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Community Feedback Update - June 17 - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
195 CommentsPost a Reply
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SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
June 17 2016 19:18 GMT
#41
On June 18 2016 04:09 avilo wrote:
Revert liberator damage nerf so Terran is playable again. Remove liberator range from the game.

Two problems solved.

Terran has a pretty great winrate in Korea, so I'm not sure how it's not playable.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
June 17 2016 19:22 GMT
#42
On June 18 2016 03:48 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2016 03:41 chipmonklord17 wrote:
On June 18 2016 03:29 BisuDagger wrote:
How about the inject larva ability is renamed to inject and can be used on a spore/spine crawler which temporarily buffs movement speed and burrow/unburrow speed?


It would never get used. When given the choice between injecting a hatch and not injecting a hatch the Zerg will 100% of the time pick the hatchery. There's just no way they could make the burrow/unburrow speed short enough to make it worth it, short of teleportation, and even then I doubt it

You're telling me that you don't give enough queens and that you don't have the energy to spare? You must have a ton of hatcheries in your games.



I'm saying that larva injects are that much better. Being able to move one spore quickly versus injecting seems like a no brainer to me. That and energy not being used for inject is much better saved for transfuse. I don't think it would be possible to make a buff to burrow/unburrow time that would be better than just injecting the hatch or transfusing.
ecnahc
Profile Joined January 2010
United States395 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-17 19:27:13
June 17 2016 19:25 GMT
#43
We should all push for more ground to air solutions, they are very resolute on having air be a powerful and constant threat. It should be possible to play in such a way that you can deal with it without being forced to commit entirely to air yourself. Even if it's not as efficient as getting the "correct" counter you should be able to fight it. Queens are a good example of a homogenous combination of defense, caster, specialist, macro mechanic and ground to air dps but they might be the answer in this situation. There are far too many all-rounder units and far too few specialists, so balancing something like this is going to be hell. Especially if map design continues to promote choked mineral lines and excess air space.
inside a cloud of resentment and vanity
uThermal
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands165 Posts
June 17 2016 19:27 GMT
#44
I understand blizzard wanting 'creative' maps but Dasan Station is really not a good map >.<
Team Liquid
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
June 17 2016 19:27 GMT
#45
On June 18 2016 04:16 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2016 04:10 Nerchio wrote:
I like how they went from "Zerg has problems" to "Zerg has only problem with liberator harass" which is absolutely not true lol, only range liberator is broken

at the level you play zerg is the strongest race so maybe you aren't the best person to say where zergs problems are.

Judging by that comment, none of us here should be allowed to comment at all... Koreans were the one that demanded the 4 larvae per inject in the first place so it is not that easy to just point out and say "Koreans knows better", a lot of Koreans showed to be very biased or don't understand how to deal with some strategies at all.

On June 18 2016 04:18 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2016 04:09 avilo wrote:
Revert liberator damage nerf so Terran is playable again. Remove liberator range from the game.

Two problems solved.

Terran has a pretty great winrate in Korea, so I'm not sure how it's not playable.

I find it funny that you are even trying to argue with avilo.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
NinjaToss
Profile Blog Joined October 2015
Austria1383 Posts
June 17 2016 19:37 GMT
#46
I love Dasan Station, please make Dasan go through. I'm a big fan of macro maps but Dasan is just amazing, it has a really big potential to be a amazing map
I'm sorry for all those that got their hearts broken by Zest | Zest, Bisu, soO, herO, MC, Maru, TY, Rogue, Trap, TaeJa", Favourite foreigners: ShoWTimE, Snute, Serral and Nerchio| KT BEST KT |
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-17 19:45:44
June 17 2016 19:43 GMT
#47
I still don't get it. So many great maps, but they purposely(?) choose the most horrible ones possible? Every **** time. Creativity and innovation they say, and then we have to play clones of CK and Bel'shir Vestige for another half a year. With an addition of ugly and unbalanced Dasan Station (the epitome of creativity, especially in terms of naming).
Less is more.
Nerchio
Profile Joined October 2009
Poland2633 Posts
June 17 2016 19:57 GMT
#48
They choose maps that I wasn't a fan of -_-
Progamer"I am the best" - Nerchio , 2017.
Nerchio
Profile Joined October 2009
Poland2633 Posts
June 17 2016 20:08 GMT
#49
On June 18 2016 04:16 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2016 04:10 Nerchio wrote:
I like how they went from "Zerg has problems" to "Zerg has only problem with liberator harass" which is absolutely not true lol, only range liberator is broken

at the level you play zerg is the strongest race so maybe you aren't the best person to say where zergs problems are.

