017 of SC2. Maybe if the warchest sales go well they will fund more events. Noone want's to join SC2 man, every reddit or bnet post where new guys dare to ask something get silenced, downvoted or he gets a responses such "HOW DARE YOU ARE NOT TRYHARD COMPETITIVE", or "UR NOT AT LEAST DIAMOND AFTER A WEEK OF PLAYING, everything is your fault gt*o..." This place is a not a community anymore it's a dump of few vocals who would just cry and argue about anything that Blizzard or any inciative content creator do... but, you have to realize they can't admit that something went in right direction man, for them it would be end of the world... But yeah TL not as much, but reddit and bnet forums are not a community place but a toxic dump... Quick edit: it makes me really sad
I don't agree at all with what you said about Reddit.
I see posts from new players asking for help on reddit almost daily and the veterans are always incredibly helpful. They keep giving advice, linking to guides and are even offering to play with them/coach them.
Edit: Just check out this thread from yesterday or the WCS thread and tell me how it's a toxic dump please.
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Only 3 GSLs. we need something else to compensate
Edit: 6 major Korean events. This is nice.
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On December 10 2016 18:51 mrarthursimon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2016 18:26 Diabolique wrote:
I looked first at the announcement and thought: "Damned, region lock still in place, Korean ban from international competitions again, this is really bad, Blizzard did not learn anything and is continuing to destroy the Korean scene."
Well, I did not like the WCS 2016 system and am still strongly against what has been done against the most mid tier Koreans ... I liked quite a much the WCS 2015 system, where you had all the GSLs, SSLs, then you had the four seasons (four?) of "WCS Welfare" for foreigners only, which was perfectly fine, as I support the idea that some tournaments should give the foreigners the possibility to win reasonable money without the Koreans. And then you had all the great international tournaments, IEMs and DHs, many great events, where both the Koreans and foreigners could compete.
Then, I looked at the WCS 2017 again and realized something: Hey, the WCS 2017 is much more similar to WCS 2015 than to WCS 2016! There is only one exception - the international tournaments are gone (except Katowice). There are ONLY the four seasons of WCS Welfare in 2017 and this number is the same as in WCS 2015. Plus some regional challengers! So it is not the "active support" for tournament organisers to ban Koreans, in which case they receive a massive contribution. And a penalty to any tournament organisers, who would like to organize a global event (it would have to be a 50k tournament). Am I correct or did I read something wrong and these damaging incentives are still in place?
So the real message of the announcement should be - "SC2 is declining, we have less tournaments, but we still keep (pay) four (only four) events locked for foreigners. In Korea we cooperate with Afreeca to support three GSLs per year and a few new Korean small events. Plus Katowice is a global event (which is great!)."
So when comparing WCS 2016 and WCS 2017, the second seems to me to be better, with less events from which the Koreans are banned and no active incentives for eventual third party organizers to ban them from their events. Firstly, there is no such thing as region lock since 2015. In 2016 and 2017 you can complete anywhere you want to, all you gotta do is go FUCKING BE A PART OF THE COMMUNITY YOU WANT TO PLAY IN. If you want to play in EU GO GET A VISA, go live there, go play on the ladder there, and you can play in any circuit tournament through regional qualifiers. Same with NA. Same with every other non-Korean region. .
Please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know there was (and still is, no?) a difference between the WCS ruleset and GSL ruleset.
To participate in WCS EU as in your example you have to get visa, go live there, go play ladder, play enough games on the ladder and then and only then you can take a chance in qualifiers.
To participate in GSL you only had to go to the venue where qualifiers were taking place. Just that. No Visa, playing on ladder etc.
GSL (Global Star League) was a global league where anybody could participate as long as you were good enough. Thing is that good enough meant that almost no foreigner (there were some great exceptions ofc) were interested in paying a lot of money for a flight to only get destroyed in qualifiers.
However the opposite was true - Koreans did paid a lot of money to travel to foreign event as MLG, DH, IEM etc. because they knew they are good enough to win enough to cover journey expenses.
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It seems like 2017 WCS is in fact a bit better than 2016 WCS and when taking recent events into consideration probably better than expected which is good news. Great news are that there will be not only WCS 2017 but also 2018 which means at least 2 years of blizzard support for SC2 which I am thankful for
However it is hard to be delighted by perspectives for future when the same time we know there is not gonna be ProLeague (my favourite tournament), SSL and korean teams anymore.
So in short it seems like:
2017 WCS > 2016 WCS
SC2 in general 2017 < 2016
Well I guess that "you have to be happy with what you have to be happy with" 
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Support Take TV Tournaments plz!
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On December 10 2016 21:20 egrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2016 18:51 mrarthursimon wrote:On December 10 2016 18:26 Diabolique wrote:
I looked first at the announcement and thought: "Damned, region lock still in place, Korean ban from international competitions again, this is really bad, Blizzard did not learn anything and is continuing to destroy the Korean scene."
Well, I did not like the WCS 2016 system and am still strongly against what has been done against the most mid tier Koreans ... I liked quite a much the WCS 2015 system, where you had all the GSLs, SSLs, then you had the four seasons (four?) of "WCS Welfare" for foreigners only, which was perfectly fine, as I support the idea that some tournaments should give the foreigners the possibility to win reasonable money without the Koreans. And then you had all the great international tournaments, IEMs and DHs, many great events, where both the Koreans and foreigners could compete.
