Blizzard eSports LatAm Dear fans of StarCraft and Copa America, we regret to inform you that as part of an ongoing investigation by Blizzard on cases of match-fixing which affected WCS Europe, has identified the Latin American Juan "major" Tena as one of the players involved .
The player has been suspended this season's Copa America which classifies the WCS Circuit Spring Championship that will be played during Dreamhack ZOWIE Tours Open in May.
Because of this, the final key to this season's Copa America has been changed, and the best position will be taken by Tunico (3rd Place Group D).
At the moment this punishment only applies to this season's Copa America, however malicious intervention is a serious offense results so that may have major consequences.
We will keep our community informed about the progress of the investigation.
Thank you very much for your understanding. Source
MajOr has been disqualified from Copa América 2016 Season 2 and has been replaced by Tunico.
Copa América 2016 Season 2 RO8: Kelazhur vs DarKLoVeR Jarppi vs ByRada Cham vs JimRising Tunico vs Pacomike
MajOr statement : hey guys. i rarely post here. but lemme explain my situation. so i played this ladder just for fun just like i did last ladder on my other id mencemeat. so today my friend miniraiser sends a article on spanish about copa america in skype chat saying i was DQED from copa america for matchfixing on WCS Europe. so my first reaction was like he was to be trolling me, so i open it. and its true i get so confused on why so i go check my email in hope i get some explanation. nothing i did this because when DNS / Marinelord had this problem. they got an Email from blizzard to ask for the replaays. i got none So Moving on i want to clarifiy I DID NO MATCHFIX. i can give all my replays to blizzard if they want. Only thing i can find is suspicious is out of my 140games i think i played during the ladder i got about 6-10 early leave games vs different players. on top of my head i think i left vs zanster vs botvinik and vs lambo. 1 game each. there has to be more but i dont recall. now lemme tell u why i did this. its not because i was cheating its because i been sick last 5days so literally sometimes i would que the game and would start feeling bad so i would just leave and go laydown or go to the bathroom. so now if this is matchfixing. im ridicolously upset over this decision. consdiering the players that i think i supposedlty helped did not even qualify for the tournament and i had like a huge winrate vs them too 5-1 vs zanster i think 6-2 vs lambo like 7-1 vs botvinik. so how the fuck im matchfixining? i remember this clearly my last game of the ladder was vs zanster. i left immedatly cause i was feeling so bad just went to the bathroom and to sleep. this was atleast 4hours before the ladder lock. so if im being banned for giving zanster a free win 4hours before ladderlock cause im sick. than idk what to say. this is all my speculation ofcourse cause blizzard didnt even tell me the real reason. but as i said I DID NOT MATCHFIX edit: i got doctor note incase that helps in anything..
On April 10 2016 01:44 Major wrote: ok guys. so after pulling some strings ive finally made my way to contact kim phan on the phone which later contacted me with someone by the name of adren im really dissapointed. here is what happened:
So 4hours i think before the ladder ended i had 2 games vs lambo one on dusk and one on prion. one i left immediatly after i qued to go take my medicine and to the bathroom(wasnt feeling to well as already mentioned)since i forgotten to take it. and than we played again on prion and i lost i did a proxy reaper didnt work tried 1base banshee didnt work game went on for like 10mins and i lost. so those games are the suspicious ones are they suspcious? ofcourse they are if you just look at them without asking or knowing they fucking suspicious. but take in mind its 4hour before ladder lock ends and i didnt do it malisioucly at fucking all. also this same day i went like 6-2 vs lambo counting those game so if anything i took more points from him than he won from those 2games. this is one of their reasons.
2nd one is I used to left marinelord play on my account (mencemeat) and i played on his barcode take in mind this is outside of the ladder qualification so even tho its againts the rules to share account. EVERY SINGLE PROGAMER SHARES ACCOUNTS for practice purposes in korea everyone do it in foriegern scene too. if we gonna ban ppl for sharing accounts we will not have a pro scene anymore
im extremly upset im being called a cheater a scum oversomething like that that really had not even impact on the outcome of the competition and was not done malisioculy.
i did not try to help lambo qualify.
btw as my final word i asked so this mean i cant play copa america and im banned from tours completly? and hes responded to me there is a sligth chance u can play server qualifers but unlikely so there you go guys. reason im being possibly banned from tours and def from this season of copa america is because i left 1 game vs lambo 4hours before ladderlock. next time i wont play any ladder insane i got banned over this. i hope this dosent happen to anyone ever its fucking bullshit.
At first I kinda laughed remembering that famous twit from MajOr to Bly. After reading this I'm like "dafuq" - seriously, some kind of evidence would be nice or at least getting in touch with player before going to public?
On April 09 2016 23:21 DuckloadBlackra wrote: I hope you guys don't go and believe this instantly just because they said so. Let's wait for the evidence.
I also hope that you guys don't believe Major's cry "I am innocent!" instantly, especially knowing his past...
I am keeping my judgment for the later, when things settle.
This may very well be true. Or maybe it isn't. We'll just have to wait and see. Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say) and just wait for Blizzard to hopefully become a bit transparent on what's going on.
David Kim and his creative approach to balance. Kim Phan and her circus where shit happens and everyone is baffled about what's going on. What's with those Kims?
So, Blizzard, realizing they were bad at assuming the role of tournament organizers, decided to try their skill at assuming the role of corrupt policemen? I really don't know how you can be that incompetent, on all levels from managing WCS to map choice. Blizzard is starting to look like some sort of public company where no one ever gets fired even when being terribly terrible.
On April 09 2016 23:33 [PkF] Wire wrote: OK... Can we get any piece of evidence ? The lack of transparency is really disturbing...
I'd like to point out that we're not owed any piece of evidence, the process is between Blizzard/tournament organizers/players. We, the forum pleb, are not supposed to now every detail, a forum thread is not a trial.
That said, I think should be given at least the proof that these cases are conducted in total fairness and respect to the players and their rights and that we can trust the final decision, whatever it happens to be.
On April 09 2016 23:38 OtherWorld wrote: So, Blizzard, realizing they were bad at assuming the role of tournament organizers, decided to try their skill at assuming the role of corrupt policemen? I really don't know how you can be that incompetent, on all levels from managing WCS to map choice. Blizzard is starting to look like some sort of public company where no one ever gets fired even when being terribly terrible.
On April 09 2016 23:37 sd_andeh wrote: This may very well be true. Or maybe it isn't. We'll just have to wait and see. Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say) and just wait for Blizzard to hopefully become a bit transparent on what's going on.
Why should we believe the accuser more than the accused?
On April 09 2016 23:38 OtherWorld wrote: So, Blizzard, realizing they were bad at assuming the role of tournament organizers, decided to try their skill at assuming the role of corrupt policemen? I really don't know how you can be that incompetent, on all levels from managing WCS to map choice. Blizzard is starting to look like some sort of public company where no one ever gets fired even when being terribly terrible.
Sounds about right.
I'm just baffled with Blizzard recently.
They're taking on the role of tournament organizers and becoming foreigner KeSPA without being as good as the latter.
what happened to letting independent entities do their things with their tournaments?
they can just host a region locked wcs and that'll be their own thing. it'll be a good thing too, since it's a regional tournament going into an international event.
On April 09 2016 23:38 SmykuToronto wrote: David Kim and his creative approach to balance. Kim Phan and her circus where shit happens and everyone is baffled about what's going on. What's with those Kims?
Yeah, you're right, we should totally check if Kim Kardashian is not involved in this international conspiracy.
And that leads me to think... Bisu's real name is Kim Taek Yong, that's it! it's a plot to kill sc2 and increase BW streams audience.
We would never have discovered this without you, you're really a genius!
On April 09 2016 23:21 DuckloadBlackra wrote: I hope you guys don't go and believe this instantly just because they said so. Let's wait for the evidence.
I also hope that you guys don't believe Major's cry "I am innocent!" instantly, especially knowing his past...
I am keeping my judgment for the later, when things settle.
Okay so when there are so many problems already, the root of them is the system they use which is badly designed, and the second most affected are the viewers who have to watch inferior players :/.
On April 09 2016 23:38 OtherWorld wrote: So, Blizzard, realizing they were bad at assuming the role of tournament organizers, decided to try their skill at assuming the role of corrupt policemen? I really don't know how you can be that incompetent, on all levels from managing WCS to map choice. Blizzard is starting to look like some sort of public company where no one ever gets fired even when being terribly terrible.
You need fresh air, my friend. Isn't it sunny outisde atm? close that comp and go for a hike, I'd say
On April 09 2016 23:21 DuckloadBlackra wrote: I hope you guys don't go and believe this instantly just because they said so. Let's wait for the evidence.
I also hope that you guys don't believe Major's cry "I am innocent!" instantly, especially knowing his past...
I am keeping my judgment for the later, when things settle.
I remember Artosis saying that Major was just an immature 15y/o that needed time to grow up (haha). I guess this is what happens when your education is playing video games instead of school.
On April 09 2016 23:47 Poopi wrote: Okay so when there are so many problems already, the root of them is the system they use which is badly designed, and the second most affected are the viewers who have to watch inferior players :/.
No, we don't have to, we watch what we want, we're free.+ Show Spoiler +
there s enough sc2 Korean vods out there to make your week great, if that's what you're after...
On April 09 2016 23:38 OtherWorld wrote: So, Blizzard, realizing they were bad at assuming the role of tournament organizers, decided to try their skill at assuming the role of corrupt policemen? I really don't know how you can be that incompetent, on all levels from managing WCS to map choice. Blizzard is starting to look like some sort of public company where no one ever gets fired even when being terribly terrible.
You need fresh air, my friend. Isn't it sunny outisde atm? close that comp and go for a hike, I'd say
On April 09 2016 23:38 OtherWorld wrote: So, Blizzard, realizing they were bad at assuming the role of tournament organizers, decided to try their skill at assuming the role of corrupt policemen? I really don't know how you can be that incompetent, on all levels from managing WCS to map choice. Blizzard is starting to look like some sort of public company where no one ever gets fired even when being terribly terrible.
You need fresh air, my friend. Isn't it sunny outisde atm? close that comp and go for a hike, I'd say
Looks like we don't live in the same part of France d: I've been out all morning and I got kinda soaked in rain.
hey guys. i rarely post here. but lemme explain my situation. so i played this ladder just for fun just like i did last ladder on my other id mencemeat. so today my friend miniraiser sends a article on spanish about copa america in skype chat saying i was DQED from copa america for matchfixing on WCS Europe. so my first reaction was like he was to be trolling me, so i open it. and its true i get so confused on why so i go check my email in hope i get some explanation. nothing i did this because when DNS / Marinelord had this problem. they got an Email from blizzard to ask for the replaays. i got none So Moving on i want to clarifiy I DID NO MATCHFIX. i can give all my replays to blizzard if they want. Only thing i can find is suspicious is out of my 140games i think i played during the ladder i got about 6-10 early leave games vs different players. on top of my head i think i left vs zanster vs botvinik and vs lambo. 1 game each. there has to be more but i dont recall. now lemme tell u why i did this. its not because i was cheating its because i been sick last 5days so literally sometimes i would que the game and would start feeling bad so i would just leave and go laydown or go to the bathroom. so now if this is matchfixing. im ridicolously upset over this decision. consdiering the players that i think i supposedlty helped did not even qualify for the tournament and i had like a huge winrate vs them too 5-1 vs zanster i think 6-2 vs lambo like 7-1 vs botvinik. so how the fuck im matchfixining? i remember this clearly my last game of the ladder was vs zanster. i left immedatly cause i was feeling so bad just went to the bathroom and to sleep. this was atleast 4hours before the ladder lock. so if im being banned for giving zanster a free win 4hours before ladderlock cause im sick. than idk what to say. this is all my speculation ofcourse cause blizzard didnt even tell me the real reason. but as i said I DID NOT MATCHFIX edit: i got doctor note incase that helps in anything..
certainly fits the profile, after all he did cheat in a lowbob tournament already (using someone else's bnet acc to play).
can't say that i won't be happy if it turns out to be true. sick of that guy constantly crying, bitching & ruining teams. starcraft would be a better place without him.
On April 09 2016 23:57 Major wrote: hey guys. i rarely post here. but lemme explain my situation. so i played this ladder just for fun just like i did last ladder on my other id mencemeat. so today my friend miniraiser sends a article on spanish about copa america in skype chat saying i was DQED from copa america for matchfixing on WCS Europe. so my first reaction was like he was to be trolling me, so i open it. and its true i get so confused on why so i go check my email in hope i get some explanation. nothing i did this because when DNS / Marinelord had this problem. they got an Email from blizzard to ask for the replaays. i got none So Moving on i want to clarifiy I DID NO MATCHFIX. i can give all my replays to blizzard if they want. Only thing i can find is suspicious is out of my 140games i think i played during the ladder i got about 6-10 early leave games vs different players. on top of my head i think i left vs zanster vs botvinik and vs lambo. 1 game each. there has to be more but i dont recall. now lemme tell u why i did this. its not because i was cheating its because i been sick last 5days so literally sometimes i would que the game and would start feeling bad so i would just leave and go laydown or go to the bathroom. so now if this is matchfixing. im ridicolously upset over this decision. consdiering the players that i think i supposedlty helped did not even qualify for the tournament and i had like a huge winrate vs them too 5-1 vs zanster i think 6-2 vs lambo like 7-1 vs botvinik. so how the fuck im matchfixining? i remember this clearly my last game of the ladder was vs zanster. i left immedatly cause i was feeling so bad just went to the bathroom and to sleep. this was atleast 4hours before the ladder lock. so if im being banned for giving zanster a free win 4hours before ladderlock cause im sick. than idk what to say. this is all my speculation ofcourse cause blizzard didnt even tell me the real reason. but as i said I DID NOT MATCHFIX edit: i got doctor note incase that helps in anything..
Well I hope it will be sorted out, maybe it is just a missunderstanding.
On April 09 2016 23:37 sd_andeh wrote: This may very well be true. Or maybe it isn't. We'll just have to wait and see. Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say) and just wait for Blizzard to hopefully become a bit transparent on what's going on.
Why should we believe the accuser more than the accused?
Not saying that Major is guilty, but if you know his past you have to realize why we should believe more accuser than accused in this case.
On April 09 2016 23:56 Nerchio wrote: So it turns out I am the biggest saint in the scene
Nerchio biggest troll in the pro scene lol. Never change. ;D
On April 09 2016 23:57 Major wrote: hey guys. i rarely post here. but lemme explain my situation. so i played this ladder just for fun just like i did last ladder on my other id mencemeat. so today my friend miniraiser sends a article on spanish about copa america in skype chat saying i was DQED from copa america for matchfixing on WCS Europe. so my first reaction was like he was to be trolling me, so i open it. and its true i get so confused on why so i go check my email in hope i get some explanation. nothing i did this because when DNS / Marinelord had this problem. they got an Email from blizzard to ask for the replaays. i got none So Moving on i want to clarifiy I DID NO MATCHFIX. i can give all my replays to blizzard if they want. Only thing i can find is suspicious is out of my 140games i think i played during the ladder i got about 6-10 early leave games vs different players. on top of my head i think i left vs zanster vs botvinik and vs lambo. 1 game each. there has to be more but i dont recall. now lemme tell u why i did this. its not because i was cheating its because i been sick last 5days so literally sometimes i would que the game and would start feeling bad so i would just leave and go laydown or go to the bathroom. so now if this is matchfixing. im ridicolously upset over this decision. consdiering the players that i think i supposedlty helped did not even qualify for the tournament and i had like a huge winrate vs them too 5-1 vs zanster i think 6-2 vs lambo like 7-1 vs botvinik. so how the fuck im matchfixining? i remember this clearly my last game of the ladder was vs zanster. i left immedatly cause i was feeling so bad just went to the bathroom and to sleep. this was atleast 4hours before the ladder lock. so if im being banned for giving zanster a free win 4hours before ladderlock cause im sick. than idk what to say. this is all my speculation ofcourse cause blizzard didnt even tell me the real reason. but as i said I DID NOT MATCHFIX edit: i got doctor note incase that helps in anything..
Well I hope it will be sorted out, maybe it is just a missunderstanding.
what really is disturbing is. i dont even get contacted by blizzard about this..
On April 09 2016 23:47 Poopi wrote: Okay so when there are so many problems already, the root of them is the system they use which is badly designed, and the second most affected are the viewers who have to watch inferior players :/.
No, we don't have to, we watch what we want, we're free.+ Show Spoiler +
there s enough sc2 Korean vods out there to make your week great, if that's what you're after...
It's implicit that IF you watch the event you HAVE to watch other players, of course you can watch whatever you want it's obvious.
Korean vods aren't so interesting since HotS/Kespa, korean sc2 during Mvp's era was nicer to watch.
I would not have watched Copa America but for those who do they probably would have liked to see MajOr vs Kelazhur but they can't now, and we could not watch DnS or MLorD yesterday, etc...
On April 09 2016 23:37 sd_andeh wrote: This may very well be true. Or maybe it isn't. We'll just have to wait and see. Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say) and just wait for Blizzard to hopefully become a bit transparent on what's going on.
Why should we believe the accuser more than the accused?
Not saying that Major is guilty, but if you know his past you have to realize why we should believe more accuser than accused in this case.
very easy to accuse anyone when he cant even defend himself. if u read my post thats exactly what happened.
On April 09 2016 23:37 sd_andeh wrote: This may very well be true. Or maybe it isn't. We'll just have to wait and see. Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say) and just wait for Blizzard to hopefully become a bit transparent on what's going on.
Why should we believe the accuser more than the accused?
Not saying that Major is guilty, but if you know his past you have to realize why we should believe more accuser than accused in this case.
very easy to accuse anyone when he cant even defend himself. if u read my post thats exactly what happened.
why should you be given benefit of the doubt as you've done sleazy things close to this level in the past?
On April 09 2016 23:57 Major wrote: hey guys. i rarely post here. but lemme explain my situation. so i played this ladder just for fun just like i did last ladder on my other id mencemeat. so today my friend miniraiser sends a article on spanish about copa america in skype chat saying i was DQED from copa america for matchfixing on WCS Europe. so my first reaction was like he was to be trolling me, so i open it. and its true i get so confused on why so i go check my email in hope i get some explanation. nothing i did this because when DNS / Marinelord had this problem. they got an Email from blizzard to ask for the replaays. i got none So Moving on i want to clarifiy I DID NO MATCHFIX. i can give all my replays to blizzard if they want. Only thing i can find is suspicious is out of my 140games i think i played during the ladder i got about 6-10 early leave games vs different players. on top of my head i think i left vs zanster vs botvinik and vs lambo. 1 game each. there has to be more but i dont recall. now lemme tell u why i did this. its not because i was cheating its because i been sick last 5days so literally sometimes i would que the game and would start feeling bad so i would just leave and go laydown or go to the bathroom. so now if this is matchfixing. im ridicolously upset over this decision. consdiering the players that i think i supposedlty helped did not even qualify for the tournament and i had like a huge winrate vs them too 5-1 vs zanster i think 6-2 vs lambo like 7-1 vs botvinik. so how the fuck im matchfixining? i remember this clearly my last game of the ladder was vs zanster. i left immedatly cause i was feeling so bad just went to the bathroom and to sleep. this was atleast 4hours before the ladder lock. so if im being banned for giving zanster a free win 4hours before ladderlock cause im sick. than idk what to say. this is all my speculation ofcourse cause blizzard didnt even tell me the real reason. but as i said I DID NOT MATCHFIX edit: i got doctor note incase that helps in anything..
what really is disturbing is. i dont even get contacted by blizzard about this.. [/QUOTE]
That is the bad part. I mean if Blizzard thinks you did bad then they should have Contacted you. Mlord and Dns got contacted by them. Maybe you should send them replays the way Bunny did it. He got cleared.
This seems ridiculous. No solid proof, players are being DQed due to an ongoing investigation. So what? If it is found that they weren't involved, they just miss out on the tournament? In Majors case this is a very likely seed to the Spring Championship and $4000...
I really hope there is some solid proof, but from Majors statement it doesn't seem like there is which is extremely concerning. The real issue really does come where if these guys are found innocent, then they just missed out on their tournaments and there is nothing that can be done for them. That would be extremely unfair. I guess we have to wait and see what comes of this.
On April 09 2016 23:37 sd_andeh wrote: This may very well be true. Or maybe it isn't. We'll just have to wait and see. Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say) and just wait for Blizzard to hopefully become a bit transparent on what's going on.
Why should we believe the accuser more than the accused?
Not saying that Major is guilty, but if you know his past you have to realize why we should believe more accuser than accused in this case.
That's the wrong way to make justice. You shouldn't judge people, you should judge facts. I'm no MajOr fan (in fact I'm pretty sure he did insult me in the past), but what he did in the past is irrelevant to the current case.
On April 09 2016 23:57 Major wrote: hey guys. i rarely post here. but lemme explain my situation. so i played this ladder just for fun just like i did last ladder on my other id mencemeat. so today my friend miniraiser sends a article on spanish about copa america in skype chat saying i was DQED from copa america for matchfixing on WCS Europe. so my first reaction was like he was to be trolling me, so i open it. and its true i get so confused on why so i go check my email in hope i get some explanation. nothing i did this because when DNS / Marinelord had this problem. they got an Email from blizzard to ask for the replaays. i got none So Moving on i want to clarifiy I DID NO MATCHFIX. i can give all my replays to blizzard if they want. Only thing i can find is suspicious is out of my 140games i think i played during the ladder i got about 6-10 early leave games vs different players. on top of my head i think i left vs zanster vs botvinik and vs lambo. 1 game each. there has to be more but i dont recall. now lemme tell u why i did this. its not because i was cheating its because i been sick last 5days so literally sometimes i would que the game and would start feeling bad so i would just leave and go laydown or go to the bathroom. so now if this is matchfixing. im ridicolously upset over this decision. consdiering the players that i think i supposedlty helped did not even qualify for the tournament and i had like a huge winrate vs them too 5-1 vs zanster i think 6-2 vs lambo like 7-1 vs botvinik. so how the fuck im matchfixining? i remember this clearly my last game of the ladder was vs zanster. i left immedatly cause i was feeling so bad just went to the bathroom and to sleep. this was atleast 4hours before the ladder lock. so if im being banned for giving zanster a free win 4hours before ladderlock cause im sick. than idk what to say. this is all my speculation ofcourse cause blizzard didnt even tell me the real reason. but as i said I DID NOT MATCHFIX edit: i got doctor note incase that helps in anything..
Of all the things that lead someone to quit a game, diarrhoea never came to my mind, thx for this.
Seriously I hope you'll get well soon and that you'll be given the real reasons behind your disqualification, that they will make sense and that you'll be redeemed if they don't.
On April 09 2016 23:37 sd_andeh wrote: This may very well be true. Or maybe it isn't. We'll just have to wait and see. Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say) and just wait for Blizzard to hopefully become a bit transparent on what's going on.
Why should we believe the accuser more than the accused?
Not saying that Major is guilty, but if you know his past you have to realize why we should believe more accuser than accused in this case.
very easy to accuse anyone when he cant even defend himself. if u read my post thats exactly what happened.
why should you be given benefit of the doubt as you've done sleazy things close to this level in the past?
Because it would be fucking idiotic on principle to let it go without demanding any kind of proof or transparancy?
On April 10 2016 00:16 WrathSCII wrote: If Blizzard announced he match fixed, then they must have some solid proof. Anyway, lets speculate who will be next.
"If our Holy Guide said that this man should be put to death, then he must have a good reason. Let's do this."
On April 10 2016 00:16 WrathSCII wrote: If Blizzard announced he match fixed, then they must have some solid proof. Anyway, lets speculate who will be next.
so next time u get accused of murder they must have solid proof so lext move on to next case? yes thats how it should work.
Honestly as soon as it's on ladder and not a qualifier bracket, you cannot be as harsh, odds are people just play oblivious to the tournament scene, or people just simply want the extra practice that is around this time. There should be drawn a line somewhere though, this just seems a bit silly.
Honestly I always thought tying WCS to the ladder was a bad idea just because of this. This sort of stuff always happened when ladders were made for qualifying, let alone just open battlenet. (see TSL2 on ICcup)
The problem is that anything at all can look suspicious but it doesn't mean anything. If you watch any streamer, they will sometimes just leave games for a variety of reasons. "I beat this guy way too much and I don't want to play him again." "This guy has beat me way to much and I don't want to play him again." "I am totally sick of this matchup I don't want to play it again." "I got this map 10X in a row I don't want to play it again."
I honestly do not believe that any real match trading went on. People get salty at each other in games because they loose, and complain to Blizzard about things. In this age of email and texts and skype conversations are you REALLY going to wintrade with someone who could just turn around and publish your conversations? This is kinna silly to just come out and say with no evidence.
I back Major 100% and am looking forward to seeing what this is actually all about.
On April 10 2016 00:16 WrathSCII wrote: If Blizzard announced he match fixed, then they must have some solid proof. Anyway, lets speculate who will be next.
"If our Holy Guide said that this man should be put to death, then he must have a good reason. Let's do this."
I don't think a major corporation would just be like "hm... he left a game after 2 minutes... MATCH FIX, BAN HURR DURR". It is true that it is frustrating that we did not get any details on whats going on. But I also believe they have some kind of solid proof. Why singling out major?
It is pretty ridiculous that you can forfeit games at a tournament without being DQ'd, but when playing a ladder competition, where it's more likely that you'll forfeit some games (playing many more games of much less importance), you automatically get DQ'd if you forfeit.
I've posted this in like 3 different threads and it never gets any attention, but the fact is that this whole ladder qualifier format is complete shit and doesn't accomplish anything. I'm not sure what the architects of this format were trying to do (create better practice environment? improve the ladder? just give some variety in ways to qualify?) but they've added absolutely no value. In fact that's all they've done is introduce a very problematic method of qualifying. It is a similar situation to tournament formats that can result in meaningless games being played. It's an inferior format that simply shouldn't be used.
This is pretty absurd. Blizzards guilty till proven innocent technique here is pretty bad. Each DQ is a paycheck gone bye for these players. They should have strong evidence before this occurs.
There can be many reasons why someone would leave games instantly like lag, telephone, remembering you have something to do or like in this case you're just not feeling good. Banning someone just because he left games early seems ridicolous.
On April 10 2016 00:16 WrathSCII wrote: If Blizzard announced he match fixed, then they must have some solid proof. Anyway, lets speculate who will be next.
so next time u get accused of murder they must have solid proof so lext move on to next case? yes thats how it should work.
I understand your frustration... No, in fact, I do not. I was never accused of something like this in my life so I don't know how it feels. All I can say is try to think from their perspective and keep trying to get info from them on why this happened. That is all I can say.
guys. im so sad that i dont even have a way to defend myself... take in note i was notified by a friend that saw the message on an spanish publication. extremly dissapointed be in this position been playing 5years sc2 and never been called a matchfixer. extremly sad especially cause i had anything to gain from this nothing
apparently he was banned because blizzard don't like and want to much terran-.- as always... very sad because he is a good terran which is indeed rare in non-korea-.-
On April 09 2016 23:33 [PkF] Wire wrote: OK... Can we get any piece of evidence ? The lack of transparency is really disturbing...
I'd like to point out that we're not owed any piece of evidence, the process is between Blizzard/tournament organizers/players. We, the forum pleb, are not supposed to now every detail, a forum thread is not a trial.
That said, I think should be given at least the proof that these cases are conducted in total fairness and respect to the players and their rights and that we can trust the final decision, whatever it happens to be.
On April 10 2016 00:24 NonY wrote: It is pretty ridiculous that you can forfeit games at a tournament without being DQ'd, but when playing a ladder competition, where it's more likely that you'll forfeit some games (playing many more games of much less importance), you automatically get DQ'd if you forfeit.
I've posted this in like 3 different threads and it never gets any attention, but the fact is that this whole ladder qualifier format is complete shit and doesn't accomplish anything. I'm not sure what the architects of this format were trying to do (create better practice environment? improve the ladder? just give some variety in ways to qualify?) but they've added absolutely no value. In fact that's all they've done is introduce a very problematic method of qualifying. It is a similar situation to tournament formats that can result in meaningless games being played. It's an inferior format that simply shouldn't be used.
Good suggestion in the other thread. This way if you are away for 1-2 weeks you can still be in it by performing well in the rest of the time and there is a constant incentive to play.
I was watching this ladder competition closely. I do believe Major in what he is saying and I don't think there was intentional foul play on his part. Having said that, he did "interfere" with the competition by taking points from some players and later giving some to others for "free" about 1-2 hours before lockdown. I think Major and Naniva as ineligible players should have stayed out of this, knowing their actions have positive or detrimental impact on some players results - its a matter of good manners to say the least. However there was nothing in the rules against it and the organization of the competition is not without fault here.
On April 10 2016 00:40 Kafka777 wrote: I was watching this ladder competition closely. I do believe Major in what he is saying and I don't think there was intentional foul play on his part. Having said that, he did "interfere" with the competition by taking points from some players and later giving some to others for "free" about 1-2 hours before lockdown. I think Major and Naniva as ineligible players should have stayed out of this, knowing their actions have positive or detrimental impact on some players results - its a matter of good manners to say the least. However there was nothing in the rules against it and the organization of the competition is not without fault here.
i was just looking for practice. but yes my leave againts zanster 4hour before the ladderlock was probably the biggest one i can think but still is 4hours. before the lock.. 4hours is alot of time to win / lose alot of games and i did not do in maliciously i was legit in need of going to bathroom.
Sorry i just cannot think of a reaction that is more appropriate than untamed laughing. No matter if Major indeed fixed or Blizzard yolod once more, this is plainly ridiculous. Why would Major fix in such a weak tournament? Why would Blizzard ban Major if he didnt fix?
Regardless of Major's explanation, Blizzard should go for the standard tournament qualifiers like Dreamhack and other tournaments. It takes more time but less gimmicks.
On April 10 2016 00:40 Kafka777 wrote: I was watching this ladder competition closely. I do believe Major in what he is saying and I don't think there was intentional foul play on his part. Having said that, he did "interfere" with the competition by taking points from some players and later giving some to others for "free" about 1-2 hours before lockdown. I think Major and Naniva as ineligible players should have stayed out of this, knowing their actions have positive or detrimental impact on some players results - its a matter of good manners to say the least. However there was nothing in the rules against it and the organization of the competition is not without fault here.
i was just looking for practice. but yes my leave againts zanster 4hour before the ladderlock was probably the biggest one i can think but still is 4hours. before the lock.. 4hours is alot of time to win / lose alot of games and i did not do in maliciously i was legit in need of going to bathroom.
