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On July 01 2016 04:40 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2016 04:33 sweffymo wrote:On July 01 2016 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Damn I saw Apollos announcement of an announcement last night and thought for sure we were finally getting a Global Event. This is really disappointing. A match that was going to happen anyway is just taking place at IEM, but they still won't be allowed to play in the actual tournament. And then he posted on Reddit saying something to the effect of "How DARE you be disappointed by our worthless announcement? You must not appreciate us or the work we do at all." Now, now, let's be precise. Show nested quote +Apollo:
you (as a whole) really have to start being more grateful for the work that is being done for sc2. A lot of people are working very hard for the community. That said, it's not like I expected something else but comments like this don't really help the situation and they only provoked some really angry replies. (I have to say there were some really constructive ones as well, but they will probably get buried and unnoticed) As for the comment itself, it bothers me because I always try to appreciate people who work for the scene but current system just doesn't feel right. And suddenly moving finals of Korean event to another country doesn't feel right either. They could announce it earlier at the very least, for people who wanted to see it live.
I agree. Honestly it just seems like a dick move to fly players out to an event that any one of them would have a chance of winning and then make them watch. I hope that it's cool for the Chinese crowd though. They're the real winners here. 
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On July 01 2016 04:40 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2016 04:33 sweffymo wrote:On July 01 2016 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Damn I saw Apollos announcement of an announcement last night and thought for sure we were finally getting a Global Event. This is really disappointing. A match that was going to happen anyway is just taking place at IEM, but they still won't be allowed to play in the actual tournament. And then he posted on Reddit saying something to the effect of "How DARE you be disappointed by our worthless announcement? You must not appreciate us or the work we do at all." Now, now, let's be precise. Show nested quote +Apollo:
you (as a whole) really have to start being more grateful for the work that is being done for sc2. A lot of people are working very hard for the community.
I mean come on, in this particular instance, what is there to be grateful about? It's not like this means we are getting more content. Just that the content we would have gotten anyway will be presented slightly differently.
I mean maybe this helps spread awareness about Proleague and increase long-term viewership and thus benefit us in the long run, but since the season is already nearly over by the time this happens, I wouldn't count on it. Short-term there aren't that many fans who benefit from this I think.
Although I generally don't pay as much attention to what Apollo says anymore ever since he claimed that "The Korean scene is healthy as fuck" right after the plans for WCS 2016 were announced (you know, where they cut an entire season of competition) and when KeSPA was still working on getting Proleague together.
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On July 01 2016 04:46 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2016 04:40 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:On July 01 2016 04:33 sweffymo wrote:On July 01 2016 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Damn I saw Apollos announcement of an announcement last night and thought for sure we were finally getting a Global Event. This is really disappointing. A match that was going to happen anyway is just taking place at IEM, but they still won't be allowed to play in the actual tournament. And then he posted on Reddit saying something to the effect of "How DARE you be disappointed by our worthless announcement? You must not appreciate us or the work we do at all." Now, now, let's be precise. Apollo:
you (as a whole) really have to start being more grateful for the work that is being done for sc2. A lot of people are working very hard for the community. I mean come on, in this particular instance, what is there to be grateful about? It's not like this means we are getting more content. Just that the content we would have gotten anyway will be presented slightly differently. I mean maybe this helps spread awareness about Proleague and increase long-term viewership and thus benefit us in the long run, but since the season is already nearly over by the time this happens, I wouldn't count on it. Short-term there aren't that many fans who benefit from this I think. Although I generally don't pay as much attention to what Apollo says anymore ever since he claimed that "The Korean scene is healthy as fuck" right after the plans for WCS 2016 were announced (you know, where they cut an entire season of competition).
Idealistic part of me says that this is great for this reason - Korean fans will watch WCS and WCS fans will watch Proleague! But my reality feel says that community seems divided enough (or watching both anyway) that it doesn't matter all that much. But well, we'll see.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On July 01 2016 04:54 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2016 04:46 Elentos wrote:On July 01 2016 04:40 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:On July 01 2016 04:33 sweffymo wrote:On July 01 2016 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Damn I saw Apollos announcement of an announcement last night and thought for sure we were finally getting a Global Event. This is really disappointing. A match that was going to happen anyway is just taking place at IEM, but they still won't be allowed to play in the actual tournament. And then he posted on Reddit saying something to the effect of "How DARE you be disappointed by our worthless announcement? You must not appreciate us or the work we do at all." Now, now, let's be precise. Apollo:
you (as a whole) really have to start being more grateful for the work that is being done for sc2. A lot of people are working very hard for the community. I mean come on, in this particular instance, what is there to be grateful about? It's not like this means we are getting more content. Just that the content we would have gotten anyway will be presented slightly differently. I mean maybe this helps spread awareness about Proleague and increase long-term viewership and thus benefit us in the long run, but since the season is already nearly over by the time this happens, I wouldn't count on it. Short-term there aren't that many fans who benefit from this I think. Although I generally don't pay as much attention to what Apollo says anymore ever since he claimed that "The Korean scene is healthy as fuck" right after the plans for WCS 2016 were announced (you know, where they cut an entire season of competition). Idealistic part of me says that this is great for this reason - Korean fans will watch WCS and WCS fans will watch Proleague! But my reality feel says that community seems divided enough (or watching both anyway) that it doesn't matter all that much. But well, we'll see.