what I want to say is that if the koreans say liberators are the problem I believe them and not nerchio. Didn't mean to insult him.

Not sure what you're saying and where zerg is the strongest lol
Progamer"I am the best" - Nerchio , 2017.
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-17 20:41:40
June 17 2016 20:41 GMT
#50
A queen range buff during a period where zerg has an amazingly strong late game in TvZ? No way that could go wrong!

On June 18 2016 05:08 Nerchio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 18 2016 04:16 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 18 2016 04:10 Nerchio wrote:
I like how they went from "Zerg has problems" to "Zerg has only problem with liberator harass" which is absolutely not true lol, only range liberator is broken

at the level you play zerg is the strongest race so maybe you aren't the best person to say where zergs problems are.

what I want to say is that if the koreans say liberators are the problem I believe them and not nerchio. Didn't mean to insult him.

Not sure what you're saying and where zerg is the strongest lol

You'd have to be pretty biased to say that zergs aren't the strongest in non-Korean tournaments or at the very least at parity with protoss.
xTJx
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil419 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-17 21:00:25
June 17 2016 20:58 GMT
#51
Blizzard please, play Zerg for a week and see for yourself.

Most ZvT's you'll get dropped early on chokes, and struggle to kill the marines because lings suck and you don't have enough larvae to make 3 times the marines your opponent got (that's what it takes to kill them). You pull your queens to help and there goes your injects.

Most ZvP's you'll face mass adepts shading into your mineral lines. Spines are useless and all you can do is spliting your army after the shades and hope your opponent is not good enough to focus fire your drones, because adepts take a while to die.
No prejudices, i hate everyone equally.
affect
Profile Joined June 2010
United States60 Posts
June 17 2016 21:00 GMT
#52
Zerg is obviously super strong outside of the top level of play. Last time I looked Z was 40% of masters players, so buffing Z would only make it worse for people trying to play harder races.
im cool
MperorM1
Profile Joined September 2015
90 Posts
June 17 2016 21:16 GMT
#53
On June 18 2016 04:09 avilo wrote:
Revert liberator damage nerf so Terran is playable again. Remove liberator range from the game.

Two problems solved.


Yes!!! I don't at all understand why they think liberator range upgrade is a good idea.

The liberator range upgrade is in my opinion the reason for most of the issues with the liberator

Liberator harass is cool, with good liberator micro terran can re position his liberators constantly to dodge spores, queens and stalkers.

What is not cool is liberator harass with range.

No one likes playing against it, and if it hits you unprepared there is nothing you can do to hold it. It's a lot like DT's in that regard. Either you scout and you counter it, or you flat out lose the game.

The other issue that the range upgrade creates, is a lack of counter play

Early liberators spice up engagements a huge ton! If protoss and zerg micros well, they can snipe the liberators and engage around them. This is fun for both sides of the engagement, as it creates micro opportunities for both races!

That all changes once terran gets out liberator range. Once range is out, terran can comfortably position his liberators far behind his army, making it much easier for terran to control and much harder for zerg and protoss to snipe and play against.

This is where the liberator stops being fun for zerg and protoss. This is the point where the liberator just feels like this unstoppable force that slowly leap frogs towards your base, while you can only sit and watch.

Liberator range, makes the liberator easy to control and hard to play against.
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
June 17 2016 21:38 GMT
#54
On June 18 2016 05:41 TheWinks wrote:
A queen range buff during a period where zerg has an amazingly strong late game in TvZ? No way that could go wrong!

