EPTI mean there's memes about that particular iteration
Community Feedback Update - June 24 - Page 4
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Penev
28528 Posts
I mean there's memes about that particular iteration | ||
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WidowMineHero
New Zealand143 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On June 25 2016 17:37 RaFox17 wrote: When is the last time tou have seen bl/viper in high level ZvT?? yesterday. Also the reason you don't see bl/viper much is the same reason tempest/ht isn't seen much. I won't tell the reason I'm sure you can figure it out yourself. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On June 25 2016 18:09 Penev wrote: I understand you might have to look at late game if you buff early game but if they went with -2 armor on Ultra's they would be back at HotS level right? I mean there's memes about that particular iteration HotS ultras were really strong. the reason they were often seen getting shredded by mass marauder was that they required a ton of ressources AND you needed a ton of support for them so many zergs died while transitioning to them. If a zerg could secure 5-6 bases with hive tech they could get an extremely scary ultra/bane/infestor army. If you want to see how strong HotS Ultras were with proper support check out soO vs TaeJa on KSS and Frost. yeah he lost the game on frost but taeJa had to play like a god there. Also marauders got nerfed. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On June 25 2016 18:21 Charoisaur wrote: HotS ultras were really strong. the reason they were often seen getting shredded by mass marauder was that they required a ton of ressources AND you needed a ton of support for them so many zergs died while transitioning to them. If a zerg could secure 5-6 bases with hive tech they could get an extremely scary ultra/bane/infestor army. If you want to see how strong HotS Ultras were with proper support check out soO vs TaeJa on KSS and Frost. yeah he lost the game on frost but taeJa had to play like a god there. Also marauders got nerfed. or checkout their game on Nimbus where BL/ultra/infestor/crackling loses to 4M with planetaries HotS lategame for Zerg was based around a muta flock because ultras couldn't do anything but defend with their inability to hit bio off creep | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On June 25 2016 18:35 Ej_ wrote: or checkout their game on Nimbus where BL/ultra/infestor/crackling loses to 4M with planetaries HotS lategame for Zerg was based around a muta flock because ultras couldn't do anything but defend with their inability to hit bio off creep nobody made a huge muta flock after the thor buff. getting ultras was the way to go. edit: I meant their game on nimbus and not frost | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
On June 25 2016 17:37 RaFox17 wrote: When is the last time tou have seen bl/viper in high level ZvT?? In Korean pro games, it usually ends before Z gets Ultra(well in Korean games T usually wins I admit that), but if the Z gets there(on even or with advantage) the game mostly is a Z win. If the Z tech ends with Ultra it's perfectly fine because T can just defend and transition into a more high tech army but right now T has to kill Z with Ultra to prevent having to face BL/Viper.(or slow the Z enough that he wouldn't get enough bank to go BL/Viper) | ||
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xtorn
4060 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20327 Posts
On June 25 2016 18:09 Penev wrote: I understand you might have to look at late game if you buff early game but if they went with -2 armor on Ultra's they would be back at HotS level right? I mean there's memes about that particular iteration LOTV got +2 armor on ultras and 15.8% range buff on broodlord. Both of those were pretty large buffs for every matchup but the ultralisk one was bigger in ZvT due to the terrans being forced into bio styles and marauder getting nerfed. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On June 25 2016 20:41 Cyro wrote: LOTV got +2 armor on ultras and 15.8% range buff on broodlord. Both of those were pretty large buffs for every matchup but the ultralisk one was bigger in ZvT due to the terrans being forced into bio styles and marauder getting nerfed. also parasitic bomb blowing up air units and cracklings turned into killing machines. | ||
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Railgan
Switzerland1507 Posts
On June 25 2016 18:21 Charoisaur wrote: HotS ultras were really strong. the reason they were often seen getting shredded by mass marauder was that they required a ton of ressources AND you needed a ton of support for them so many zergs died while transitioning to them. If a zerg could secure 5-6 bases with hive tech they could get an extremely scary ultra/bane/infestor army. If you want to see how strong HotS Ultras were with proper support check out soO vs TaeJa on KSS and Frost. yeah he lost the game on frost but taeJa had to play like a god there. Also marauders got nerfed. Ultralisks in HotS were a joke. Not sure what game you played. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20327 Posts
and cracklings turned into killing machines. Yeah they did. Crackling upgrade getting doubled in effectiveness is the hidden OP of LOTV  | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On June 25 2016 20:52 Railgan wrote: Ultralisks in HotS were a joke. Not sure what game you played. lol you know nothing about the game. ultras were the reason every terran paradepushed in HotS to slow down their hive transition as much as possible. not sure which game you played. | ||
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matthy
66 Posts
On June 25 2016 03:13 ejozl wrote: Nooo, keep the Ultralisk super strong, instead buff late game options for Terran. Don't give in to people who just wants to Marine Marauder every game all day, maybe the majority of Terrans wants that to be the case as of now, but that's only because the other Terrans left the game. Its sad to see that Terran has only one real viable army now MMM maybe with a Liberator or ghost sprinkled in it but mostly MMM. Would love to see more variation. | ||
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stilt
France2755 Posts
On June 25 2016 06:06 [PkF] Wire wrote: can you read ? is obviously about the Z early game buffs they mentioned in the previous community update. You can say it's not enough and I'd probably agree, but they're not talking about nerfing Z with no compensation. Yes I can,the queens change will never happen, it's too awkward and risky, the spore buff could have an impact but I have some doubts. Between nothing and a nerf of ultra with a buff on the spore, I prefer nothing for the sake of balance. A slightly better defense will be not enough I think and with a normal ultra, the mu should be balanced in late game but considering the advantage in the first stages, it would be most likely a slaughter. I speak for Korea obviously, not for me or the top eu, I stop playing the game since 2 months so it is not as if I care. Anyway, the design of the mu will still be terrible, I don't enjoy zvt since lotv, getting reckt by mech was still funnier than winning with ravagers/infestors based composition followed by an ultra a+click but if you nerf all of this, you must make big changements and Blizzard is not in the mood currently. Ah and between nothing and a nerf of ultra with a buff on the spore, I prefer nothing for the sake of balance. A slightly better defense will be not enough I think and with a normal ultra, the mu should be balanced in late game but considering the advantage in the first stages, it would be a slaughter. I speak for Korea obviously, not for me or the top eu, I stop playing the game since 2 months so it is not as if I care. lol you know nothing about the game. ultras were the reason every terran paradepushed in HotS to slow down their hive transition as much as possible. not sure which game you played. This was part of the reason but not the biggest, there are some others like: avoiding a 90 drones eco with full creep on the map, 30mutas with the +3 air attack; as a zerg, I always preferred to have such a ball of mutas than ultras who could be countered by a a good mass marauders transitions and were overall shit without support off creep, while the mass muta harass was so damn strong that it generally forced the bio T to make a rapid engage on the creep and well, baneling did the jobs. I liked the parade push area, it involved good micro, overall great mechanics and tactical depth from both sides. Now, zerg just have to a+click + spam biles and fungal, great... | ||
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ecnahc
United States395 Posts
I'm not saying it won't help but as long as the terran endgame is bio/medic/lib not much will change. There's plenty of other units that could use some love right now if blizzard insists on a buff not nerf philosophy. The swarm host is still irrelevant, hydra still rarely sees play in tvz more so the lurker. It's not like zerg is bereft of options either, it's just that the accelerated lotv economy greatly benefits the terran 1 1 1 style tech tree over the upgraded townhall style that zerg has. Before buffing static defense i would much rather see some terran tech changes, not a nerf to individual unit power but if you could say, skip on spores if you didn't see a tech lab on a starport or a hidden armory like you can scout an incoming hellbat push not only would more strategy develop it would also maintain the current terran composition power level. | ||
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2396 Posts
On June 25 2016 21:01 Charoisaur wrote: lol you know nothing about the game. ultras were the reason every terran paradepushed in HotS to slow down their hive transition as much as possible. not sure which game you played. pretty sure it was better to play ling bane mutal with 3/3 than to make ultras in zvt back in hots (at least b4 thor buff) | ||
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HallofPain4444
Japan71 Posts
On June 25 2016 20:50 Charoisaur wrote: also parasitic bomb blowing up air units and cracklings turned into killing machines. BL range buff is kinda irrelevant. Cuz PB kills Vikings so fast that T has nothing to throw against BLs now. Vikings were just fine in WOL and HOTS. It's never been OP. I have no idea why it deserved this much nerf.(although it's indirect) And please don't mention the Thor. The Thor needs like 15 range if u want them to actually hit the BLs in a real fight. They are large, slow, gets blocked by broodlings, and are nothing but cannon fodders to friendly tank fire. Toss doesn't have problem against BLs at all because of lol u know who. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
Now they deal 10 damage. With 7 armor, they'd deal 12 damage, with 6 armor, they'd deal 14 damage. In HOTS, +3 marins dealt 3 damage to +3 armor ultras with plating. Now Marines deal 1 damage. With 7 armor, they'd deal 2 damage, with 6 armor, they'd deal 3 damage. That's pretty much the only numbers that matter when talking about ultra's armor. So even if we went back to 6 armor, the ultra would be much stronger in TvZ that it was in HOTS. However, another thing to consider is the reason why ultras are such a hard switch to deal with as terran : the fact chitinous plating gives +4 armor. It takes half the time +3 armor does to complete. And it makes an ultra with +2 armor and chitinous plating a whooping 7 armor already. One way to take away a little strength from zerg T3 switch would be to have ultralisks start with 0 armor, then gain +2 for each armor upgrade, up to 6, and then have chitinous plating give an additional 1 armor (for a reduced price), up to 7. Which would of course need to be coupled with a zerg mid game buff. For instance, maybe make the ravager take an additional 25 gaz to morph, but give it the ability to shoot air with its autoattack? This would help zerg defend drops and harass without increasing (again) the already dominant role of the queen in zerg defense? | ||
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ecnahc
United States395 Posts
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