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Starting on Page 7, using the phrase, "Welfare Circus Series/System" will result in mod action. It breeds negativity and it's just generally a stupid thing to say. All in all, please stop discussing the WCS system, this thread is about the disqualification. |
Australia18228 Posts
http://open.dreamhack.se/news/357-starcraft-ii-wcs-eu-challenger-series-update.html
We have an update regarding the current WCS EU Challenger series. As part of an ongoing investigation into win-trading, two players have been removed from the WCS EU Challenger series. The players MarineLorD and DnS are now ineligible to participate in the WCS EU Challenger series leading into the WCS Circuit Spring Championship at DreamHack ZOWIE Open Tours. As such, the bracket has been redrawn, and the two places are taken by Bly and Guru, as 15th and 16th seeds.
As of today, this ruling only applies to the WCS EU Challenger series for the WCS Circuit Spring Championship. However, win-trading is a serious offence and there may be further consequences upon completion of the investigation.
Redrawn bracket:
![[image loading]](http://open.dreamhack.se/images/9587258-challengereu.png)
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Bisutopia19214 Posts
That doesn't sound good at all.
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But wasnt wintrading exactly a thing that happend in previous season and no one cared.... Yes players cared but not blizzard.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 08 2016 22:44 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
But wasnt wintrading exactly a thing that happend in previous season and no one cared....
According to the rulebook of 2016 they can care when they want! 
Hehehehehe, as a Welfare Circus Series hater I kinda love it, yay!
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Proud to be french today...
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36990 Posts
If you look at the screen from a distance and from an angle, UTHERMAL VS DAYSHI ends up kind of looking like: UTHERMAL VS DAY9!!!
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Bly's tweets already alluded to wintrading. Sad.
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What a dumb thing to do. :s
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This so sad we had like 100k viewers at Peak! Due to these things happening first in Korea and now EU we lose moe and more viewers !!! wtf your breaking the Game for the Fans!
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On April 08 2016 22:49 Saechiis wrote:
Bly's tweets already alluded to wintrading. Sad.
So Bly was win trading as well?
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Italy3286 Posts
...kinda ironic how Bly, who did the same thing in the Winter Ladder and moved on without problem, is now replacing MarineLorD who is now getting punished...
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Bly cheated last time, got noticed and managed to get to Katowice without qualifying.
One suspicious game is enough to suspend two players.
Interesting way of handling things.
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This win-trading.. is this done right before the time when the top 16 is determined?
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With the amount of tourneys going on now and the region lock, I guess they want to maintain integrity and follow KeSPA?
Also, mandatory Liquid teamkill? Maybe 2x?
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Australia18228 Posts
Could potentially lose his Spring Champ spot too
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So Bly cries like a baby and then he's put back into the bracket?
Hope the replay is relevant though, cause if it's not...
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Well Apollo let us know first :
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Oh MLord.. And you were one of the 32 players as well!
Seriously tho, c'mon people
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There's still a difference between what Bly did last season and what (I assume) MLord and DnS did this season. Last season Bly did lose games in the hope to modify his seed and it wasn't his intention to help any other player. This season, I suppose MLord lost a bunch of games in purpose to DnS to help him climb the ladder.
I don't know if this difference is enough to justify the difference in treatement they received. Maybe it was just the fact that the WCS Handbook wasn't out last time.
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On April 08 2016 22:59 Diabolique wrote:
What is wintrading?
Marinelord is accused to have given DnS a freewin win in the ladder race to enable DnS to reach to 16 and be qualified for the event.
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On April 08 2016 22:59 Diabolique wrote:
What is wintrading?
I suppose in this case that MLord lost a bunch of games on purpose to DnS in order to help him win points.
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On April 08 2016 23:03 sAsImre wrote:
w/e
So it must be that the rules weren't out last time.
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On April 08 2016 23:03 Gwavajuice wrote:Marinelord is accused to have given DnS a freewin win in the ladder race to enable DnS to reach to 16 and be qualified for the event.