They should have warned you, make some announcement to all ladder players that their activity on the last day of ladder sprint will be closely monitored and warning them that on this day, any suspicious activity can lead to a disqualification.
THEN, AFTER MAKING SUCH AN ANNOUNCEMENT, they could start any actions. Not retrospectively and even without ANY communication!
On April 10 2016 00:41 Diabolique wrote: How can Major be DQ-d from Copa America, which has nothing to do with the Tours WCS or European ladder points?
They could argue, that if he felt sick and bad, he should not have started the games at all.
But they MUST COMMUNICATE AND DISCUSS IT WITH MAJOR!!!! No communication in these cases is a sign of an absolute amateurship!
Copa America is the Latin American qualifier for Dreamhack Tours, which means that it does have to do with EU ladder in the end.
This apparent lack of communication with MajOr is very disturbing, I hope his team is looking into it along with him. Since apparently the other players who were DQ'd at least were contacted about it.
Its so pathetic. Comparing the reactions on both threads i can see how a sizeable (or maybe more vocal) part of the community is just trying to defend the players they like and attack the one they dislike, not really caring about what is fair, who is gulty or whatever. One is defended, other is attacked. Same lack of evidence but only MajOr claimed to be innocent.
I believe MajOr until its proven otherwise. As for MarineLorD, i feel bad for him, but he must be punished if he is guilty.
Not at all surprised this clown is involved in stuff like this. He was gonna skip the event anyways with his pathetic excuses like always. He's the most unprofessional player in the professional scene, and he has had this coming for years - finally he faces som actual consequences for his retarded behavior. He knows how important ladder-games are in that week-window where people try and get qualified, so why the fuck would he even try to queue up if he "felt sick" SEVERAL times? Either he's extremely stupid or else he blatantly cheated. Well, he is most definitely the former and more than likely the latter, too.
The ladder system is really stupid. For fuck sake they have AUTOMATED TOURNAMENTS ON BATTLE.NET ! Just let play the top X player on a online tournament on battle.net for qualifying...
Not with the actual system but they just could do it instead of : "I'm going to log in 4h before ladder lock and play like a motherfucker to get top 16 because the others are sleeping or stuffff like that'
Eh this is pretty crazy. It's actually pretty sad because it shows whoever is making this call does not give a shit about being fair to the players. The fact that they didn't even communicate to Major shows that he has very very little importance to them.
I like the ladder system but it would work better if people were honest and not stupid. In like 5 years of me playing ladder all the time it happened maybe up to 10 times where I left early.
On April 10 2016 00:31 otzowski wrote: apparently he was banned because blizzard don't like and want to much terran-.- as always... very sad because he is a good terran which is indeed rare in non-korea-.-
That's one of the dumber accusations I've read so far
You people don't actually believe that Major got banned because Blizzard felt like it, do you? We can't immediately assume that they're correct, but speculating that Blizzard is straight up lying to the community like this is absurd.
On April 10 2016 01:06 lamehater wrote: You people don't actually believe that Major got banned because Blizzard felt like it, do you? We can't immediately assume that they're correct, but speculating that Blizzard is straight up lying to the community like this is absurd.
As much as I know Major's shitty past what he said makes sense. If Ladder games is taken seriously now and players aren't allowed to leave early because they have other shit to attend to or because their sick then something is wrong with the system. At least let them be aware of such policy. This isn't like an offline tournament and no player in their right mind ever treated it that way. I know there have been plenty of situations of players leaving tournaments early online and they want to discourage it from happening. Context is important.
Do you earn money if you qualify through ladder? Its like a tournament then. If you lose a match at a tournament, you are out as well. Any kind of cheating is punished at a tournament, its just fair, its the same if you qualify through ladder.
How about people who wintrade for fun? We always wanted that ladder matters but havent thought about this problem. It doesnt work if we dont distinguish between players who try to qualify and players who are gm but play the game for fun. Otherwise there are huge problems:
If i hate/love someone, i can queue up against him and lose intentionally (to let it look like cheating/because i want him to qualify).
ok guys. so after pulling some strings ive finally made my way to contact kim phan on the phone which later contacted me with someone by the name of adren im really dissapointed. here is what happened:
So 4hours i think before the ladder ended i had 2 games vs lambo one on dusk and one on prion. one i left immediatly after i qued to go take my medicine and to the bathroom(wasnt feeling to well as already mentioned)since i forgotten to take it. and than we played again on prion and i lost i did a proxy reaper didnt work tried 1base banshee didnt work game went on for like 10mins and i lost. so those games are the suspicious ones are they suspcious? ofcourse they are if you just look at them without asking or knowing they fucking suspicious. but take in mind its 4hour before ladder lock ends and i didnt do it malisioucly at fucking all. also this same day i went like 6-2 vs lambo counting those game so if anything i took more points from him than he won from those 2games. this is one of their reasons.
2nd one is I used to left marinelord play on my account (mencemeat) and i played on his barcode take in mind this is outside of the ladder qualification so even tho its againts the rules to share account. EVERY SINGLE PROGAMER SHARES ACCOUNTS for practice purposes in korea everyone do it in foriegern scene too. if we gonna ban ppl for sharing accounts we will not have a pro scene anymore
im extremly upset im being called a cheater a scum oversomething like that that really had not even impact on the outcome of the competition and was not done malisioculy.
i did not try to help lambo qualify.
btw as my final word i asked so this mean i cant play copa america and im banned from tours completly? and hes responded to me there is a sligth chance u can play server qualifers but unlikely so there you go guys. reason im being possibly banned from tours and def from this season of copa america is because i left 1 game vs lambo 4hours before ladderlock. next time i wont play any ladder insane i got banned over this. i hope this dosent happen to anyone ever its fucking bullshit.
On April 10 2016 00:40 Kafka777 wrote: I was watching this ladder competition closely. I do believe Major in what he is saying and I don't think there was intentional foul play on his part. Having said that, he did "interfere" with the competition by taking points from some players and later giving some to others for "free" about 1-2 hours before lockdown. I think Major and Naniva as ineligible players should have stayed out of this, knowing their actions have positive or detrimental impact on some players results - its a matter of good manners to say the least. However there was nothing in the rules against it and the organization of the competition is not without fault here.
i was just looking for practice. but yes my leave againts zanster 4hour before the ladderlock was probably the biggest one i can think but still is 4hours. before the lock.. 4hours is alot of time to win / lose alot of games and i did not do in maliciously i was legit in need of going to bathroom.
They should have warned you, make some announcement to all ladder players that their activity on the last day of ladder sprint will be closely monitored and warning them that on this day, any suspicious activity can lead to a disqualification.
THEN, AFTER MAKING SUCH AN ANNOUNCEMENT, they could start any actions. Not retrospectively and even without ANY communication!
I am sure there are already rules in place.
Also i wouldnt just trust major. He seems like a person who lies to look good, when he has done something wrong.
On April 09 2016 23:25 Mangooza wrote: Haha. If you play ladder nowadays as a pro, you better not leave any games or do weird all ins or you'll be out of a job.
Just pretend you don't see the clearly visible proxy hatch outside your base, and you'll be guaranteed to be forgiven.
But honestly, this is the right thing for Blizzard to do. If you want SC2 to be taken seriously, players need to take it seriously. You don't play when you're really sick, just like we don't see athletes trying to play hurt.
Sure, some athletes play with an injury, but knowing when you can and can't play is important. It is part of competition.
And if we want people to see E-Sport players as legitimate, then the players need to compete seriously.
On April 09 2016 23:25 Mangooza wrote: Haha. If you play ladder nowadays as a pro, you better not leave any games or do weird all ins or you'll be out of a job.
Just pretend you don't see the clearly visible proxy hatch outside your base, and you'll be guaranteed to be forgiven.
Is it really that time of the month again where we accuse MarineKing of matchfixing?
Not to mention, even after the investigation was done and they didn't find any evidence of his guilt, people still to this day talk about him like he's 100% guilty. So no, that doesn't earn forgiveness.
And I'm just saying that whether or not Major was doing something devious, it is abundantly clear a precedent was set that ignorance, whether it is intentional or not, is a valid excuse based on the MKP situation. Though, I disagree it should be.
And that is what he should have done, just played ignorantly.
On April 09 2016 23:25 Mangooza wrote: Haha. If you play ladder nowadays as a pro, you better not leave any games or do weird all ins or you'll be out of a job.
Just pretend you don't see the clearly visible proxy hatch outside your base, and you'll be guaranteed to be forgiven.
But honestly, this is the right thing for Blizzard to do. If you want SC2 to be taken seriously, players need to take it seriously. You don't play when you're really sick, just like we don't see athletes trying to play hurt.
Sure, some athletes play with an injury, but knowing when you can and can't play is important. It is part of competition.
One player, Mvp. One more player MMA. One more player Flash. The list goes on and on.
When Blizzard has created a situation so messy and ugly that a professional player of THIER OWN GAME has to come onto a fansite as the only tangible medium of PR and name smear control. For an incident that seems to have been basically a false alarm on their end and they pulled the trigger too early.
I am a huge Blizzard fan in general but this is truly a shit show on their end, I am disgusted.
On April 10 2016 01:53 BronzeKnee wrote: I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't play when you are sick.
But if you are so sick you can't play, then you don't queue up.
but what about the other 120 games i played? just cause 1 or 2 games i didnt feel to well dosent mean i cant play at all its was ladder for me afterall.
On April 09 2016 23:25 Mangooza wrote: Haha. If you play ladder nowadays as a pro, you better not leave any games or do weird all ins or you'll be out of a job.
Just pretend you don't see the clearly visible proxy hatch outside your base, and you'll be guaranteed to be forgiven.
But honestly, this is the right thing for Blizzard to do. If you want SC2 to be taken seriously, players need to take it seriously. You don't play when you're really sick, just like we don't see athletes trying to play hurt.
Sure, some athletes play with an injury, but knowing when you can and can't play is important. It is part of competition.
One player, Mvp. One more player MMA. One more player Flash. The list goes on and on.
Well, I'm not sure if they're examples, considering both Mvp and FlaSh had really heavy health problems. If we could not import the "athletes destroying their bodies for passion and glory" bit of sports into eSports, it would be cool.
On April 10 2016 00:40 Kafka777 wrote: I was watching this ladder competition closely. I do believe Major in what he is saying and I don't think there was intentional foul play on his part. Having said that, he did "interfere" with the competition by taking points from some players and later giving some to others for "free" about 1-2 hours before lockdown. I think Major and Naniva as ineligible players should have stayed out of this, knowing their actions have positive or detrimental impact on some players results - its a matter of good manners to say the least. However there was nothing in the rules against it and the organization of the competition is not without fault here.
i was just looking for practice. but yes my leave againts zanster 4hour before the ladderlock was probably the biggest one i can think but still is 4hours. before the lock.. 4hours is alot of time to win / lose alot of games and i did not do in maliciously i was legit in need of going to bathroom.
They should have warned you, make some announcement to all ladder players that their activity on the last day of ladder sprint will be closely monitored and warning them that on this day, any suspicious activity can lead to a disqualification.
THEN, AFTER MAKING SUCH AN ANNOUNCEMENT, they could start any actions. Not retrospectively and even without ANY communication!
I am sure there are already rules in place.
Also i wouldnt just trust major. He seems like a person who lies to look good, when he has done something wrong.
EDIT: Like many other people.
Of course they have some rules in place. I meant specifically Major's case. After he did this suspicious thing, they should have contacted him, warned him that any next time, he will be DQ-ed for something like this, make an official public announcement to all players that any suspicious activity will be prosecuted. Then, every their future action would be reasonable.
Of course, whatever has been done, Major will tell you an explanation "I needed to take the pill next minute and forgot to take it the minute before start of the game" bla bla bla ... bullshit ... he could have "played" for fun with the ladder, influencing it in the moments of desperate situation for many players ... it is not nice, but I do not think, he wanted to help / damage some specific players.
The problem in this case was no communication before he was DQ-d and, eventually solving it by some "last warning" and public announcement warning everybody to take ladder in these days as seriously as some top offline tournament.
On April 09 2016 23:37 sd_andeh wrote: This may very well be true. Or maybe it isn't. We'll just have to wait and see. Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say) and just wait for Blizzard to hopefully become a bit transparent on what's going on.
Why should we believe the accuser more than the accused?
Not saying that Major is guilty, but if you know his past you have to realize why we should believe more accuser than accused in this case.
very easy to accuse anyone when he cant even defend himself. if u read my post thats exactly what happened.
why should you be given benefit of the doubt as you've done sleazy things close to this level in the past?
This is stupid logic. Everyone needs to be given benefit of doubt. You are part of the problem - assuming he is guilty instead of demanding evidence. It's okay to have your own personal bias, but the past is no way to determine whether someone is guilty in the present. It's simply more incentive to investigate further.
On April 10 2016 01:53 BronzeKnee wrote: I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't play when you are sick.
But if you are so sick you can't play, then you don't queue up.
but what about the other 120 games i played? just cause 1 or 2 games i didnt feel to well dosent mean i cant play at all its was ladder for me afterall.
Because then there is a loophole for someone, "well my friend doesn't have a spot yet, I'll queue up with him and say I was sick and give him free wins."
I'm not saying you did that. But that loophole can't exist, because it could be exploited. And even being punished like this isn't worse than losing a spot you earned because someone was match fixing.
And it isn't professional. Ladder isn't just practice anymore, so if you want to practice when you are sick play custom games or something.
On April 10 2016 00:49 Superbanana wrote: Its so pathetic. Comparing the reactions on both threads i can see how a sizeable (or maybe more vocal) part of the community is just trying to defend the players they like and attack the one they dislike, not really caring about what is fair, who is gulty or whatever. One is defended, other is attacked. Same lack of evidence but only MajOr claimed to be innocent.
I believe MajOr until its proven otherwise. As for MarineLorD, i feel bad for him, but he must be punished if he is guilty.
The community is entitled to its opinion. Whatever we believe or who we side with is not really important. I won't even start a debate about how bad a ladder based qualification probably is (but yeah I tend to agree with Nony).
What is the source of tension and all the drama is how badly and differently Blizzard handles the issues and how to communicate about them. Bly lost on purpose and arranged its seed in previous WCS season? No problem. Mlord and DnS cheat the system? Insta-DQ without much showing evidence (is it that hard to try to be transparent?). Bunny has some suspicious wins around the time of lock? Blizzard says nothing, Bunny has to go out of his way to explain what happened (props to him, but it should have been up to Blizzard to do the comment). Major has suspicious behaviour? Insta-DQ without event asking the player.
Blizzard's behaviour is inconsistent and messy, their communication is pretty terrible and parasited by the players'. There is obviously something wrong at Blizzard, some people there are NOT doing their job. And I mean the ones who make the call and write what they report to the players and/or the community. If they want to do the ruling in WCS, fine by me but they should not do it half-assedly. I don't know, it is that hard to try to follow a sensible protocol for starters? Such as: - contact players investigated - investigate and tell them to shut up in the mean time - once it's settled, make the call, write the statement to the community and provide some evidence
On April 10 2016 01:44 Major wrote: 2nd one is I used to left marinelord play on my account (mencemeat) and i played on his barcode take in mind this is outside of the ladder qualification so even tho its againts the rules to share account. EVERY SINGLE PROGAMER SHARES ACCOUNTS for practice purposes in korea everyone do it in foriegern scene too. if we gonna ban ppl for sharing accounts we will not have a pro scene anymore
Dont make excuses like everybody does it, why cant i do it. Children say the same. Something isnt right, just because everybody does it.
You traded more than 1 win in a short period and thats suspicious. Why would you risk everything? After the first loss, why did you queue again? Werent you sure if you are sick or not?
Can you prove that you acted on ladder as usual? Do you loss intentionally games?
Also you earn money, its worth something. They give you an opportunity, no one else does. Why would you risk that? Dont break rules, no matter what! They dont ask you to climb the everest. Their rules are easy to keep. If you want to play at the tournament, hold the rules!
Account sharing is against TOS, to say every pro player should be banned is weak imo. Take the punishment and beg for another shot at server qualifiers.
Even if it is bullshit and the games were not directly impacting the ladder qualification, you still admit guilt to sharing accounts, so what is blizzard supposed to do, say that's okay and reverse the decision? Everyone has known account sharing is agaisnt the rules for years, yet "all" progamers do it anyway apprently, that disrespectful.
what are the implications of sharing an account with someone because you said that is the reason they banned you. i guess if you had multiple IPs playing on your account during the ladder period then it would stand out
Because then there is a loophole for someone, "well my friend doesn't have a spot yet, I'll queue up with him and say I was sick and give him free wins."
I'm not saying you did that. But that loophole can't exist, and could be exploited.
And it isn't professional.
If a professional Olympic rower were home one day, if they were sick should they not be allowed to work out or do anything productive? Like you are sick you should not work out that is unprofessional.
Major is a professional Starcraft2 player, he should have the full right to practice his craft however he chooses to. The ladder is only way one can practice Starcraft2.
Obviously is a ladder competition is underway he should be aware and it should factor into how many games he is willing to leave early (even if that would be his behavior normally regardless of the competition).
But based on his accounts of the events (assuming the numbers and facts he have provided are 100% accurate) it sounds like he was just practicing his profession one day like he would any other day, and then ban banned.
On April 10 2016 01:53 BronzeKnee wrote: I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't play when you are sick.
But if you are so sick you can't play, then you don't queue up.
but what about the other 120 games i played? just cause 1 or 2 games i didnt feel to well dosent mean i cant play at all its was ladder for me afterall.
Because then there is a loophole for someone, "well my friend doesn't have a spot yet, I'll queue up with him and say I was sick and give him free wins."
I'm not saying you did that. But that loophole can't exist, because it could be exploited.
And it isn't professional. Ladder isn't just practice anymore, so if you want to practice when you are sick play custom games or something.
Well, if he can prove that he took more points from Lambo than Lambo gained and that this free win occurred well before the ladder lock, doesn't that easily refute this part of Blizzard's argument?
Because then there is a loophole for someone, "well my friend doesn't have a spot yet, I'll queue up with him and say I was sick and give him free wins."
I'm not saying you did that. But that loophole can't exist, and could be exploited.
And it isn't professional.
If a professional Olympic rower were home one day, if they were sick should they not be allowed to work out or do anything productive? Like you are sick you should not work out that is unprofessional.
Major is a professional Starcraft2 player, he should have the full right to practice his craft however he chooses to. The ladder is only way one can practice Starcraft2.
Obviously is a ladder competition is underway he should be aware and it should factor into how many games he is willing to leave early (even if that would be his behavior normally regardless of the competition).
But based on his accounts of the events (assuming the numbers and facts he have provided are 100% accurate) it sounds like he was just practicing his profession one day like he would any other day, and then ban banned.
As I said before, ladder isn't practice anymore. Play custom games against practice partners or something if you are sick.
The sick rower can work out all he wants in practice, but no spectator or competitor wants someone to show up and then give up immediately because they sick.
That isn't the reason people play, or watch sports.
So that behavior must have consequences if any sport is to be taken seriously. If that rower shows up sick and lines up against someone, and then gives up when the races starts and lets the other guy win, it could be very easily be perceived as match fixing when he had a choice not to compete.
On April 10 2016 00:49 Superbanana wrote: Its so pathetic. Comparing the reactions on both threads i can see how a sizeable (or maybe more vocal) part of the community is just trying to defend the players they like and attack the one they dislike, not really caring about what is fair, who is gulty or whatever. One is defended, other is attacked. Same lack of evidence but only MajOr claimed to be innocent.
I believe MajOr until its proven otherwise. As for MarineLorD, i feel bad for him, but he must be punished if he is guilty.
The community is entitled to its opinion. Whatever we believe or who we side with is not really important. I won't even start a debate about how bad a ladder based qualification probably is (but yeah I tend to agree with Nony).
What is the source of tension and all the drama is how badly and differently Blizzard handles the issues and how to communicate about them. Bly lost on purpose and arranged its seed in previous WCS season? No problem. Mlord and DnS cheat the system? Insta-DQ without much showing evidence (is it that hard to try to be transparent?). Bunny has some suspicious wins around the time of lock? Blizzard says nothing, Bunny has to go out of his way to explain what happened (props to him, but it should have been up to Blizzard to do the comment). Major has suspicious behaviour? Insta-DQ without event asking the player.
Blizzard's behaviour is inconsistent and messy, their communication is pretty terrible and parasited by the players'. There is obviously something wrong at Blizzard, some people there are NOT doing their job. And I mean the ones who make the call and write what they report to the players and/or the community. If they want to do the ruling in WCS, fine by me but they should not do it half-assedly. I don't know, it is that hard to try to follow a sensible protocol for starters? Such as: - contact players investigated - investigate and tell them to shut up in the mean time - once it's settled, make the call, write the statement to the community and provide some evidence
Blizzard doesnt need to show you evidence. Its only between the player and blizzard. Also players have most certainly the rules already. If not you can be assure that the rules of last year count.
If proplayer received the rules after blys action, then thats the point when the rules count.
I have no idea why this community thinks, blizzards need to inform anybody about anything. Are you doing the same in real life?
Also ladder qualification wanted the community. Not blizzard. But i am sure, you will now say, that they shouldnt do what the community says. Either way you will always find a way to blame blizzard.
On April 10 2016 02:05 FFGenerations wrote: what are the implications of sharing an account with someone because you said that is the reason they banned you. i guess if you had multiple IPs playing on your account during the ladder period then it would stand out
actually not really. last time i played on marinelord barcode was like 3months ago. so its really weak to say i got banned cause of that
On April 10 2016 01:44 Major wrote: 2nd one is I used to left marinelord play on my account (mencemeat) and i played on his barcode take in mind this is outside of the ladder qualification so even tho its againts the rules to share account. EVERY SINGLE PROGAMER SHARES ACCOUNTS for practice purposes in korea everyone do it in foriegern scene too. if we gonna ban ppl for sharing accounts we will not have a pro scene anymore
Can you prove that you acted on ladder as usual? Do you loss intentionally games?
The way justice was made in the 13th century, nice
On April 10 2016 02:08 todespolka wrote: I have no idea why this community thinks, blizzards need to inform anybody about anything.
Maybe the Community Feedbacks (where they listen to the community's suggestions for in-game issues) made us feel we have a say in everything that Blizzard does or doesn't do....
On April 10 2016 02:10 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: This is so stupid. Are 1 base all-ins banned on ladder now? Being in GM now obliges you to never leave a ladder game?
We already discussed on the last page. MKP got off free, so all someone has to do is play ignorantly and they are fine. Major just needed to play. That is the precedent that has been set in SC2.
What you can't do is immediately leave at the start of the game. Because then you can't even say you were ignorant.
Because then there is a loophole for someone, "well my friend doesn't have a spot yet, I'll queue up with him and say I was sick and give him free wins."
I'm not saying you did that. But that loophole can't exist, and could be exploited.
And it isn't professional.
If a professional Olympic rower were home one day, if they were sick should they not be allowed to work out or do anything productive? Like you are sick you should not work out that is unprofessional.
Major is a professional Starcraft2 player, he should have the full right to practice his craft however he chooses to. The ladder is only way one can practice Starcraft2.
Obviously is a ladder competition is underway he should be aware and it should factor into how many games he is willing to leave early (even if that would be his behavior normally regardless of the competition).
But based on his accounts of the events (assuming the numbers and facts he have provided are 100% accurate) it sounds like he was just practicing his profession one day like he would any other day, and then ban banned.
As I said before, ladder isn't practice anymore. Play custom games against practice partners or something if you are sick.
The sick rower can work out all he wants in practice, but no spectator or competitor wants someone to show up and then give up immediately because they sick.
That isn't the reason people play, or watch sports.
So that behavior must have consequences if any sport is to be taken seriously. If that rower shows up sick and lines up against someone, and then gives up when the races starts and lets the other guy win, it could be very easily be perceived as match fixing when he had a choice not to compete.
and if rhere aren't any eligible practice partners available. So you aren't allowed to play ladder for practice when this thing is going on?
its kinda bullshit. i cant believe i got banned for this.they now asked me for my replays vs lambo on april 7. guess what i sent 6 replays i won 4-2 this day. so if anything he lost more pts playing me than he did winning vs me. ;/
On April 10 2016 02:10 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: This is so stupid. Are 1 base all-ins banned on ladder now? Being in GM now obliges you to never leave a ladder game?
We already discussed on the last page. MKP got off free, so all someone has to do is play ignorantly and they are fine. Major just needed to play. That is the precedent that has been set in SC2.
What you can't do is immediately leave at the start of the game. Because then you can't even say you were ignorant.
You seem to have conveniently "overlooked" my reply earlier.
On April 10 2016 02:10 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: This is so stupid. Are 1 base all-ins banned on ladder now? Being in GM now obliges you to never leave a ladder game?
We already discussed on the last page. MKP got off free, so all someone has to do is play ignorantly and they are fine. Major just needed to play. That is the precedent that has been set in SC2.
What you can't do is immediately leave at the start of the game. Because then you can't even say you were ignorant.
Theoretically, if one is under the same conditions as MajOr (sick), one could also PP first and tell the opponent about it, then come back if it's really bad and leave. At least then you got a witness in-game.
On April 10 2016 02:13 Major wrote: its kinda bullshit. i cant believe i got banned for this.they now asked me for my replays vs lambo on april 7. guess what i sent 6 replays i won 4-2 this day. so if anything he lost more pts playing me than he did winning vs me. ;/
Because then there is a loophole for someone, "well my friend doesn't have a spot yet, I'll queue up with him and say I was sick and give him free wins."
I'm not saying you did that. But that loophole can't exist, and could be exploited.
And it isn't professional.
If a professional Olympic rower were home one day, if they were sick should they not be allowed to work out or do anything productive? Like you are sick you should not work out that is unprofessional.
Major is a professional Starcraft2 player, he should have the full right to practice his craft however he chooses to. The ladder is only way one can practice Starcraft2.
Obviously is a ladder competition is underway he should be aware and it should factor into how many games he is willing to leave early (even if that would be his behavior normally regardless of the competition).
But based on his accounts of the events (assuming the numbers and facts he have provided are 100% accurate) it sounds like he was just practicing his profession one day like he would any other day, and then ban banned.
As I said before, ladder isn't practice anymore. Play custom games against practice partners or something if you are sick.
The sick rower can work out all he wants in practice, but no spectator or competitor wants someone to show up and then give up immediately because they sick.
That isn't the reason people play, or watch sports.
So that behavior must have consequences if any sport is to be taken seriously. If that rower shows up sick and lines up against someone, and then gives up when the races starts and lets the other guy win, it could be very easily be perceived as match fixing when he had a choice not to compete.
and if rhere aren't any eligible practice partners available. So you aren't allowed to play ladder for practice when this thing is going on?
Ladder isn't practice, so maybe no practice partners are available, ect... the obvious solution other than getting more practice partners is to take some time off or play the games out.
Honestly, Major has played so many games of SC2, it is very unlikely that practicing subpar games when he is sick is going to do anything for him anyway.
In fact, grinding itself is determinantal to SC2 skill, but like many other sports people totally misunderstand how to practice when it comes to E-Sports, and that is why we saw people with disciplined and regimented practice schemes like Stephano, dominate people who grind way more games.
There is so much more to practice than grinding, sports psychology proved that long ago.
On April 10 2016 02:10 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: This is so stupid. Are 1 base all-ins banned on ladder now? Being in GM now obliges you to never leave a ladder game?
We already discussed on the last page. MKP got off free, so all someone has to do is play ignorantly and they are fine. Major just needed to play. That is the precedent that has been set in SC2.
What you can't do is immediately leave at the start of the game. Because then you can't even say you were ignorant.
You seem to have conveniently "overlooked" my reply earlier.
After reading LiquidBunny's post I hope this will be the last time a qualification is done over ladder. Better just do open qualifications like they do in the banned nation.
On April 10 2016 02:13 Major wrote: its kinda bullshit. i cant believe i got banned for this.they now asked me for my replays vs lambo on april 7. guess what i sent 6 replays i won 4-2 this day. so if anything he lost more pts playing me than he did winning vs me. ;/
Well just send them all they are asking for
You! Go practice!
You should be scared now, you know, in this atmosphere, if you lose to Mana, somebody could say, you did not need to qualify anymore and wanted to help your friend ...
On April 10 2016 02:13 Major wrote: its kinda bullshit. i cant believe i got banned for this.they now asked me for my replays vs lambo on april 7. guess what i sent 6 replays i won 4-2 this day. so if anything he lost more pts playing me than he did winning vs me. ;/
Well just send them all they are asking for
You! Go practice!
You should be scared now, you know, in this atmosphere, if you lose to Mana, somebody could say, you did not need to qualify anymore and wanted to help your friend ...
I sure do want to help my friend haha :D go to the losers bracket
On April 10 2016 02:13 Major wrote: its kinda bullshit. i cant believe i got banned for this.they now asked me for my replays vs lambo on april 7. guess what i sent 6 replays i won 4-2 this day. so if anything he lost more pts playing me than he did winning vs me. ;/
Well just send them all they are asking for
You! Go practice!
You should be scared now, you know, in this atmosphere, if you lose to Mana, somebody could say, you did not need to qualify anymore and wanted to help your friend ...
I sure do want to help my friend haha :D go to the losers bracket
already sent em the replays. but its funny i had to find a way to contact em instaed of they just asking me for it. ;/
On April 10 2016 02:13 BronzeKnee wrote: It was too long, I actually just didn't read it.
LOL it was literally one sentence (2 lines) long...
That is long brah, this is a long thread. Actually, that is just my copy pasta excuse.
Anyway, I went back and it read it and it is irrelevant.
I can go 1-10 against someone and lose 90 ladder points. But if that one win is a free win they gave me, I should have lost 100 ladder points. And that 10 ladder points could matter, I could beg them to give a free win for ladder points if he is already qualified, ect...
And Nerchio, aren't you about to play MaNa? Or is it not really live? Good luck!
On April 10 2016 00:49 Superbanana wrote: Its so pathetic. Comparing the reactions on both threads i can see how a sizeable (or maybe more vocal) part of the community is just trying to defend the players they like and attack the one they dislike, not really caring about what is fair, who is gulty or whatever. One is defended, other is attacked. Same lack of evidence but only MajOr claimed to be innocent.
I believe MajOr until its proven otherwise. As for MarineLorD, i feel bad for him, but he must be punished if he is guilty.
The community is entitled to its opinion. Whatever we believe or who we side with is not really important. I won't even start a debate about how bad a ladder based qualification probably is (but yeah I tend to agree with Nony).