Show nested quote +
On June 18 2016 05:08 Nerchio wrote:
On June 18 2016 04:16 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 18 2016 04:10 Nerchio wrote:
I like how they went from "Zerg has problems" to "Zerg has only problem with liberator harass" which is absolutely not true lol, only range liberator is broken

at the level you play zerg is the strongest race so maybe you aren't the best person to say where zergs problems are.

what I want to say is that if the koreans say liberators are the problem I believe them and not nerchio. Didn't mean to insult him.

Not sure what you're saying and where zerg is the strongest lol

You'd have to be pretty biased to say that zergs aren't the strongest in non-Korean tournaments or at the very least at parity with protoss.


Just because there are more Zergs doesn't mean zerg is stronger. Quality does not equal quantity.
Squaal
Profile Joined April 2013
11 Posts
June 17 2016 21:47 GMT
#55
Any link for the description of the maps please?
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20313 Posts
June 17 2016 21:56 GMT
#56
On June 18 2016 03:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Holy shit queen AA range is already at 7, I don't think buffing it would be reasonable.

Buffing spores root time makes a lot of sense though.


queen AA range to 8 or 9 and spore root time would both affect PvZ phoenix, prism, dt etc play a lot, as well as muta play in ZvZ and non-lib ZvT games. If the problem is with liberator then change lib IMO.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Pugfarmer
Profile Joined April 2014
70 Posts
June 17 2016 21:57 GMT
#57
The fact is that non-Kr terran and protoss are largely inferior in skill to their Kr counterparts. If they don't make any changes soon GSL,SSL, and proleague will basically be two races, and as a spectator that kind of sucks.
Frudgey
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada3367 Posts
June 17 2016 21:58 GMT
#58
So why don't people like Dasan station?

Apologizes for my ignorance, but rather I'm not "map smart" and I don't understand what might be so bad about it. Is it the rush distance? How the bases are set up? The size of the map? Something else?

If someone could please explain this to a map illiterate person that'd be much appreciated!
It is better to die for The Emperor than live for yourself.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-17 22:13:05
June 17 2016 22:12 GMT
#59
On June 18 2016 06:58 Frudgey wrote:
So why don't people like Dasan station?

Apologizes for my ignorance, but rather I'm not "map smart" and I don't understand what might be so bad about it. Is it the rush distance? How the bases are set up? The size of the map? Something else?

If someone could please explain this to a map illiterate person that'd be much appreciated!


If you saw the games from the BasetradeTV map test tournament it was almost only cheeses and rushes with 2 longer games. There's lots of easily abusable positions with siege tanks being able to cover the main ramp from the other side of the doodads, or shooting at the main gas from the natural, or tempests taking unassailable positions. And when the game does go longer the army movements are incredibly awkward due to all the walls everywhere, which makes defending any number of bases a huge pain due to the army having to circle around everything. I don't think there were any games that went to the late game, but having such a constrained map probably makes the late game really painful too--or causes people to simply go mass air. Also the map is most likely fundamentally broken.

Note that not all people dislike Dasan. But those that dislike Dasan (like me) really dislike it a lot.
Nerchio
Profile Joined October 2009
Poland2633 Posts
June 17 2016 22:34 GMT
#60
On June 18 2016 05:41 TheWinks wrote:
A queen range buff during a period where zerg has an amazingly strong late game in TvZ? No way that could go wrong!

Show nested quote +
On June 18 2016 05:08 Nerchio wrote:
On June 18 2016 04:16 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 18 2016 04:10 Nerchio wrote:
I like how they went from "Zerg has problems" to "Zerg has only problem with liberator harass" which is absolutely not true lol, only range liberator is broken

at the level you play zerg is the strongest race so maybe you aren't the best person to say where zergs problems are.

what I want to say is that if the koreans say liberators are the problem I believe them and not nerchio. Didn't mean to insult him.

Not sure what you're saying and where zerg is the strongest lol

You'd have to be pretty biased to say that zergs aren't the strongest in non-Korean tournaments or at the very least at parity with protoss.

Protoss is the strongest
Progamer"I am the best" - Nerchio , 2017.
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