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Zest: The Last Titan - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
426 CommentsPost a Reply
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Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55566 Posts
May 29 2016 13:25 GMT
#261
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Life stumbled through the harder side of the bracket with luck and fromage.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
May 29 2016 13:33 GMT
#262
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
May 29 2016 13:35 GMT
#263
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.


No, it wasn't.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55566 Posts
May 29 2016 13:38 GMT
#264
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.

I thought you're so big on win rates, how do you not know that his PvP win rate was better than his PvZ win rate since 2014?
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
May 29 2016 13:42 GMT
#265
On May 29 2016 22:38 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.

I thought you're so big on win rates, how do you not know that his PvP win rate was better than his PvZ win rate since 2014?

So 62.07% is bigger than 64.06% and 65.32%?
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55566 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 13:53:08
May 29 2016 13:44 GMT
#266
On May 29 2016 22:42 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:38 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.

I thought you're so big on win rates, how do you not know that his PvP win rate was better than his PvZ win rate since 2014?

So 62.07% is bigger than 64.06% and 65.32%?

I thought we only count offline vs Koreans. And by that metric his PvP was 65% in 2015 and his PvZ 61%. His PvP from 2014 to the end of HotS: 63.21%, PvZ: 61.48%.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
May 29 2016 13:45 GMT
#267
On May 29 2016 22:35 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.


No, it wasn't.

Again, check the data, no "imagination" please
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
Silvana
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
3713 Posts
May 29 2016 13:46 GMT
#268
You guys I don't know why you even bother.
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 13:53:21
May 29 2016 13:52 GMT
#269
On May 29 2016 22:44 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:42 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:38 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.

I thought you're so big on win rates, how do you not know that his PvP win rate was better than his PvZ win rate since 2014?

So 62.07% is bigger than 64.06% and 65.32%?

I thought we only count offline vs Koreans. And by that metric his PvP was 65% in 2015 and his PvZ 61%. His PvP from 2014 to the end of HotS: 63.21%, PvZ: 61.48%.

I don't even know how you got any of those 3 numbers.

Those are his offline career win rate against P, Z, and T respectively.
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55566 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 13:56:09
May 29 2016 13:53 GMT
#270
On May 29 2016 22:52 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:44 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:42 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:38 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
[quote]

Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.

I thought you're so big on win rates, how do you not know that his PvP win rate was better than his PvZ win rate since 2014?

So 62.07% is bigger than 64.06% and 65.32%?

I thought we only count offline vs Koreans. And by that metric his PvP was 65% in 2015 and his PvZ 61%. His PvP from 2014 to the end of HotS: 63.21%, PvZ: 61.48%.

I don't even know how you got any of those 3 numbers.

Those are his career win rate against P, Z, and T respectively.

You just went and did life time win rates but those don't matter because his win rates were different every year. In 2013 his PvZ was his best matchup and PvT the worst. In 2014 his PvT was his best and PvP the worst. In 2015 his PvT was the best and PvZ the worst.

Not to mention that those include LotV and WoL games that are completely irrelevant for 2015 Blizzcon. So yeah, by career win rate his PvP is his worst matchup, but not by the factual basis of games played in Heart of the Swarm in the year 2015.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 14:02:41
May 29 2016 14:01 GMT
#271
On May 29 2016 22:53 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:52 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:44 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:42 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:38 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
[quote]
I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.

I thought you're so big on win rates, how do you not know that his PvP win rate was better than his PvZ win rate since 2014?

So 62.07% is bigger than 64.06% and 65.32%?

I thought we only count offline vs Koreans. And by that metric his PvP was 65% in 2015 and his PvZ 61%. His PvP from 2014 to the end of HotS: 63.21%, PvZ: 61.48%.

I don't even know how you got any of those 3 numbers.

Those are his career win rate against P, Z, and T respectively.

You just went and did life time win rates but those don't matter because his win rates were different every year. In 2013 his PvZ was his best matchup and PvT the worst. In 2014 his PvT was his best and PvP the worst. In 2015 his PvT was the best and PvZ the worst.