What is the source of tension and all the drama is how badly and differently Blizzard handles the issues and how to communicate about them. Bly lost on purpose and arranged its seed in previous WCS season? No problem. Mlord and DnS cheat the system? Insta-DQ without much showing evidence (is it that hard to try to be transparent?). Bunny has some suspicious wins around the time of lock? Blizzard says nothing, Bunny has to go out of his way to explain what happened (props to him, but it should have been up to Blizzard to do the comment). Major has suspicious behaviour? Insta-DQ without event asking the player.
Blizzard's behaviour is inconsistent and messy, their communication is pretty terrible and parasited by the players'. There is obviously something wrong at Blizzard, some people there are NOT doing their job. And I mean the ones who make the call and write what they report to the players and/or the community. If they want to do the ruling in WCS, fine by me but they should not do it half-assedly. I don't know, it is that hard to try to follow a sensible protocol for starters? Such as: - contact players investigated - investigate and tell them to shut up in the mean time - once it's settled, make the call, write the statement to the community and provide some evidence
Blizzard doesnt need to show you evidence. Its only between the player and blizzard. Also players have most certainly the rules already. If not you can be assure that the rules of last year count.
If proplayer received the rules after blys action, then thats the point when the rules count.
I have no idea why this community thinks, blizzards need to inform anybody about anything. Are you doing the same in real life?
Also ladder qualification wanted the community. Not blizzard. But i am sure, you will now say, that they shouldnt do what the community says. Either way you will always find a way to blame blizzard.
I am their customer and their fan dude. Blizzard does not need to provide me evidence indeed, but I at my own personal level sure as hell will ask for it anyway if I feel it is the right course of action and make sure by writing and voting with my money that they change their mind. Things do not have to stay wrong. And yeah I tend to do that for what is important to me in real life, it is a shame you probably don't given your wording.
I have no idea what you are talking about for the rest, Blizzard has done both some nice and terrible things recently, so I'm not sure what you are on about. So how about you shove your passive-aggressive statement in your own ass and focus on the matter itself?
On April 10 2016 02:13 Major wrote: its kinda bullshit. i cant believe i got banned for this.they now asked me for my replays vs lambo on april 7. guess what i sent 6 replays i won 4-2 this day. so if anything he lost more pts playing me than he did winning vs me. ;/
Well just send them all they are asking for
You! Go practice!
You should be scared now, you know, in this atmosphere, if you lose to Mana, somebody could say, you did not need to qualify anymore and wanted to help your friend ...
I sure do want to help my friend haha :D go to the losers bracket
already sent em the replays. but its funny i had to find a way to contact em instaed of they just asking me for it. ;/
really feeling sorry for you. but I am sure, they will not take it back, then they would lose their face even more as completely incompetent. But let's hope they will not disqualify you from anything else ...
On April 10 2016 00:24 NonY wrote: It is pretty ridiculous that you can forfeit games at a tournament without being DQ'd, but when playing a ladder competition, where it's more likely that you'll forfeit some games (playing many more games of much less importance), you automatically get DQ'd if you forfeit.
...I cannot recall a single post from Tyler that wasn't a treat to read.
if you guys really think i deserve to be banned over leaving 1game vs lambo cause i had to go take a shit. than i dont know what if instead my internet dropped? woulda i been a cheater too? im sure it had to happen to some other ppl as well. for what ever reason they left game early. its not fair to ban someone because of this.
To be honest, unless Blizzard clearly set a rule regarding this, they should give Major a free pass and set a rule clearly on this and prominently display it to all players so this doesn't happen in the future.
I heard the WCS rulebook wasn't even done for 2016 though, so I don't know what is happening.
On April 10 2016 00:24 NonY wrote: It is pretty ridiculous that you can forfeit games at a tournament without being DQ'd, but when playing a ladder competition, where it's more likely that you'll forfeit some games (playing many more games of much less importance), you automatically get DQ'd if you forfeit.
Sure, but that isn't a problem with the ladder, it is a problem with the tournament format.
If the ladder is going to be something beyond a practice arena, then it needs to have rules against purposely throwing matches, just like a tournament should.
But I personally think ladder shouldn't be a qualifier for anything, ever.
On April 10 2016 00:49 Superbanana wrote: Its so pathetic. Comparing the reactions on both threads i can see how a sizeable (or maybe more vocal) part of the community is just trying to defend the players they like and attack the one they dislike, not really caring about what is fair, who is gulty or whatever. One is defended, other is attacked. Same lack of evidence but only MajOr claimed to be innocent.
I believe MajOr until its proven otherwise. As for MarineLorD, i feel bad for him, but he must be punished if he is guilty.
The community is entitled to its opinion. Whatever we believe or who we side with is not really important. I won't even start a debate about how bad a ladder based qualification probably is (but yeah I tend to agree with Nony).
What is the source of tension and all the drama is how badly and differently Blizzard handles the issues and how to communicate about them. Bly lost on purpose and arranged its seed in previous WCS season? No problem. Mlord and DnS cheat the system? Insta-DQ without much showing evidence (is it that hard to try to be transparent?). Bunny has some suspicious wins around the time of lock? Blizzard says nothing, Bunny has to go out of his way to explain what happened (props to him, but it should have been up to Blizzard to do the comment). Major has suspicious behaviour? Insta-DQ without event asking the player.
Blizzard's behaviour is inconsistent and messy, their communication is pretty terrible and parasited by the players'. There is obviously something wrong at Blizzard, some people there are NOT doing their job. And I mean the ones who make the call and write what they report to the players and/or the community. If they want to do the ruling in WCS, fine by me but they should not do it half-assedly. I don't know, it is that hard to try to follow a sensible protocol for starters? Such as: - contact players investigated - investigate and tell them to shut up in the mean time - once it's settled, make the call, write the statement to the community and provide some evidence
I agree with the issues in the protocol. But my point was about the inconsitency in the community reaction. Sure, the community is entitled with its opinion, i never standed against it. I also won't point fingers to individuals.
^Basing myself on what I read from that post, I 150% support Major in his current predicament.
What Blizzard is doing is absolutely nuts. The ladder qualifier is the most ridiculously dumb thing ever if you can get banned over so little. Is there more compelling evidence?
Marinelord and DNS probably also got banned over some dumb technicality as well. You know what I'm going to take back everything I said in that thread.
I think Blizzard needs to seriously re-evaluate what they're doing to Starcraft as an eSport.
On April 10 2016 02:30 Incognoto wrote: Marinelord and DNS probably also got banned over some dumb technicality as well. You know what I'm going to take back everything I said in that thread.
So you now support the WCS system? Because I'm pretty sure that's what almost all your posts in that thread were about.
On April 10 2016 02:31 Ronski wrote: I left a game early today because my phone rang and the person refused to let me pause, should I report this to blizzard?
I was your opponent, and I already reported you so you're good.
On April 10 2016 02:28 Major wrote: if you guys really think i deserve to be banned over leaving 1game vs lambo cause i had to go take a shit. than i dont know what if instead my internet dropped? woulda i been a cheater too? im sure it had to happen to some other ppl as well. for what ever reason they left game early. its not fair to ban someone because of this.
If what you stated is true, and i believe until its proven wrong, then its indeed bullshit.
the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
On April 10 2016 02:30 Incognoto wrote: Marinelord and DNS probably also got banned over some dumb technicality as well. You know what I'm going to take back everything I said in that thread.
So you now support the WCS system? Because I'm pretty sure that's what almost all your posts in that thread were about.
I support fair conditions for all players. I'll put it this way:
WCS with region-locking (national or local heroes, etc.) is OK. It's regional format into a global format. That's OK.
Region-locking Koreans out of events which were previously open to anyone is shit, especially on the dumb pretense that "they're too good". That's not OK.
Disqualifying anyone from a ladder event because they were "match-fixing" (this time it was being sick, but it can be anything: I tried a new build, I tried to cheese, I rage-quit, power-outage, etc.) with little to no evidence, is shit. That's not OK either.
If players are treated unfairly, then I'll whine about.
On April 10 2016 02:13 BronzeKnee wrote: It was too long, I actually just didn't read it.
LOL it was literally one sentence (2 lines) long...
That is long brah, this is a long thread. Actually, that is just my copy pasta excuse.
Anyway, I went back and it read it and it is irrelevant.
I can go 1-10 against someone and lose 90 ladder points. But if that one win is a free win they gave me, I should have lost 100 ladder points. And that 10 ladder points could matter, I could beg them to give a free win for ladder points if he is already qualified, ect...
And Nerchio, aren't you about to play MaNa? Or is it not really live? Good luck!
Well then we're back into this very murky situation where Blizzard can't really know whether Major's story is the truth or if this was intended to help Lambo. Do they have any rule stating players involved in the ladder race CANNOT instantly leave games during a specified time interval?
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
On April 10 2016 02:30 Incognoto wrote: Marinelord and DNS probably also got banned over some dumb technicality as well. You know what I'm going to take back everything I said in that thread.
So you now support the WCS system? Because I'm pretty sure that's what almost all your posts in that thread were about.
I support fair conditions for all players. I'll put it this way:
WCS with region-locking (national or local heroes, etc.) is OK. It's regional format into a global format. That's OK.
Region-locking Koreans out of events which were previously open to anyone is shit, especially on the dumb pretense that "they're too good". That's not OK.
Disqualifying anyone from a ladder event because they were "match-fixing" (this time it was being sick, but it can be anything: I tried a new build, I tried to cheese, I rage-quit, power-outage, etc.) with little to no evidence, is shit. That's not OK either.
If players are treated unfairly, then I'll whine about.
On April 10 2016 02:30 Incognoto wrote: Marinelord and DNS probably also got banned over some dumb technicality as well. You know what I'm going to take back everything I said in that thread.
So you now support the WCS system? Because I'm pretty sure that's what almost all your posts in that thread were about.
I support fair conditions for all players. I'll put it this way:
WCS with region-locking (national or local heroes, etc.) is OK. It's regional format into a global format. That's OK.
Region-locking Koreans out of events which were previously open to anyone is shit, especially on the dumb pretense that "they're too good". That's not OK.
Disqualifying anyone from a ladder event because they were "match-fixing" (this time it was being sick, but it can be anything: I tried a new build, I tried to cheese, I rage-quit, power-outage, etc.) with little to no evidence, is shit. That's not OK either.
If players are treated unfairly, then I'll whine about.
So how exactly did you take back anything you said in that thread?
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
He didn't matchfix he left a ladder game.
see this is whats the worse. now imma be called a matchfixer everywhere. it damages players reputation even if mine its not the best im not a matchfixer...
On April 10 2016 02:30 Incognoto wrote: Marinelord and DNS probably also got banned over some dumb technicality as well. You know what I'm going to take back everything I said in that thread.
So you now support the WCS system? Because I'm pretty sure that's what almost all your posts in that thread were about.
I support fair conditions for all players. I'll put it this way:
WCS with region-locking (national or local heroes, etc.) is OK. It's regional format into a global format. That's OK.
Region-locking Koreans out of events which were previously open to anyone is shit, especially on the dumb pretense that "they're too good". That's not OK.
Disqualifying anyone from a ladder event because they were "match-fixing" (this time it was being sick, but it can be anything: I tried a new build, I tried to cheese, I rage-quit, power-outage, etc.) with little to no evidence, is shit. That's not OK either.
If players are treated unfairly, then I'll whine about.
So how exactly did you take back anything you said in that thread?
I got a warning for calling foreigners "cheating scrubs". Which is, retrospectively I suppose, the only thing I take back. ^_^
On April 10 2016 02:08 todespolka wrote: I have no idea why this community thinks, blizzards need to inform anybody about anything.
Maybe the Community Feedbacks (where they listen to the community's suggestions for in-game issues) made us feel we have a say in everything that Blizzard does or doesn't do....
Blizzard as an organizer =/= Blizzard as a game designer. Here people are complaining about Blizzard taking a bullshit decision because :
(a) such events happening were predicted by many people (including progamers themselves), and there is no possibility to have evidence that two players matchfixed in this case (without heavy effort, at least)
(b) double-standards were applied, since players who left early were immediatly cleared of charges (Bly, Bunny) while others were convicted (MLord/DnS, MajOr)
(c) this is handled with Kespa-level of shadiness, and while Blizzard has no legal obligation to be transparent, people expect transparency from a company based in the United States of Freedom and which basically has a monopoly on the foreign scene, granting it insane powers such as arbitrarily preventing a player from pursuing their career.
(d) yes, fans have a say in what Blizzard (tournament organizer) does or doesn't do, much like fans have a say in what the NASCAR, FIFA, FIA/FOM, etc, do. It's not complete power (and thank the gods for that), but we, as a community, influence the way Blizzard is acting through what we express about things. Thus, since double-standard were shamelessly applied, it is the duty of this community to rise against what is a huge damage to the foreign scene's credibility and equity.
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
are you retarded, there's no proof that he had that intention and within reason there's no incentive for him to do so
I seriously doubt someone paid him money to start pulling shit randomly on another ladder server.
Unlike the case of the Frenchmen there's nothing for major to benefit from.
On April 10 2016 00:40 Kafka777 wrote: I was watching this ladder competition closely. I do believe Major in what he is saying and I don't think there was intentional foul play on his part. Having said that, he did "interfere" with the competition by taking points from some players and later giving some to others for "free" about 1-2 hours before lockdown. I think Major and Naniva as ineligible players should have stayed out of this, knowing their actions have positive or detrimental impact on some players results - its a matter of good manners to say the least. However there was nothing in the rules against it and the organization of the competition is not without fault here.
But the problem is the system, because if a player that bought the game wants to play some ladder this day, he should be able to freely do so. If he wants to leave a game because he doesn't feel well or is afraid of an opponent or bored of a matchup/map, he should be able to do it (as long as he doesn't leave more than 5% of his games or whatever).
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
There is no fact that he matchfixed. That's possibly what happened, that's also possibly what didn't happen.
This is actually pretty disgusting. Wonder when Blizzard is actually going to start firing people for doing a poor job? Probably never. Gotta keep makin dat money... -sigh-
This is totally ridiculous. The ladder is simply NOT a professional environment where you can expect people to follow tournament rules. Pretty much anyone who is KR or NA is not allowed to participate in the actual tournament, but they should be absolutely 100% allowed to do whatever they want on the ladder during this period.
Even if Major did intentionally throw a game because he likes a player (note, he can still actually do this, he just needs to derp through the game a little bit, then leave), the system is completely flawed. He (Major) has no reason to win, other than for the sake of practice. There is very little on the line for him. The same cannot be said for the players capable and interested in qualifying.
But let's be real, I don't think Major really cares about who qualifies for the EU league. I don't think he was throwing games right and left. Ladder has never been taken seriously, even by pros. People can, and should be able to do whatever they want with the ladder. It is simply not a tournament environment, and cannot be treated as such.
Looking at the silly rulebook, it says that...
Players must compete to the best of their ability at all times. Any form of cheating will not be tolerated. All players are prohibited from influencing or manipulating a WCS game or match so that the outcome is determined by anything other than its merits. Examples of cheating would include: -- Collusion, match fixing or any other action to intentionally alter, or attempt to alter, the results of any game or match, including losing a game or match with another player in order to advance one or the other’s rank; -- Attempts to interfere with another player’s connection to the game service through Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) or any other means; -- Tampering with the entry process or the operation of the WCS; and -- Allowing an individual who is not the registered owner of a Battle.net Account to play on that Battle.net Account in StarCraft II or any other Blizzard game.
Now, you need some pretty clear proof before you can claim the first point there. From the wording, it is clear that one must be doing it with the intention of helping one advance or improve their rank. You can't just see that someone left a game at the start, or just played super shitty, and this influenced the results of the ladder rankings, and then ban them from participating in WCS events. You need definitive proof of throwing the game, with the intention of helping other players. If they had a screenshot from a Skype group chat, where someone asks Major "oh hey man, can u lose for me on ladder? i am sooooo close 2 top 16, just need couple more wins men..." and Major responds, "oh ya man, i gotchu bb." and THEN you see 3+ losses in really shitty games from Major against said player. THEN YOU CAN BAN HIM. If they don't have that kind of proof, then it's just crazy. As for their last point, yeah, tons of people share accounts. If they want to enforce this, it's okay, I don't think it's a bad thing to enforce, but it should really just be used for tournament specific stuff. If Major played on someone's account during the Ladder Qualifier, that is clearly not okay.
What Blizzard SHOULD have done, was issue warnings. When you have a new system in place, that differed from OLD systems, you really need to be a bit more lenient on the rules. And honestly, what they did with Major, and possibly MarineLord/whatshisname, was pretty damn ridiculous. Banning him without even a warning from basically his most important tournament of the year? That's just dumb...
On April 10 2016 02:54 -Kyo- wrote: This is actually pretty disgusting. CWonder when Blizzard is actually going to start firing people for doing a poor job? Probably never. Gotta keep makin dat money... -sigh-
The guy who brought us blord/infestor got moved to another game.
On April 10 2016 02:54 -Kyo- wrote: This is actually pretty disgusting. Wonder when Blizzard is actually going to start firing people for doing a poor job? Probably never. Gotta keep makin dat money... -sigh-
The same people who gave us BL/Infestor, ZpCraft and the series that dare not speak its name in this thread? Highly unlikely
They create a system to promote foreign players but at the same time they treat those players like shit. What is blizzards goal at all? I don't think they even have one. Someone needs to be fired, srsly.
On April 10 2016 02:54 -Kyo- wrote: This is actually pretty disgusting. Wonder when Blizzard is actually going to start firing people for doing a poor job? Probably never. Gotta keep makin dat money... -sigh-
The same people who gave us BL/Infestor, ZpCraft and the series that dare not speak its name in this thread? Highly unlikely
On April 10 2016 03:05 Charoisaur wrote: They create a system to promote foreign players but at the same time they treat those players like shit. What is blizzards goal at all? I don't think they even have one. Someone needs to be fired, srsly.
The more and more stuff like this goes on the more I believe what I believed from the very start, their goal is basically "Fuck Korea"
On April 10 2016 02:57 Blargh wrote: This is totally ridiculous. The ladder is simply NOT a professional environment where you can expect people to follow tournament rules. Pretty much anyone who is KR or NA is not allowed to participate in the actual tournament, but they should be absolutely 100% allowed to do whatever they want on the ladder during this period.
Even if Major did intentionally throw a game because he likes a player (note, he can still actually do this, he just needs to derp through the game a little bit, then leave), the system is completely flawed. He (Major) has no reason to win, other than for the sake of practice. There is very little on the line for him. The same cannot be said for the players capable and interested in qualifying.
But let's be real, I don't think Major really cares about who qualifies for the EU league. I don't think he was throwing games right and left. Ladder has never been taken seriously, even by pros. People can, and should be able to do whatever they want with the ladder. It is simply not a tournament environment, and cannot be treated as such.
Players must compete to the best of their ability at all times. Any form of cheating will not be tolerated. All players are prohibited from influencing or manipulating a WCS game or match so that the outcome is determined by anything other than its merits. Examples of cheating would include: -- Collusion, match fixing or any other action to intentionally alter, or attempt to alter, the results of any game or match, including losing a game or match with another player in order to advance one or the other’s rank; -- Attempts to interfere with another player’s connection to the game service through Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) or any other means; -- Tampering with the entry process or the operation of the WCS; and -- Allowing an individual who is not the registered owner of a Battle.net Account to play on that Battle.net Account in StarCraft II or any other Blizzard game.
Now, you need some pretty clear proof before you can claim the first point there. From the wording, it is clear that one must be doing it with the intention of helping one advance or improve their rank. You can't just see that someone left a game at the start, or just played super shitty, and this influenced the results of the ladder rankings, and then ban them from participating in WCS events. You need definitive proof of throwing the game, with the intention of helping other players. If they had a screenshot from a Skype group chat, where someone asks Major "oh hey man, can u lose for me on ladder? i am sooooo close 2 top 16, just need couple more wins men..." and Major responds, "oh ya man, i gotchu bb." and THEN you see 3+ losses in really shitty games from Major against said player. THEN YOU CAN BAN HIM. If they don't have that kind of proof, then it's just crazy. As for their last point, yeah, tons of people share accounts. If they want to enforce this, it's okay, I don't think it's a bad thing to enforce, but it should really just be used for tournament specific stuff. If Major played on someone's account during the Ladder Qualifier, that is clearly not okay.
What Blizzard SHOULD have done, was issue warnings. When you have a new system in place, that differed from OLD systems, you really need to be a bit more lenient on the rules. And honestly, what they did with Major, and possibly MarineLord/whatshisname, was pretty damn ridiculous. Banning him without even a warning from basically his most important tournament of the year? That's just dumb...
dudes been playing in almost all of their tournaments since the beginning...
and now he decides to randomly go rogue for a continent ladder that doesn't affect him AT ALL
On April 10 2016 02:54 -Kyo- wrote: This is actually pretty disgusting. Wonder when Blizzard is actually going to start firing people for doing a poor job? Probably never. Gotta keep makin dat money... -sigh-
The same people who gave us BL/Infestor, ZpCraft and the series that dare not speak its name in this thread? Highly unlikely
which series?
The one that was banned from being named in the ML/DnS thread
On April 10 2016 03:05 Charoisaur wrote: They create a system to promote foreign players but at the same time they treat those players like shit. What is blizzards goal at all? I don't think they even have one. Someone needs to be fired, srsly.
The more and more stuff like this goes on the more I believe what I believed from the very start, their goal is basically "Fuck Korea"
But now they fuck foreigners too. So their goal is to fuck everyone and kill sc2?
On April 10 2016 03:05 Charoisaur wrote: They create a system to promote foreign players but at the same time they treat those players like shit. What is blizzards goal at all? I don't think they even have one. Someone needs to be fired, srsly.
The more and more stuff like this goes on the more I believe what I believed from the very start, their goal is basically "Fuck Korea"
But now they fuck foreigners too. So their goal is to fuck everyone and kill sc2?
Dangerously accurate statement.
I'm sure that Blizzard mean well. But they're just so clueless.
On April 10 2016 03:05 Charoisaur wrote: They create a system to promote foreign players but at the same time they treat those players like shit. What is blizzards goal at all? I don't think they even have one. Someone needs to be fired, srsly.
The more and more stuff like this goes on the more I believe what I believed from the very start, their goal is basically "Fuck Korea"
But now they fuck foreigners too. So their goal is to fuck everyone and kill sc2?
No, they aren't killing sc2 and are still definitely promoting korea. They are spending more money on players and less on travel costs while trying to promote regional play. I guess from the business side it makes sense and from the forums i guess they tend to disagree with how the money is spent. I mean sending 12 koreans to a tournament in europe is about 2k a piece in travel costs. so like 8-12k in cheaper travel costs which is money that is directly invested into ssl and gsl. Also, this has nothing to do with the thread and probably should be temp banned. I'm still not sure how major is involved with marinelord and DNS. Is major good friends with them?
On April 10 2016 03:05 Charoisaur wrote: They create a system to promote foreign players but at the same time they treat those players like shit. What is blizzards goal at all? I don't think they even have one. Someone needs to be fired, srsly.
The more and more stuff like this goes on the more I believe what I believed from the very start, their goal is basically "Fuck Korea"
But now they fuck foreigners too. So their goal is to fuck everyone and kill sc2?
No, they aren't killing sc2 and are still definitely promoting korea. They are spending more money on players and less on travel costs while trying to promote regional play. Also, this has nothing to do with the thread and probably should be temp banned. I'm still not sure how major is involved with marinelord and DNS. Is major good friends with them?
i am good friends with them. but i didnt had anything to do with waht they did.
I'm not going to judge until I hear the evidence, major is one of the few foreign terran hopes...
BUT it tingles the spider senses when someone starts explaining what he did was not match fixing, after stating he has no idea *why* they are accusing him of match fixing...
On April 10 2016 03:05 Charoisaur wrote: They create a system to promote foreign players but at the same time they treat those players like shit. What is blizzards goal at all? I don't think they even have one. Someone needs to be fired, srsly.
The more and more stuff like this goes on the more I believe what I believed from the very start, their goal is basically "Fuck Korea"
But now they fuck foreigners too. So their goal is to fuck everyone and kill sc2?
No, they aren't killing sc2 and are still definitely promoting korea. They are spending more money on players and less on travel costs while trying to promote regional play. Also, this has nothing to do with the thread and probably should be temp banned. I'm still not sure how major is involved with marinelord and DNS. Is major good friends with them?
i am good friends with them. but i didnt had anything to do with waht they did.
ye so Bly claims that you are involved because he knows you are good friends with them and Kim Pham is away for the weekend so this won't be sorted out until next week. but they are playing copa america today. so Its announced on the weekend without notice so there is no chance for an appeal.
On April 10 2016 03:19 StackerTwo wrote: I'm not going to judge until I hear the evidence, major is one of the few foreign terran hopes...
BUT it tingles the spider senses when someone starts explaining what he did was not match fixing, after stating he has no idea *why* they are accusing him of match fixing...
Major does a lot of unique builds like proxy 2 rax reaper into expand, which isn't common on the meta. (sorry major, but you know we steal your builds long time anyways) Still no way to get Kim Pham to appeal in a 3 hour window so its pretty fucked up.
On April 10 2016 02:57 Blargh wrote: This is totally ridiculous. The ladder is simply NOT a professional environment where you can expect people to follow tournament rules. Pretty much anyone who is KR or NA is not allowed to participate in the actual tournament, but they should be absolutely 100% allowed to do whatever they want on the ladder during this period.
Even if Major did intentionally throw a game because he likes a player (note, he can still actually do this, he just needs to derp through the game a little bit, then leave), the system is completely flawed. He (Major) has no reason to win, other than for the sake of practice. There is very little on the line for him. The same cannot be said for the players capable and interested in qualifying.
But let's be real, I don't think Major really cares about who qualifies for the EU league. I don't think he was throwing games right and left. Ladder has never been taken seriously, even by pros. People can, and should be able to do whatever they want with the ladder. It is simply not a tournament environment, and cannot be treated as such.
Players must compete to the best of their ability at all times. Any form of cheating will not be tolerated. All players are prohibited from influencing or manipulating a WCS game or match so that the outcome is determined by anything other than its merits. Examples of cheating would include: -- Collusion, match fixing or any other action to intentionally alter, or attempt to alter, the results of any game or match, including losing a game or match with another player in order to advance one or the other’s rank; -- Attempts to interfere with another player’s connection to the game service through Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) or any other means; -- Tampering with the entry process or the operation of the WCS; and -- Allowing an individual who is not the registered owner of a Battle.net Account to play on that Battle.net Account in StarCraft II or any other Blizzard game.
Now, you need some pretty clear proof before you can claim the first point there. From the wording, it is clear that one must be doing it with the intention of helping one advance or improve their rank. You can't just see that someone left a game at the start, or just played super shitty, and this influenced the results of the ladder rankings, and then ban them from participating in WCS events. You need definitive proof of throwing the game, with the intention of helping other players. If they had a screenshot from a Skype group chat, where someone asks Major "oh hey man, can u lose for me on ladder? i am sooooo close 2 top 16, just need couple more wins men..." and Major responds, "oh ya man, i gotchu bb." and THEN you see 3+ losses in really shitty games from Major against said player. THEN YOU CAN BAN HIM. If they don't have that kind of proof, then it's just crazy. As for their last point, yeah, tons of people share accounts. If they want to enforce this, it's okay, I don't think it's a bad thing to enforce, but it should really just be used for tournament specific stuff. If Major played on someone's account during the Ladder Qualifier, that is clearly not okay.
What Blizzard SHOULD have done, was issue warnings. When you have a new system in place, that differed from OLD systems, you really need to be a bit more lenient on the rules. And honestly, what they did with Major, and possibly MarineLord/whatshisname, was pretty damn ridiculous. Banning him without even a warning from basically his most important tournament of the year? That's just dumb...
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
are you retarded, there's no proof that he had that intention and within reason there's no incentive for him to do so
I seriously doubt someone paid him money to start pulling shit randomly on another ladder server.
Unlike the case of the Frenchmen there's nothing for major to benefit from.
I'm not drawing conclusions or anything. That was retarded thing to say. Blizzard said he matched fix. As a corporation as large Blizzard, they won't go "he left a ladder game... HURR DURR MATCH FIX BAN HURR DURR".
They have a proof, whether they want to release it to public is up to them. I'm with you that it is lame to be kept in the shadows but they won't go for the hurr durr when they ban a player.
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
are you retarded, there's no proof that he had that intention and within reason there's no incentive for him to do so
I seriously doubt someone paid him money to start pulling shit randomly on another ladder server.
Unlike the case of the Frenchmen there's nothing for major to benefit from.
I'm not drawing conclusions or anything. That was retarded thing to say. Blizzard said he matched fix. As a corporation as large Blizzard, they won't go "he left a ladder game... HURR DURR MATCH FIX BAN HURR DURR".
They have a proof, whether they want to release it to public is up to them. I'm with you that it is lame to be kept in the shadows but they won't go for the hurr durr when they ban a player.
Why are you assuming Blizzard is competent given their recent record?
On April 10 2016 00:56 Dana44 wrote: blizzard is so bad god damn it... pls valve can you buy blizzard?
O god no, valve can be really horrible. Look at what they did to dota... Three things valve do best: Selling hats, selling other peoples games, and delaying hl3.
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
are you retarded, there's no proof that he had that intention and within reason there's no incentive for him to do so
I seriously doubt someone paid him money to start pulling shit randomly on another ladder server.
Unlike the case of the Frenchmen there's nothing for major to benefit from.
I'm not drawing conclusions or anything. That was retarded thing to say. Blizzard said he matched fix. As a corporation as large Blizzard, they won't go "he left a ladder game... HURR DURR MATCH FIX BAN HURR DURR".
They have a proof, whether they want to release it to public is up to them. I'm with you that it is lame to be kept in the shadows but they won't go for the hurr durr when they ban a player.
You are purely assuming they have proof. You don't actually know that.
Well on ladder if someone knocks on the door or you get a phone call - you cant F10 N cause you might get banned? Even when I am trying to hit GM I leave if I get a call from an old friend or so. More important than ladder games...
Why are you assuming Blizzard is competent given their recent record?
What record? Do they have a record of falsely accusing players? If so I did not know about that one. Can you give me examples please?
You are purely assuming they have proof. You don't actually know that.
Correct. I'm assuming that Blizzard can have a solid proof. Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against MajOr. But as someone who is not concerned with either. Who should I believe. Major or Blizzard?
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
are you retarded, there's no proof that he had that intention and within reason there's no incentive for him to do so
I seriously doubt someone paid him money to start pulling shit randomly on another ladder server.
Unlike the case of the Frenchmen there's nothing for major to benefit from.