On April 08 2016 23:03 Aelendis wrote:I suppose in this case that MLord lost a bunch of games on purpose to DnS in order to help him win points.
OK, I see, thanks. I thought it would be something like match fixing ...
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this is why we cant have nice things!!! 
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How can you ever prove you lost a game on purpose? Just 2 rax and fail it.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 08 2016 22:59 Diabolique wrote:
What is wintrading?
Wintrading, in general, is when 2 players(teams) need points in a larger ladder competition and whenever they meet each other one of them lose and the other wins. This happens many times again and again and thus they generate points to be on higher positions.
This was happening mostly in the deep abyss of bronze where achievement hunters were placed back in the days
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french people always has evil plans.
User was temp banned for this post.
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You can look at the history of dns and there is one suspicion game on ulrena where he does a 3g. Then there is a "macro" game on dusk (9:10) and a dns lose.
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How sad. No koreans, the foreigners that are playing aren't great, and people are cheating too.
This isn't a nail in the coffin, this is a bucket of dirt over the coffin that's already under a truckload of dirt.
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Well it wasn't on his main account because this is MarineLorD's match history.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zWKdZWz.jpg)
This is DnS's match history:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Z89DQrA.jpg)
And these would be the 3 games he played vs a barcode terran went 2-1.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ls0dWit.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/43zf71J.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bOFUDvb.jpg)
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Why did they pick Guru instead of TomadusT(spelling?!) in the screenshot in the tweet shows he's higher ranked than guru.
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On April 08 2016 23:13 KonanTenshi wrote:
Why did they pick Guru instead of TomadusT(spelling?!) in the screenshot in the tweet shows he's higher ranked than guru.
TornadusT is MajOr who isn't eligible.
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On April 08 2016 23:13 KonanTenshi wrote:
Why did they pick Guru instead of TomadusT(spelling?!) in the screenshot in the tweet shows he's higher ranked than guru.
probably not Eu (and probably MajOr since mencemeat is no longer on the ladder)
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On April 08 2016 23:11 SNSeigifried wrote:Well it wasn't on his main account because this is MarineLorD's match history. + Show Spoiler +And these would be the 3 games he played vs a barcode terran went 2-1. + Show Spoiler +
really, that's all they would have? a 2-1 serie with fast (I suppose all in) games against a barcode smurf account?
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On April 08 2016 22:57 Inflicted wrote:
Could potentially lose his Spring Champ spot too
that's why i'm interested in, is marinelord out of Tours also ?
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On April 08 2016 23:15 Gwavajuice wrote:really, that's all they would have? a 2-1 serie with fast (I suppose all in) games against a barcode smurf account?
1 all in, 1 normal game and a lose for DNS. The all in is a 3g double zealot into adepts without msc/warp gates.
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On April 08 2016 23:14 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:13 KonanTenshi wrote:
Why did they pick Guru instead of TomadusT(spelling?!) in the screenshot in the tweet shows he's higher ranked than guru. TornadusT is MajOr who isn't eligible.
That explains it ^^ Cheers.
So weird they decide to only rule win trading on the eu ladder and not on the na (if there are any)
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nobody cares about welfare circus series anyways. low level player galore.
User was temp banned for this post.
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StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Good thing Dreamhack features other games.
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On April 08 2016 23:15 Gwavajuice wrote:really, that's all they would have? a 2-1 serie with fast (I suppose all in) games against a barcode smurf account?
This. Like so much troubles for just one win overall, which if removed does not take him out of the top16?
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On April 08 2016 23:17 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:15 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 08 2016 23:11 SNSeigifried wrote:Well it wasn't on his main account because this is MarineLorD's match history. + Show Spoiler +And these would be the 3 games he played vs a barcode terran went 2-1. + Show Spoiler + really, that's all they would have? a 2-1 serie with fast (I suppose all in) games against a barcode smurf account? 1 all in, 1 normal game and a lose for DNS. The all in is a 3g double zealot into adepts without msc/warp gates.
