EPTSorry to my European TLers, but I am balls happy with the weekend GSL schedule.
WCS 2017 Announced - Page 13
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
Sorry to my European TLers, but I am balls happy with the weekend GSL schedule. | ||
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NR
Romania109 Posts
I for one think this is great news and more than I would have expected from Blizzard given the circumstances. Yes, the scene might shrink, but I don't believe the way it was structured was sustainable in the first place. Looking forward to the warchests, I believe that will clearly show how much this community is willing to back up e-sports. Right now it feels like the number one way in which people are involved in esports is as mere "armchair critics". All in all, I'm looking forward to an interesting 2017 of SC2. Maybe if the warchest sales go well they will fund more events.  | ||
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WidowMineHero
New Zealand143 Posts
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
On December 10 2016 14:12 iamho wrote: This is really great news and I'm glad Blizzard and Afreeca will keep GSL running, SC2 wouldn't be the same without the top Korean talent. Without teams the top korean talent will be weaker then ever. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On December 10 2016 15:49 WidowMineHero wrote: what about ssl? Gone. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On December 10 2016 16:48 Charoisaur wrote: I wonder what happens to Wolf and Valdes now with SSL and Proleague gone. I really love their casts, would be a shame if they had to leave the scene after all they've done for it. Wolf does Heroes and World of Tanks anyway, he's fine Valdes....not so much. I guess he could go back to LoL with RapiD Or maybe they'll both end up casting the OW Proleague  | ||
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maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On December 10 2016 08:02 NonY wrote: i don't understand the angle the negative comments are taking. you want more from blizzard but how are you justifying it? such disappointment that there isnt more but why do you think there would be more? i think it's a lot as it is, given the size of sc2 esports community. like what exactly is your business/economic reasoning for there being more events? i just dont understand how it seems like such a given to so many people that there ought to be more tournaments, and more korean tournaments. im surprised by how many there actually are and other people are disgusted at how few there are. can you give the broad strokes of how you figure it would work out for blizzard and these tournament hosting companies etc to support more sc2 events? I think what many people want is the removal of all measures that restrict participation of Korean players in WCS tournaments outside of South Korea. I think that people who call the current WCS system a charity league for foreigners have a point. I even recall an interview with someone who claimed that the lack of competition made him a better player. The result: five out of the top-8 slots at the WCS global finals went to ... Koreans. Top 4: 3 out of 4 players were Koreans. The only result of soft banning Koreans from participating in WCS tournaments outside of South Korea is that the foreigners earned more cash. It did nothing to increase the overal skill level of foreign players of Stacraft 2. Quite on the contrary, why would they bother making the effort to go train with the best in South Korea when they can just stay in their safe spaces where Blizzard makes sure the competition isn't too stiff? I still remember the first two or three years of Starcraft 2: you and several other foreigners moving to Korea to be able to train with and compete against the best of the best. I still fondly remember TSL season 2, where the underdog Thorzain worked himself into the finals, defeating many top Koreans along the way. He faced none other than MC in the finals, and somehow, some way came out on top. Thorzain then went on to compete in the GSL. Then there was Stephano's meteoric rise to Starcraft 2 fame. Don't get me wrong, I love starcraft 2, even though I don't play anymore and I don't watch as much content as I used to. However, I also no longer get out of it as much as I did a few years ago. Apart from foreigner vs foreigners games not being nearly as good and cutthroat as Korean vs Korean games, there's a lack of interesting story lines, like the ones I mentioned in the previous paragraph. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3423 Posts
Also, HOW exactly will the battle chest support WCS? What amount of profits will go towards it? Without details I couldn't care less about it. All in all, pretty great news | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
The change in GSL viewing times is weird. For all WCS tournaments, they should just broadcast at the usual time and rebroadcast at primetime for the 2 other regions (e.g. NA, EU primetime for KR events, NA, KR/SEA primetime for EU events, etc.)? | ||
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Kaewins
Bulgaria138 Posts
Now is the time to see who really cares about the game and who was only here to cash in while it was the king of esports. The thing is, in my opinion Blizzard right now are placing their bets on Heroes of the Storm, but I think we can all see they are mistaken, as even a diminished SC2 is more popular. SC2 still has potential to gain high viewership, it just needs the people who are truly passionate and care about the game to not give up. Because at the end of the day, it's still the most exciting game to watch at high level. | ||
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Dumbledore
Sweden725 Posts