I'm not drawing conclusions or anything. That was retarded thing to say. Blizzard said he matched fix. As a corporation as large Blizzard, they won't go "he left a ladder game... HURR DURR MATCH FIX BAN HURR DURR".
They have a proof, whether they want to release it to public is up to them. I'm with you that it is lame to be kept in the shadows but they won't go for the hurr durr when they ban a player.
You are purely assuming they have proof. You don't actually know that.
You've been posting that a lot. Why are you acting like it's so weird for people to assume there is proof? We do that a lot when we don't have information, see Life's case. There's no incentive for Blizzard to do this and every incentive for them not to do it. Their proof may be debatable and/or weak but it's pretty obvious that it exists, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation.
On April 10 2016 02:08 todespolka wrote: I have no idea why this community thinks, blizzards need to inform anybody about anything.
Maybe the Community Feedbacks (where they listen to the community's suggestions for in-game issues) made us feel we have a say in everything that Blizzard does or doesn't do....
Blizzard as an organizer =/= Blizzard as a game designer. Here people are complaining about Blizzard taking a bullshit decision because :
(a) such events happening were predicted by many people (including progamers themselves), and there is no possibility to have evidence that two players matchfixed in this case (without heavy effort, at least)
(b) double-standards were applied, since players who left early were immediatly cleared of charges (Bly, Bunny) while others were convicted (MLord/DnS, MajOr)
(c) this is handled with Kespa-level of shadiness, and while Blizzard has no legal obligation to be transparent, people expect transparency from a company based in the United States of Freedom and which basically has a monopoly on the foreign scene, granting it insane powers such as arbitrarily preventing a player from pursuing their career.
(d) yes, fans have a say in what Blizzard (tournament organizer) does or doesn't do, much like fans have a say in what the NASCAR, FIFA, FIA/FOM, etc, do. It's not complete power (and thank the gods for that), but we, as a community, influence the way Blizzard is acting through what we express about things. Thus, since double-standard were shamelessly applied, it is the duty of this community to rise against what is a huge damage to the foreign scene's credibility and equity.
I don't agree with your reasoning but I don't wanna fight with you, so let's just agree to disagree. Or maybe you will change your opinion a bit in a few days and we can agree and be friends again
If there is something it seems we all agree on, it's that Blizzard's esports division is doing a very poor job lately. Even if you consider WCS a good thing to do, it's been organized and handled so bad that it's hard to count it as a success.
(b) If someone asks you to bet on any WCS game or “fix” the outcome of a game, you must immediately report this contact to Blizzard using the following email address: esportsteam@blizzard.com .
On April 10 2016 02:34 BeStFAN wrote: the most ridiculous thing to me is that he got banned in an American tournament for his ladder activity on EU where it's pretty clear there's no benefit for him.
even if he was intentionally dropping games it's not like it was gonna affect him at all -_- unless he's playing the long con about who he wants to play at DH (AFTER THEY PLAY QUALIFIERS LOL...)
get fucking real blizzard
It does not matter whether it was on EU or NA, the fact that he match fixed. He manipulated how the results should be. Whether he participates in EU or NA does not matter, otherwise it would be OK to match fix on any server as long as you do not fix on your own region. Which is kinda stupid.
are you retarded, there's no proof that he had that intention and within reason there's no incentive for him to do so
I seriously doubt someone paid him money to start pulling shit randomly on another ladder server.
Unlike the case of the Frenchmen there's nothing for major to benefit from.
I'm not drawing conclusions or anything. That was retarded thing to say. Blizzard said he matched fix. As a corporation as large Blizzard, they won't go "he left a ladder game... HURR DURR MATCH FIX BAN HURR DURR".
They have a proof, whether they want to release it to public is up to them. I'm with you that it is lame to be kept in the shadows but they won't go for the hurr durr when they ban a player.
You are purely assuming they have proof. You don't actually know that.
Because Bly tweets and Blizzard decisions were so close, I think that Blizzard policy is shoot first, ask questions later. The fact that they didn't even asked Major for replays make it clear. Unless they have chat record about Major that clearly state the match fixing, there's no proof that would justify its elimination.
The case of MLord/DnS is more suspicious but again, it doesn't mean they have proof. The 2 wins involved are cheese from DnS which could make such short games. The fact that they played 3 games in a row could also happen. I've consulted some of the top players history and there are a lot of games which involve the same players 3-4 times in a row due to the fact that players click right away the "Play again" button on the score screen.
What I find surprising is the lack of communication from Blizzard. Do the esport staff only work on weekday ? That kind of bizarre to work only when the stuff you organize doesn't take place.
It's interesting to see blizzard taking this strong measures with apparently so little evidence for thing that happened on the ladder. It's strange to me cause for all these years they did nothing to punish maphacking and account boosting.
On April 10 2016 04:37 Mugen93 wrote: It's interesting to see blizzard taking this strong measures with apparently so little evidence for thing that happened on the ladder. It's strange to me cause for all these years they did nothing to punish maphacking and account boosting.
I don't think punishing maphacking and account boosting is easy nor cost effective uh. The people making this have more time to do their stuff and don't need to deal with privacy issues.
I think it's clear the rules and stipulations of the ladder part of the WCS system is in black and blue so the community can understand what is going on (the current rulebook is a bit obsolescent in light of the recent changes, I believe?).
Either that or remove/drastically alter the ladder component of the system. WCS 2016 season 1 has yet to finish and more people have been disqualified for match fixing than those who were charged for it in Korea last year. This is turning out be an embarrassing precedent for the foreign community. The problem is, who is to blame? Players or Blizzard?
On April 10 2016 04:42 Caihead wrote: I wonder who actually tipped blizzard off that there was suspicious behavior, was it automated? Did the people who lost to Major screw him over?
On April 10 2016 04:37 Mugen93 wrote: It's interesting to see blizzard taking this strong measures with apparently so little evidence for thing that happened on the ladder. It's strange to me cause for all these years they did nothing to punish maphacking and account boosting.
I don't think punishing maphacking and account boosting is easy nor cost effective uh. The people making this have more time to do their stuff and don't need to deal with privacy issues.
Then they should not give relevance to an enviroment were cheating is quite ordinary when in the first place they did nothing in the past to make it better imo.
On April 10 2016 04:42 Caihead wrote: I wonder who actually tipped blizzard off that there was suspicious behavior, was it automated? Did the people who lost to Major screw him over?
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Yes ... his excuse is also a problem ... it would be fine enough to say - I ate something wrong an hour before and in that particular moment, I just needed to RUN to the toilet. In that moment, in that minute. And nobody could say anything. When he starts to explain that he needed to take medicine and he has a doctor's certificate, that is making it just more suspicious.
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
Pausing when you know you won't be able to quickly come back is bad manner tho, better leave so your opponent doesn't waste his time waiting for you tbh.
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
ok so if i by mistake i boxed all my scvs and sent em one to 1 patch or zerg player makes 2 overlords or protoss forget to make a pylon. in a ladder game and leave hes a cheater? ofcourse not that shit happens
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
Pausing when you know you won't be able to quickly come back is bad manner tho, better leave so your opponent doesn't waste his time waiting for you tbh.
I'd rather be bad manner than give free points to my teammate during a ladder league that is run by the company that created the game and runs the server that I'm playing on lol
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
ok so if i by mistake i boxed all my scvs and sent em one to 1 patch or zerg player makes 2 overlords or protoss forget to make a pylon. in a ladder game and leave hes a cheater? ofcourse not that shit happens
This, I can understand. However, none of these apply to you so trying to argue hypothetical scenarios doesn't absolve you of anything.
Also, I think it's stupid if that shit even counts =_=; Games should be at least 2 minutes before points awarded, just like BW.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
Using ladder as a lazy way to run any qualification is going to throw up issues like this because a lot of pro's do not take ladder seriously. They do not go into every single ladder game in 'Tournament rules mode' and leave matches etc when they don't want to face the same guy the 5th time in a row or for some other reason.
Banning people from a tournament because you were too lazy to run proper qualifiers just shows how pathetically Blizz are running this right now imo.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
I'm in shock. The player got word that he was DQ'ed from someone else than Blizzard and got no chance to explain himself? How can that EVER happen? When is that EVER okay?
On April 10 2016 06:00 nunun wrote: I'm in shock. The player got word that he was DQ'ed from someone else than Blizzard and got no chance to explain himself? How can that EVER happen? When is that EVER okay?
;/ dont know i found by miniraiser linking a facebook post on spanish. kinda shocking
On April 10 2016 06:00 nunun wrote: I'm in shock. The player got word that he was DQ'ed from someone else than Blizzard and got no chance to explain himself? How can that EVER happen? When is that EVER okay?
;/ dont know i found by miniraiser linking a facebook post on spanish. kinda shocking
I'm really sorry this happened to you. Wish you all the best, hopefully they will realise their mistake in time.
On April 10 2016 06:00 nunun wrote: I'm in shock. The player got word that he was DQ'ed from someone else than Blizzard and got no chance to explain himself? How can that EVER happen? When is that EVER okay?
;/ dont know i found by miniraiser linking a facebook post on spanish. kinda shocking
I'm really sorry this happened to you. Wish you all the best, hopefully they will realise their mistake in time.
well damage is done i just hope this punishment is only for copa america season2 and dont go beyond that.. especially cause i gained nothing by this its not like i trowed a match for money.... im so sad
If for whatever reason someone wants to leave a game/do silly build/fuck around, it makes no sense to punish them. Instead how about giving people incentive to care/take it seriously?
Blizzard should back off with the fascist/authoritarian approach they've been taking as of late.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
So you just stumbled unwittingly onto a WCS tournament. Since you were not eligible, you could drop games because you had to open the door etc. Sure, why not, you would not do that if it mattered to you. But you are aware you affected other WCS players and the tournament itself ? I trust your good faith in this, the rules didn't prohibit this explicitly. Bit unfortunate that you had to quit games with your team mate. Anyway best of luck and I hope the penalty will not be severe. Take more care next time, I also hope organizers will be more reasonable with organizing such contests.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
My point is that there's no real motive for Major. There's no benefit to be gained. Why do I feel like you're a giant retard? Because you've spent the last few posts implying major is either in your words "intellectually challenged or a cheater" over conduct outside of a tournament.
Why do I now feel you're an even bigger retard now? Because now the only thing you're blasting major on is your worthless feelings about what it means to be a "professional" when it's pretty clear that he's under no contract, and was given no instructions on how to act on another server. There were other professionals active on NA and EU playing without the intent of qualifying; Naniwa was playing games on NA during qualification period knowing it would take and give ladder points. It's absurd to suggest that it's "wrong" or "unprofessional" to play games in an open ladder.
Blizz should first have made this clear that no early leaving whatsoever is allowed in GM, like a official statment published 2016 rulebook...before doing what they did
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
On April 10 2016 06:00 nunun wrote: I'm in shock. The player got word that he was DQ'ed from someone else than Blizzard and got no chance to explain himself? How can that EVER happen? When is that EVER okay?
Welcome to WCS 2016: Where the best players are banned and they can't even run a qualifier right
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
My point is that there's no real motive for Major. There's no benefit to be gained. Why do I feel like you're a giant retard? Because you've spent the last few posts implying major is either in your words "intellectually challenged or a cheater" over conduct outside of a tournament.
Why do I now feel you're an even bigger retard now? Because now the only thing you're blasting major on is your worthless feelings about what it means to be a "professional" when it's pretty clear that he's under no contract, and was given no instructions on how to act on another server. There were other professionals active on NA and EU playing without the intent of qualifying; Naniwa was playing games on NA during qualification period knowing it would take and give ladder points. It's absurd to suggest that it's "wrong" or "unprofessional" to play games in an open ladder.
Besides the fact that he gave points to his teammate, of course.
Why do you feel the need to devolve to ad hominem repeatedly over the course of a conversation? It only shows how emotional you're being about this, weakening any argument you have, which is faulty at best. Why does there need to be motive for someone to be guilty? If I am pulling out of my driveway and I didn't look back because I didn't care enough to make sure I was behaving within the confines of the rules of the road, and I run over a person, should I just walk free? No, because even though I had no MOTIVE, I still committed the crime.
The conduct might not have been in the tournament proper, but it is quite logical to extend player integrity to a tournament's qualifier. If your actions before a tournament affect the tournament itself, it stands to logic that there should be rules and regulations about that. Throwing games to give people points is one such thing that has been historically known to be NOT okay in competitions. It makes complete sense, because you are impacting the chances of other people to participate, positively for some and negatively for others. Players should qualify for tournaments only on their own merit, not because someone is feeding another points. How do you not understand this? Has your fanaticism blinded you?
He IS under contract. Earlier in the thread, or perhaps it was the other one, people brought up points from the Battle.net TOS (or maybe it was the WCS Qualifier TOS, but the distinction is not important). Major violated those points. He violated them after affirming that he would follow them. You know how when you install a program you have to agree to the "End User License Agreement" or whatever? Don't you have to do that when you sign up for Battle.net? He WAS given instructions on how to behave on the server, he just didn't follow them. So, no, you're wrong on this matter too.
Other professional gamers playing without the intent of qualifying has no pertinence to his situation or actions, for two reasons. Firstly, because if other people jump off a cliff, that doesn't necessarily mean you should follow suit. Secondly, because Naniwa playing (hypothetically) to the best of his ability against others is actually to the benefit of the competition. It provides more games at a high level to more players. More games means more accurate rankings. Just because he can't qualify doesn't change that they still took the top players from the qualification round and just didn't include him. They still took the best players from the region with honest games under their belt. What Major does by giving free points has absolutely no relation to this.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
I don't see the point of you personally coaching Major though. I don't see it as irresponsible, i see major as the victim of shitty qualifier design. you should be allowed to leave a ladder game without getting kicked out of tournaments, lol. the fault here is blizzard's
if you don't believe major then don't, but don't act as if you know the truth
Out of curiosity if major get disqualified for match fixing in a game vs lambo which happened 4h before midnight... how about bunny vs shadown 10 min before midnight? And could we check all the games a pro player played the past 24h before the deadline? I'm sure there are many suspicious wins....
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
I don't see the point of you personally coaching Major though. I don't see it as irresponsible, i see major as the victim of shitty qualifier design. you should be allowed to leave a ladder game without getting kicked out of tournaments, lol. the fault here is blizzard's
if you don't believe major then don't, but don't act as if you know the truth
When have I ever stated that I KNOW the truth? All I know is what makes sense. What he did does not make sense unless he was extremely ignorant/short-sighted, or cheating. I'm not coaching him, I'm trying to determine the full truth. Saying that "maybe he will do things differently from now" was just a ray of hope -_-;
On April 10 2016 06:38 Jealous wrote: The conduct might not have been in the tournament proper, but it is quite logical to extend player integrity to a tournament's qualifier. If your actions before a tournament affect the tournament itself, it stands to logic that there should be rules and regulations about that. Throwing games to give people points is one such thing that has been historically known to be NOT okay in competitions. It makes complete sense, because you are impacting the chances of other people to participate, positively for some and negatively for others. Players should qualify for tournaments only on their own merit, not because someone is feeding another points.
This all hinges on the assumption that A: Major gave up wins to Lambo to help him qualify to WCS Europe and subsequently B: he wanted to disrupt the competition by doing so meaning he's a nasty cheater according to you.
So 4hours i think before the ladder ended i had 2 games vs lambo one on dusk and one on prion. one i left immediatly after i qued to go take my medicine and to the bathroom(wasnt feeling to well as already mentioned)since i forgotten to take it. and than we played again on prion and i lost i did a proxy reaper didnt work tried 1base banshee didnt work game went on for like 10mins and i lost. so those games are the suspicious ones are they suspcious? ofcourse they are if you just look at them without asking or knowing they fucking suspicious. but take in mind its 4hour before ladder lock ends and i didnt do it malisioucly at fucking all. also this same day i went like 6-2 vs lambo counting those game so if anything i took more points from him than he won from those 2games. this is one of their reasons.
And yet he only "gave" 2 wins to his teammate. One being a "leave" and the other being an actual game being played. Moreover, he ended up taking more points from Lambo than giving in subsequent games.
This claim that he was trying to help Lambo is just so full of shit. Outside of that hypothetical, there's literally no vested interest in him to fuck with the competition.
On April 10 2016 06:38 Jealous wrote: If I am pulling out of my driveway and I didn't look back because I didn't care enough to make sure I was behaving within the confines of the rules of the road, and I run over a person, should I just walk free? No, because even though I had no MOTIVE, I still committed the crime.
This is why I think you're a giant retard. You're automatically assuming and posting repeatedly, making the conclusion that Major is a cheater. You're saying that he shouldn't be allowed to defend himself and decrying his responses as mere excuses when there's literally no evidence that would suggest he OR his teammate gained anything from his ladder activity on another server. You're also ignoring a literal 6 years of tournament participation where has conducted himself appropriately. You're spinning a tale that has no basis in reality, just whatever dumbass fictional character flaws you're claiming exists. Your analogy is so full of shit.
On April 10 2016 06:38 Jealous wrote: He IS under contract. Earlier in the thread, or perhaps it was the other one, people brought up points from the Battle.net TOS (or maybe it was the WCS Qualifier TOS, but the distinction is not important). Major violated those points. He violated them after affirming that he would follow them. You know how when you install a program you have to agree to the "End User License Agreement" or whatever? Don't you have to do that when you sign up for Battle.net? He WAS given instructions on how to behave on the server, he just didn't follow them.
Other professional gamers playing without the intent of qualifying has no pertinence to his situation or actions, for two reasons. Firstly, because if other people jump off a cliff, that doesn't necessarily mean you should follow suit. Secondly, because Naniwa playing (hypothetically) to the best of his ability against others is actually to the benefit of the competition. It provides more games at a high level to more players. More games means more accurate rankings. Just because he can't qualify doesn't change that they still took the top players from the qualification round and just didn't include him. They still took the best players from the region with honest games under their belt. What Major does by giving free points has absolutely no relation to this.
I don't know how you can have this iron set assumption that Major was out to cheat and simultaneously make excuses for other players and claim they were probably helping the competition by also interfering with the competition.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
I don't see the point of you personally coaching Major though. I don't see it as irresponsible, i see major as the victim of shitty qualifier design. you should be allowed to leave a ladder game without getting kicked out of tournaments, lol. the fault here is blizzard's
if you don't believe major then don't, but don't act as if you know the truth
When have I ever stated that I KNOW the truth? All I know is what makes sense. What he did does not make sense unless he was extremely ignorant/short-sighted, or cheating. I'm not coaching him, I'm trying to determine the full truth. Saying that "maybe he will do things differently from now" was just a ray of hope -_-;
there's nothing extremely ignorant or short-sighted about leaving a ladder game :/
what is he supposed to do? his job is starcraft, so he plays starcraft to practice. where else is he going to practice if not the ladder? is he just supposed to fuck a day of practice because blizzard wants to? i'm going to tell my boss i'm not going to work on monday because- well shit i can't even think of a comparable example in the real world, lol.
this is just dumb shit from blizzard (as usual), don't blame major lol
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
Well I agree this does put a good precedent for the future. Actually I agree with a lot of what Jealous has written in this thread. Why would you queue for a game and then leave the second you see who you are playing? If you forgot to do something then you ask for a pause and if you are severely unprepared to play a game to the point that a pause would be too long then why queue in the first place? Sure this can happen but how likely is it really, it is farfetched.
Also if I understood the situation right Major played Lambo 4 times earlier that day and won, and then when the cut-off time was getting close and Major himself was safe he took two loses that makes absolutely no sense? If you guys don't think this is fishy, I mean come on. It makes perfect sense, play 100% when you aren't sure you can qualify yourself and then when you are safe you help a friend or whatever. I'm absolutely not saying this is what happened, I'm just saying it is plausible and I do understand Blizzards decision even though their way of going about it was horrendous.
We don't know what happened here but personally I think that its not acceptable for professionals to leave a game the second they see who they are playing when a tournament is on the line based on ladder points.
On April 10 2016 07:00 BeStFAN wrote: This all hinges on the assumption that A: Major gave up wins to Lambo to help him qualify to WCS Europe and subsequently B: he wanted to disrupt the competition by doing so meaning he's a nasty cheater according to you.
There is no such assumption. The facts are that he gave up wins to Lambo, and that this was happening during WCS Europe. You said there is no motive, and I presented a possible one.
On April 10 2016 07:00 BeStFAN wrote: And yet he only "gave" 2 wins to his teammate. One being a "leave" and the other being an actual game being played. Moreover, he ended up taking more points from Lambo than giving in subsequent games.
This claim that he was trying to help Lambo is just so full of shit. Outside of that hypothetical, there's literally no vested interest in him to fuck with the competition.
Quantity of games that he gave up doesn't matter. Quantity of games he won doesn't matter, because it hasn't been explicitly stated that he won those games afterwards. He could have won games earlier in the day, then when Lambo was like "shit I want to qualify and I'm not as high as I want to be," he asked Major to give him some wins. Anything is possible. Major could be telling the truth. You could be right. However, the only facts are that he gave him points for free, and that is against the rules. There is nothing to argue here. Motive and all else is irrelevant to the facts.
On April 10 2016 07:00 BeStFAN wrote: This is why I think you're a giant retard. You're automatically assuming and posting repeatedly, making the conclusion that Major is a cheater. You're saying that he shouldn't be allowed to defend himself and decrying his responses as mere excuses when there's literally no evidence that would suggest he OR his teammate gained anything from his ladder activity on another server. You're also ignoring a literal 6 years of tournament participation where has conducted himself appropriately. You're spinning a tale that has no basis in reality, just whatever dumbass fictional character flaws you're claiming exists. Your analogy is so full of shit.
I'm sorry, but you clearly didn't understand the analogy. The analogy obviously painted me, the driver pulling out of the driveway, as a person with no malicious intent (analogy: not trying to cheat) but who committed a crime (analogy: giving free points). I never said he shouldn't be allowed to defend himself. I didn't disqualify his responses as excuses, I probed them further for details and explanations because his actions DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. The evidence that his teammate has something to gain from his ladder activity is FREE POINTS.
Major might not have outright cheated in the past, IIRC. But, to say that his conduct was stellar is a stretch at best, since the BW days. My "tale" is ONLY based on the facts, and the suspicions that I have about his actions not making logical sense.
On April 10 2016 07:00 BeStFAN wrote: I don't know how you can have this iron set assumption that Major was out to cheat and simultaneously make excuses for other players and claim they were probably helping the competition by also interfering with the competition.
You really don't understand how Naniwa playing to the best of his ability is different from Major giving free wins? Really? I can't -_-;
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
I don't see the point of you personally coaching Major though. I don't see it as irresponsible, i see major as the victim of shitty qualifier design. you should be allowed to leave a ladder game without getting kicked out of tournaments, lol. the fault here is blizzard's
if you don't believe major then don't, but don't act as if you know the truth
When have I ever stated that I KNOW the truth? All I know is what makes sense. What he did does not make sense unless he was extremely ignorant/short-sighted, or cheating. I'm not coaching him, I'm trying to determine the full truth. Saying that "maybe he will do things differently from now" was just a ray of hope -_-;
there's nothing extremely ignorant or short-sighted about leaving a ladder game :/
what is he supposed to do? his job is starcraft, so he plays starcraft to practice. where else is he going to practice if not the ladder? is he just supposed to fuck a day of practice because blizzard wants to? i'm going to tell my boss i'm not going to work on monday because- well shit i can't even think of a comparable example in the real world, lol.
this is just dumb shit from blizzard (as usual), don't blame major lol
I was referring more to the fact that he knew he was too sick to play consistently but continued to do so after the first instance, and in the process fed people free points during the last 24 hours of a ladder qualifier. That strikes me as very short-sighted.
He could have practiced with his teammate(s) in custom games, or on a server that was not going through a qualifier at the time (they weren't all at the same time, were they?), or on an account where match making wouldn't put him up against players who are within striking distance of the qualifier, or he could have stayed in bed and tried to get healthy, or he could have watched VODs/reps. Plenty of things he could have done that would be in line with his needs as a progamer that did not involve giving free points during a qualifier.
Here's a comparable example - "Boss, as soon as I start [[job]], I have to run to the bathroom and take my medicine. This has been going on all day. I can't make it to [[work]] today."
That was actually surprisingly simple.
Once again I will reiterate that while Blizzard's actions aren't perfect, Major has to shoulder blame for his actions and indiscretions as well.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
On April 10 2016 07:20 Jealous wrote: There is no such assumption. The facts are that he gave up wins to Lambo, and that this was happening during WCS Europe. You said there is no motive, and I presented a possible one.
On April 10 2016 07:20 Jealous wrote: Quantity of games that he gave up doesn't matter. Quantity of games he won doesn't matter, because it hasn't been explicitly stated that he won those games afterwards. He could have won games earlier in the day, then when Lambo was like "shit I want to qualify and I'm not as high as I want to be," he asked Major to give him some wins. Anything is possible. Major could be telling the truth. You could be right. However, the only facts are that he gave him points for free, and that is against the rules. There is nothing to argue here. Motive and all else is irrelevant to the facts.
You present a possible one that's completely debunked by the fact that Major took more ladder points from Lambo than gave. You hinge your possible motive on ONE game left and another ACTUAL GAME (PROXY, BANSHEE) played. You ignore the fact that he ended up taking 6 games from Lambo.
You're spinning a tale of possibilities and leading people into the conclusion that Major is had a hand in cheating when the evidence points to no. "Motive and all else is irrelevant to the facts." "Quantity of games that he gave up doesn't matter. Quantity of games he won doesn't matter, because it hasn't been explicitly stated that he won those games afterwards." Yeah because WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED doesn't fit into your made-up worthless narrative.
On April 10 2016 07:20 Jealous wrote: I didn't disqualify his responses as excuses, I probed them further for details and explanations because his actions DIDN'T MAKE SENSE. I never said he shouldn't be allowed to defend himself.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Do you realize actively hurting someone's reputation with your horrible responses??
On April 10 2016 07:20 Jealous wrote: The evidence that his teammate has something to gain from his ladder activity is FREE POINTS.
And that evidence is FALSE based on what's already been said, but again and again you claim that the actual details don't matter. Again: He ended up TAKING more ladder points than GIVING at the end of the day; and one of the losses WAS in fact a game played.
And then you vaguely proclaim that the evidence implicated major when the evidence clearly doesn't.
On April 10 2016 07:20 Jealous wrote: Major might not have outright cheated in the past, IIRC. But, to say that his conduct was stellar is a stretch at best, since the BW days.
Cut the bullshit. What kind of worthless response is this. You agree he hasn't outright cheated but now imply some sort of bad behavior?
On April 10 2016 07:20 Jealous wrote: You really don't understand how Naniwa playing to the best of his ability is different from Major giving free wins?
You claim Major is interrupting the competition regardless of circumstances by him simply leaving and participating in the EU ladder when there's a competition going on, and yet you depict another player doing the same (participating in another region) as something completely unrelated.
On April 10 2016 07:20 Jealous wrote: My "tale" is ONLY based on the facts, and the suspicions that I have about his actions not making logical sense.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
Well, the last time, I did a triple post, I was banned for 2 days. I just hope, TL applies the same rules to all its users.
And in your case, you either break the rules of TeamLiquid pages intentionally, or you are too stupid to read and understand them. Right? Or you are just not interested in studying the rules, as was my case. In any case, you deserve the punishment, right? Is this the same case as you are trying to make against Major?
I understand your points, but do not necessarily agree with all of them. I see only one problem, that this has happened with his teammate. But there are so many reasons for not taking it so heavily (6:2. 4 hours before the close ...)
Come to think of it, I've been leaving a lot of games in unranked or ranked over the years if I didnt feel like playing the map/matchup. Hope Blizzard doesnt ban me for match-fixing LOL
On April 10 2016 07:38 BeStFAN wrote: You present a possible one that's completely debunked by the fact that Major took more ladder points from Lambo than gave. You hinge your possible motive on ONE game left and another ACTUAL GAME (PROXY, BANSHEE) played. You ignore the fact that he ended up taking 6 games from Lambo.
You're spinning a tale of possibilities and leading people into the conclusion that Major is had a hand in cheating when the evidence points to no. "Motive and all else is irrelevant to the facts." "Quantity of games that he gave up doesn't matter. Quantity of games he won doesn't matter, because it hasn't been explicitly stated that he won those games afterwards." Yeah because WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED doesn't fit into your made-up worthless narrative.
It's not debunked whatsoever. As Shuffleblade mentioned above, it is quite possible that the wins came earlier in the day, the losses came when his teammate was desperate close to the end of the qualifier. Again, the evidence points to YES. Why was he on Europe server, playing against his teammate, giving him a free win? Motive IS irrelevant to the facts. Quantity of games DO NOT matter. All that matters is that he gave free points. With the evidence we have so far (only his testimony and a summary of his discussion with Blizzard), this is what we have to work with.
Do you realize actively hurting someone's reputation with your horrible responses??
So by discussing rationally the situation which is already undergoing investigation and has already resulted in a ban, I am the one who is at fault? Ok. Maybe he shouldn't have been giving up wins to his teammate when he knew he was sick to play. I think that would have done more for his reputation. I've never once before spoken ill of him and would have no reason to do so now. Unfortunately, that is not the situation now. If my deductions affect his reputation, then it is on their merit. If they have merit, then there is truth to them. If there is truth to them, then it is deserved.
And that evidence is FALSE based on what's already been said, but again and again you claim that the actual details don't matter. Again: He ended up TAKING more ladder points than GIVING at the end of the day; and one of the losses WAS in fact a game played.
And then you vaguely proclaim that the evidence implicated major when the evidence clearly doesn't.
Except it is true.
Teammate: -10 points Lost -10 points Lost -10 points Lost -10 poinst Lost ~~LATER~~ +10 points GIVEN FOR FREE +10 points Won, could have been a legit game or given for free, inconclusive given current data
Regardless of how many points exchanged hands, it's the crime of GIVING FREE POINTS.
Cut the bullshit. What kind of worthless response is this. You agree he hasn't outright cheated but now imply some sort of bad behavior?
Cheating isn't the only way a player can behave "inappropriately," so I'm simply answering your statement to the contrary.
Major's explanation sounds kinda fishy and childish... If you don't feel like playing, get rest and don't play, but don't come up with weird excuses.
That being said, this whole ladder qualifying thing doesn't seem to work out well if these cases of early-leaving can't be sorted out somehow. I mean, if someone has urgent business to do for whatever reasons and can't expect the opponent to wait for several minutes, one just leaves the game, simple as that, it's on Blizzard's end to determine potential abuse, but just coming up with a ban regarding a certain player without presenting investigative data to back-up that decision is certainly frustrating and unsatisfying - for both players and audience.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
Well, the last time, I did a triple post, I was banned for 2 days. I just hope, TL applies the same rules to all its users.