Okay, so I call it bullshit. The ladder race as it is designed is forcing palyers into crazy all-in short games, cause they need a lot of victory in a a very small amount of time. There is no way you go for a late game plan in this context.
Good luck then finding out which, of all the <5 mins games there must have been yesterday, are the ones where the looser didn't put enough effort into trying to stay in game.
You can't just take a random game like this and disqualify 2 players, just because you fell like to.
edit : typo and punctuation to try and make it clearer.
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On April 08 2016 23:15 Gwavajuice wrote:really, that's all they would have? a 2-1 serie with fast (I suppose all in) games against a barcode smurf account?
There was only 10 point difference between Top 18 and Top 8. Assuming the accusations are true, DNS got 27 points from those 3 games and he would have been in rank 19 if he did not get those points.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
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This is why we need kespa to take over the foreign scene
though i'm not gonna lie, the first thought that went through my head when reading the thread title is "marinelord has korean origins?"
edit:
ps deacon, i disagreed with you in the kespa thread but i'm agreeing with you right now. wcs welfare is a fucking joke with joke players who don't know what it means to compete
"win-trading" is also just a pretty word for match-fixing btw
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well tbh Bly is the guy that would lead you to think FireCake is a nice fellow 
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Still, as a french, I would like to have more elements on Mlord disqualification...
edit: And what about this: http://imgur.com/85B2CjR This qualification system sucks.
...
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On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling
The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted. It's so ironic that the foreign scene gets gifted a whole tournament series and keeps shitting on it by balance whining, and, in this case, cheating. I still cheer for the likes of guys like Snute that devote a lot to the game in a great manner but there's so much toxicity and salt in the foreign player base that it's fucking unbearable.
MMA's retirement precisely marks the point where I lost absolute (positive) interest in StarCraft II.
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On April 08 2016 23:25 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:17 sAsImre wrote:On April 08 2016 23:15 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 08 2016 23:11 SNSeigifried wrote:Well it wasn't on his main account because this is MarineLorD's match history. + Show Spoiler +And these would be the 3 games he played vs a barcode terran went 2-1. + Show Spoiler + really, that's all they would have? a 2-1 serie with fast (I suppose all in) games against a barcode smurf account? 1 all in, 1 normal game and a lose for DNS. The all in is a 3g double zealot into adepts without msc/warp gates. Okay, so I call it bullshit. The ladder race as it is designed is forcing palyers into crazy all-in short games, cause they need a lot of victory in a a very small amount of time. There is no way you go for a late game plan in this context. Good luck then finding out which, of all the <5 mins games there must have been yesterday, are the ones where the looser didn't put enough effort into trying to stay in game. You can't just take a random game like this and disqualify 2 players, just because you fell like to. edit : typo and punctuation to try and make it clearer.
Remember that they've access to way more information that we do. Based on the historic it looks ok, maybe the replays/logs are telling a way different story.
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On April 08 2016 23:29 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted.
just watch the korean scene, that's the right one when it comes to starcraft
blizzard killed off the foreigner scene
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Ya. welfare circus series goes on and on with useless drama meanwhile we have only 4 individual tournaments in korea this year. four.
seriously, just 4. and only 8 koreans go to Blizzcon. Embarrassing
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i demand kespa to investigate into this with the UN as soon as possible
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On April 08 2016 23:31 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:29 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted. just watch the korean scene, that's the right one when it comes to starcraft blizzard killed off the foreigner scene
I'm trying! But due to timezones and a normal 9 to 5 job it's really really fucking hard to catch a glimpse of Korean SC2.
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On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling
ok we are all heated by the news, but it's not enough to accuse WCS of every evil. The ladder race is a nice idea but we all knew this kind of situations would eventually happen.