2018 and 2017??? | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On December 10 2016 17:35 maartendq wrote: I think what many people want is the removal of all measures that restrict participation of Korean players in WCS tournaments outside of South Korea. I think that people who call the current WCS system a charity league for foreigners have a point. I even recall an interview with someone who claimed that the lack of competition made him a better player. The result: five out of the top-8 slots at the WCS global finals went to ... Koreans. Top 4: 3 out of 4 players were Koreans. The only result of soft banning Koreans from participating in WCS tournaments outside of South Korea is that the foreigners earned more cash. It did nothing to increase the overal skill level of foreign players of Stacraft 2. Quite on the contrary, why would they bother making the effort to go train with the best in South Korea when they can just stay in their safe spaces where Blizzard makes sure the competition isn't too stiff? I still remember the first two or three years of Starcraft 2: you and several other foreigners moving to Korea to be able to train with and compete against the best of the best. I still fondly remember TSL season 2, where the underdog Thorzain worked himself into the finals, defeating many top Koreans along the way. He faced none other than MC in the finals, and somehow, some way came out on top. Thorzain then went on to compete in the GSL. Then there was Stephano's meteoric rise to Starcraft 2 fame. Don't get me wrong, I love starcraft 2, even though I don't play anymore and I don't watch as much content as I used to. However, I also no longer get out of it as much as I did a few years ago. Apart from foreigner vs foreigners games not being nearly as good and cutthroat as Korean vs Korean games, there's a lack of interesting story lines, like the ones I mentioned in the previous paragraph. You know what I happen to remember though? At Blizzcon, 3 of the top 8 were foreigners. Sure they got destroyed in that round or the ro4. But if they didn't really improve, then you would expect all the foreigners to get third or fourth or at the very most get second if they made it through. Showtime beat Byun and Dear to make it through, Elazer beat Solar, Nerchio beat Solar, and Neeb beat Patience twice. In no way do I think that you can say the foreigners didn't improve. Did they close the gap? No, but they certainly made it smaller. | ||
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lestye
United States4163 Posts
On December 10 2016 17:41 True_Spike wrote: It's good they release everything upfront. Still a great time to be a pro outside Korea, at least. Also, HOW exactly will the battle chest support WCS? What amount of profits will go towards it? Without details I couldn't care less about it. All in all, pretty great news That's a good question. It doesn't say if it goes directly to prizepool, is it to recoup costs of current events or help fund more events. | ||
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Diabolique
Czech Republic5118 Posts
Well, I did not like the WCS 2016 system and am still strongly against what has been done against the most mid tier Koreans ... I liked quite a much the WCS 2015 system, where you had all the GSLs, SSLs, then you had the four seasons (four?) of "WCS Welfare" for foreigners only, which was perfectly fine, as I support the idea that some tournaments should give the foreigners the possibility to win reasonable money without the Koreans. And then you had all the great international tournaments, IEMs and DHs, many great events, where both the Koreans and foreigners could compete. Then, I looked at the WCS 2017 again and realized something: Hey, the WCS 2017 is much more similar to WCS 2015 than to WCS 2016! There is only one exception - the international tournaments are gone (except Katowice). There are ONLY the four seasons of WCS Welfare in 2017 and this number is the same as in WCS 2015. Plus some regional challengers! So it is not the "active support" for tournament organisers to ban Koreans, in which case they receive a massive contribution. And a penalty to any tournament organisers, who would like to organize a global event (it would have to be a 50k tournament). Am I correct or did I read something wrong and these damaging incentives are still in place? So the real message of the announcement should be - "SC2 is declining, we have less tournaments, but we still keep (pay) four (only four) events locked for foreigners. In Korea we cooperate with Afreeca to support three GSLs per year and a few new Korean small events. Plus Katowice is a global event (which is great!)." So when comparing WCS 2016 and WCS 2017, the second seems to me to be better, with less events from which the Koreans are banned and no active incentives for eventual third party organizers to ban them from their events. | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On December 10 2016 18:15 Dumbledore wrote: "We intend to retain the same format for WCS 2018 as in 2017. While the exact events and timings for 2018 are up in the air, we are committed to supporting this structure and prizing over the next two years for WCS Korea and the WCS Circuit." 2018 and 2017??? WCS = SC2 Advertising Budget. For as much as those of us on the "ground" like to watch eSports, it's always too common to forget that eSports is supported by the developers because it's the most cost-effective advertising you can find, short of a major World Leader hyping your game up at random. (Sadly, this is also why Blizzard caused the downfall of "professional" SC:BW.) So carrying on with a further 2 years makes sense. There has clearly been internal struggles inside Blizzard on the time/money/effort levels, as there always is with any "legacy" product, but the side that can frame this as a good marketing expenditure has won out for now. To our, as viewers, benefit. | ||
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ilililililililiii
United States93 Posts
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mrarthursimon
United States55 Posts
On December 10 2016 18:26 Diabolique wrote: I looked first at the announcement and thought: "Damned, region lock still in place, Korean ban from international competitions again, this is really bad, Blizzard did not learn anything and is continuing to destroy the Korean scene." Well, I did not like the WCS 2016 system and am still strongly against what has been done against the most mid tier Koreans ... I liked quite a much the WCS 2015 system, where you had all the GSLs, SSLs, then you had the four seasons (four?) of "WCS Welfare" for foreigners only, which was perfectly fine, as I support the idea that some tournaments should give the foreigners the possibility to win reasonable money without the Koreans. And then you had all the great international tournaments, IEMs and DHs, many great events, where both the Koreans and foreigners could compete. Then, I looked at the WCS 2017 again and realized something: Hey, the WCS 2017 is much more similar to WCS 2015 than to WCS 2016! There is only one exception - the international tournaments are gone (except Katowice). There are ONLY the four seasons of WCS Welfare in 2017 and this number is the same as in WCS 2015. Plus some regional challengers! So it is not the "active support" for tournament organisers to ban Koreans, in which case they receive a massive contribution. And a penalty to any tournament organisers, who would like to organize a global event (it would have to be a 50k tournament). Am I correct or did I read something wrong and these damaging incentives are still in place? So the real message of the announcement should be - "SC2 is declining, we have less tournaments, but we still keep (pay) four (only four) events locked for foreigners. In Korea we cooperate with Afreeca to support three GSLs per year and a few new Korean small events. Plus Katowice is a global event (which is great!)." So when comparing WCS 2016 and WCS 2017, the second seems to me to be better, with less events from which the Koreans are banned and no active incentives for eventual third party organizers to ban them from their events. I've been trying my damndest to be civil. I want to respect your opinion but the blatant way that you speak about "Foreigner welfare" is ridiculous. Firstly, there is no such thing as region lock since 2015. In 2016 and 2017 you can complete anywhere you want to, all you gotta do is go FUCKING BE A PART OF THE COMMUNITY YOU WANT TO PLAY IN. If you want to play in EU GO GET A VISA, go live there, go play on the ladder there, and you can play in any circuit tournament through regional qualifiers. Same with NA. Same with every other non-Korean region. For years, YEARS, people on TL have exclaimed that "foreigners need to move to Korea to improve", expecting individuals to front the cost to go live in Korea on their own because it's the only way for them to get better. Well now there is no Korean SC2 wellfare. That's right. All of Korean SC2 was WELLFARE FOR KOREANS. They created a system, with the largest corporations in the country all being in on it with the Korean government (Kespa was a federal government organization, or do we all forget that?) to incentivize those that had the capitol to invest in a large infrastructure system and to disenfranchise all grassroots events. If you wanted to make money as a Korean SC player, join a team, work your way through practice partner and through the team house rankings and maybe one day you'll be able to. Well now that system is gone. And it's time those mid-tier Koreans that everyone is always so worried about to show some initiative, like everyone keeps telling foreigners, and if they want to continue to be lucrative inside of Starcraft, they need to leave Korea, find a foreign team that wants to pick them up, (Because as so many dissenting voices want to keep pointing out in this thread even a mid-tier Korean is miles better than every foreigner), go live in the region they want to be a part of and be profitable in, and get to work. Polt did it. True did it. Violet did it. It's possible to be done. It may be difficult, but you know what, so is what Artosis and Tasteless did, so is what Nony did, so is what every foreigner that has been told "Move to Korea to get better at Starcraft" so they did it. Now, if Koreans want to get paid to play Starcraft, they need to get out of Korea. Kespa, not Blizzard Korea or Activision-Blizzard, have made it painfully obvious that they give no shits about SC2. With an arm of the Federal government actively against creating more opportunities for Starcraft in the country what would Blizzard do? They can't do much. It's not on them to do it all anyway. It makes me so sick to see all of the negativity instead of constructive brainstorming. How about this instead, let's try and think of ideas of incentives that we, as the community, can offer to foreign teams and to mid-tier Korean players to get them out of Korea, where they have no chance to compete against the titans that will be in the GSL every season. Maybe we, as the community, can get together and get a "Move mid-tier koreans" fund together to help pay for visa fees and travel costs with moving players from Korea to another region to participate in the WCS Circuit. Maybe we can petition Blizzard for them to offer incentives to Foreign teams for acquiring mid-tier Korean players and helping them get their visas by paying their travel costs, not only to get moved but also to events they decide to go to, to help smaller esport organizations pick up bigger players, and let them focus all of their capitol on player salary and acquiring more sponsors. We need to think of ways to grow the scene. You don't grow the scene by constantly talking about foreign welfare. Why would anyone want to pick up this game, as a non-korean, if they begin to become successful and the community just brushes them off, because "Oh it's just foreigner welfare, all the hard work that you did doesn't count for fucking anything because of how I feel about the way that Blizzard decided to organize something that neither you nor I had any power over" SC2 isn't dying. The community is. Good riddance. | ||
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