Not to mention that those include LotV and WoL games that are completely irrelevant for 2015 Blizzcon. So yeah, by career win rate his PvP is his worst matchup, but not by the factual basis of games played in Heart of the Swarm in the year 2015.

Well, Olli didn't say it was life time or only 2015 either.
Besides, adjusting and adapting new version of SC2 quickly is also an ability that a top-tier should have, there is no excuse about that.
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
NinjaToss
Profile Blog Joined October 2015
Austria1383 Posts
May 29 2016 14:01 GMT
#272
On May 29 2016 22:46 Silvana wrote:
You guys I don't know why you even bother.


This argument is pointless, as Zest himself said "I think people should know who is the ace by now"
Still usable in this circumstance
I'm sorry for all those that got their hearts broken by Zest | Zest, Bisu, soO, herO, MC, Maru, TY, Rogue, Trap, TaeJa", Favourite foreigners: ShoWTimE, Snute, Serral and Nerchio| KT BEST KT |
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
May 29 2016 14:02 GMT
#273
On May 29 2016 22:46 Silvana wrote:
You guys I don't know why you even bother.

Fanboy passion and boredom.
kiss kiss fall in love
NinjaToss
Profile Blog Joined October 2015
Austria1383 Posts
May 29 2016 14:03 GMT
#274
On May 29 2016 23:01 Alarak89 wrote:
Besides, adjusting new version of SC2 quickly is also an ability that a top-tier should have, there is no excuse about that.


To your argument, then Zest is clearly the better player right now, as he adapted to this expansion better than the others by winning the GSL
I'm sorry for all those that got their hearts broken by Zest | Zest, Bisu, soO, herO, MC, Maru, TY, Rogue, Trap, TaeJa", Favourite foreigners: ShoWTimE, Snute, Serral and Nerchio| KT BEST KT |
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16041 Posts
May 29 2016 14:09 GMT
#275
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Lol with that kind of logic you can downtalk every tournament run. Zest beat a TaeJa way past his prime, barely won 2:1 against Journey (lol), advances from the 2nd groupstage vs two zergs who struggle in zvp in a protoss favored metagame, beat TaeJa again who stumbled to the quarterfinals through pure luck, beat Dear who played terrible on that day and finally teamkilled TY which doesn't say anything about skill because teamkills are always weird.
not impressed
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Alarak89
Profile Joined January 2016
United States882 Posts
May 29 2016 14:10 GMT
#276
On May 29 2016 23:03 NinjaToss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 23:01 Alarak89 wrote:
Besides, adjusting new version of SC2 quickly is also an ability that a top-tier should have, there is no excuse about that.


To your argument, then Zest is clearly the better player right now, as he adapted to this expansion better than the others by winning the GSL

"the better player" = "the last Titian"? I never say he is not "the better player" atm, but are two statement equivalent? Again, what did he do to adjust and to adapt during 2013 when WoL ended?
sOs is THE ONLY player I pay attention to
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55566 Posts
May 29 2016 14:13 GMT
#277
On May 29 2016 23:01 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:53 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:52 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:44 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:42 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:38 Elentos wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
[quote]

Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.

I thought you're so big on win rates, how do you not know that his PvP win rate was better than his PvZ win rate since 2014?

So 62.07% is bigger than 64.06% and 65.32%?

I thought we only count offline vs Koreans. And by that metric his PvP was 65% in 2015 and his PvZ 61%. His PvP from 2014 to the end of HotS: 63.21%, PvZ: 61.48%.

I don't even know how you got any of those 3 numbers.

Those are his career win rate against P, Z, and T respectively.

You just went and did life time win rates but those don't matter because his win rates were different every year. In 2013 his PvZ was his best matchup and PvT the worst. In 2014 his PvT was his best and PvP the worst. In 2015 his PvT was the best and PvZ the worst.

Not to mention that those include LotV and WoL games that are completely irrelevant for 2015 Blizzcon. So yeah, by career win rate his PvP is his worst matchup, but not by the factual basis of games played in Heart of the Swarm in the year 2015.