And in your case, you either break the rules of TeamLiquid pages intentionally, or you are too stupid to read and understand them. Right? Or you are just not interested in studying the rules, as was my case. In any case, you deserve the punishment, right? Is this the same case as you are trying to make against Major?
I understand your points, but do not necessarily agree with all of them. I see only one problem, that this has happened with his teammate. But there are so many reasons for not taking it so heavily (6:2. 4 hours before the close ...)
With situations like that, you have to consider context. I am responding to three different people, one of which is a very lengthy post that took me some time to write, which I was writing while the others were posted. I find it easier to have discussions with multiple people if I don't have 1 megapost with 6+ quotes in it. Your situation might have been different.
That's right. If the moderators feel that my actions warrant a ban, I'll take it. However, I don't believe that the situation is a good parallel. Major went out of his way to play on a different server and he ended up giving free points, which violate a tournament's qualifier. That's a pretty big deal. My using separate posts to answer multiple multi-paragraph discussions seems to me like a logical approach to the situation, and is not that big of a deal.
I respect your opinion. I'm glad to see civil discourse is still an option.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote: [quote] Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
Well, the last time, I did a triple post, I was banned for 2 days. I just hope, TL applies the same rules to all its users.
And in your case, you either break the rules of TeamLiquid pages intentionally, or you are too stupid to read and understand them. Right? Or you are just not interested in studying the rules, as was my case. In any case, you deserve the punishment, right? Is this the same case as you are trying to make against Major?
I understand your points, but do not necessarily agree with all of them. I see only one problem, that this has happened with his teammate. But there are so many reasons for not taking it so heavily (6:2. 4 hours before the close ...)
With situations like that, you have to consider context. I am responding to three different people, one of which is a very lengthy post that took me some time to write, which I was writing while the others were posted. I find it easier to have discussions with multiple people if I don't have 1 megapost with 6+ quotes in it. Your situation might have been different.
That's right. If the moderators feel that my actions warrant a ban, I'll take it. However, I don't believe that the situation is a good parallel. Major went out of his way to play on a different server and he ended up giving free points, which violate a tournament's qualifier. That's a pretty big deal. My using separate posts to answer multiple multi-paragraph discussions seems to me like a logical approach to the situation, and is not that big of a deal.
I respect your opinion. I'm glad to see civil discourse is still an option.
Of course. I fully understand and I think, a triple post in such a lengthy discussion is reasonable when you answer to three different people. But when I was banned and had no idea in this stupid non-multiple posts policy, I was also answering to three different people. So I hope, you will not be banned as this would just stress, how stupid the rule is. But it is a rule, right? So I read in this thread some people arguing that there are rules, when you break them, you have to take the consequences.
In this case, the 1. FIRST POINT of everything was the way of communication with the player and investigation from Blizzard (none). That is bad. Seriously bad. Had they made an official statement, where they would stress the fact that this happened with his team mate and HOW DID THIS HELP HIM, people would understand it.
2. SECOND POINT is what Major did by "playing with the EU ladder" in such crucial moments. That was stupid, as well as some arguing that he needed to take medicine ... Had he said, he had a visit or needed to RUN to the toilet, nobody could say anything. This IS seriously stupid. Imagine, now, every player competing in some higher ranks, will have to shit into his pants if something similar happens to him. Or if he has a phone call. Or a visitor. That is stupid. 6:2 is stupid. 4 hours before the end is stupid. But all this is nothing compared to the lack of communication and checking before making the decision in the FIRST POINT.
I'm with you Jealous. I hope this sets precedent for the future competitions, and players actually learn something, aka "think before you queue a game in a ladder race that's being used for something important".
And before someone comes to ask me "hey what if I wanna leave a game? I cannot do it now? huh?" Yes you can. But you will face consequences.
Oh and more importantly I hope Blizzard also learns about their limitations to do things. They're handling everything that has to do with rules pretty badly.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: [quote] So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
[quote]
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
Well, the last time, I did a triple post, I was banned for 2 days. I just hope, TL applies the same rules to all its users.
And in your case, you either break the rules of TeamLiquid pages intentionally, or you are too stupid to read and understand them. Right? Or you are just not interested in studying the rules, as was my case. In any case, you deserve the punishment, right? Is this the same case as you are trying to make against Major?
I understand your points, but do not necessarily agree with all of them. I see only one problem, that this has happened with his teammate. But there are so many reasons for not taking it so heavily (6:2. 4 hours before the close ...)
With situations like that, you have to consider context. I am responding to three different people, one of which is a very lengthy post that took me some time to write, which I was writing while the others were posted. I find it easier to have discussions with multiple people if I don't have 1 megapost with 6+ quotes in it. Your situation might have been different.
That's right. If the moderators feel that my actions warrant a ban, I'll take it. However, I don't believe that the situation is a good parallel. Major went out of his way to play on a different server and he ended up giving free points, which violate a tournament's qualifier. That's a pretty big deal. My using separate posts to answer multiple multi-paragraph discussions seems to me like a logical approach to the situation, and is not that big of a deal.
I respect your opinion. I'm glad to see civil discourse is still an option.
Of course. I fully understand and I think, a triple post in such a lengthy discussion is reasonable when you answer to three different people. But when I was banned and had no idea in this stupid non-multiple posts policy, I was also answering to three different people. So I hope, you will not be banned as this would just stress, how stupid the rule is. But it is a rule, right? So I read in this thread some people arguing that there are rules, when you break them, you have to take the consequences.
In this case, the 1. FIRST POINT of everything was the way of communication with the player and investigation from Blizzard (none). That is bad. Seriously bad. Had they made an official statement, where they would stress the fact that this happened with his team mate and HOW DID THIS HELP HIM, people would understand it.
2. SECOND POINT is what Major did by "playing with the EU ladder" in such crucial moments. That was stupid, as well as some arguing that he needed to take medicine ... Had he said, he had a visit or needed to RUN to the toilet, nobody could say anything. This IS seriously stupid. Imagine, now, every player competing in some higher ranks, will have to shit into his pants if something similar happens to him. Or if he has a phone call. Or a visitor. That is stupid. 6:2 is stupid. 4 hours before the end is stupid. But all this is nothing compared to the lack of communication and checking before making the decision in the FIRST POINT.
Well, TeamLiquid also says "our house, our rules," and as a result some people get more or less leniency on such matters, and this is well-known. EDIT: Got a warning, can't complain.
Not that I was intentionally testing the waters, but I thought I acted within reason. I can't say the same thing about the original topic of this analogy.
1. As I've said before, I don't think Blizzard's actions were optimal, so I agree with you here.
2. I agree with the first part of what you said, but I do think you are overlooking other outcomes. For example, a player can pause the game and provide an explanation for the pause, and then the outcome is likely to be completely different from what we see here. You are also overlooking incident density. By his own admission, Major said that this was a problem throughout the whole day. If you have a guest at the door today, and then a phone call a week from now, and then you forgot you left your oven on another week later, I doubt the reaction would be the same (although you could f10 PP on these issues as well). As you mentioned, this is also time and location sensitive: EU ladder during qualifier's last day, the benefactor being a teammate. Therefore, even if it was 6:2 for the whole day and even if 4 hours (I don't think this is much time at all, to be honest), there are far more factors at play that separate Major from RandomGM#143 who needs to take a sudden dump during countdown. And even then, wouldn't most RandomGM in that scenario hold it for 10 seconds and F10 PP? I just think there are too many holes and circumstances that throw shade on Major's conduct.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: [quote] So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
[quote]
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
Well, the last time, I did a triple post, I was banned for 2 days. I just hope, TL applies the same rules to all its users.
And in your case, you either break the rules of TeamLiquid pages intentionally, or you are too stupid to read and understand them. Right? Or you are just not interested in studying the rules, as was my case. In any case, you deserve the punishment, right? Is this the same case as you are trying to make against Major?
I understand your points, but do not necessarily agree with all of them. I see only one problem, that this has happened with his teammate. But there are so many reasons for not taking it so heavily (6:2. 4 hours before the close ...)
With situations like that, you have to consider context. I am responding to three different people, one of which is a very lengthy post that took me some time to write, which I was writing while the others were posted. I find it easier to have discussions with multiple people if I don't have 1 megapost with 6+ quotes in it. Your situation might have been different.
That's right. If the moderators feel that my actions warrant a ban, I'll take it. However, I don't believe that the situation is a good parallel. Major went out of his way to play on a different server and he ended up giving free points, which violate a tournament's qualifier. That's a pretty big deal. My using separate posts to answer multiple multi-paragraph discussions seems to me like a logical approach to the situation, and is not that big of a deal.
I respect your opinion. I'm glad to see civil discourse is still an option.
Of course. I fully understand and I think, a triple post in such a lengthy discussion is reasonable when you answer to three different people. But when I was banned and had no idea in this stupid non-multiple posts policy, I was also answering to three different people. So I hope, you will not be banned as this would just stress, how stupid the rule is. But it is a rule, right? So I read in this thread some people arguing that there are rules, when you break them, you have to take the consequences.
In this case, the 1. FIRST POINT of everything was the way of communication with the player and investigation from Blizzard (none). That is bad. Seriously bad. Had they made an official statement, where they would stress the fact that this happened with his team mate and HOW DID THIS HELP HIM, people would understand it.
2. SECOND POINT is what Major did by "playing with the EU ladder" in such crucial moments. That was stupid, as well as some arguing that he needed to take medicine ... Had he said, he had a visit or needed to RUN to the toilet, nobody could say anything. This IS seriously stupid. Imagine, now, every player competing in some higher ranks, will have to shit into his pants if something similar happens to him. Or if he has a phone call. Or a visitor. That is stupid. 6:2 is stupid. 4 hours before the end is stupid. But all this is nothing compared to the lack of communication and checking before making the decision in the FIRST POINT.
I will address your second point, as I have already done earlier in this thread: *enter* pp *enter"-> pause game and run to the toilet. How hard can it be, I've done this on multiple occasions and my opponents have usually been waiting for me when I get back. But what do I know, maybe Majors teammate is a total douche so he knew he would never allow a pause XD
Pros stop playing ladder with accounts that are connected to you. Return to the barcodes.
I mean really, 1 left game, one lost all in? Thats Wintrading? Back in the day, when there have been ladder challenges with Warcraft III for Blizzard Events, wintrading was with dozens of wins. We are now talking about one left game and one lost all in?
But hey, the same people who commited WCS 2016... why do I wonder, please never give us "ladder challenges" on KR Server.
On April 10 2016 08:32 Clonester wrote: The only conclusion of this:
Pros stop playing ladder with accounts that are connected to you. Return to the barcodes.
I mean really, 1 left game, one lost all in? Thats Wintrading? Back in the day, when there have been ladder challenges with Warcraft III for Blizzard Events, wintrading was with dozens of wins. We are now talking about one left game and one lost all in?
But hey, the same people who commited WCS 2016... why do I wonder, please never give us "ladder challenges" on KR Server.
That's not the only conclusion of this. That's a side-step that would lead to more issues down the line, with barcodes being connected to players' IPs and MAC addresses and the like.
Just because it was worse before, doesn't mean that we should stick to the way things were. When the points separating qualification and top 10 is in the low double digits IIRC, then even 1 free win can impact the standings, and 1 free win can force an honest, deserving player out of the standings. It might not be as big of an affront to authority as dozens of free wins, but it cannot be overlooked.
On April 10 2016 08:28 Silvana wrote: I'm with you Jealous. I hope this sets precedent for the future competitions, and players actually learn something, aka "think before you queue a game in a ladder race that's being used for something important".
And before someone comes to ask me "hey what if I wanna leave a game? I cannot do it now? huh?" Yes you can. But you will face consequences.
Oh and more importantly I hope Blizzard also learns about their limitations to do things. They're handling everything that has to do with rules pretty badly.
lmao - lets not kid ourselves; these are just foreigners - whoever qualifies is going to be rekt at Blizzcon by the actual pros anyway
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
User was warned for this post
Well if you agree their decision was likely overly hasty then we're still on the same page in a strange way. That's really what I'm trying to get at. The way they have handled this is not good.
I don't really understand blizzard in this. They are hunting down the bad guys abusing the ladder system but don't see the flaws in it? Free win? Big deal, cut the win points from every game under 90s or sth while still taking the loss points. They can even do this after the time for qualification is run out!
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
User was warned for this post
Well if you agree their decision was likely overly hasty then we're still on the same page in a strange way. That's really what I'm trying to get at. The way they have handled this is not good.
in another hand, tournament was about to start, the only way to not be hasty would have been to do nothing at all and never punish Major.
I think we can agree that banning a player retrospectively is the worst thing you can do : he already has eliminated people, so it forces you to replay the whole thing or to let these player be eliminated in an unfair way
On April 10 2016 08:32 Clonester wrote: The only conclusion of this:
Pros stop playing ladder with accounts that are connected to you. Return to the barcodes.
I mean really, 1 left game, one lost all in? Thats Wintrading? Back in the day, when there have been ladder challenges with Warcraft III for Blizzard Events, wintrading was with dozens of wins. We are now talking about one left game and one lost all in?
But hey, the same people who commited WCS 2016... why do I wonder, please never give us "ladder challenges" on KR Server.
That's not the only conclusion of this. That's a side-step that would lead to more issues down the line, with barcodes being connected to players' IPs and MAC addresses and the like.
Just because it was worse before, doesn't mean that we should stick to the way things were. When the points separating qualification and top 10 is in the low double digits IIRC, then even 1 free win can impact the standings, and 1 free win can force an honest, deserving player out of the standings. It might not be as big of an affront to authority as dozens of free wins, but it cannot be overlooked.
1 Win (arround 10 points) changing the ranking is not a real argument, as you can never call 1 lost game wintrading, even when someone loses his game by leaving after 30 secs. There are 1 Million reasons to leave a single game, even as a pro. Phonecall by family-members or any other important person, the guy who you life with has a problem and needs your help, sudden attack of diarrhea, you just spoiled your drink on your laptop, sudden migraine attack, a spaceshuttle crashed into your hood or whatever else. It is still a ladder game, not a tournament game, even when the ladder game counts to some abstract ladder points which will qualify you for a qualifier. When you start shouting wintrading or "match fixing" after one left game in the grand master ladder, then we are on very very thin ice. And no, you cant "just pause" for every of these reasons, as first of all, you dont want to stop your opponent from laddering by pausing for 10 minutes and other things just make you to stop playing at all.
Aslong there is no "evidence", that both players actually had contact with each other and searched for a game synch on purpose, you cant ban someone for 1 "traded" win. This is way to thin.
The answer for pros to protect their "brand" is to stop being part of these contests, not to "behave" honest and be a "deserving" player. Because this accusation can happen to any pro, everyone is sometimes in the need of leaving a game for a reason that "could be made up".
And if we start excluding players from events because of their behaviour on ladder (and as Major says, it is unlikely he is allowed to play server qualifiers), these events will be empty soon.
On April 10 2016 05:26 Jealous wrote: The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
What rules did he break? What kind of benefits did he gain by leaving games on a ladder region that doesn't affect his tournament region or give him any money.
If this was tournament play then obviously leaving games early would be in bad taste but it's just ladder games. Practice. Is he not allowed to click the button and play SC2 in EU? Should Chris Lee aka Illusion be punished for taking ladder points from Pokebunny when he's a retired player?
This is just bullshit and you're full of crap saying majors either retarded or a cheater.
So your contention is that he can give free points to people in that ladder region, for whom the points DO matter, because it's not HIS region. That makes a lot of sense.
You've presented absolutely no counter-argument and are arguing with feelings not logic.
On April 10 2016 05:54 Blargh wrote:
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play on short notice, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
Really??? It's the ladder. People are known for not caring about the ladder. Especially when it's just a smurf account on EU ladder. Like, the only reason he's playing it is for practice. He could care less whether he wins his next game.
The way Blizzard handled this is really dumb. Even if Major did intentionally leave the games because he didn't care, and his team mate would benefit (honestly, I doubt Major cares about his team mate that much), they need more proof than him just leaving the game. That's just dumb. If they have more proof, then whatever, that solves that. But from the information that we have, it looks like they made a shitty decision.
There is some definite flaws with the current qualification system in place, I don't think even Blizzard wants to deny that. They wanted the ladder to be a nice competitive environment, and it's a sort of cool way to do qualifiers for tournaments. But the ladder is open to ANYONE. People can throw games right and left if they wanted to. Like, Naniwa for instance, who opted (?) not to participate in the thing, could have left 20 games at the start. There's nothing really stopping him from doing so. Likewise, Major can as well, because he's just playing on EU ladder for fun. That's actually what the ladder is for. Light practice. It is not some sanctioned competitive PvP qualifier.
Also your analogy is dumb. The thing is, you don't ban people from tournaments if it can't be proven. That would be really stupid. You should have legitimate proof what his intentions were, and if all you have are a couple of replays of the guy leaving early against a bunch of people, and even a couple team mates, I would say the only APPROPRIATE thing for Blizzard to do would be to 1) give Major et al. a warning. Maybe say that leaving the game early, and playing without the intention to win every game is not allowed, and future incidents will result in a DQ... 2) revise their rules making it CLEAR that leaving games during these qualifiers will result in penalties/negative consequences. If they want, they can even make it a rule that one cannot play on a different ladder during qualifier times, or they will be disqualified from participating in their own region I guess.
Your point is that because professional players never cared about ladder, that they should continue not doing so when ladder has added meaning, namely qualification and money. This is the equivalent of not caring if your shoes are tied when you are sitting on your couch vs. when you're running in a marathon and could trip, fall, and injure other players near you, letting other players get ahead. That makes a lot of sense.
If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision. I'm pointing out the fact that Major had to make a lot of bad decisions or be incredibly shortsighted given the nature of the event. As a progamer, I'm sure you have to give some thought to the nature of the competition and how best to approach it and what not to do. Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating. It's HIS responsibility to be aware of his impact on the tournament, as a professional gamer. Note the first word in that title: professional. It's not just regular ladder games that he shouldn't care about and he should have known this. There's really no excuse that would overrule that. It's either one of 3 things, I will add one to my previous list:
1. Major didn't care enough to think about what impact his games would have on a tournament, which is dumb and unprofessional. 2. Major did care but didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing, which given the fact that it was a chronic issue over that period of time (his illness and inability to play), is even more dumb. 3. Major did it on purpose and gave free points to a teammate.
In the end, I don't find any of the three to be acceptable mindsets for a "progamer."
i didnt do in on purpose. and i would like to point out why blizzard didnt ban bunny or shadownb? when he left a game 10MINS before lockdown. blantly giving bunny free pts. mine was 4hours before lockdown?
But after you gave up a game for free once or couldn't play well because you were sick once, you kept playing right? So it's clear that you were aware of your condition and your actions. Are you saying you weren't clear on how the ladder system works? That's not only your fault, but also incredibly myopic and unprofessional.
Please, don't bring up other people as a defense for your own situation. Yes, you might look at what happened/did not happen to other people and feel that it is unfair. You might even be right, that it is unfair. However, if what you're saying is true, then you and every other person who gave free points should have been banned/warned, not that you and every other person who gave free points SHOULDN'T have been banned/warned. Again, I'm not looking at Blizzard's actions here, but at YOU and YOUR actions. Deflecting to Bunny and Blizzard and 4 hours vs. 10 minutes does not solve anything.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't see the point of attacking major like this who got fucked over what is a technicality until proven otherwise.
There are flaws with the ladder qualifier thing and it's showing up right now. The way Blizzard is handling this is similarly quite bad. Please be at least aware of that.
The point of "attacking" Major is that I sincerely feel that he is lying about not being aware of the consequences of his actions, but as it is a "dog ate my homework" scenario there is no definitive proof. So, I approached the matter by presenting him with all the information that he should have been aware of and questioning him on whether he really is that irresponsible/short-sighted. Maybe it will change the way he approaches situations like these in the future. This is all assuming he didn't do it intentionally.
On April 10 2016 06:10 Jealous wrote: If you will note, I never said the system is perfect, or that it doesn't have flaws. I never defended Blizzard's ladder system at all. Nor did I defend Blizzard's immediate decision to ban with no notice. I think a warning would be an acceptable approach to the situation, and a public notification of the situation. However, I will defend the fact that this sets a precedent that is important. Blizzard is making it clear that doing such stuff isn't acceptable when it is running a ladder event, which is completely in their right, regardless of how players may feel about it.
I don't even really want to talk about the ladder qualifier details, or Blizzard's decision...
Giving free points in a ladder qualifier is supremely stupid if it's not done as outright cheating.
Of course I'm aware of that. Did you read what you quoted?
Unlike the "dog ate my homework scenario" which is obviously extremely unlikely, there can be many real reasons for leaving a ladder game which happen all the time. When deciding whether he should be banned or not it doesn't matter whether he was "unprofessional" from your vantage point. Blizzard should have a rule stating that players cannot leave games during a specified period of time when this ladder race is taking place if they're going to decide to jump the gun and straight up ban him when they cannot prove what his intentions were.
As mentioned above, those reasons are not exactly relevant to the matter at hand, because he already knew he was sick and that he had issues that could prevent him from playing consistently. However, he chose to do so anyway. It was a chronic situation, not a spontaneous friend at the door or phone call. There was something posted earlier which did say "players have to play to the best of their ability," or what not. I do agree that their decision may have been overly hasty, based on the evidence we have been provided.
User was warned for this post
and if it would have been a phone call or a spontaneous friend at the door? Blizzard banned him without asking him for his reasons so that could have happened just as likely.
Thinking of playing some ladder tomorrow morning but had a very spicy Indian for dinner... hmm...... might swerve the ladder then.... Let's play customs instead....
Whole thing seems like an utter mess, just like Major's bathroom on that fateful day.
Seriously though, I personally don't think he would cheat by throwing games, and also I know how things can come up that cause you to leave games after they've begun. Granted in hindsight you shouldn't have entered in the first place, but how are you to know every time someone is about to knock on the door, phone etc. Call of nature and feeling unwell can also be a valid reason.
On April 10 2016 08:32 Clonester wrote: The only conclusion of this:
Pros stop playing ladder with accounts that are connected to you. Return to the barcodes.
I mean really, 1 left game, one lost all in? Thats Wintrading? Back in the day, when there have been ladder challenges with Warcraft III for Blizzard Events, wintrading was with dozens of wins. We are now talking about one left game and one lost all in?
But hey, the same people who commited WCS 2016... why do I wonder, please never give us "ladder challenges" on KR Server.
That's not the only conclusion of this. That's a side-step that would lead to more issues down the line, with barcodes being connected to players' IPs and MAC addresses and the like.
Just because it was worse before, doesn't mean that we should stick to the way things were. When the points separating qualification and top 10 is in the low double digits IIRC, then even 1 free win can impact the standings, and 1 free win can force an honest, deserving player out of the standings. It might not be as big of an affront to authority as dozens of free wins, but it cannot be overlooked.
These rules mean that pros cannot play anytime they want for practice or for fun anymore. It's stupid. Ladder shouldn't be connected to any serious tournament. It's a joke.
On April 10 2016 04:31 Incognoto wrote: Not only is Blizzard's decision making horrible, but it's transparency is also really bad.
Really Blizzard I wonder why you can't just leave Starcraft alone?
Because they lost out on so much potential money from Starcraft and WC3 (via DOTA) when they had a hands off approach.
On April 10 2016 02:54 -Kyo- wrote: This is actually pretty disgusting. Wonder when Blizzard is actually going to start firing people for doing a poor job?
I've been asking that same exact question since the moment I saw the Warhound in the HOTS Beta. I still can't believe no one was fired after they spent time and money developing that, and used up precious Beta time testing it.
There is zero, zero accountability at Blizzard. It is an old boys club, stuck in the 90's era where select IT "guru's" ruled over everything and could never be wrong.
Problem is, it is 2016, and garbage like "the technology just isn't there yet" fools exactly no one anymore.
I wish the cries would get louder from the sponsors, teams and people that matter in the scene, and force Blizzard's hand. It is time to clean house.
On April 10 2016 13:47 BronzeKnee wrote: Well, I think it could be looked at as match fixing because ladder is essentially a qualifier for tournaments that give money.
Make a seperate ladder if it's that important. This situation (and it potentially happening to more players) is ridiculous
Shouldn't trust Major's "0 proof 0 evidence" (that really is something guilty people usually say)
Innocent until proven guilty. Guilty people may say that sometimes but innocent people say it a lot more and it's insane to take a claim of innocence as admission of guilt or as evidence against someone.
It matters if Major did anything wrong here, but it also isn't about one player - It's fucked up x1000 that such a situation is even plausible
There's a huge difference between doping tests at live events (which already exist and can be set up in a sane way sometimes) and leaving games vs random people that you hit on the ladder being grounds for disqualification and banning from competitive events
^ I'm pretty sure hacking is out of David Kim's work scope. As much as I personally hate that guy, I do not approve of blaming him for this. His job has nothing to do with DQ people based on match fixing.
Blizzard should put a big waning message before every ladder game that counts for the qualifications (at least during the last 24 hours). Maybe with a clear agreement that you must accept or else the game won't even start (or won't give any points to players). This way players won't be able to say: well, it was just another regular ladder game...
Blizzard should put a big waning message before every ladder game that counts for the qualifications (at least during the last 24 hours). Maybe with a clear agreement that you must accept or else the game won't even start (or won't give any points to players)
Saying what, you better try 110% to win this game or else we'll ban you from tournaments and put you on the match fixer list? You can't play ladder this weekend?
At the moment this punishment only applies to this season's Copa America, however malicious intervention is a serious offense results so that may have major consequences.
It's ladder. People can influence the results without malicious intention just by playing the game as designed.
I do not get people saying they want to see the evidence. When you hear a murderer was sent to jail you do not want to see the evidence for yourself either... WTF, people?
You would think given the players notorious past he would do his best to keep himself squeaky clean. I personally agree with Blizzards decision. Why tarnish a tournament or its results by keeping him in it.
It is better for the remaining players and the future of Starcraft that all tournaments are kept without any form of corruption accidental or not as he claims.
The last think they need is more bad press when you consider whats happened recently in Korea.
I don't trust Major's word on this, his reasoning seems fishy (with the doctor's note and such). That doesn't mean he's guilty, though.
However, what I can say with utmost certainty is that the way Blizzard handled this isn't good. E-mailing some of the accused players and not doing the same for others isn't professional. I'm sure they have some proof behind the ban, as they wouldn't just do it "for the lulz" considering the major (pun intended) negative consequences, and for no gain. Whether the proof is enough to warrant the DQ is another question entirely.
Major admitting that he shared accounts with other progamers is good, because he's honest about it. Though, what worries me is that he considers it to be something that is fine to do. That leads me to believe he may have done something wrong but he genuinely doesn't realize it.
Both Blizzard and Major acted poorly in the situation which makes it difficult to judge who is right and who is wrong, especially with no proof given.
Here is what I'd say would be a good course of action:
1. Blizzard apologizes for their misconduct, and releases the proof for Major's DQ.
2. The community then takes a look and forms an opinion.
3. Major gets the chance to further explain himself in case he is guilty, and if not guilty based on the proof provided, a personal apology from Blizzard and some kind of compensation.
4. If Major's further explanation is sketchy, and the proof is more than incriminating, then he should be banned from participating in WCS events for the rest of 2016 due to attempting to mislead and lie about the situation and the actions taken in the game.
I don't see a better course of action for this. But saying that Major is completely right (or Blizzard) is far too early to state given the situation.
Blizzard should put a big waning message before every ladder game that counts for the qualifications (at least during the last 24 hours). Maybe with a clear agreement that you must accept or else the game won't even start (or won't give any points to players)
Saying what, you better try 110% to win this game or else we'll ban you from tournaments and put you on the match fixer list? You can't play ladder this weekend?
I know it is not a perfect solution. I don't like the idea of using the ladder for tournament qualifications too, but if they plan to continue with this, they should at least be clear that you cannot play the ladder the regular way during the qualification process.
After some thought, i can't see many good ways to go about it aside from having an opt-in ladder available to masters+ players for qualification. Ruining the regular ladder for a while leading into every season isn't good.
I miss the old WCS with koreans and Apollo, RedEye, ToD and the gang...Good old days. Now I have these threads that might be entertaining past time but not exactly the same. I hope Blizzard pays Major a lot of tacos for compensation if their accusations end up being unjustified.
This IS seriously stupid. Imagine, now, every player competing in some higher ranks, will have to shit into his pants if something similar happens to him. Or if he has a phone call. Or a visitor. That is stupid. 6:2 is stupid. 4 hours before the end is stupid. But all this is nothing compared to the lack of communication and checking before making the decision in the FIRST POINT.
"MOM... BATHROOM!.... BATHROOM!!" (Cartman) ^ Blizzard's vision for fair and honest competition
Public Ladder selection is insanely stupid to begin with.
I mean if there was any devs on sc2 left they could simply fork GM ladder for the week of competition and filter only people from the region and let them fight on this fork of ladder with clear tournament rules.
This honestly sends an image of starcraft 2 esport as very casual with Blizzard not having enough ressources to organize proper tournament so they use a wonky ladder selection.
Major getting banned from just suspicions is just insane. Blizzard is no better than BT TV in handling stuff like that. That says a lot.
It's funny how blizzard seems to be so intransigent. I mean when it's cheating or matchfixing in tournaments, sure. When it's abusing a system (ladder) which is already very stupid and abusable, that completly ridiculous.
I remember that one game in wcg (i think it was) when tasteless wanted to write glhf or something but accidentally pressed f10 qq to quit the game. Leaving one ladder game for some random reason is not enough to disqualify a professional player. To even think that is somewhat justifiable is madness.
Blizzard should put a big waning message before every ladder game that counts for the qualifications (at least during the last 24 hours). Maybe with a clear agreement that you must accept or else the game won't even start (or won't give any points to players)
Saying what, you better try 110% to win this game or else we'll ban you from tournaments and put you on the match fixer list? You can't play ladder this weekend?
I know it is not a perfect solution. I don't like the idea of using the ladder for tournament qualifications too, but if they plan to continue with this, they should at least be clear that you cannot play the ladder the regular way during the qualification process.
1 - I think that with this whole series of bans, it's quite clear to every pro gamer now.
2 - If you're not 100% pro and don't happen to be, nothing will ever prevent you from trying hard vs people you don't like and much less harder vs people you like - see Bunny's case. If you're on ladder for fun, you can to do what you want with your games, period.