The idealism is great and all, but the round 3 finals is one of the very last days of Proleague this year. If this was the round 1 finals it'd be amazing. With this it's kinda late to go fishing for a consistently bigger audience.
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While I still think will be cool, especially if there is a big audience and they get into it, I'm rapidly losing faith in any IEM global events actually happening. Which makes me sad as IEM was always my favorite tourneys to watch Snute and Co fight the Koreans.
Hopefully it'll be KT vs Jin air for the best possible games.
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On July 01 2016 04:56 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2016 04:54 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:On July 01 2016 04:46 Elentos wrote:On July 01 2016 04:40 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:On July 01 2016 04:33 sweffymo wrote:On July 01 2016 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Damn I saw Apollos announcement of an announcement last night and thought for sure we were finally getting a Global Event. This is really disappointing. A match that was going to happen anyway is just taking place at IEM, but they still won't be allowed to play in the actual tournament. And then he posted on Reddit saying something to the effect of "How DARE you be disappointed by our worthless announcement? You must not appreciate us or the work we do at all." Now, now, let's be precise. Apollo:
you (as a whole) really have to start being more grateful for the work that is being done for sc2. A lot of people are working very hard for the community. I mean come on, in this particular instance, what is there to be grateful about? It's not like this means we are getting more content. Just that the content we would have gotten anyway will be presented slightly differently. I mean maybe this helps spread awareness about Proleague and increase long-term viewership and thus benefit us in the long run, but since the season is already nearly over by the time this happens, I wouldn't count on it. Short-term there aren't that many fans who benefit from this I think. Although I generally don't pay as much attention to what Apollo says anymore ever since he claimed that "The Korean scene is healthy as fuck" right after the plans for WCS 2016 were announced (you know, where they cut an entire season of competition). Idealistic part of me says that this is great for this reason - Korean fans will watch WCS and WCS fans will watch Proleague! But my reality feel says that community seems divided enough (or watching both anyway) that it doesn't matter all that much. But well, we'll see. The idealism is great and all, but the round 3 finals is one of the very last days of Proleague this year. If this was the round 1 finals it'd be amazing. With this it's kinda late to go fishing for a consistently bigger audience.
No. Having season 3 finals and then immediately after it the Grand finals takes away the uniqueness ... having the "small finals" in some other country and after it the big event at home, seems to be quite good.
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Its cool that kespa is doing stuff to reach out to the Chinese audience.
I hope this isn't the "Global Event" that Kim Phan says Blizz has been "Working on" because this really isn't one.
I think its safe to believe that the whole WCS global thing is a sham tbh
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Well, I'm rather neutral on this. Bad for the Korean audience, but hopefully it can create more fans in China.
In the end I don't mind if KT wins the finals in China or Korea.
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Cool stuff and congratz for everyone involved. Bringing the best starcraft outside of korea is one of the best thing you can do for the scene atm.
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Its nice and all and I appreciate the work put in it by everyone involved. Cant help but feel a tad disappointed though. Was hoping for a Global Event announcement.
I guess it is fair to assume the first global even this year will be Blizzcon itself. Doubt we are getting anything now.
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Do you know, what would be great? To let them play some rounds of Proleague in other countries ... one season of Proleague circus in Europe ...
They would all fly to Europe for the two months, rent a huge bus, for all the teams and support stuff and go in it each week to another country, live there in hotel, and play the one round there. Next week they would travel with the bus to another country, stay there and play another round ...
That would be something much better to raise fan support for SC2 than banning Koreans from tournaments!
By the way: if there is not a single global event before BlizzCon, could the smart person, who designed and approved the system, where any organizer of a global event must have a prize pool of at least 50k, by which they actually cancelled the interest of any such organizer ... could that person be fired, please?
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HOLY SHIT YES!!!!!!!! I'M GONNA BE BACK IN SHANGHAI BY JULY 19TH SO I CAN GO WATCH IT I AM SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!1
(PS sorry for caps)
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This is a cool idea, especially, if as someone noted above, that there will be an analysis desk of the Proleague games. Be good to see JinAir take another Round finals. It will hopefully also help stimulate an already growing Chinese scene (thanks to GPL). It is a fantastic idea and we should praise it for what it is.
However, on a somewhat tangential note, the way the "upper echelons" connected with IEM and Blizzard have acted towards the community, in its general call for global events, and more Korean inclusiveness has been disappointing to say the least. Treating our complaints like noise, not worth bothering to reply to effectively.