Then, I looked at the WCS 2017 again and realized something: Hey, the WCS 2017 is much more similar to WCS 2015 than to WCS 2016! There is only one exception - the international tournaments are gone (except Katowice). There are ONLY the four seasons of WCS Welfare in 2017 and this number is the same as in WCS 2015. Plus some regional challengers! So it is not the "active support" for tournament organisers to ban Koreans, in which case they receive a massive contribution. And a penalty to any tournament organisers, who would like to organize a global event (it would have to be a 50k tournament). Am I correct or did I read something wrong and these damaging incentives are still in place?
So the real message of the announcement should be - "SC2 is declining, we have less tournaments, but we still keep (pay) four (only four) events locked for foreigners. In Korea we cooperate with Afreeca to support three GSLs per year and a few new Korean small events. Plus Katowice is a global event (which is great!)."
So when comparing WCS 2016 and WCS 2017, the second seems to me to be better, with less events from which the Koreans are banned and no active incentives for eventual third party organizers to ban them from their events. Firstly, there is no such thing as region lock since 2015. In 2016 and 2017 you can complete anywhere you want to, all you gotta do is go FUCKING BE A PART OF THE COMMUNITY YOU WANT TO PLAY IN. If you want to play in EU GO GET A VISA, go live there, go play on the ladder there, and you can play in any circuit tournament through regional qualifiers. Same with NA. Same with every other non-Korean region. . Please correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know there was (and still is, no?) a difference between the WCS ruleset and GSL ruleset. To participate in WCS EU as in your example you have to get visa, go live there, go play ladder, play enough games on the ladder and then and only then you can take a chance in qualifiers. To participate in GSL you only had to go to the venue where qualifiers were taking place. Just that. No Visa, playing on ladder etc. GSL (Global Star League) was a global league where anybody could participate as long as you were good enough. Thing is that good enough meant that almost no foreigner (there were some great exceptions ofc) were interested in paying a lot of money for a flight to only get destroyed in qualifiers. However the opposite was true - Koreans did paid a lot of money to travel to foreign event as MLG, DH, IEM etc. because they knew they are good enough to win enough to cover journey expenses.
For WCS 2013 and 2014 you didn't need to have a residency visa or even live in the region you were competing in since the qualifiers and the Ro32 were online. Only the Ro16 and playoffs were offline, and they probably had paid travel and accommodations. So Koreans playing in WCS NA or EU theoretically only had to be in the country for 2 weeks. This hurt the NA scene more than the EU scene because more Koreans played in WCS NA because the ping was lower. Tournaments like IPL and MLG were also willing to pay for Koreans to be flown in to boost viewership.
In contrast, GSL offered no support for foreigners trying to compete after the GomTV house closed. While it existed players like Jinro, Naniwa, and Idra played in GSL and got to the Ro8/Ro4. Since then, the only players who have attempted the qualifiers have been ones that are living in Korea long-term like Scarlett and State. Players have to get a place to live long-term since the tournament is over the course of several months instead of 2 weeks.
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I just don't understand why still a region lock. There are plenty of reasons not to have it anymore and it clearly hurts the Korean scene. I think that's where a lot of the disappointment comes from.
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On December 11 2016 02:41 zealotstim wrote:
I just don't understand why still a region lock. There are plenty of reasons not to have it anymore and it clearly hurts the Korean scene. I think that's where a lot of the disappointment comes from.
Because without it the foreign scene gets hurt.
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Lets be real, for the few people that is interesed in Korea in SC2, Blizzard put a lot of money in tournaments for the next year, you can blame Blizzard for the design of the game, the WCS region lock, but not for not wasting a big amount of money in the Korean SC2 scene.
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South Korea2105 Posts
On December 11 2016 02:41 zealotstim wrote:
I just don't understand why still a region lock. There are plenty of reasons not to have it anymore and it clearly hurts the Korean scene. I think that's where a lot of the disappointment comes from.
Because foreign competitors generate more revenue
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On December 10 2016 20:05 Musicus wrote:
I'm excited to see what TB has in store, besides Shoutcraft Kings.
as much as Blizzard has fumbled things with competitive SC2 their decision to keep giving TB moar resources to create bigger competitions has been a good one.
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On December 11 2016 02:50 palexhur wrote:
Lets be real, for the few people that is interesed in Korea in SC2, Blizzard put a lot of money in tournaments for the next year, you can blame Blizzard for the design of the game, the WCS region lock, but not for not wasting a big amount of money in the Korean SC2 scene.
My theory:
Nah, they cater to people like me who dont care about foreigners and personalities at all. People who subscribed to every GSL event since like 2011 and paid for watching SPL. (i really would like to know how many stopped spending money after the WCS 2016 system).
I just dont get it why they dont just kill korea sc2. The hardcore skill fans should be decimated after the SPL team implosion. All 3 parts are released and i bet people spend still money on mission packs and dlcs withouth korea.
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I've been gone for a while (grad school), but am excited to grab LOTV and start watching/playing in the coming year... this is excellent news
P.S. TL has so many little, shiny changes!
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EPT