Well, Olli didn't say it was life time or only 2015 either.
Besides, adjusting and adapting new version of SC2 quickly is also an ability that a top-tier should have, there is no excuse about that.

You can infer he meant at the time because PartinG's worst matchup life time is PvZ.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
May 29 2016 14:13 GMT
#278
On May 29 2016 22:45 Alarak89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:35 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:33 Alarak89 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Compare that to Zest's most recent GSL for example. He beat every semifinalist, including the #2 protoss, the #2 zerg and the #3 terran. He beat Terrans #1 and #2 in Code A and in the finals. He literally crossed off every important name except Dark, who got himself eliminated earlier, decisively and without ever really breaking a sweat. This is a more impressive tournament win than sOs' Blizzcon. As was Zest's first GSL.

Sorry, PvP was sOs' weakest matchup as well, relatively. If his PvP is like his PvT and PvZ, he would dominate this game from two years ago.


No, it wasn't.

Again, check the data, no "imagination" please


I'm gonna end this conversation now. Every evaluation is subjective. So we'll just have to leave it at that. Your criteria are incomplete and really silly, as just demonstrated with lifetime winrate vs winrate in a certain time frame.

And on top of that, here's my entirely subjective final thought: I probably know more about protoss than you do, which is why I'm quite confident in my estimations and raw numbers, however twisted and distorted, won't change that.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
May 29 2016 14:15 GMT
#279
On May 29 2016 23:09 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Lol with that kind of logic you can downtalk every tournament run. Zest beat a TaeJa way past his prime, barely won 2:1 against Journey (lol), advances from the 2nd groupstage vs two zergs who struggle in zvp in a protoss favored metagame, beat TaeJa again who stumbled to the quarterfinals through pure luck, beat Dear who played terrible on that day and finally teamkilled TY which doesn't say anything about skill because teamkills are always weird.
not impressed


If you can find some arguments to support that then I'm all ears. But you probably can't.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16041 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-29 14:20:23
May 29 2016 14:19 GMT
#280
On May 29 2016 23:15 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2016 23:09 Charoisaur wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:21 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:16 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:10 Olli wrote:
On May 29 2016 22:08 swissman777 wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:50 NinjaToss wrote:
On May 29 2016 21:48 Olli wrote:
Just because something's labelled "World Championship" doesn't make it a more difficult tournament to win. It just sounds cool.


Good point, that's why the GSL is still one of the hardest if not the hardest tournament to win. And Zest has 3 of them

I would not count the third one as it was pretty short tournament and consisted of only eight players or sth. And who says that blizzcon wins are worse than GSLs? 2015 blizzcon alone consisted of zest, inno, classic, hero, maru, life, rain, parting, rogue etc... how more stacked can you be in a tournament?


Did sOs beat all those players?


Did zest beat all those players on the last GSL? And maru should not count as TvP match back then was pretty much P favored if I remember well.
Also, sOs beat parting, rain, rogue and life in his 2015 blizzcon run. Why do you think that's not legitimate?


I do think it's legitimate. However: Parting and Rain both had PvP as their weakest matchup, while it was sOs' strongest. Rogue, in my book, wasn't an absolute top player and Life played very poorly at Blizzcon, yet somehow stumbled through with luck of his own.

Lol with that kind of logic you can downtalk every tournament run. Zest beat a TaeJa way past his prime, barely won 2:1 against Journey (lol), advances from the 2nd groupstage vs two zergs who struggle in zvp in a protoss favored metagame, beat TaeJa again who stumbled to the quarterfinals through pure luck, beat Dear who played terrible on that day and finally teamkilled TY which doesn't say anything about skill because teamkills are always weird.
not impressed


If you can find some arguments to support that then I'm all ears. But you probably can't.

As you can't find any arguments how Life stumbled to the blizzcon finals through pure luck and a 5 time GSL/SSL ro8 players isn't an absolute top player.
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