3 - what is "Players must compete to the best of their ability at all time" (words from rulebook)? just a series of fancy words with no significance in real world. No one is at his maximum capacities at all time, you just get this when it really matters and when the pressure is high and adrenalin flow through your body.
For instance, was Polt at best of capabilities at all times when he lost to neeb and puck yesterday in the qualifier? did he really play like he was on stage for a WCS finals?
All in all, with this system nothing can be really done better than what we saw over the last few days.
The solution is more about rethinking the system, just like Nony did in his blog
On April 10 2016 21:55 FeyFey wrote: muscle memory ... awww its him I can't win glhf ... wait why did I quit ?!
Yea I have actually done this before LOL except I was deep in thought about what to do/expect while trying to "type"
I can totally imagine Tasteless doing this =D
Yeah, i once was playing ladder and winning a tight game. He typed gg, so out of muscle memory i answered his gg and promptly pressed f10+n after that. I guess i shouldn't be allowed to ladder anymroe :D
So Major didnt agree with the others players to fix a result, he only left because for whatever reason he just didnt feel like playing, so only affected his personal score, because overall he clearly took points from these players. I usually agree with hard punishments, but this has to be the most stupid ban that was made in video games history.
Even if it is one game given that doesn't impact the final result it is still grounds for an organizer to DQ you. Although the broken English is hard to decipher he seems to be taking the stance of being guilty and trying to defend it. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt since proof regarding this should be fairly easy to provide by the accusing party.
Also I wouldn't be surprised if his and marinelord's accounts are closed for sharing. To publicly state that is utterly moronic, not to mention backing it up with "Everybody is doing it!" logic.
Looks to be a pretty cut-and-dry issue so hopefully it doesn't drag out longer than it needs to.
Is it me or did Blizzard basically ragequit on Major ? Two wrongs don't make a right. Not sending him even an email about the situation is a disgrace and goes against the values they're trying to instill.
On April 10 2016 23:34 OtherWorld wrote: I wish a case like this would lead to the creation of a players' union
It absolutely 100% should.
SC2 players need a union so badly. Not only to protect them from garbage like this and clarify the rules, but also to push the game in the right direction.
It doesn't take much to start a union, just band together, elect representatives, and refuse to play at an upcoming tournament unless a bunch of demands are met.
On April 11 2016 01:57 calippo wrote: This goes hand in hand with Blizzard allowing AZK to play their game when he is permbanned by Valve for matchfixing in CS:GO, great job Blizzard.
Uum the same AZK that is part of Liquid's new overwatch team? Idk the story behind your claim but pretty rough thing to throw around.
On April 11 2016 03:39 Circumstance wrote: I'll be completely honest: This does seem like the kind of bad judgement Major would have in an out-of-game situation.
So, true :D
Edit: how on Earth did that comma sneak in there lol my English sucks
this is why you don't use the fucking ladder to choose who gets to play in the regional qualifiers, it's just a stupid idea. Every one should just sign up and play like it's an actual qualifier
I always thought that the 3 days given for this was too small. Perhaps if this was the ladder ranking over a longer period of time, 2 weeks to a month it'd work better. Or maybe taking an aggregate of the top 16, and using that instead.
If the goal is to help increase ladder play from the pros, only having it be for 3 days doesnt make too much sense, & imo just incentivizes players pulling shenanigans.
On April 11 2016 09:26 mikedebo wrote: Wait. What. Blizzard uses normal ladder matches as inputs to actual tournament qualification??? What in the actual f is this insanity???
On April 11 2016 09:26 mikedebo wrote: Wait. What. Blizzard uses normal ladder matches as inputs to actual tournament qualification??? What in the actual f is this insanity???
It's been on since season 1, it's just a side qualifier, top 16 gm compete for 2 spots and prize money in EU and NA,
On April 11 2016 09:26 mikedebo wrote: Wait. What. Blizzard uses normal ladder matches as inputs to actual tournament qualification??? What in the actual f is this insanity???
It's actually really awesome they just need to figure their rules and regulations.
On April 11 2016 09:26 mikedebo wrote: Wait. What. Blizzard uses normal ladder matches as inputs to actual tournament qualification??? What in the actual f is this insanity???
It's actually really awesome they just need to figure their rules and regulations.
This. It's a good idea they're just going about it wrong.
On April 11 2016 15:18 arb wrote: they still let this kid play in pro games? lolol. didnt you guys learn anything from him cheating in broodwar?
Everyone wants to hate on Blizzard more than look at the weak excuses he is making lol, typical really. Also a ton of people in this thread outright support him, it's crazy.
On April 11 2016 15:18 arb wrote: they still let this kid play in pro games? lolol. didnt you guys learn anything from him cheating in broodwar?
Everyone wants to hate on Blizzard more than look at the weak excuses he is making lol, typical really. Also a ton of people in this thread outright support him, it's crazy.
But very well. If you have a ladder qualifier, and ppl used to grind ladder all day for practise, but not exactly giving a fuck about the outcome....well what you expect. Sometimes even the Button for "Cancle Que" does not work...
There is zero chance of a players' union. Collective bargaining only works when there are giant owner-horded profits to bargain for. SC2 esports is a giant money loser.
On April 10 2016 13:02 BronzeKnee wrote: There is zero, zero accountability at Blizzard. It is an old boys club, stuck in the 90's era where select IT "guru's" ruled over everything and could never be wrong.
Problem is, it is 2016, and garbage like "the technology just isn't there yet" fools exactly no one anymore.
I wish the cries would get louder from the sponsors, teams and people that matter in the scene, and force Blizzard's hand. It is time to clean house.
there is zero accountability because eSports is a money loser. they are donating cash into the scene so they can do anything they want. no indy league will ever rise up because there is no cash in it at all. Unless you think BTTV can seriously put together a legit competitor league to WCS... and i really doubt that.
Also, they are not a 90's era group. Their biggest success was WoW from 2005 to 2010 and that success can't happen if they are partying like its 1999.
In general SC is a really low priority for Blizzard. We have their bottom of the barrel guys working on this stuff. Their best people are busy making real money in truly lucrative genres.<<hey Overwatch!>> you have 1 thing right about 90s era though....RTS is 90s era.
Since June 2010 the SC franchise accounts for less than 2% of ATVI's total revenue. The SC franchise is not worth their time and people around here are just going to have to swallow that because there is no competition for the SC franchise in teh RTS marketplace.
On April 11 2016 15:18 arb wrote: they still let this kid play in pro games? lolol. didnt you guys learn anything from him cheating in broodwar?
Everyone wants to hate on Blizzard more than look at the weak excuses he is making lol, typical really. Also a ton of people in this thread outright support him, it's crazy.
But these are the same people that probably worship last shadow as a god, and not a cheating hacking egotistical lying piece of shit like he really is
On April 11 2016 15:18 arb wrote: they still let this kid play in pro games? lolol. didnt you guys learn anything from him cheating in broodwar?
Everyone wants to hate on Blizzard more than look at the weak excuses he is making lol, typical really. Also a ton of people in this thread outright support him, it's crazy.
See this is why a few pages back people were saying that what you're mostly doing is attacking Major instead of actually looking for a fair answer.
There is more or less still no more evidence about this fiasco, nor is there a PR statement or anything. You aren't here to discuss the merits of Blizzard's decision, you're here to attack major. It makes sense that someone who gets punished for no apparent reason (perhaps there's a reason but so far it's only conjecture) gets support.
You're also bringing up old things which are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. What Major did in Brood War has nothing to do with the current situation and you bringing that up at all is a sign that you lack real substance behind your (personal) attacks on major. Nice of you to discredit yourself like that, we now know that you aren't actually looking to hear about what is true or not, you're looking to personally put down major.
Right now especially, it really seems that Major and the other players are more likely victim of Blizzard's poor organization of the ladder qualifier than they are cheaters who tried to exploit the system. Either way, so far what is factually correct is that : - Players are having their reputations (and as such their careers) damaged severely right now. - Lack of PR or more compelling evidence from Blizzard.
as someone who doesn't know major and has never followed his games... OH PLEASE... anyone with a brain can figure out there was clearly foul play going on. why would he even be on the EU ladder at such a crucial time if he wasn't trying to shake up the competition knowing he himself was ineligible to participate in the EU challenger. "I was sick and got diarrhea so I q'd and left instantly. oh and i have a doctor's note the same day i find out i got DQ'd"
Sorry Major... sucks they dished out this penalty to you but don't cry wolf when you were the wolf. And i seriously doubt don't they didn't contact or at least attempt to contact him through e-mail. check ALL your e-mails man.
All that being said, I also think the vague rules and guidelines didn't help this situation at all either. Blizzard is not without fault.
I love how people gets upset for "i can't leave a game ! what if something happens". Well you see... in CS... if you need to get your pizza out of the door; It's 30 minute bans.
Second time ? It's one hour ban.
Third time ? 1 day ban.
4th time ? (stop ordering pizza seriously) 7 DAY MOTHERFUCKER !
Imagine this system in SC2 ? With a ladder race ? You wouldn't leave a game or queue without thinking. I know it's not the same thing but people shitting on blizzard for this is kind of funny where i even saw post of saying : "Valve would have done better" stuff.
For me the only thing that Blizzard done wrong is :
"Not contacting the offender directly". That could be for : "Hey you are banned" or "We need explanation" or "You are banned from X tournaments because of suspicion that we need to sort out". But they need to contact the offender. From what i know, even if your account is banned you will be notified by blizzard. So they need to notify players. Maybe the tournaments organizer got word from blizzard and took the decision before Blizzard could contact him but that seems unlikely. I just think Blizzard fucked off somewhere. But only there.
Yes, that's their only mistake. (that and banning KR but hey. Their house, their rules.)
On April 11 2016 18:17 FFW_Rude wrote: I love how people gets upset for "i can't leave a game ! what if something happens". Well you see... in CS... if you need to get your pizza out of the door; It's 30 minute bans.
Second time ? It's one hour ban.
Third time ? 1 day ban.
4th time ? (stop ordering pizza seriously) 7 DAY MOTHERFUCKER !
Imagine this system in SC2 ? With a ladder race ? You wouldn't leave a game or queue without thinking. I know it's not the same thing but people shitting on blizzard for this is kind of funny where i even saw post of saying : "Valve would have done better" stuff.
For me the only thing that Blizzard done wrong is :
"Not contacting the offender directly". That could be for : "Hey you are banned" or "We need explanation" or "You are banned from X tournaments because of suspicion that we need to sort out". But they need to contact the offender. From what i know, even if your account is banned you will be notified by blizzard. So they need to notify players. Maybe the tournaments organizer got word from blizzard and took the decision before Blizzard could contact him but that seems unlikely. I just think Blizzard fucked off somewhere. But only there.
Yes, that's their only mistake. (that and banning KR but hey. Their house, their rules.)
The difference to CS GO is that there the players KNOW that they will get banned if they leave a game. Major didn't. and there is a difference between being banned for 30 mins (you only get higher bans if you leave multiple games in a certain time period) and being banned permanently from a qualifier and being labeled a matchfixer.
On April 11 2016 18:20 Cyro wrote: Why do people order pizza and queue anyway?
i'd do it. i don't mind leaving a game if something else comes up. better than waiting doing nothing :D
in starcraft that is.
i don't like lol because you're forced to commit time to a game or face dumb consequences. it's just waste of time in some cases, quite stupid. probably why i'm not playing cs:go either: cba to wait on team mates. 1V1 is where it's at
On April 11 2016 18:20 Cyro wrote: Why do people order pizza and queue anyway?
i'd do it. i don't mind leaving a game if something else comes up. better than waiting doing nothing :D
in starcraft that is.
i don't like lol because you're forced to commit time to a game or face dumb consequences. it's just waste of time in some cases, quite stupid. probably why i'm not playing cs:go either: cba to wait on team mates. 1V1 is where it's at
That's one of the biggest problems with large team games IMO
On April 11 2016 18:17 FFW_Rude wrote: I love how people gets upset for "i can't leave a game ! what if something happens". Well you see... in CS... if you need to get your pizza out of the door; It's 30 minute bans.
Second time ? It's one hour ban.
Third time ? 1 day ban.
4th time ? (stop ordering pizza seriously) 7 DAY MOTHERFUCKER !
Imagine this system in SC2 ? With a ladder race ? You wouldn't leave a game or queue without thinking. I know it's not the same thing but people shitting on blizzard for this is kind of funny where i even saw post of saying : "Valve would have done better" stuff.
For me the only thing that Blizzard done wrong is :
"Not contacting the offender directly". That could be for : "Hey you are banned" or "We need explanation" or "You are banned from X tournaments because of suspicion that we need to sort out". But they need to contact the offender. From what i know, even if your account is banned you will be notified by blizzard. So they need to notify players. Maybe the tournaments organizer got word from blizzard and took the decision before Blizzard could contact him but that seems unlikely. I just think Blizzard fucked off somewhere. But only there.
Yes, that's their only mistake. (that and banning KR but hey. Their house, their rules.)
You realize CS is a team game so if you leave your team probably loses? Whereas in sc2 if you leave your opponent is happy.
On April 11 2016 18:20 Cyro wrote: Why do people order pizza and queue anyway?
Probably because they are hungry and the delivery takes some time
Blizzard trial:
Blizzard v Player
Plaintiffs seek an injunction against the Defendant whereby the Defendant will leave "the pizza man" at the door until the ladder match has come to terms with a clear victor [to be recorded in the Blizzard ladder]. In the case of non-compliance, Plaintiffs will further seek pecuniary damages for the moral harm done to the community, as well as WCS, by the willful and reckless departure of the player from "the ladder game" by the Defendant.
On April 11 2016 17:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote: someone asked for a source on my "SC franchise made less than 2% of ATVIs revenue" so i might as well post it here.
$27.5 Billion from 2010 to 2015. Add another $4 billion in 2016 for ATVI while SC makes less than $0.05 Billion and it might even lose money.
WoL brought in less than $0.4 Billion. HotS and LotV both less than $0.1 Billion. Nothing big is coming in RTS from Blizzard in 2016. So this is it.
Well tbh the game itself isn't so great, the Campaigns besides WoL were bad (although many people disagree here on LotV), and given that Blizzard is trying his best to fuck up - tbh I'm not supporting that company anymore, won't buy Overwatch, I even stopped Heroes. All because I'm so disappointed at what they did with WCBullShit 2016.
On April 11 2016 18:20 Cyro wrote: Why do people order pizza and queue anyway?
i'd do it. i don't mind leaving a game if something else comes up. better than waiting doing nothing :D
in starcraft that is.
i don't like lol because you're forced to commit time to a game or face dumb consequences. it's just waste of time in some cases, quite stupid. probably why i'm not playing cs:go either: cba to wait on team mates. 1V1 is where it's at
I'd rather you waste your time than mine by dropping out on my game. That's why those types of rules exist. It's not that hard to not be selfish and go watch youtube for 10 minutes or so.
We need more evidence to know for sure...Of course it sounds pretty innocent from his perspective, but then again, others on here say he's done shady shit in the past. If there is compelling evidence it needs to come out for the community's sake.
On April 11 2016 18:20 Cyro wrote: Why do people order pizza and queue anyway?
i'd do it. i don't mind leaving a game if something else comes up. better than waiting doing nothing :D
in starcraft that is.
i don't like lol because you're forced to commit time to a game or face dumb consequences. it's just waste of time in some cases, quite stupid. probably why i'm not playing cs:go either: cba to wait on team mates. 1V1 is where it's at
I'd rather you waste your time than mine by dropping out on my game. That's why those types of rules exist. It's not that hard to not be selfish and go watch youtube for 10 minutes or so.
But being selfish is so much better than not being selfish.
SC2 right now has more drama than competiotions, really. So sad.
On April 11 2016 18:20 Cyro wrote: Why do people order pizza and queue anyway?
i'd do it. i don't mind leaving a game if something else comes up. better than waiting doing nothing :D
in starcraft that is.
i don't like lol because you're forced to commit time to a game or face dumb consequences. it's just waste of time in some cases, quite stupid. probably why i'm not playing cs:go either: cba to wait on team mates. 1V1 is where it's at
I'd rather you waste your time than mine by dropping out on my game. That's why those types of rules exist. It's not that hard to not be selfish and go watch youtube for 10 minutes or so.
You get a free-win, where's the issue?
Unless you're talking about LoL or CS:GO, but I don't play either game. So, I don't get it.
Unless you're talking about LoL or CS:GO, but I don't play either game. So, I don't get it.
The problem with the team games that have long matchmaking & games is that even with extremely harsh rules to punish people for leaving games, a lot of people still do it.
Not many, but it only takes one person out of 10 to mess up a 5v5 game.
On April 11 2016 18:20 Cyro wrote: Why do people order pizza and queue anyway?
i'd do it. i don't mind leaving a game if something else comes up. better than waiting doing nothing :D
in starcraft that is.
i don't like lol because you're forced to commit time to a game or face dumb consequences. it's just waste of time in some cases, quite stupid. probably why i'm not playing cs:go either: cba to wait on team mates. 1V1 is where it's at
Ok, wait a minute, you're a pro player competing for top 16 GM and a spot in the WCS spring qualifier now?
The only things that matter here are the way Major was disqualified (lack of contact = lack of class) and his honesty about the events (did he really had to leave right when he was facing a team mate? would he have left he was facing Bly? Blizzard seemed to choose the inflexible stance : ban if it's fishy for the competition's future sake)
The fact you're ordering pizzas in your casual ladder session is totally irrelevant.
On April 11 2016 20:49 Clonester wrote: They should just forbid leaving games. Up from now on, you have to fight till your last building falls on ladder.
Everything else could be wintrading.
As it turns out, Nerchio and Firecake were way ahead of everyone when it comes to not wintrading :-)
On April 11 2016 18:17 FFW_Rude wrote: I love how people gets upset for "i can't leave a game ! what if something happens". Well you see... in CS... if you need to get your pizza out of the door; It's 30 minute bans.
Second time ? It's one hour ban.
Third time ? 1 day ban.
4th time ? (stop ordering pizza seriously) 7 DAY MOTHERFUCKER !
Imagine this system in SC2 ? With a ladder race ? You wouldn't leave a game or queue without thinking. I know it's not the same thing but people shitting on blizzard for this is kind of funny where i even saw post of saying : "Valve would have done better" stuff.
For me the only thing that Blizzard done wrong is :
"Not contacting the offender directly". That could be for : "Hey you are banned" or "We need explanation" or "You are banned from X tournaments because of suspicion that we need to sort out". But they need to contact the offender. From what i know, even if your account is banned you will be notified by blizzard. So they need to notify players. Maybe the tournaments organizer got word from blizzard and took the decision before Blizzard could contact him but that seems unlikely. I just think Blizzard fucked off somewhere. But only there.
Yes, that's their only mistake. (that and banning KR but hey. Their house, their rules.)
The difference to CS GO is that there the players KNOW that they will get banned if they leave a game. Major didn't. and there is a difference between being banned for 30 mins (you only get higher bans if you leave multiple games in a certain time period) and being banned permanently from a qualifier and being labeled a matchfixer.
Yes. That's why i said the only thing they have done wrong is not contacting the offender to sort things out before taking a solution and making a communication.
And 30 minute bans 4hours before ladder lock would be really huge. (it's like 3 Lotv game) or maybe 2. And it's a bannable offense to leave games. Everyone knows that. It's just that people get banned so rarely. That's why people seems to not know that.
On April 11 2016 18:17 FFW_Rude wrote: I love how people gets upset for "i can't leave a game ! what if something happens". Well you see... in CS... if you need to get your pizza out of the door; It's 30 minute bans.
Second time ? It's one hour ban.
Third time ? 1 day ban.
4th time ? (stop ordering pizza seriously) 7 DAY MOTHERFUCKER !
Imagine this system in SC2 ? With a ladder race ? You wouldn't leave a game or queue without thinking. I know it's not the same thing but people shitting on blizzard for this is kind of funny where i even saw post of saying : "Valve would have done better" stuff.
For me the only thing that Blizzard done wrong is :
"Not contacting the offender directly". That could be for : "Hey you are banned" or "We need explanation" or "You are banned from X tournaments because of suspicion that we need to sort out". But they need to contact the offender. From what i know, even if your account is banned you will be notified by blizzard. So they need to notify players. Maybe the tournaments organizer got word from blizzard and took the decision before Blizzard could contact him but that seems unlikely. I just think Blizzard fucked off somewhere. But only there.
Yes, that's their only mistake. (that and banning KR but hey. Their house, their rules.)
You realize CS is a team game so if you leave your team probably loses? Whereas in sc2 if you leave your opponent is happy.
And that is why this system does not exist in SC2. I didn't say otherwise.
And it's a bannable offense to leave games. Everyone knows that
Nobody knows that. It's never been done aside from extreme abuses like leaving 50 games in a row, and even then most of those guys don't get any attention.
And it's a bannable offense to leave games. Everyone knows that
Nobody knows that. It's never been done aside from extreme abuses like leaving 50 games in a row, and even then most of those guys don't get any attention.
Maybe not everyone then. I know it's in the TOS and thought it was one of the few things that was known from it (that and 3rd party programs and do not share your account). And yes, it's for abuse (to lower your MMR i would imagine)
And it's a bannable offense to leave games. Everyone knows that
Nobody knows that. It's never been done aside from extreme abuses like leaving 50 games in a row, and even then most of those guys don't get any attention.
Maybe not everyone then. I know it's in the TOS and thought it was one of the few things that was known from it (that and 3rd party programs and do not share your account). And yes, it's for abuse (to lower your MMR i would imagine)
On April 11 2016 15:18 arb wrote: they still let this kid play in pro games? lolol. didnt you guys learn anything from him cheating in broodwar?
Everyone wants to hate on Blizzard more than look at the weak excuses he is making lol, typical really. Also a ton of people in this thread outright support him, it's crazy.
See this is why a few pages back people were saying that what you're mostly doing is attacking Major instead of actually looking for a fair answer.
There is more or less still no more evidence about this fiasco, nor is there a PR statement or anything. You aren't here to discuss the merits of Blizzard's decision, you're here to attack major. It makes sense that someone who gets punished for no apparent reason (perhaps there's a reason but so far it's only conjecture) gets support.
You're also bringing up old things which are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. What Major did in Brood War has nothing to do with the current situation and you bringing that up at all is a sign that you lack real substance behind your (personal) attacks on major. Nice of you to discredit yourself like that, we now know that you aren't actually looking to hear about what is true or not, you're looking to personally put down major.
Right now especially, it really seems that Major and the other players are more likely victim of Blizzard's poor organization of the ladder qualifier than they are cheaters who tried to exploit the system. Either way, so far what is factually correct is that : - Players are having their reputations (and as such their careers) damaged severely right now. - Lack of PR or more compelling evidence from Blizzard.
I took the stance that no one else effectively took - looking at WHY Major was in the situation in the first place, why he was acting irresponsibly. That is the only line of questioning that I saw that would bring any more information to the table, as you yourself said that there is no more evidence being provided. This is looking for a "fair answer," kind of, but I would rather word it as "the truth." I don't care if the way my questioning and doubts came off is "attacking Major." When progamers are accused of cheating, what, the whole community should gobble up every excuse they dish out and not approach the situation critically? They should coddle him and side with him blindly, just because the organization behind it also may have acted unfairly (according to him, mind you - what if he got the e-mail on the account that he used to smurf on Europe)? Attacking Major is justified when his story has more similarities to a fish market, and his reputation is partially to blame for that.
So yes, I am NOT here to discuss the merit of Blizzard's decision. Why? Because that is something we have no information on, except from the word of Major. There's nothing to discuss - I already said the decision may have been hasty and harsh, based on the information that Major provided. What we DO have information on is Major's paltry excuse for giving free wins. I came here to find out what the fuck is up. He is our only source, so I question him, his actions, his decisions, and his mindset. If you think that is somehow inappropriate in a thread that discusses him being banned from an event for cheating, then I don't understand what you think IS appropriate. It can't be that this thread is solely for bashing on Blizzard, although that's what it certainly seems like from 80% of the posts in here.
To say "there is no apparent reason" is straight up falsehood. We know the reason. Major knows the reason. The question is NOT whether he did it or not, it's whether he did it knowingly or not, which will probably be impossible to prove unless there are Skype conversations or something. A corollary question is whether or not Blizzard acted too harshly or too hastily or too privately, a topic that has been beat to death in this thread because nearly everyone is on the same page and just wants to bash Blizzard. Some of the accusations thrown Blizzard's way have been phenomenally outrageous and downright idiotic, but I don't see you criticizing their position on it. Do you really think Blizzard did this because Major spoke against Bly or something? Do you think they are doing it because they are trying to kill SC2? Where were you on those matters? Oh right, your stance prevents you from having objective thoughts, it seems.
It's hilarious how you can just say that my analysis is discredited because I "attack" Major by agreeing with a person who brought up the fact that (if I recall correctly) Major did damn near exactly the same thing before. Except, this time he changed servers and smurfs in order to do so. I would say it is YOUR argument that is discredited if you think that this has no relevance to the matter at hand. If you're being willfully dense, let me spell it out for you: this now makes him a multiple offender, whether he has an excuse this time or not (and really, why wouldn't he come up with an excuse that can't be proven???). My "attack" was that I called his excuses "weak," which I don't think is arguable, and that I think it's crazy that people in this thread blindly support him. Wow, I'm so brutal, really putting him down, huh? I must have really hurt his feelings with that, what a terrible crime. Please.
I'm not here to put him down. I'm here to look critically at the only direct testimony we have, which is his. So far, I haven't been convinced that he is telling the truth, and his history leads me to doubt the veracity of his statements. There are too many logical holes in his excuses for me to swallow. And, I find it ludicrous that the SC2 community is frothing at the mouth and attacking Blizzard so vehemently when a known cheater got caught cheating and was removed as a result. If you're saying that I came here with an agenda, I think there are dozens of posters that meet that accusation more fittingly. You're only singling me out because you don't agree with me. Try to be objective for a change, your bleeding-heart posting isn't presenting any solid arguments that I haven't already conceded or refuted.
EDIT: Nevermind, I can't take you seriously when you say things like this:
On April 08 2016 23:31 Incognoto wrote: blizzard killed off the foreigner scene
And then follow-up with:
On April 08 2016 23:52 Incognoto wrote: let's instead try to raise the mediocre, resultless foreigners with wcs welfare. my god this is so disgusting
Maybe it's the fact that foreigners haven't been able to compete with Koreans in the first place that killed the foreign scene, and Blizzard is trying to stem the bleeding with this system. Then they try to show that cheating is not ok by banning people giving away free points in a system they made that is specifically geared to giving opportunities for foreigners.
I guess Blizzard is really out to murder this game, huh?
blizzard should pay more attention on how to improve/change the design of stacraft 2, instead of going on a crusade against "match-fixers". they are not the reason that nobody plays this game anymore, and all the good professional players quit
On April 12 2016 00:54 TLIdrA wrote: blizzard should pay more attention on how to improve/change the design of stacraft 2, instead of going on a crusade against "match-fixers". they are not the reason that nobody plays this game anymore, and all the good professional players quit
On April 12 2016 00:52 TLIdrA wrote: match-fixing has not and will not influence e-sports negatively. However, the design of starcraft 2 will
On April 11 2016 20:49 Clonester wrote: They should just forbid leaving games. Up from now on, you have to fight till your last building falls on ladder.
Everything else could be wintrading.
As it turns out, Nerchio and Firecake were way ahead of everyone when it comes to not wintrading :-)
Fantasy the only player above suspicion of wintrading.
On April 11 2016 20:49 Clonester wrote: They should just forbid leaving games. Up from now on, you have to fight till your last building falls on ladder.
Everything else could be wintrading.
As it turns out, Nerchio and Firecake were way ahead of everyone when it comes to not wintrading :-)
Fantasy the only player above suspicion of wintrading.
I guess now we know why Marineking got declared innocent..
On April 11 2016 20:49 Clonester wrote: They should just forbid leaving games. Up from now on, you have to fight till your last building falls on ladder.
Everything else could be wintrading.
As it turns out, Nerchio and Firecake were way ahead of everyone when it comes to not wintrading :-)
Fantasy the only player above suspicion of wintrading.
And it's a bannable offense to leave games. Everyone knows that
Nobody knows that. It's never been done aside from extreme abuses like leaving 50 games in a row, and even then most of those guys don't get any attention.
Maybe not everyone then. I know it's in the TOS and thought it was one of the few things that was known from it (that and 3rd party programs and do not share your account). And yes, it's for abuse (to lower your MMR i would imagine)
major is a great player. this seems harsh, but they already have a replacement. all they can do is lift the 'embargo' and lay down a warning not to do it again.
Yea, sucks that there's no way to stop the game from happening without looking suspicious. I mean, if you tell someone you're gonna go to the bathroom, what do you expect them to do, just stop clicking stuff? It's bullshit that games like SC2 have all these bells and whistles, but no button that would give you a sort of intermission or something. Oh wait.
And it's also too bad that you really can't just get up after every game, win or lose SC2 queues matchmaking right up, without your input. It doesn't care if you have to take a dump or if you're sick or if you need to take your medicine or make up an excuse. It just automatically loads the next game with no input from you. Oh wait.
Yea, sucks that there's no way to stop the game from happening without looking suspicious. I mean, if you tell someone you're gonna go to the bathroom, what do you expect them to do, just stop clicking stuff? It's bullshit that games like SC2 have all these bells and whistles, but no button that would give you a sort of intermission or something. Oh wait
Half of the time your opponent unpauses immediately or 5 seconds after you leave
It just automatically loads the next game with no input from you. Oh wait.
This part i agree with, but it's not just about that at all. We have never judged players based on if they played to their best in a few ladder games before.
Pros routinely screw around on ladder, some of the best players in the world have been known to play ladder without scouting to get into some crazy situations and try to handle them. That's obviously not trying their best to win the game, should that be bannable too? That's really what it comes down to - we have people being labeled as matchfixers for not trying their best in ladder games.
I think that the reasoning here is pretty silly and would not leave games like that myself but i'm sure that i and many others could be accused and punished in the same way for not trying 110% on every ladder game. If that is what blizzard wants (or not what they want) then they should make it extremely clear right now.
Can't we agree on that it's stupid that you get points for your opponent leaving before there was any contact on the map? Yes, a penalty is in order for that, but no reward!
On April 12 2016 17:18 schaf wrote: Can't we agree on that it's stupid that you get points for your opponent leaving before there was any contact on the map? Yes, a penalty is in order for that, but no reward!
It's fine, it happens quite rarely and a few points doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, player's points will eventually even out to where they belong if they put in enough games.
