EPTSwarm Host Readjustment Idea - Page 2
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20300 Posts
On May 02 2016 11:47 Aegwynn wrote: Nice post, however this idea brought up hundred times by hundred different players. They are just stubborn, we will never see scourge in lotv. It would resolve so many problems, what a shame. Just like we'll never see lurkers? | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On May 02 2016 11:20 Cyro wrote: Zerg has some of the best anti-air in the game right now That's absolutely not true. Queens are immobile, spores are static D, and hydralisks are glass. If for some reason you're talking about parasitic bomb, then that's a late game spell the punish clumped tier 2 air. Meaning the enemy needs > 20 tier 2 air units for it to be worth the cost, and it's completely fucking useless against tier 3 due to the damage nerf. Don't even get me started on the embarrassment that is the corrupter. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20300 Posts
Spore crawlers are more accessible than cannons and can move. They're dedicated AA, which means they can do more AA damage than a generalist static defense. Queens are built anyway for macro mechanics, but many people build more than a few of them when AA is needed. They have some advantages over stalkers: * Cheaper (150/0 vs 125/50) * Slightly more HP (175 vs 160) and no armor tag, even though they have the same 1 base armor (that means taking 2.6x less damage from charged void rays!) * Transfuse * 30% more AA-non-armored DPS which includes phoenix, mutalisks, oracles * 16.67% more range If for some reason you're talking about parasitic bomb, then that's a late game spell the punish clumped tier 2 air. Meaning the enemy needs > 20 tier 2 air units for it to be worth the cost That's an exaggeration, it stacks and you can throw out more than a few of them. The less health a unit has, the more vulnerable it is to parasitic bomb. The more health it has, the more vulnerable it is to abduct. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On May 02 2016 18:31 Cyro wrote: The only race that i'd consider to have awesome early-midgame anti-air at the moment is terran and it's getting nerfed tomorrow in a big way. Spore crawlers are more accessible than cannons and can move. They're dedicated AA, which means they can do more AA damage than a generalist static defense. Queens are built anyway for macro mechanics, but many people build more than a few of them when AA is needed. They have some advantages over stalkers: * Cheaper (150/0 vs 125/50) * Slightly more HP (175 vs 160) and no armor tag, even though they have the same 1 base armor (that means taking 2.6x less damage from charged void rays!) * Transfuse * 30% more AA-non-armored DPS which includes phoenix, mutalisks, oracles * 16.67% more range That's an exaggeration, it stacks and you can throw out more than a few of them. The less health a unit has, the more vulnerable it is to parasitic bomb. The more health it has, the more vulnerable it is to abduct. you make some good points. But Spores are not aggressive unless you are able to get your creep to their front door. like there isn't any spore all ins like cannon all ins. queens are decent when vs small amounts of air units. If you get 5+ temptests out, over 20 mutas, 10 oricals, over 10 libs. ect ect ect. queens dont scale. terran can mass rines vs air, even tho it may not be ideal, toss can mass stalkers if needed, tho still may not be ideal. vs libs stalkers get two shotted. hydras get one shotted. and rines are just min. | ||
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
Not really, return of the lurker was kind of expected. And this expansion is already out so different scenarios. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20300 Posts
queens are decent when vs small amounts of air units. If you get 5+ temptests out, over 20 mutas, 10 oricals, over 10 libs. ect ect ect. queens dont scale. Neither do stalkers - they do ok damage to armored, terrible damage to light and waste an increasingly large % of it as you get more stalkers and more air units. vs libs stalkers get two shotted. hydras get one shotted. and hydra is cheaper with 1.79x more DPS against AA-armored, 2.31x more DPS against AA-nonarmored. No blink, but it's a decent trade ------- Not really, return of the lurker was kind of expected. It really wasn't! | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On May 02 2016 18:26 InfCereal wrote: That's absolutely not true. Queens are immobile, spores are static D, and hydralisks are glass. If for some reason you're talking about parasitic bomb, then that's a late game spell the punish clumped tier 2 air. Meaning the enemy needs > 20 tier 2 air units for it to be worth the cost, and it's completely fucking useless against tier 3 due to the damage nerf. Don't even get me started on the embarrassment that is the corrupter. I think you're forgetting about Fungal. No race had good anti-air, especially when it comes to ground to air, but I think Zerg has as good anti-air as any other race. Corruptors aren't a good unit individually, but when you can make 30 of them late game in less time that it takes to make a single Void Ray, you realize their strength in numbers. Team games (3's and 4's) really highlight the deficiencies each race has in anti-air. | ||
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ecnahc
United States395 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20300 Posts
No race had good anti-air, especially when it comes to ground to air Terran is clearly a step above the others early-midgame IMO but i think P and Z both have too weak ground-to-air at t1 - t1.5. Z and P have some good t2 antiair but they're in a bit of a weird position because they counter each other to some degree ----- ^fungal was made non-instant-cast because it's not fun to have an undodgeable+chainable long range "you can't run or micro" button | ||
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ecnahc
United States395 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24209 Posts
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On May 03 2016 02:09 Cyro wrote: Neither do stalkers - they do ok damage to armored, terrible damage to light and waste an increasingly large % of it as you get more stalkers and more air units. and hydra is cheaper with 1.79x more DPS against AA-armored, 2.31x more DPS against AA-nonarmored. No blink, but it's a decent trade ------- It really wasn't! Hydras are slightly cheaper and do indeed do more dps. HOWEVER when a lib is behind your mineral line sniping your drones, often time only one two hydras have the range to snipe down the lib. (assuming it does have the extra range upgrade) This means that 1 or 2, sometimes 3 hydras actually just die before they even get a shot off! because stalkers can take a shot. it means that they can actually get into range and fire and so more damage despire doing less dps. | ||
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Sholip
Hungary422 Posts
However, I think that Parasitic Bomb is currently too strong of an AA ability for it to be compatible with this redesign. If such a change were to happen, I would love to see PB get a massive nerf, so that it remains somewhat useable as a supplementary spell, but not very strong. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
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