The point now is to get out of it with a reasonable solution, so this is fixed for the future.
To me, banning people while an investigation is undergoing is just bad, cause the purpose of the investigation should be to decide if they should be banned in the first place.
Let's just wait and see ML, DnS and millenium team's reactions.
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That's not how a princes should behave
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On April 08 2016 23:34 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling ok we are all heated by the news, but it's not enough to accuse WCS of every evil. The ladder race is a nice idea but we all knew this kind of situations would eventually happen. The point now is to get out of it with a reasonable solution, so this is fixed for the future. To me, banning people while an investigation is undergoing is just bad, cause the purpose of the investigation should be to decide if they should be banned in the first place. Let's just wait and see ML, DnS and millenium team's reactions.
The ladder race is not a nice idea. It's a tool to make ladder relevant. Why the ladder should be relevant in the first place is not really clear as somehow StarCraft made it through 5 years without ladder being relevant.
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On April 08 2016 23:31 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:29 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted. just watch the korean scene, that's the right one when it comes to starcraft blizzard killed off the foreigner scene
Korean starcraft is amazing with LotV. The best it has ever been when it comes to the quality of the games.
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wait, I'm confused. They do Nothing about the Chinese set fixing with Has and Sioras. Then some games are queue'd up on ladder and they are worried about it now? Where is the rulebook?
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I am confused the rank 17 Bar Code was Naniwa right? Why is he not eligible?
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On April 08 2016 23:43 AvonMexicola wrote:
I am confused the rank 17 Bar Code was Naniwa right? Why is he not eligible?
You need to use a named account, barcode are forbidden.
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On April 08 2016 23:43 AvonMexicola wrote:
I am confused the rank 17 Bar Code was Naniwa right? Why is he not eligible?
barcodes are not eligible
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DAYSHIIIII !
Dayshi right now :
![[image loading]](https://media.giphy.com/media/8fen5LSZcHQ5O/giphy.gif)
User was warned for this post
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On April 08 2016 23:41 tokinho wrote:
wait, I'm confused. They do Nothing about the Chinese set fixing with Has and Sioras. Then some games are queue'd up on ladder and they are worried about it now? Where is the rulebook?
here : rulebook, although it's not clear ladder race is a WCS event that falls under these rules, but I supposed they can say it is if they want...
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On April 08 2016 23:43 AvonMexicola wrote:
I am confused the rank 17 Bar Code was Naniwa right? Why is he not eligible?
Because Naniwa is in USA now?
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On April 08 2016 23:36 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:31 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:29 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted. just watch the korean scene, that's the right one when it comes to starcraft blizzard killed off the foreigner scene Korean starcraft is amazing with LotV. The best it has ever been when it comes to the quality of the games.
just needs a shift in TvT meta, and it's paradise :p
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On April 08 2016 23:33 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:31 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:29 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted. just watch the korean scene, that's the right one when it comes to starcraft blizzard killed off the foreigner scene I'm trying! But due to timezones and a normal 9 to 5 job it's really really fucking hard to catch a glimpse of Korean SC2.
it's all on youtube and twitch now and in HD, you don't have any excuse
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On April 08 2016 23:44 Topin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:43 AvonMexicola wrote:
I am confused the rank 17 Bar Code was Naniwa right? Why is he not eligible? barcodes are not eligible
F**k that makes me sad, I really like his play and streams lately. Rages hard then calms down and shows a tremendous amount of self reflection and analysis.
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I don't care about the drama, but, man, does the EU bracket look stacked!
Going to be an awesome tournament.
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On April 08 2016 23:47 thickertom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:43 AvonMexicola wrote:
I am confused the rank 17 Bar Code was Naniwa right? Why is he not eligible? Because Naniwa is in USA now?
Did he tried the NA qualifier ?