Also if they didn't award points to victories within a time limit then Firecake would have a new way to grief people.
And it's a bannable offense to leave games. Everyone knows that
Nobody knows that. It's never been done aside from extreme abuses like leaving 50 games in a row, and even then most of those guys don't get any attention.
Maybe not everyone then. I know it's in the TOS and thought it was one of the few things that was known from it (that and 3rd party programs and do not share your account). And yes, it's for abuse (to lower your MMR i would imagine)
Yeah nobody knows that.
I knew it and I assumed it was widely known.
Yeah that's what i thought too. Well. Our bad then
Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
While that is a valid statement, last time I checked "pro" stood for "professional". So a certain degree of professionalism would certainly be nice.
Well since the game doesnt have an endpoint other than destroying all your opponent buildings, which never happens, it's left to the appreciation of the player to see when they lost. So you cant really punish that. I mean, you could just leave because yoiu scouted a hard counter build from your opponent, without actually losing one unit/building
On April 12 2016 17:07 Cyro wrote: Half of the time your opponent unpauses immediately or 5 seconds after you leave
Then the result will be the same as if Major had just left the game, except it would make it seem like he at least had some intention of playing the game and not just leaving it at the countdown timer. If you're on a ranked ladder which leads to a tournament and therefore money, I think it isn't too much to ask a progamer to act like a progamer. "PP" F10 + P "I need to use the bathroom," would have resolved all of the issues Major is facing right now.
Pros routinely screw around on ladder, some of the best players in the world have been known to play ladder without scouting to get into some crazy situations and try to handle them. That's obviously not trying their best to win the game, should that be bannable too? That's really what it comes down to - we have people being labeled as matchfixers for not trying their best in ladder games.
I think that the reasoning here is pretty silly and would not leave games like that myself but i'm sure that i and many others could be accused and punished in the same way for not trying 110% on every ladder game. If that is what blizzard wants (or not what they want) then they should make it extremely clear right now.
But have they done this during an official WCS ladder qualifier? This is something new, and I don't see why it should be tolerated that professional gamers act ignorantly and irresponsibly during what was obviously a critical time on ladder.
It's not that he didn't try his best - he didn't even play the game. He left during the countdown. I find it hard to believe that from the moment he pressed the matchmaking button to when he left the game, something came up that he didn't foresee. By his own admission, he went to take his medicine. Is that something that could not have waited 5 more seconds with "pp" f10 + p? By his own admission, he was dropping games and not playing to the best of his ability all day because he was sick and had to run to the bathroom. So he was aware of the situation, yet continued to press onwards, playing during a ladder qualifier that he had no stake in and giving free points to people. That's what it comes down to; people being labelled as matchfixers for a string of either dumb or suspicious decisions, depending on how you look at it. Either way, the end result is the same.
Didn't Blizzard put it in TOS that you should play each ladder game to the best of your ability? I think someone quoted it on an earlier page or in the other thread. So, it WAS made clear. Don't fault Blizzard for people not reading the documents they affirmed.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
Especially since English is his first language.
English is not my first language, but I don't think you can say that I sound like a "petulant middle schooler." I will warrant a guess and say that English is not your first language either, but I wouldn't be able to say that about you either. As far as presentation goes, I know Spanish, and the punctuation works in a very similar fashion. Grammar is somewhat different but not so much so that if he translated his thoughts directly from Spanish to English, it would become illegible. The issue that Orr is talking about, from my interpretation, is how much effort he is putting into it, which is not enough.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
Communication in real life is 10% verbal and 90% non-verbal, or something like that. I wouldn't say that writing is quite as drastically distributed, but style IS an important factor of how your ideas are interpreted. You know the adage, "It's not what you say but how you say it." If you don't care enough to present your ideas in a comprehensive and adult manner, then why should a reader care enough to appreciate, understand, or believe them? This falls back to what I said in response to Incognoto: it speaks of how much effort he is putting into this, in other words how seriously he takes the situation. It's not up to par, in my opinion.
And, I would like to note that Orr specifically pointed out that he doesn't know enough about the player or the situation to make a verdict, so he focused on the one thing he can knowingly comment on. That's a responsible disclaimer and his consequent analysis is based on a foundation he made clear to us all. You judging him for neglecting substance when he said from the start that's not what he is focusing on in his statement is just blowing hot air.
Calling this match fixing is really harsh because it puts him in the category of Life, Savior and all the other match fixers, when what he did is nothing even close to that.
On April 13 2016 01:57 Luolis wrote: well, i guess i should be banned according to TOS then ))
Did you go on a different region server during a WCS qualifier and give free points in the hours leading up to the cut-off date to your teammate?
No?
I think you're good bro.
On April 13 2016 02:19 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Calling this match fixing is really harsh because it puts him in the category of Life, Savior and all the other match fixers, when what he did is nothing even close to that.
I wouldn't call this matchfixing, I'd call it "giving free wins," but I can see how matchfixing is relevant here. However, I don't think anyone considers him to be anywhere near the same league as Life or Savior. Just like there are manslaughters, murders, and then there is Stalin or Mao. All technically killed people, but I think it's commonly understood that they are not equivalent in any metric.
When you are already qualified or if its sure that you qualify, then you can help worse player to qualify by wintrading, so that you have less competition at the tournament.
On April 12 2016 17:07 Cyro wrote: Half of the time your opponent unpauses immediately or 5 seconds after you leave
Then the result will be the same as if Major had just left the game, except it would make it seem like he at least had some intention of playing the game and not just leaving it at the countdown timer. If you're on a ranked ladder which leads to a tournament and therefore money, I think it isn't too much to ask a progamer to act like a progamer. "PP" F10 + P "I need to use the bathroom," would have resolved all of the issues Major is facing right now.
Pros routinely screw around on ladder, some of the best players in the world have been known to play ladder without scouting to get into some crazy situations and try to handle them. That's obviously not trying their best to win the game, should that be bannable too? That's really what it comes down to - we have people being labeled as matchfixers for not trying their best in ladder games.
I think that the reasoning here is pretty silly and would not leave games like that myself but i'm sure that i and many others could be accused and punished in the same way for not trying 110% on every ladder game. If that is what blizzard wants (or not what they want) then they should make it extremely clear right now.
But have they done this during an official WCS ladder qualifier? This is something new, and I don't see why it should be tolerated that professional gamers act ignorantly and irresponsibly during what was obviously a critical time on ladder.
It's not that he didn't try his best - he didn't even play the game. He left during the countdown. I find it hard to believe that from the moment he pressed the matchmaking button to when he left the game, something came up that he didn't foresee. By his own admission, he went to take his medicine. Is that something that could not have waited 5 more seconds with "pp" f10 + p? By his own admission, he was dropping games and not playing to the best of his ability all day because he was sick and had to run to the bathroom. So he was aware of the situation, yet continued to press onwards, playing during a ladder qualifier that he had no stake in and giving free points to people. That's what it comes down to; people being labelled as matchfixers for a string of either dumb or suspicious decisions, depending on how you look at it. Either way, the end result is the same.
Didn't Blizzard put it in TOS that you should play each ladder game to the best of your ability? I think someone quoted it on an earlier page or in the other thread. So, it WAS made clear. Don't fault Blizzard for people not reading the documents they affirmed.
Just because it's in a TOS doesn't make it legal. The legality of TOS have not been fully tested in a court of law. Companies routinely put all sorts of shit there, knowing that people don't have the money to pay lawyers to challenge it. Courts are not going to enforce something vague like "best of your ability" based upon Blizzard's definition of it unless Blizzard releases a full rule book defining the term in a legally valid manner.
And you're blaming people for a poorly run, poorly implemented, poorly conceived part of the tournament? So if I'm an NA player, I can't play normally in Europe at this time if I choose not to participate in Europe's qualifier? I can't screw around and play for fun? As the Bunny controversy shows, a non-pro can give away wins just as easily. What if a pro decides to only participate in the non-ladder qualifiers and decides to not participate in the ladder qualifiers? What then? Still forced to take those days seriously? Why subject the rest of the player base to this?
Face it, the ladder portion should never have happened. You're blaming players for improperly putting a bandaid on a wound of a terminally ill patient when Blizzard created the cancer in the first place. There's no way anybody in their right mind would think this was a good idea once they start thinking of all the rules that must be in place and all the possible player behaviors there would be in the ladder. All of this enforces what a bad idea this was in the first place. Strictly implementing the rules of a dumb idea isn't going to make it smarter.
On April 12 2016 17:07 Cyro wrote: Half of the time your opponent unpauses immediately or 5 seconds after you leave
Then the result will be the same as if Major had just left the game, except it would make it seem like he at least had some intention of playing the game and not just leaving it at the countdown timer. If you're on a ranked ladder which leads to a tournament and therefore money, I think it isn't too much to ask a progamer to act like a progamer. "PP" F10 + P "I need to use the bathroom," would have resolved all of the issues Major is facing right now.
Pros routinely screw around on ladder, some of the best players in the world have been known to play ladder without scouting to get into some crazy situations and try to handle them. That's obviously not trying their best to win the game, should that be bannable too? That's really what it comes down to - we have people being labeled as matchfixers for not trying their best in ladder games.
I think that the reasoning here is pretty silly and would not leave games like that myself but i'm sure that i and many others could be accused and punished in the same way for not trying 110% on every ladder game. If that is what blizzard wants (or not what they want) then they should make it extremely clear right now.
But have they done this during an official WCS ladder qualifier? This is something new, and I don't see why it should be tolerated that professional gamers act ignorantly and irresponsibly during what was obviously a critical time on ladder.
It's not that he didn't try his best - he didn't even play the game. He left during the countdown. I find it hard to believe that from the moment he pressed the matchmaking button to when he left the game, something came up that he didn't foresee. By his own admission, he went to take his medicine. Is that something that could not have waited 5 more seconds with "pp" f10 + p? By his own admission, he was dropping games and not playing to the best of his ability all day because he was sick and had to run to the bathroom. So he was aware of the situation, yet continued to press onwards, playing during a ladder qualifier that he had no stake in and giving free points to people. That's what it comes down to; people being labelled as matchfixers for a string of either dumb or suspicious decisions, depending on how you look at it. Either way, the end result is the same.
Didn't Blizzard put it in TOS that you should play each ladder game to the best of your ability? I think someone quoted it on an earlier page or in the other thread. So, it WAS made clear. Don't fault Blizzard for people not reading the documents they affirmed.
Just because it's in a TOS doesn't make it legal. The legality of TOS have not been fully tested in a court of law. Companies routinely put all sorts of shit there, knowing that people don't have the money to pay lawyers to challenge it. Courts are not going to enforce something vague like "best of your ability" based upon Blizzard's definition of it unless Blizzard releases a full rule book defining the term in a legally valid manner.
And you're blaming people for a poorly run, poorly implemented, poorly conceived part of the tournament? So if I'm an NA player, I can't play normally in Europe at this time if I choose not to participate in Europe's qualifier? I can't screw around and play for fun? As the Bunny controversy shows, a non-pro can give away wins just as easily. What if a pro decides to only participate in the non-ladder qualifiers and decides to not participate in the ladder qualifiers? What then? Still forced to take those days seriously? Why subject the rest of the player base to this?
Face it, the ladder portion should never have happened. You're blaming players for improperly putting a bandaid on a wound of a terminally ill patient when Blizzard created the cancer in the first place. There's no way anybody in their right mind would think this was a good idea once they start thinking of all the rules that must be in place and all the possible player behaviors there would be in the ladder. All of this enforces what a bad idea this was in the first place. Strictly implementing the rules of a dumb idea isn't going to make it smarter.
I never once supported Blizzard's implementation of this ladder qualifier, their PR, or their handling of this case. I only wrote about things concerning Major, the reasons why I find his story questionable, and the fact that no matter how you cut it he did give the free points. That is all. Legality has nothing to do with this because Blizzard made the rules, hosted the server, ran the qualifier, and punishes as they see fit. They are prosecutor, investigator, judge and jury. That is something that to me is fairly obvious and should have been considered before taking actions such as Major's, if they were truly blind and unintentional as he claims. Fairness was never part of the story.
On April 13 2016 02:19 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Calling this match fixing is really harsh because it puts him in the category of Life, Savior and all the other match fixers, when what he did is nothing even close to that.
Oh, the irony :-)
Putting a suspected/alleged matchfixer in the same category as a convicted matchfixer is harsh.
On April 11 2016 16:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: There is zero chance of a players' union. Collective bargaining only works when there are giant owner-horded profits to bargain for. SC2 esports is a giant money loser.
I'm not so sure about that. Students' unions exist even though there's no profit to bargain for, for example. Bargaining for profits is just one of the main role unions are assuming nowadays, but the original reason you need unions is to protect the union members - who, typically, are supposed to be uninformed, numerous, and individually weak - against "unfair" (whatever does that mean) treatment by hierarchical powers. A players' union would fit right in in this case, since MajOr was indeed treated unfairly (no direct communication with him, not showing him proofs, not allowing him to defend himself, etc).
On April 12 2016 17:18 schaf wrote: Can't we agree on that it's stupid that you get points for your opponent leaving before there was any contact on the map? Yes, a penalty is in order for that, but no reward!
It's fine, it happens quite rarely and a few points doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, player's points will eventually even out to where they belong if they put in enough games.
Also if they didn't award points to victories within a time limit then Firecake would have a new way to grief people.
If its fine and the points mean nothing for being so inconsequential, why was major banned? Its one or the other.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
Communication in real life is 10% verbal and 90% non-verbal, or something like that. I wouldn't say that writing is quite as drastically distributed, but style IS an important factor of how your ideas are interpreted. You know the adage, "It's not what you say but how you say it." If you don't care enough to present your ideas in a comprehensive and adult manner, then why should a reader care enough to appreciate, understand, or believe them? This falls back to what I said in response to Incognoto: it speaks of how much effort he is putting into this, in other words how seriously he takes the situation. It's not up to par, in my opinion.
And, I would like to note that Orr specifically pointed out that he doesn't know enough about the player or the situation to make a verdict, so he focused on the one thing he can knowingly comment on. That's a responsible disclaimer and his consequent analysis is based on a foundation he made clear to us all. You judging him for neglecting substance when he said from the start that's not what he is focusing on in his statement is just blowing hot air.
Seems like you missed that I was only commenting on the bolded part.
Why should you as a reader care enough to appriciate, understand, or believe someone whose style/form/grammar/vocabulary/semantics you do not approve of? To broaden your horizon? To try to become more enlightened by trying to assume someone else's point of view?
If you dismiss an idea just because of how someone presented it, I do believe all you're accomplishing is clouding your own chance to make a sound judgement call. Im not saying that it would hurt if someone "makes an effort" when trying to explain themselves/present an idea in terms of how likely they are to "be taken seriously". All Im saying is striving to look past form to focus on what matters is not just a commendable notion that helps discussions/exchanges of ideas to be more civil and constructive, it also is a service to yourself.
On April 13 2016 02:19 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Calling this match fixing is really harsh because it puts him in the category of Life, Savior and all the other match fixers, when what he did is nothing even close to that.
Oh, the irony :-)
Putting a suspected/alleged matchfixer in the same category as a convicted matchfixer is harsh.
There's a huge difference between leaving a few games on ladder that you didn't want to play out -vs- getting paid tens of thousands of dollars to routinely suicide in tournament games.
I can't even list names for high level players who i have seen leaving games for a dozen different reasons or even just because they didn't feel like playing it out. It's a thing that happens so regularly, you would not have a pro scene left if you banned for every instance of it. You would not have much of a ladder left, either.
On April 13 2016 02:19 CrayonPopChoa wrote: Calling this match fixing is really harsh because it puts him in the category of Life, Savior and all the other match fixers, when what he did is nothing even close to that.
Oh, the irony :-)
Putting a suspected/alleged matchfixer in the same category as a convicted matchfixer is harsh.
There's a huge difference between leaving a few games on ladder vs getting paid to suicide a tournament game
Oh, you mean just like there's a huge difference between a charge and a conviction? :-)
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
Communication in real life is 10% verbal and 90% non-verbal, or something like that. I wouldn't say that writing is quite as drastically distributed, but style IS an important factor of how your ideas are interpreted. You know the adage, "It's not what you say but how you say it." If you don't care enough to present your ideas in a comprehensive and adult manner, then why should a reader care enough to appreciate, understand, or believe them? This falls back to what I said in response to Incognoto: it speaks of how much effort he is putting into this, in other words how seriously he takes the situation. It's not up to par, in my opinion.
And, I would like to note that Orr specifically pointed out that he doesn't know enough about the player or the situation to make a verdict, so he focused on the one thing he can knowingly comment on. That's a responsible disclaimer and his consequent analysis is based on a foundation he made clear to us all. You judging him for neglecting substance when he said from the start that's not what he is focusing on in his statement is just blowing hot air.
Seems like you missed that I was only commenting on the bolded part.
Why should you as a reader care enough to appriciate, understand, or believe someone whose style/form/grammar/vocabulary/semantics you do not approve of? To broaden your horizon? To try to become more enlightened by trying to assume someone else's point of view?
If you dismiss an idea just because of how someone presented it, I do believe all you're accomplishing is clouding your own chance to make a sound judgement call. Im not saying that it would hurt if someone "makes an effort" when trying to explain themselves/present an idea in terms of how likely they are to "be taken seriously". All Im saying is striving to look past form to focus on what matters is not just a commendable notion that helps discussions/exchanges of ideas to be more civil and constructive, it also is a service to yourself.
I did! My apologies. I answered to the whole text.
I'm not sure where this line of questioning goes but the point is if the writer does not care, neither should the reader. If I were pleading my case and looking for support in a situation I felt was unjust, I would do my utmost to convince the reader. So far, I have not seen that level of effort from Major. That's all I'm saying.
I dismiss the ideas because of WHAT was presented. I never commented on the presentation until people discredited Orr for his statements. Presentation was never a factor in my questioning/analysis of the situation. I did ignore semantics, syntax, and grammar in favor of looking at the statements themselves. I agree with you, but I don't think it should be overlooked that even after a situation where Major was at best careless and at worst a cheater, he continues to be careless in his writing. If I were in his position I would do as Orr said, have other people look over my statements and try to present the best possible face. That is all.
Blizzard sucks so much, I am pretty sure thsi has nothing to do with wintrading and it's just becasue of major's tweet when he insulted Bly who was picked to replace ML and DnS.
This whole thing is just people at Blizzard punishing out people they don't like and favouring their friends, fucking disgusting.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
Communication in real life is 10% verbal and 90% non-verbal, or something like that. I wouldn't say that writing is quite as drastically distributed, but style IS an important factor of how your ideas are interpreted. You know the adage, "It's not what you say but how you say it." If you don't care enough to present your ideas in a comprehensive and adult manner, then why should a reader care enough to appreciate, understand, or believe them? This falls back to what I said in response to Incognoto: it speaks of how much effort he is putting into this, in other words how seriously he takes the situation. It's not up to par, in my opinion.
And, I would like to note that Orr specifically pointed out that he doesn't know enough about the player or the situation to make a verdict, so he focused on the one thing he can knowingly comment on. That's a responsible disclaimer and his consequent analysis is based on a foundation he made clear to us all. You judging him for neglecting substance when he said from the start that's not what he is focusing on in his statement is just blowing hot air.
Seems like you missed that I was only commenting on the bolded part.
Why should you as a reader care enough to appriciate, understand, or believe someone whose style/form/grammar/vocabulary/semantics you do not approve of? To broaden your horizon? To try to become more enlightened by trying to assume someone else's point of view?
If you dismiss an idea just because of how someone presented it, I do believe all you're accomplishing is clouding your own chance to make a sound judgement call. Im not saying that it would hurt if someone "makes an effort" when trying to explain themselves/present an idea in terms of how likely they are to "be taken seriously". All Im saying is striving to look past form to focus on what matters is not just a commendable notion that helps discussions/exchanges of ideas to be more civil and constructive, it also is a service to yourself.
I did! My apologies. I answered to the whole text.
I'm not sure where this line of questioning goes but the point is if the writer does not care, neither should the reader. If I were pleading my case and looking for support in a situation I felt was unjust, I would do my utmost to convince the reader. So far, I have not seen that level of effort from Major. That's all I'm saying.
I dismiss the ideas because of WHAT was presented. I never commented on the presentation until people discredited Orr for his statements. Presentation was never a factor in my questioning/analysis of the situation. I did ignore semantics, syntax, and grammar in favor of looking at the statements themselves. I agree with you, but I don't think it should be overlooked that even after a situation where Major was at best careless and at worst a cheater, he continues to be careless in his writing. If I were in his position I would do as Orr said, have other people look over my statements and try to present the best possible face. That is all.
Well, I do think Major tried to explain himself/handle the situation the best way he knew how. I, too, would have adviced him to ask friends of his with good English to help him out with PR - no disagreement between us there :D
What I wrote about form and sustance wasnt adressed to you, by the way, at all. I just wrote "you" like the grammatical generic you instead of one because that sounds so wierd (at least to me).
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
Communication in real life is 10% verbal and 90% non-verbal, or something like that. I wouldn't say that writing is quite as drastically distributed, but style IS an important factor of how your ideas are interpreted. You know the adage, "It's not what you say but how you say it." If you don't care enough to present your ideas in a comprehensive and adult manner, then why should a reader care enough to appreciate, understand, or believe them? This falls back to what I said in response to Incognoto: it speaks of how much effort he is putting into this, in other words how seriously he takes the situation. It's not up to par, in my opinion.
And, I would like to note that Orr specifically pointed out that he doesn't know enough about the player or the situation to make a verdict, so he focused on the one thing he can knowingly comment on. That's a responsible disclaimer and his consequent analysis is based on a foundation he made clear to us all. You judging him for neglecting substance when he said from the start that's not what he is focusing on in his statement is just blowing hot air.
Seems like you missed that I was only commenting on the bolded part.
Why should you as a reader care enough to appriciate, understand, or believe someone whose style/form/grammar/vocabulary/semantics you do not approve of? To broaden your horizon? To try to become more enlightened by trying to assume someone else's point of view?
If you dismiss an idea just because of how someone presented it, I do believe all you're accomplishing is clouding your own chance to make a sound judgement call. Im not saying that it would hurt if someone "makes an effort" when trying to explain themselves/present an idea in terms of how likely they are to "be taken seriously". All Im saying is striving to look past form to focus on what matters is not just a commendable notion that helps discussions/exchanges of ideas to be more civil and constructive, it also is a service to yourself.
I did! My apologies. I answered to the whole text.
I'm not sure where this line of questioning goes but the point is if the writer does not care, neither should the reader. If I were pleading my case and looking for support in a situation I felt was unjust, I would do my utmost to convince the reader. So far, I have not seen that level of effort from Major. That's all I'm saying.
I dismiss the ideas because of WHAT was presented. I never commented on the presentation until people discredited Orr for his statements. Presentation was never a factor in my questioning/analysis of the situation. I did ignore semantics, syntax, and grammar in favor of looking at the statements themselves. I agree with you, but I don't think it should be overlooked that even after a situation where Major was at best careless and at worst a cheater, he continues to be careless in his writing. If I were in his position I would do as Orr said, have other people look over my statements and try to present the best possible face. That is all.
Well, I do think Major tried to explain himself/handle the situation the best way he knew how. I, too, would have adviced him to ask friends of his with good English to help him out with PR - no disagreement between us there :D
What I wrote about form and sustance wasnt adressed to you, by the way, at all. I just wrote "you" like the grammatical generic you instead of one because that sounds so wierd (at least to me).
Major careless? xDD guilty as charged
I was aware that English wasn't his first language before my initial post. And that has no bearing whatsoever on my initial contention. His personal integrity and professional future is on the line. And instead of taking the time to articulately compose a clear and concise response to the events in question, that will hopefully help clear his name in this critical domain of public judgement; he writes run-on, profanity laced tirades, using the caps-lock to try and accentuate important points, and an almost complete lack of acceptable formatting and punctuation. This is laughable in any language, considering the stakes. If we want others to take eSports seriously, and view progamers as legitimate professional athletes, then they need to act the part.
The much more troubling part for me, is the actual underlying logic behind his arguments.
In his first statement, the central tenant of his case is that because of his clearly superior win-rates against certain opposition, match-fixing can't be possible. When in reality, that is exactly the type of player most likely to be able to successfully cheat. It's pretty hard to alter the expected outcome of a game if you're the much inferior player and likely to lose straight up.
In his second statement, his logic holds that since every other programmer is (allegedly) sharing accounts, even though he acknowledges it's against the rules, that absolves him of all responsibility. This type of thinking (lack of all personal accountability) is unfortunately far too prevalent in all facets of society nowadays. But he doesn't stop there. He builds off this existing fallacy, to claim that if action was taken against all cases of account sharing, that not only would the entire foreign pro scene collapse, but so too would the entire Korean one (where he states every single player there is guilty too).
I've never watched Major's games, and have no stake in this either way. Definitely appears Blizzard lacked clear transparency, and handled the entire situation in a less than ideal way. But I took the time to read his statements, since match-fixing is the most serious offense any progamer can be accused of (within the confines of the actual game). And I came away troubled, by what little respect his responses indicated to me that he holds towards the entire SC2 professional scene, and by extension, the passionate fans like us on here, who are the very foundation of this great game.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
Communication in real life is 10% verbal and 90% non-verbal, or something like that. I wouldn't say that writing is quite as drastically distributed, but style IS an important factor of how your ideas are interpreted. You know the adage, "It's not what you say but how you say it." If you don't care enough to present your ideas in a comprehensive and adult manner, then why should a reader care enough to appreciate, understand, or believe them? This falls back to what I said in response to Incognoto: it speaks of how much effort he is putting into this, in other words how seriously he takes the situation. It's not up to par, in my opinion.
And, I would like to note that Orr specifically pointed out that he doesn't know enough about the player or the situation to make a verdict, so he focused on the one thing he can knowingly comment on. That's a responsible disclaimer and his consequent analysis is based on a foundation he made clear to us all. You judging him for neglecting substance when he said from the start that's not what he is focusing on in his statement is just blowing hot air.
Seems like you missed that I was only commenting on the bolded part.
Why should you as a reader care enough to appriciate, understand, or believe someone whose style/form/grammar/vocabulary/semantics you do not approve of? To broaden your horizon? To try to become more enlightened by trying to assume someone else's point of view?
If you dismiss an idea just because of how someone presented it, I do believe all you're accomplishing is clouding your own chance to make a sound judgement call. Im not saying that it would hurt if someone "makes an effort" when trying to explain themselves/present an idea in terms of how likely they are to "be taken seriously". All Im saying is striving to look past form to focus on what matters is not just a commendable notion that helps discussions/exchanges of ideas to be more civil and constructive, it also is a service to yourself.
I did! My apologies. I answered to the whole text.
I'm not sure where this line of questioning goes but the point is if the writer does not care, neither should the reader. If I were pleading my case and looking for support in a situation I felt was unjust, I would do my utmost to convince the reader. So far, I have not seen that level of effort from Major. That's all I'm saying.
I dismiss the ideas because of WHAT was presented. I never commented on the presentation until people discredited Orr for his statements. Presentation was never a factor in my questioning/analysis of the situation. I did ignore semantics, syntax, and grammar in favor of looking at the statements themselves. I agree with you, but I don't think it should be overlooked that even after a situation where Major was at best careless and at worst a cheater, he continues to be careless in his writing. If I were in his position I would do as Orr said, have other people look over my statements and try to present the best possible face. That is all.
Well, I do think Major tried to explain himself/handle the situation the best way he knew how. I, too, would have adviced him to ask friends of his with good English to help him out with PR - no disagreement between us there :D
What I wrote about form and sustance wasnt adressed to you, by the way, at all. I just wrote "you" like the grammatical generic you instead of one because that sounds so wierd (at least to me).
Major careless? xDD guilty as charged
I was aware that English wasn't his first language before my initial post. And that has no bearing whatsoever on my initial contention. His personal integrity and professional future is on the line. And instead of taking the time to articulately compose a clear and concise response to the events in question, that will hopefully help clear his name in this critical domain of public judgement; he writes run-on, profanity laced tirades, using the caps-lock to try and accentuate important points, and an almost complete lack of acceptable formatting and punctuation. This is laughable in any language, considering the stakes. If we want others to take eSports seriously, and view progamers as legitimate professional athletes, then they need to act the part.
The much more troubling part for me, is the actual underlying logic behind his arguments.
In his first statement, the central tenant of his case is that because of his clearly superior win-rates against certain opposition, match-fixing can't be possible. When in reality, that is exactly the type of player most likely to be able to successfully cheat. It's pretty hard to alter the expected outcome of a game if you're the much inferior player and likely to lose straight up.
In his second statement, his logic holds that since every other programmer is (allegedly) sharing accounts, even though he acknowledges it's against the rules, that absolves him of all responsibility. This type of thinking (lack of all personal accountability) is unfortunately far too prevalent in all facets of society nowadays. But he doesn't stop there. He builds off this existing fallacy, to claim that if action was taken against all cases of account sharing, that not only would the entire foreign pro scene collapse, but so too would the entire Korean one (where he states every single player there is guilty too).
I've never watched Major's games, and have no stake in this either way. Definitely appears Blizzard lacked clear transparency, and handled the entire situation in a less than ideal way. But I took the time to read his statements, since match-fixing is the most serious offense any progamer can be accused of (within the confines of the actual game). And I came away troubled by how little respect his responses indicated to me that he held towards the entire SC2 professional scene, and by extension, the passionate fans like us on here, who are the very foundation of this great game.
Wow. Could not have said it better myself. This is what I've been trying to convey since my first post in this thread. Props.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
Communication in real life is 10% verbal and 90% non-verbal, or something like that. I wouldn't say that writing is quite as drastically distributed, but style IS an important factor of how your ideas are interpreted. You know the adage, "It's not what you say but how you say it." If you don't care enough to present your ideas in a comprehensive and adult manner, then why should a reader care enough to appreciate, understand, or believe them? This falls back to what I said in response to Incognoto: it speaks of how much effort he is putting into this, in other words how seriously he takes the situation. It's not up to par, in my opinion.
And, I would like to note that Orr specifically pointed out that he doesn't know enough about the player or the situation to make a verdict, so he focused on the one thing he can knowingly comment on. That's a responsible disclaimer and his consequent analysis is based on a foundation he made clear to us all. You judging him for neglecting substance when he said from the start that's not what he is focusing on in his statement is just blowing hot air.
Seems like you missed that I was only commenting on the bolded part.
Why should you as a reader care enough to appriciate, understand, or believe someone whose style/form/grammar/vocabulary/semantics you do not approve of? To broaden your horizon? To try to become more enlightened by trying to assume someone else's point of view?
If you dismiss an idea just because of how someone presented it, I do believe all you're accomplishing is clouding your own chance to make a sound judgement call. Im not saying that it would hurt if someone "makes an effort" when trying to explain themselves/present an idea in terms of how likely they are to "be taken seriously". All Im saying is striving to look past form to focus on what matters is not just a commendable notion that helps discussions/exchanges of ideas to be more civil and constructive, it also is a service to yourself.
I did! My apologies. I answered to the whole text.
I'm not sure where this line of questioning goes but the point is if the writer does not care, neither should the reader. If I were pleading my case and looking for support in a situation I felt was unjust, I would do my utmost to convince the reader. So far, I have not seen that level of effort from Major. That's all I'm saying.
I dismiss the ideas because of WHAT was presented. I never commented on the presentation until people discredited Orr for his statements. Presentation was never a factor in my questioning/analysis of the situation. I did ignore semantics, syntax, and grammar in favor of looking at the statements themselves. I agree with you, but I don't think it should be overlooked that even after a situation where Major was at best careless and at worst a cheater, he continues to be careless in his writing. If I were in his position I would do as Orr said, have other people look over my statements and try to present the best possible face. That is all.
Well, I do think Major tried to explain himself/handle the situation the best way he knew how. I, too, would have adviced him to ask friends of his with good English to help him out with PR - no disagreement between us there :D
What I wrote about form and sustance wasnt adressed to you, by the way, at all. I just wrote "you" like the grammatical generic you instead of one because that sounds so wierd (at least to me).
Major careless? xDD guilty as charged
I was aware that English wasn't his first language before my initial post. And that has no bearing whatsoever on my initial contention. His personal integrity and professional future is on the line. And instead of taking the time to articulately compose a clear and concise response to the events in question, that will hopefully help clear his name in this critical domain of public judgement; he writes run-on, profanity laced tirades, using the caps-lock to try and accentuate important points, and an almost complete lack of acceptable formatting and punctuation. This is laughable in any language, considering the stakes. If we want others to take eSports seriously, and view progamers as legitimate professional athletes, then they need to act the part.
The much more troubling part for me, is the actual underlying logic behind his arguments.
In his first statement, the central tenant of his case is that because of his clearly superior win-rates against certain opposition, match-fixing can't be possible. When in reality, that is exactly the type of player most likely to be able to successfully cheat. It's pretty hard to alter the expected outcome of a game if you're the much inferior player and likely to lose straight up.
In his second statement, his logic holds that since every other programmer is (allegedly) sharing accounts, even though he acknowledges it's against the rules, that absolves him of all responsibility. This type of thinking (lack of all personal accountability) is unfortunately far too prevalent in all facets of society nowadays. But he doesn't stop there. He builds off this existing fallacy, to claim that if action was taken against all cases of account sharing, that not only would the entire foreign pro scene collapse, but so too would the entire Korean one (where he states every single player there is guilty too).
I've never watched Major's games, and have no stake in this either way. Definitely appears Blizzard lacked clear transparency, and handled the entire situation in a less than ideal way. But I took the time to read his statements, since match-fixing is the most serious offense any progamer can be accused of (within the confines of the actual game). And I came away troubled by how little respect his responses indicated to me that he held towards the entire SC2 professional scene, and by extension, the passionate fans like us on here, who are the very foundation of this great game.
How is match fixing when he clearly took points from the other players by having a positive win rate?, and very positive btw, He just gave up on games when he prioritized other things in his life (feeling sick, and whatever he said), that is not matchfixing sorry but you as a native english speaker should know that, he should be punished for that? I dont have idea, because I dont know and I dont care about Blizzard rules in this WCS parody. About the fallacy, I trust more Major than you about knowing the real state in the share account department between pros, maybe it is an exageration but a fallacy, I doubt it.
Just gonna throw this out there, but we do not actually know what he specifically wrote to Blizz/Kim Phan/Whoever. His forum post is nothing more than a forum post to the Starcraft community. Though, I sort of doubt he wrote a super well-composed message to them either.
I think his point about account sharing and leaving ladder matches is somewhat valid given how Blizzard has clearly shown no concern regarding account sharing, other than writing that it's not allowed. And I think you missed his point about the win-rates. He mentioned that he had taken more games from the players than he gave away, which means that they are already suffering from facing him in the first place, so even with the supposedly "thrown" games, he did them more harm than good. That doesn't necessarily mean he didn't leave to try and help them. It's possible that they had been playing all day, and he was winning all of the games, and only in the last few hours did his buddy say "hey man, can u leave for me??? i am so close!" In that case, Major might be considered guilty. But it's still sort of silly, since he isn't even an eligible player for the qualifier. If we had the top 100 Koreans playing on the EU ladder during that time, the ladder race would basically have zero value because tons of the games (aka losses) would have been against players that they shouldn't even be competing against.
Anyway, yeah, Major's post doesn't provide clear proof that he is innocent, but it actually looks pretty honest, given how he admitted to account sharing among other things. But Blizzard didn't ban him for that. We may never even get to know the truth!
his actions and explanation (while i believe him) are suspicious, and he admits himself that they are suspicious.
if you feel bad, don't queue for the game, it's that simple. its like saying well i only drank one beer while i was driving, im not drunk, so i shouldnt get punished... ur still drinking and driving...
if he queued and instantly left the game at all he deserves to be punished. no game, and no ONE should be cool with people that quit games. it's against the spirit of the game to play with people that refuse to play the game. i'm ok with him getting blackballed over this, honestly.
if this was someone different, i could understand a warning/yellow card before the red card, but this guy is to Starcraft 2 what I am to the Teamliquid mafia community - the 9th layer of hell. I like him, and I'm a fan, but he has a history of acting up.
I feel bad for you Major and I know what I'm saying is harsh, but you gotta change how little you think about what everyone is going to think of your actions.
On April 12 2016 23:45 Orr wrote: Don't know close to enough about the player or situation to render a verdict one way or another.
But Major's ranting social media posts do him no favors. If you are a progamer and this is your job, then you should take everything very seriously. And take the time to write out an articulate, grammatically correct piece using proper punctuation. And have someone with editing skills look it over first and make the necessary corrections.
His writing looks and sounds like a petulant middle schooler, which renders all of his points hard to take seriously.
You're doing yourself a disservice if you neglect substance when discussing ideas just because you don't approve of the form.
Communication in real life is 10% verbal and 90% non-verbal, or something like that. I wouldn't say that writing is quite as drastically distributed, but style IS an important factor of how your ideas are interpreted. You know the adage, "It's not what you say but how you say it." If you don't care enough to present your ideas in a comprehensive and adult manner, then why should a reader care enough to appreciate, understand, or believe them? This falls back to what I said in response to Incognoto: it speaks of how much effort he is putting into this, in other words how seriously he takes the situation. It's not up to par, in my opinion.
And, I would like to note that Orr specifically pointed out that he doesn't know enough about the player or the situation to make a verdict, so he focused on the one thing he can knowingly comment on. That's a responsible disclaimer and his consequent analysis is based on a foundation he made clear to us all. You judging him for neglecting substance when he said from the start that's not what he is focusing on in his statement is just blowing hot air.
Seems like you missed that I was only commenting on the bolded part.
Why should you as a reader care enough to appriciate, understand, or believe someone whose style/form/grammar/vocabulary/semantics you do not approve of? To broaden your horizon? To try to become more enlightened by trying to assume someone else's point of view?
If you dismiss an idea just because of how someone presented it, I do believe all you're accomplishing is clouding your own chance to make a sound judgement call. Im not saying that it would hurt if someone "makes an effort" when trying to explain themselves/present an idea in terms of how likely they are to "be taken seriously". All Im saying is striving to look past form to focus on what matters is not just a commendable notion that helps discussions/exchanges of ideas to be more civil and constructive, it also is a service to yourself.
I did! My apologies. I answered to the whole text.
I'm not sure where this line of questioning goes but the point is if the writer does not care, neither should the reader. If I were pleading my case and looking for support in a situation I felt was unjust, I would do my utmost to convince the reader. So far, I have not seen that level of effort from Major. That's all I'm saying.
I dismiss the ideas because of WHAT was presented. I never commented on the presentation until people discredited Orr for his statements. Presentation was never a factor in my questioning/analysis of the situation. I did ignore semantics, syntax, and grammar in favor of looking at the statements themselves. I agree with you, but I don't think it should be overlooked that even after a situation where Major was at best careless and at worst a cheater, he continues to be careless in his writing. If I were in his position I would do as Orr said, have other people look over my statements and try to present the best possible face. That is all.
Well, I do think Major tried to explain himself/handle the situation the best way he knew how. I, too, would have adviced him to ask friends of his with good English to help him out with PR - no disagreement between us there :D
What I wrote about form and sustance wasnt adressed to you, by the way, at all. I just wrote "you" like the grammatical generic you instead of one because that sounds so wierd (at least to me).
Major careless? xDD guilty as charged
I was aware that English wasn't his first language before my initial post. And that has no bearing whatsoever on my initial contention. His personal integrity and professional future is on the line. And instead of taking the time to articulately compose a clear and concise response to the events in question, that will hopefully help clear his name in this critical domain of public judgement; he writes run-on, profanity laced tirades, using the caps-lock to try and accentuate important points, and an almost complete lack of acceptable formatting and punctuation. This is laughable in any language, considering the stakes. If we want others to take eSports seriously, and view progamers as legitimate professional athletes, then they need to act the part.
The much more troubling part for me, is the actual underlying logic behind his arguments.
In his first statement, the central tenant of his case is that because of his clearly superior win-rates against certain opposition, match-fixing can't be possible. When in reality, that is exactly the type of player most likely to be able to successfully cheat. It's pretty hard to alter the expected outcome of a game if you're the much inferior player and likely to lose straight up.
In his second statement, his logic holds that since every other programmer is (allegedly) sharing accounts, even though he acknowledges it's against the rules, that absolves him of all responsibility. This type of thinking (lack of all personal accountability) is unfortunately far too prevalent in all facets of society nowadays. But he doesn't stop there. He builds off this existing fallacy, to claim that if action was taken against all cases of account sharing, that not only would the entire foreign pro scene collapse, but so too would the entire Korean one (where he states every single player there is guilty too).
I've never watched Major's games, and have no stake in this either way. Definitely appears Blizzard lacked clear transparency, and handled the entire situation in a less than ideal way. But I took the time to read his statements, since match-fixing is the most serious offense any progamer can be accused of (within the confines of the actual game). And I came away troubled, by what little respect his responses indicated to me that he holds towards the entire SC2 professional scene, and by extension, the passionate fans like us on here, who are the very foundation of this great game.
To be fair he did wrote a statement on his FB page(in spanish), and was well written, not absolutely perfect, but well written and understandable, i think he was kinda desesperated when he wrote here. I still having a hard time believing Blizzard, because what does MajOr wins from letting certain guy win in a ladder game? i also want to see some proofs, i mean matchfixing it´s a serious thing that must be proved, even tho im mexican i´m not a big fan of Major, i prefer guys like Jimrising, but i must admit this is a very strong punch to the Mexican and latin american scene, i mean come on it´s not like we have tons of great players and i´ve seen him play live and the guy is fucking amazing at this game, he also makes interesting games and is one of the best foreign terrans, kinda sad :/, but personally i hope this ends in the best way, Alea iacta est.
His lame attempts to justify account sharing and leaving a game to gift points? Anyone whose on TL since sc2 launch would know what kind of person this guy is. Perfectly justified ban IMO, hope it stays this way too.
Not that it clouds my judgement on this topic, but i have played this guy a few times on the ladder and he is just a pure scum.
On April 13 2016 16:15 Shortizz wrote: People are really buying his story?
His lame attempts to justify account sharing and leaving a game to gift points? Anyone whose on TL since sc2 launch would know what kind of person this guy is. Perfectly justified ban IMO, hope it stays this way too.
Not that it clouds my judgement on this topic, but i have played this guy a few times on the ladder and he is just a pure scum.
Normally I don't really take sides in such discussions, however I agree that MajOr is probably one of the few exceptions. That doesn't take away his rights for an answer, however I also feel that if Blizzard would release details on MajOr's ban, they would set a precedent and would get more and more shitstorms over the years/ it would be harder to prove certain next bans.
We should just wait it out, as I'm almost positive that Blizzard -whatever you think of them- is highly aware of what reputation damage is capable of.
All I can say is that I'm not the least bit surprised MajOr got involved in something like this, since he's always been on the frontline of drama.
He also cancelled multiple events last minute, without letting organisations know on time, effectively costing them alot¹of money and time. He acts privileged and then lashes out on organizers publicly, most of the time without giving the organizers the time for explanation² (as is with most news, negative 'news' sparks much more reactions than positive, so damage would be done already). If I would ever run an event, I would never include a player as unprofessional as this. I sincerely hope for MajOr he gets his act together, because apart from playing SC2, I doubt he can get away with this behavior in ANY (work)environment if he continues on the path he's been on the last 4 years..
Regardless of what he did this time is really true or not. Such a player doesn't belong in the scene IMHO.
I would like to end this post with saying that in no way I consider MajOr a "cheater" or a "match-fixer". If this topic gets proven, I still wouldn't think it counts as fully "cheating". I merely think it's been a stupid mistake by some young boys who thought they could get away with "such a small thing". Ladder hasn't been 'this' competitive in SC2 ever, so it was just a wrong judgement-call. Even considering what I think of MajOr personally and for the sport, this isn't the way to lose a career over.
They shouldn't be perma-banned for this IMO, just 1 last warning to all.
On April 13 2016 16:03 Bill Murray wrote: his actions and explanation (while i believe him) are suspicious, and he admits himself that they are suspicious.
if you feel bad, don't queue for the game, it's that simple. its like saying well i only drank one beer while i was driving, im not drunk, so i shouldnt get punished... ur still drinking and driving...
if he queued and instantly left the game at all he deserves to be punished. no game, and no ONE should be cool with people that quit games. it's against the spirit of the game to play with people that refuse to play the game. i'm ok with him getting blackballed over this, honestly.
idk i feel there is still a real life factor here not being looked at. You know things like the doorbell rings telephone etc (sickness has a ton reasons alone) and to be honest if there is no actual money on the line i'm fine with people leaving ladder games if its not a tournament its still just a "game"
Why was he even playing EU Ladder if he knew this qualification was going on? Seeing what Major did in the past I can totally see him doing it on purpose to atleast make them lose points and annoy them.
Why was he even playing EU Ladder if he knew this qualification was going on?
Why would you specifically avoid playing the game just because there's a qualification going on?
Because you could play on your own ladder with your real account for a start?... I mean it's easy to understand when smurfing and trolling is ok and when it's not... he's not just like you and me, he's a pro, and when you play professionally, you have to behave professionally. Cause never ever in the world you can dismiss the possibility that he quitted a game against a team mate that he would have never left against another guy (say Bly for instance...)
I'm not saying he's guilty or anything, I'm just saying a little bit of wit could have saved him a lot of troubles. I think that's also the message from Blizzard to all pro gamers : "better behave correctly during ladder selection if you don't want to be hit by the shitstorm"
That said, Blizzard not being as idiotic as people on these forums seem to think, I'm sure they're already thinking about possible change for next seasons to avoid this (like Nony's proposition for example)
On April 13 2016 16:15 Shortizz wrote: People are really buying his story?
His lame attempts to justify account sharing and leaving a game to gift points? Anyone whose on TL since sc2 launch would know what kind of person this guy is. Perfectly justified ban IMO, hope it stays this way too.
Not that it clouds my judgement on this topic, but i have played this guy a few times on the ladder and he is just a pure scum.
How is it giving points when he has a winning record against each player on the same day and took more points from them than they did from him ?
On April 13 2016 16:15 Shortizz wrote: People are really buying his story?
His lame attempts to justify account sharing and leaving a game to gift points? Anyone whose on TL since sc2 launch would know what kind of person this guy is. Perfectly justified ban IMO, hope it stays this way too.
Not that it clouds my judgement on this topic, but i have played this guy a few times on the ladder and he is just a pure scum.
How is it giving points when he has a winning record against each player on the same day and took more points from them than they did from him ?
This keeps coming up from multiple posters so I'm going to conclusively explain it here, at least in regards to his teammate:
1. The wins were BEFORE the two losses. Then when there were 4 hours remaining, he lost 2 matches. This gives credence to the possibility that his teammate messaged him 4 hours before the end of the qualifier and said "please I just need some points man." Major had nothing to lose (or so he thought) as it's not his region's qualifier, so he thought "why not?"
2. Regardless of how many points he won earlier in the day, he still gave points. That is not debatable. As I said in a previous post, even if he took more points than he gave, it does not change the fact that he gave points. Look at it this way:
-10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline +10 points Win 4 hours before deadline (GIVEN FOR FREE BEFORE THE GAME EVEN STARTED) +10 points Win 4 hours before deadline, immediately after having left during queue, with two back-to-back cheese attempts against a player he beat soundly 6 times in a row that very day
It doesn't matter how many points changed hands. Major is still guilty of giving points for free, at least one time. That is inalienable fact.
On April 14 2016 04:02 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: So pro gamer are not allowed to loose any games 4 hours before the end? lol
Especially since none of those players even remotely had a shot at qualifying in the remaining 4 hours even with a big winstreak.
and of course players are gonna cheese when there is not much time left to maximize the number of games.
I think you have a very poor understanding of the situation. Let me help you out.
1. Major was not going to qualify regardless, because it was Europe server, and he's from the Americas, so cheesing to maximize number of games is not a valid argument.
2. Progamers are allowed to lose games 4 hours before the end, as I'm sure many players in the top 16 of the qualifier have. However, "progamers" should not be allowed to give points by leaving during the countdown timer.
3. The subjective viability of someone qualifying is not relevant to the fact that the crime was committed. He went on EU server, queued against his teammate, then left before countdown timer. This is textbook giving free wins.
4. Did I mention he's been caught cheating before? Ok.
4th point is irrelevant, whatever he did previously has no impact on what happened in this case. It could however impact how much we trust his explanations
On April 14 2016 04:07 Jealous wrote: 3. The subjective viability of someone qualifying is not relevant to the fact that the crime was committed. He went on EU server, queued against his teammate, then left before countdown timer. This is textbook giving free wins.
So if the Rank 1 player on the ladder got queued against bronze players somehow, and instantly left, during the countdown timer, you would advocate for his disqualification?
Of course the viability of someone qualifying or not matters.
On April 14 2016 04:07 Jealous wrote: 3. The subjective viability of someone qualifying is not relevant to the fact that the crime was committed. He went on EU server, queued against his teammate, then left before countdown timer. This is textbook giving free wins.
So if the Rank 1 player on the ladder got queued against bronze players somehow, and instantly left, during the countdown timer, you would advocate for his disqualification?
Of course the viability of someone qualifying or not matters.
I never advocated for straight up disqualification as a universal measure. Context is important. In previous posts I agreed with others that Blizzard's decision, based on what evidence we have (all provided by Major), was hasty and extreme. I have also said that if a person drops a game today, then gets a phone call next week, and a delivery the week after that, that is understandable. However, Major himself stated that he was dropping games all day and that he knew he was too ill to play normally. I focus more on his decision-making and less on Blizzard's actions in this matter, because Major should have known what he did was not okay. I boiled it down to three possibilities, either he is ignorant and didn't know, he did know but didn't care, or he did it intentionally in the games vs. his teammate, all of which I find unacceptable for a person who has a "progamer" tag on this site and is recognized as such elsewhere.
So, to answer your question more directly, no I don't think that your #1 player should be disqualified, but my decision could easily change based on context, history, and subsequent explanations.
The problem here seems to be that 'training mode' became genuine competition just by Blizzard saying so!
All the stuff people do on ladder just for fun or at most practice, because the environment was set up exactly that way, was suddenly punished harshly since they are against the 'rules of competition'.
But these rules were never enforced before and are not even defined clearly! For how long does ladder turn into the genuine real stuff? A week? A day? 4 hours? And for whom? Top 100? Top 20? Are already qualified player included? And players from other regions?
It's like if FIFA would place an announcement the local papers that they are looking for good youth players in a city. And then expect the neighborhood boys to play to full FIFA rules once they arrive at the local grass playground. Worse, when a player commits a foul he immediately gets a red card and is banned from the game for month, even though the boy has never played with a referee present. And all the time the grass field did not even have proper goal posts and only the boys with certain potential got penalized while most could still play their grass soccer like they have always done (not caring about number of players, changing teams mid-game and pausing for ice cream).
On April 13 2016 16:15 Shortizz wrote: People are really buying his story?
His lame attempts to justify account sharing and leaving a game to gift points? Anyone whose on TL since sc2 launch would know what kind of person this guy is. Perfectly justified ban IMO, hope it stays this way too.
Not that it clouds my judgement on this topic, but i have played this guy a few times on the ladder and he is just a pure scum.
How is it giving points when he has a winning record against each player on the same day and took more points from them than they did from him ?
This keeps coming up from multiple posters so I'm going to conclusively explain it here, at least in regards to his teammate:
1. The wins were BEFORE the two losses. Then when there were 4 hours remaining, he lost 2 matches. This gives credence to the possibility that his teammate messaged him 4 hours before the end of the qualifier and said "please I just need some points man." Major had nothing to lose (or so he thought) as it's not his region's qualifier, so he thought "why not?"
2. Regardless of how many points he won earlier in the day, he still gave points. That is not debatable. As I said in a previous post, even if he took more points than he gave, it does not change the fact that he gave points. Look at it this way:
-10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline +10 points Win 4 hours before deadline (GIVEN FOR FREE BEFORE THE GAME EVEN STARTED) +10 points Win 4 hours before deadline, immediately after having left during queue, with two back-to-back cheese attempts against a player he beat soundly 6 times in a row that very day
It doesn't matter how many points changed hands. Major is still guilty of giving points for free, at least one time. That is inalienable fact.
Consequences dont matter when considering punishments? Thats a new one.
On April 13 2016 16:15 Shortizz wrote: People are really buying his story?
His lame attempts to justify account sharing and leaving a game to gift points? Anyone whose on TL since sc2 launch would know what kind of person this guy is. Perfectly justified ban IMO, hope it stays this way too.
Not that it clouds my judgement on this topic, but i have played this guy a few times on the ladder and he is just a pure scum.
How is it giving points when he has a winning record against each player on the same day and took more points from them than they did from him ?
This keeps coming up from multiple posters so I'm going to conclusively explain it here, at least in regards to his teammate:
1. The wins were BEFORE the two losses. Then when there were 4 hours remaining, he lost 2 matches. This gives credence to the possibility that his teammate messaged him 4 hours before the end of the qualifier and said "please I just need some points man." Major had nothing to lose (or so he thought) as it's not his region's qualifier, so he thought "why not?"
2. Regardless of how many points he won earlier in the day, he still gave points. That is not debatable. As I said in a previous post, even if he took more points than he gave, it does not change the fact that he gave points. Look at it this way:
-10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline +10 points Win 4 hours before deadline (GIVEN FOR FREE BEFORE THE GAME EVEN STARTED) +10 points Win 4 hours before deadline, immediately after having left during queue, with two back-to-back cheese attempts against a player he beat soundly 6 times in a row that very day
It doesn't matter how many points changed hands. Major is still guilty of giving points for free, at least one time. That is inalienable fact.
Consequences dont matter when considering punishments? Thats a new one.
So if I cheat and lose it isn't deserving of the same punishment? You must root devious behavior out, top to bottom.
On April 14 2016 04:07 Jealous wrote: 3. The subjective viability of someone qualifying is not relevant to the fact that the crime was committed. He went on EU server, queued against his teammate, then left before countdown timer. This is textbook giving free wins.
So if the Rank 1 player on the ladder got queued against bronze players somehow, and instantly left, during the countdown timer, you would advocate for his disqualification?
Of course the viability of someone qualifying or not matters.
major you are a dirty liar and nobody believes you, what GM just ques a game and leaves it to "go lie down" seems like you would just GO LIE DOWN, infact major if you are reading this, you and your career should #GOLIEDOWN #GOLIARDOWN
On April 13 2016 16:15 Shortizz wrote: People are really buying his story?
His lame attempts to justify account sharing and leaving a game to gift points? Anyone whose on TL since sc2 launch would know what kind of person this guy is. Perfectly justified ban IMO, hope it stays this way too.
Not that it clouds my judgement on this topic, but i have played this guy a few times on the ladder and he is just a pure scum.
How is it giving points when he has a winning record against each player on the same day and took more points from them than they did from him ?
This keeps coming up from multiple posters so I'm going to conclusively explain it here, at least in regards to his teammate:
1. The wins were BEFORE the two losses. Then when there were 4 hours remaining, he lost 2 matches. This gives credence to the possibility that his teammate messaged him 4 hours before the end of the qualifier and said "please I just need some points man." Major had nothing to lose (or so he thought) as it's not his region's qualifier, so he thought "why not?"
2. Regardless of how many points he won earlier in the day, he still gave points. That is not debatable. As I said in a previous post, even if he took more points than he gave, it does not change the fact that he gave points. Look at it this way:
-10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline -10 points Loss somewhere in the 24 hours before deadline +10 points Win 4 hours before deadline (GIVEN FOR FREE BEFORE THE GAME EVEN STARTED) +10 points Win 4 hours before deadline, immediately after having left during queue, with two back-to-back cheese attempts against a player he beat soundly 6 times in a row that very day
It doesn't matter how many points changed hands. Major is still guilty of giving points for free, at least one time. That is inalienable fact.
Consequences dont matter when considering punishments? Thats a new one.
So if I cheat and lose it isn't deserving of the same punishment? You must root devious behavior out, top to bottom.
You a happy crusader now? In other news, MarineLorD said MajOr is innocent.
He's said MajOr is not complicit to the win-trading with DnS (though MajOr did have access to that account). He hasn't said anything about (and probably doesn't know the details of) the rest of MajOr's ladder behaviour.
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
Oh for f sake. Reading the rest of this thread is a complete eye sore. You do realize there are other ways of disconnecting right? You don't need hacks to shake your head at that one. I knew people who used to unplug their pcs or d/c their internet/modems as they were about to lose games. Hence d/c. The fact you're using the ladder creates all kinds of fucking problems. Remember TSL guys and how bad it was to admin that kind of shit. In this situation I can only shake my head and it's funny because I haven't heard of many scenarios like this in quite a while.
Blizzard your system is a joke and you don't have the arms in frigging place to monitor all the accounts on your ladder nor should you.
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
Oh for f sake. Reading the rest of this thread is a complete eye sore. You do realize there are other ways of disconnecting right? You don't need hacks to shake your head at that one. I knew people who used to unplug their pcs or d/c their internet/modems as they were about to lose games. Hence d/c. The fact you're using the ladder creates all kinds of fucking problems. Remember TSL guys and how bad it was to admin that kind of shit. In this situation I can only shake my head and it's funny because I haven't heard of many scenarios like this in quite a while.
Blizzard your system is a joke and you don't have the arms in frigging place to monitor all the accounts on your ladder nor should you.
That is all besides the point. The system being bad has no bearing on Major's actions, which Blizzard has confirmed. You can find more details here:
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
Oh for f sake. Reading the rest of this thread is a complete eye sore. You do realize there are other ways of disconnecting right? You don't need hacks to shake your head at that one. I knew people who used to unplug their pcs or d/c their internet/modems as they were about to lose games. Hence d/c. The fact you're using the ladder creates all kinds of fucking problems. Remember TSL guys and how bad it was to admin that kind of shit. In this situation I can only shake my head and it's funny because I haven't heard of many scenarios like this in quite a while.
Blizzard your system is a joke and you don't have the arms in frigging place to monitor all the accounts on your ladder nor should you.
That is all besides the point. The system being bad has no bearing on Major's actions, which Blizzard has confirmed. You can find more details here:
I can just imagine Major going through this in front of his screen, "Ugh... I feel so shitty .. I'm going to queue up again! I must, even though there is no benefit to me and my laddering affects other people who are trying to qualify in this tour!"
Then, as soon as the countdown starts, he can't hold it anymore, and he stumbles his way to the bathroom, is sick, feels like shit, takes medicine, looks forlornly at his bed... "no, wey, you cannot give up, you have pointless ladder games to do."
So he forces himself to sit down at his computer once more, "ok... *burp* I'll be ok this time..."
And then this repeats over and over (by his own admission)? Rofl. Let me see that doctor's note.
The people defending Major are doing the equivalent of accepting the "my dog ate my homework" excuse. Can't be proven, can't be disproven. You are also accepting that Major knew he was too sick to play, and kept queuing anyway, in ladder games that had the potential to affect qualifiers. He ignored his condition and ended up giving two easy wins to his opponent, who just so happens to be his teammate, and doesn't think there is any sort of problem with this. Riiiiiight. If this is all true, then Major must be intellectually handicapped. If it's not true, then he is a rule-breaking liar and a cheat.
so if my internet dropped after finding a game im a cheater too? shit happens theres about 100000 stuff it can happen after u find a game. what if i had a important phone call that i had to take and was gonna lsat long? im still a cheater? it just happened to be i needed to go to the bathroom so use your brain before commenting
Internet dropping, there would be a record of it, no? Player disconnected?
F10 + P, "Sorry I gotta take this call, get the door, take a shit, make an excuse about how my dog ate my homework, write this doctor's note, and take my medicine, please wait." If the other person leaves, you get the points, ezmoney.
Oh for f sake. Reading the rest of this thread is a complete eye sore. You do realize there are other ways of disconnecting right? You don't need hacks to shake your head at that one. I knew people who used to unplug their pcs or d/c their internet/modems as they were about to lose games. Hence d/c. The fact you're using the ladder creates all kinds of fucking problems. Remember TSL guys and how bad it was to admin that kind of shit. In this situation I can only shake my head and it's funny because I haven't heard of many scenarios like this in quite a while.
Blizzard your system is a joke and you don't have the arms in frigging place to monitor all the accounts on your ladder nor should you.
That is all besides the point. The system being bad has no bearing on Major's actions, which Blizzard has confirmed. You can find more details here:
lol it is like you are earning money for the dq of Major, so bad i cant comment on your behavior because I would be banned from here.
?
From the get-go, his excuses seemed suspicious. Throughout this thread I explained the reasons for my misgivings. I've remained civil. What's so wrong about my behavior? Are you implying that somehow my posting warrants a ban, whereas Major's actions are a-okay? Lol. I doubt you will be banned for disagreeing with me, that's not how it works around here.
EPT
MajOr has been disqualified from Copa América 2016 Season 2 and has been replaced by 
Tunico.
Pacomike
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BCjY615.png)