It will be interesting to see player list of Shanghai, I don't believe qualifiers for most regions have been done yet. The finals of the Spring Circuit (Nerchio vs. Showtime) were pretty entertaining, and if we got a finals like that again it would be great. However I do believe that most of the audience wants to see whether Nerchio, Showtime, Neeb, Harstem (assuming they all qualify) and other really good foreign players have the capability to beat Code S Koreans. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think an audience wants to see a Round of 16 Korean players, rather we want to see foreigners vs. Koreans, but in a way that it feels meaningful to have those contests.
If we had a narrative of those players actually beating Code S koreans on the "road to Blizzcon" then the storylines of Blizzcon would be so much more epic, and meaningful and would take their place in the history of Starcraft 2. Unfortuntaly as it stands we'll get Polt, and 7 WCS Circuit players* having not tested their mettle against Zest, Dark and whom else qualifies through Code S and SSL and seeindg^; and I suspect we may see 3-0's all over the place.
*Based on current standings Polt, Showtime, Nerchio, Violet, Hydra, Neeb, Elazer and Snute would qualify
^Based on current standings Dark, Zest, Stats, TY, Solar, Patience, Cure and Dear would qualify.
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On July 01 2016 04:40 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2016 04:33 sweffymo wrote:On July 01 2016 04:22 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Damn I saw Apollos announcement of an announcement last night and thought for sure we were finally getting a Global Event. This is really disappointing. A match that was going to happen anyway is just taking place at IEM, but they still won't be allowed to play in the actual tournament. And then he posted on Reddit saying something to the effect of "How DARE you be disappointed by our worthless announcement? You must not appreciate us or the work we do at all." I've seen him more than once go on a thread and pick someone's shitty comment, but then he never addresses the well written critics or the ones that reply calling him out or asking relevant questions. What a stupid attitude.
That sounds just like TB, maybe it's a British thing?
Anyway, this is nice for Chinese fans at least. Hopefully there will be a show team match as an extra for people who can't attend the event
pls?
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"Hey I got a great idea. Let's fly the KeSPA Koreans out to our Welfare Circus Series event to play the only thing they can play in and watch the tournament we banned them from so foreigners could get free moniez"
Fuck IEM and fuck anyone who thinks this is a good idea
User was warned for this post
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On July 01 2016 09:04 Phil0s0pher wrote:
However, on a somewhat tangential note, the way the "upper echelons" connected with IEM and Blizzard have acted towards the community, in its general call for global events, and more Korean inclusiveness has been disappointing to say the least. Treating our complaints like noise, not worth bothering to reply to effectively.
Yeah, that's what bothers me the most, ignoring the complaints or even acting arrogant towards people of different opinion. I got very disappointed in some people I used to like because of the way they treat the community when people are unhappy with the system. I can understand that you can't really criticize your employer too much but in the same time accept that not everyone will be happy with it.
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On July 01 2016 09:18 [16thSq] Kuro wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2016 09:04 Phil0s0pher wrote:
However, on a somewhat tangential note, the way the "upper echelons" connected with IEM and Blizzard have acted towards the community, in its general call for global events, and more Korean inclusiveness has been disappointing to say the least. Treating our complaints like noise, not worth bothering to reply to effectively. Yeah, that's what bothers me the most, ignoring the complaints or even acting arrogant towards people of different opinion. I got very disappointed in some people I used to like because of the way they treat the community when people are unhappy with the system. I can understand that you can't really criticize your employer too much but in the same time accept that not everyone will be happy with it.
Fully agree with you two here. I'd expect said people to address my concerns and explain why they think I'm wrong, not tell me to STFU and "be grateful for what we've got".
Back to the OP, this is great for the Chinese fans. And certainly speaks wonders about how the scene is growing over there. I hope the players put a hell of a show for them!
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It's great for the Chinese audience but in the grand scheme of things, it does not change much for us viewers. Both events were going to happen anyway and we still are missing any global event when it is already July. If there is no showmatch, I would even say that it is a missed opportunity.
I don't understand the way the casters and some players publicly express their frustration and arrogance. I just don't get how one cannot understand why it is a rather very disappointing and shallow announcement for parts of the community.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On July 01 2016 07:55 Diabolique wrote:
Do you know, what would be great? To let them play some rounds of Proleague in other countries ... one season of Proleague circus in Europe ...
They would all fly to Europe for the two months, rent a huge bus, for all the teams and support stuff and go in it each week to another country, live there in hotel, and play the one round there. Next week they would travel with the bus to another country, stay there and play another round ...
That would be something much better to raise fan support for SC2 than banning Koreans from tournaments!
By the way: if there is not a single global event before BlizzCon, could the smart person, who designed and approved the system, where any organizer of a global event must have a prize pool of at least 50k, by which they actually cancelled the interest of any such organizer ... could that person be fired, please?
Uh, what about players who have GSL/SSL? They can't just fly back and forth, you know. I agree the idea sounds kinda cool but with Korean leagues going on at the same time as Proleague it seems impossible.
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EPT