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On April 08 2016 23:44 Topin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:43 AvonMexicola wrote:
I am confused the rank 17 Bar Code was Naniwa right? Why is he not eligible? barcodes are not eligible
feel like from this tweet he doesn't realise this or what?
would love to see nani competing at "highest" level again
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Australia18228 Posts
On April 08 2016 23:50 oGoZenob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:47 thickertom wrote:On April 08 2016 23:43 AvonMexicola wrote:
I am confused the rank 17 Bar Code was Naniwa right? Why is he not eligible? Because Naniwa is in USA now? Did he tried the NA qualifier ?
Don't think so. I'm pretty sure he didn't try because he couldn't make it to the actual tournament for whatever reason
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On April 08 2016 23:48 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:33 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:31 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:29 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted. just watch the korean scene, that's the right one when it comes to starcraft blizzard killed off the foreigner scene I'm trying! But due to timezones and a normal 9 to 5 job it's really really fucking hard to catch a glimpse of Korean SC2. it's all on youtube and twitch now and in HD, you don't have any excuse
Don't know why but I never was a great VOD watcher. Gonna change that habit
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On April 08 2016 23:47 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:36 sAsImre wrote:On April 08 2016 23:31 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:29 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted. just watch the korean scene, that's the right one when it comes to starcraft blizzard killed off the foreigner scene Korean starcraft is amazing with LotV. The best it has ever been when it comes to the quality of the games. just needs a shift in TvT meta, and it's paradise :p
only, koreans are not eligible to bash foreign scrub cheaters or warcraft 4 veterans.
so they must stay in korea, like the good players they are. oh and they are not allowed to have as many tournaments as the foreign scene :/
NO KOREANS ALLOWED
let's instead try to raise the mediocre, resultless foreigners with wcs welfare. my god this is so disgusting
edit: yeah for sure it's time to tune into those VODs
User was warned for this post
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WCS threads always provide the best and most creative post
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Finland926 Posts
This is really disappointing.
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Hey foreigners bashers and korean weaboo, could you go to another thread spread your hate and discuss about the topic?
I'd like to know, exactly, what is suspicious in these marinelord / dns games, plus why bly did not get dq'ed last time and what about the 20sec bunny game 4minutes before the finish.
Transparency, explanations, and equality of treatment is all i ask.
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
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On April 08 2016 23:57 hexhaven wrote:
This is really disappointing.
Yes, and some more info on what they did would be nice too. But ladder challenges without this kind of thing are rare.
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On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
Hey foreigners bashers and korean weaboo, could you go to another thread spread your hate and discuss about the topic?
I'd like to know, exactly, what is suspicious in these marinelord / dns games, plus why bly did not get dq'ed last time and what about the 20sec bunny game 4minutes before the finish.
Transparency, explanations, and equality of treatment is all i ask.
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
+1
The lack of informations is very frustating...
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On April 08 2016 23:35 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:34 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling ok we are all heated by the news, but it's not enough to accuse WCS of every evil. The ladder race is a nice idea but we all knew this kind of situations would eventually happen. The point now is to get out of it with a reasonable solution, so this is fixed for the future. To me, banning people while an investigation is undergoing is just bad, cause the purpose of the investigation should be to decide if they should be banned in the first place. Let's just wait and see ML, DnS and millenium team's reactions. The ladder race is not a nice idea. It's a tool to make ladder relevant. Why the ladder should be relevant in the first place is not really clear as somehow StarCraft made it through 5 years without ladder being relevant.
I thought it was almost universally established that ladder qualifiers made practice 10x better in the period of the qualifier. That's been some of the most universally positive feedback we've ever gotten from pros
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On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
Not really.. I actually think this is a prime example to bring back the topic of Korean discrimination to the table.
Just so you're aware, this is a topic which is constantly relevant.
It's absolutely abhorrent that Koreans are not allowed to participate in events which used to be open to all. Now Koreans are not allowed to enter these tournaments on the grounds that foreigners need to be protected.
It's especially interesting that the foreigners who are being protected are also mediocre in their game play (e.g. the welfare comparison, foreigners do not particularly deserve extra opportunities compared to Koreans) and now apparently some of them cheat.
Sorry I'm not going to shut up about it, I want Blizzard to hear what I have to say. I play the game and I watch the game as well as you do. :/
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On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
Hey foreigners bashers and korean weaboo, could you go to another thread spread your hate and discuss about the topic?
I'd like to know, exactly, what is suspicious in these marinelord / dns games, plus why bly did not get dq'ed last time and what about the 20sec bunny game 4minutes before the finish.
Transparency, explanations, and equality of treatment is all i ask.
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
"Equality of treatment" while blaming "foreigner bashers", really?
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On April 09 2016 00:03 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:35 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:34 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling ok we are all heated by the news, but it's not enough to accuse WCS of every evil. The ladder race is a nice idea but we all knew this kind of situations would eventually happen. The point now is to get out of it with a reasonable solution, so this is fixed for the future. To me, banning people while an investigation is undergoing is just bad, cause the purpose of the investigation should be to decide if they should be banned in the first place. Let's just wait and see ML, DnS and millenium team's reactions. The ladder race is not a nice idea. It's a tool to make ladder relevant. Why the ladder should be relevant in the first place is not really clear as somehow StarCraft made it through 5 years without ladder being relevant. I thought it was almost universally established that ladder qualifiers made practice 10x better in the period of the qualifier. That's been some of the most universally positive feedback we've ever gotten from pros
Good point then. Missed this.
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Goddamn matchfixers let's string them up!
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On April 08 2016 23:47 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:36 sAsImre wrote:On April 08 2016 23:31 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:29 boxerfred wrote:On April 08 2016 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Acknowledge the system by adopting new meaning of the WCS letters. Welfare Circus Series This is so good I;m so much smiling The sad thing is: if I wouldn't care, I would just stop visiting teamliquid.net. I care so much since I loved this game and devoted so much play time and viewing time to it. What this game has become, what the WCS series has become just makes me sad. It's like watching an old friend die slowly from a wound that his father inflicted. just watch the korean scene, that's the right one when it comes to starcraft blizzard killed off the foreigner scene Korean starcraft is amazing with LotV. The best it has ever been when it comes to the quality of the games. just needs a shift in TvT meta, and it's paradise :p
The shift is slowly taking place with the addition of numerous viking that reduces a bit the tankivac silliness in the early game.
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Something I don't get is why Blizzard is even putting millions of dollars into sc2 tournaments in the first place? Is sc2 tournaments actually making them significant amount money (directly or indirectly)? Why don't they just withdraw investment altogether from tourneys and just license out permissions to let enthusiasts fund their own tournaments (Kespa, Dreamhack, etc.) and let them establish their own rules of who can compete and who can't based on their own judgment?
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On April 09 2016 00:08 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
Not really.. I actually think this is a prime example to bring back the topic of Korean discrimination to the table. Just so you're aware, this is a topic which is constantly relevant. It's absolutely abhorrent that Koreans are not allowed to participate in events which used to be open to all. Now Koreans are not allowed to enter these tournaments on the grounds that foreigners need to be protected. It's especially interesting that the foreigners who are being protected are also mediocre in their game play (e.g. the welfare comparison, foreigners do not particularly deserve extra opportunities compared to Koreans) and now apparently some of them cheat. Sorry I'm not going to shut up about it, I want Blizzard to hear what I have to say. I play the game and I watch the game as well as you do. :/
You are damn right. As long as we voice our opinions in appropriate manner, I don't see why we should stfu.
Ironic that people demand us to stop the hate but keep using derogatory remarks.
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On April 09 2016 00:25 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 00:08 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
Not really.. I actually think this is a prime example to bring back the topic of Korean discrimination to the table. Just so you're aware, this is a topic which is constantly relevant. It's absolutely abhorrent that Koreans are not allowed to participate in events which used to be open to all. Now Koreans are not allowed to enter these tournaments on the grounds that foreigners need to be protected. It's especially interesting that the foreigners who are being protected are also mediocre in their game play (e.g. the welfare comparison, foreigners do not particularly deserve extra opportunities compared to Koreans) and now apparently some of them cheat. Sorry I'm not going to shut up about it, I want Blizzard to hear what I have to say. I play the game and I watch the game as well as you do. :/ You are damn right. As long as we voice our opinions in appropriate manner, I don't see why we should stfu. Ironic that people demand us to stop the hate but keep using derogatory remarks.
What about adding Korean slots into the WCS? Would that help? For example right now there are 1 slot for China 1 slot for latin america etc. What if we added 4 slots for Korea? Would that be more "international"?
*Oh right and allow third party tournaments to let Koreans compete.
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On April 09 2016 00:30 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 00:25 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 00:08 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
Not really.. I actually think this is a prime example to bring back the topic of Korean discrimination to the table. Just so you're aware, this is a topic which is constantly relevant. It's absolutely abhorrent that Koreans are not allowed to participate in events which used to be open to all. Now Koreans are not allowed to enter these tournaments on the grounds that foreigners need to be protected. It's especially interesting that the foreigners who are being protected are also mediocre in their game play (e.g. the welfare comparison, foreigners do not particularly deserve extra opportunities compared to Koreans) and now apparently some of them cheat. Sorry I'm not going to shut up about it, I want Blizzard to hear what I have to say. I play the game and I watch the game as well as you do. :/ You are damn right. As long as we voice our opinions in appropriate manner, I don't see why we should stfu. Ironic that people demand us to stop the hate but keep using derogatory remarks. What about adding Korean slots into the WCS? Would that help? For example right now there are 1 slot for China 1 slot for latin america etc. What if we added 4 slots for Korea? Would that be more "international"?
Imo the system is a mess as a whole. Patching it even more won't solve it. They should work on something else from scratch, with clear and as few rules as possible.
But I don't think Blizzard needs or would accept any ideas, because they like to do things their way. What I do think we must do is to be clear about what we like and what we don't. If I don't like this Korean segregation from the rest of the world but I don't let Blizzard know, they will keep pushing this foreigner privileges more and more...
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France12762 Posts
Shit that sucks, I admit I thought DnS was getting a freepass somehow, but more like someone else playing for him.
No way I'm gonna watch Guru & Bly tho :x
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On April 09 2016 00:36 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 00:30 argonautdice wrote:On April 09 2016 00:25 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 00:08 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
Not really.. I actually think this is a prime example to bring back the topic of Korean discrimination to the table. Just so you're aware, this is a topic which is constantly relevant. It's absolutely abhorrent that Koreans are not allowed to participate in events which used to be open to all. Now Koreans are not allowed to enter these tournaments on the grounds that foreigners need to be protected. It's especially interesting that the foreigners who are being protected are also mediocre in their game play (e.g. the welfare comparison, foreigners do not particularly deserve extra opportunities compared to Koreans) and now apparently some of them cheat. Sorry I'm not going to shut up about it, I want Blizzard to hear what I have to say. I play the game and I watch the game as well as you do. :/ You are damn right. As long as we voice our opinions in appropriate manner, I don't see why we should stfu. Ironic that people demand us to stop the hate but keep using derogatory remarks. What about adding Korean slots into the WCS? Would that help? For example right now there are 1 slot for China 1 slot for latin america etc. What if we added 4 slots for Korea? Would that be more "international"? Imo the system is a mess as a whole. Patching it even more won't solve it. They should work on something else from scratch, with clear and as few rules as possible. But I don't think Blizzard needs or would accept any ideas, because they like to do things their way. What I do think we must do is to be clear about what we like and what we don't. If I don't like this Korean segregation from the rest of the world but I don't let Blizzard know, they will keep pushing this foreigner privileges more and more...
do you think we are in a kind of conspiracy ?
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It seems really weird that they disqualified them before they could even explain why.
I read through the entire thread and *still* don't understand what is going on or why they were disqualified.
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On April 09 2016 00:36 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 00:30 argonautdice wrote:On April 09 2016 00:25 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 00:08 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
Not really.. I actually think this is a prime example to bring back the topic of Korean discrimination to the table. Just so you're aware, this is a topic which is constantly relevant. It's absolutely abhorrent that Koreans are not allowed to participate in events which used to be open to all. Now Koreans are not allowed to enter these tournaments on the grounds that foreigners need to be protected. It's especially interesting that the foreigners who are being protected are also mediocre in their game play (e.g. the welfare comparison, foreigners do not particularly deserve extra opportunities compared to Koreans) and now apparently some of them cheat. Sorry I'm not going to shut up about it, I want Blizzard to hear what I have to say. I play the game and I watch the game as well as you do. :/ You are damn right. As long as we voice our opinions in appropriate manner, I don't see why we should stfu. Ironic that people demand us to stop the hate but keep using derogatory remarks. What about adding Korean slots into the WCS? Would that help? For example right now there are 1 slot for China 1 slot for latin america etc. What if we added 4 slots for Korea? Would that be more "international"? Imo the system is a mess as a whole. Patching it even more won't solve it. They should work on something else from scratch, with clear and as few rules as possible. But I don't think Blizzard needs or would accept any ideas, because they like to do things their way. What I do think we must do is to be clear about what we like and what we don't. If I don't like this Korean segregation from the rest of the world but I don't let Blizzard know, they will keep pushing this foreigner privileges more and more...
I would be ok with it if there were more cross over, Koreans vs the rest, tournaments. Preferably the biggest ones.
On April 09 2016 00:55 travis wrote:
It seems really weird that they disqualified them before they could even explain why.
I read through the entire thread and *still* don't understand what is going on or why they were disqualified.
Idd, maybe they have chat logs or something but if so, make it public
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Banning players for their passport and/or for being good, terrible planning, messy rules, double-standard applied to cheaters. WCS in good hands, no doubt about it.
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This is getting ridiculous. Bly did it last year and no one bats an eye...MarineLord and DNS do it this time and they got disqualified. Logic 101 by Blizzard. Nice management!
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On April 09 2016 01:04 MalditoKyo wrote:
This is getting ridiculous. Bly did it last year and no one bats an eye...MarineLord and DNS do it this time and they got disqualified. Logic 101 by Blizzard. Nice management!
Is it Blizzard or is it dreamhack though? the only official statement came from DH...
Moreover, as far as we know, case is far from being prooved.
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On April 09 2016 00:57 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 00:36 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 00:30 argonautdice wrote:On April 09 2016 00:25 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 00:08 Incognoto wrote:On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
Not really.. I actually think this is a prime example to bring back the topic of Korean discrimination to the table. Just so you're aware, this is a topic which is constantly relevant. It's absolutely abhorrent that Koreans are not allowed to participate in events which used to be open to all. Now Koreans are not allowed to enter these tournaments on the grounds that foreigners need to be protected. It's especially interesting that the foreigners who are being protected are also mediocre in their game play (e.g. the welfare comparison, foreigners do not particularly deserve extra opportunities compared to Koreans) and now apparently some of them cheat. Sorry I'm not going to shut up about it, I want Blizzard to hear what I have to say. I play the game and I watch the game as well as you do. :/ You are damn right. As long as we voice our opinions in appropriate manner, I don't see why we should stfu. Ironic that people demand us to stop the hate but keep using derogatory remarks. What about adding Korean slots into the WCS? Would that help? For example right now there are 1 slot for China 1 slot for latin america etc. What if we added 4 slots for Korea? Would that be more "international"? Imo the system is a mess as a whole. