EPTI don't know, I see many players going for liberator harass, because you can re-utilize the liberators in the following push and in your standard composition, while for the banshee is more difficult (not sure since I don't play terran)
Community Feedback Update - 8/26 - Page 7
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VHbb
692 Posts
I don't know, I see many players going for liberator harass, because you can re-utilize the liberators in the following push and in your standard composition, while for the banshee is more difficult (not sure since I don't play terran) | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On August 30 2016 00:17 VHbb wrote: Maybe the harass role of the banshee now is a bit shadowed by the liberator ? I don't know, I see many players going for liberator harass, because you can re-utilize the liberators in the following push and in your standard composition, while for the banshee is more difficult (not sure since I don't play terran) Also liberator harass strains your opponent's multitasking much more than your own, unlike banshees, and it can be reactored/made without add-ons (in case you get all-in'd) and fight air units. It's just all around better. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
deep tunneling wasn't all that great anyways, I prefer being able to cast while burrowed but it sure is odd seeing the burrow model for those infestors and the fact that they can block units makes it pretty obvious they are there. | ||
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VHbb
692 Posts
This way if you decide to cancel the shade you won't have the opportunity to re-shade again shortly and you are somehow committing to the current move (it may mean that you won't be able to escape from the enemy base, of that you will retard the next shading enough so that the opponent can prepare more defense). | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
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VHbb
692 Posts
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Coffeeling
Finland250 Posts
Adept We are seeing feedback of trying out a change where the vision radius is reduced on the Adept shades. Unless there is strong disagreement about this change, we’ll start testing on this as well. The fundamental problem with Adepts, as with many other Protoss abilities, is noncommitment. Vision radius does zilch to fix it. The basic problem is you can have an army in one base, fighting, and threaten that same army in a different place without any need to make good on that threat. An army that's ace at slaughtering workers at that. An army that can start that fight in one place by deciding that they are in your base now, and get out all the same. The unit is fundamentally, completely anti-commitment as it stands. A proper fix to the Adept means shelving the shitfest that is Shade completely or to do something to make it a commitment - making it uncancelable and/or blockable with units would probably be my favourites after removing the POS completely in the first place and giving them something more interesting to do, something that plays with the basic mechanisms of the game: Movement, threat of force, the way all basic combat units do it: Bio, Lings, Blings, Roaches, Stalkers, Ravagers, Tanks, Hellions, you name it. Normal, but interesting movement, and a threat of force that needs the unit to be there to present it. These are fundamental tenets of interesting engagements, and Protoss as a faction shits all over them in a myriad of ways already. We need less, not more. | ||
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Coffeeling
Finland250 Posts
I loathe the boost on Medivacs, it is the most problematic unit in the game and has been for a very long time, if you ask me. Not in terms of pure balancing, but in terms of design. Ability to proxy most of your production to any random farm Ability to proxy most of your production to a dropship Ability to whip up indestructible unpathable obstacles on a whim to the point you dictate engagements A button to turn random farms into übercannons übercannon maker is also a quickly online flier to make long-term contains by Z untenable early A button to threaten an army in a different place with no need to make good on the threat A button to zap an army out of a deeply committed position while continuing to fight A button to zap an army out of a deeply committed position Medivac boost may be too strong, but as far as egregious game design goes, a temporary speed boost doesn't hold a candle to Protoss. The faction isn't just a bit too good at moving around - it directly breaks a ridiculous number of the basic dynamics of logistics and engagements with special abilities that are often unilateral decisions by the Protoss player. | ||
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VHbb
692 Posts
Yes P has very different mechanics, but they characterize the race wrt T and Z.. you cannot compare too much how the difference races works since the production mechanisms are deeply different. A protoss cannot really macro his production while fighting because you have to go back to a pylon / energy field and warp in units, while as T and Z you do everything with hotkeys and keyboard (this is just *one* example).. It's true that P can easily disengage in many situations, but it's also true that when you loose an engagement as T or Z, often you have a second army at home composed of units you produced during the engagement. If a P looses all its army it's generally game over.. | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
On August 31 2016 02:57 VHbb wrote: The whining and complaining about protoss is really strong.. honestly I can't remember the last ladder game when I won and someone said gg to me, it's always some variation of "protoss lol" "easy race" , etc. Yes P has very different mechanics, but they characterize the race wrt T and Z.. you cannot compare too much how the difference races works since the production mechanisms are deeply different. A protoss cannot really macro his production while fighting because you have to go back to a pylon / energy field and warp in units, while as T and Z you do everything with hotkeys and keyboard (this is just *one* example).. It's true that P can easily disengage in many situations, but it's also true that when you loose an engagement as T or Z, often you have a second army at home composed of units you produced during the engagement. If a P looses all its army it's generally game over.. This sounds just like Terran Mech, minus the ability to disengage... | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
On August 31 2016 02:46 Coffeeling wrote: Ability to proxy most of your production to any random farm Ability to proxy most of your production to a dropship Ability to whip up indestructible unpathable obstacles on a whim to the point you dictate engagements A button to turn random farms into übercannons übercannon maker is also a quickly online flier to make long-term contains by Z untenable early A button to threaten an army in a different place with no need to make good on the threat A button to zap an army out of a deeply committed position while continuing to fight A button to zap an army out of a deeply committed position Medivac boost may be too strong, but as far as egregious game design goes, a temporary speed boost doesn't hold a candle to Protoss. The faction isn't just a bit too good at moving around - it directly breaks a ridiculous number of the basic dynamics of logistics and engagements with special abilities that are often unilateral decisions by the Protoss player. Medivac Boost is the sole reason why Blink Stalkers and Mutalisks became mandatory in the HotS PvT and ZvT metagames. With any other style, you'd be overwhelmed by the mobility of bio drops. It's why every professional game became Blink Stalker Colossus or Ling Bling Muta versus MMMM, with a few exceptions (Oracle cheese, or Swarm Hosts vs Mech.) Granted, the Mothership Core was honestly far more broken back in HotS when it used to outrange Siege Tanks and effectively hold off every 1-1-1 all in. Now, it just feels like a safety crutch that falls apart once you spend your energy. | ||
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VHbb
692 Posts
On August 31 2016 03:25 Clbull wrote: This sounds just like Terran Mech, minus the ability to disengage... Mech units are much more powerful one by one than gateway units, especially in this new patch, which I would say balance for the difficulty to replenish you army and to move around / disengage (just my thoughts , I may well be off track  ) | ||
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
Also, the Shade ability completely breaks the concept of using Siege Tanks to hold a defensive position, since you can just project your Adepts right on top of the tank and negate any kind of advantage your opponent would have achieved. Infestors would be good with burrowed casting alone - at least for Neural Parasite, which means that it might finally be used once again. As for Banshee Speed, I'd prefer things the way they were. Banshees are fine in the meta. Giving them increased speed just makes them absurdly hard to catch out. | ||
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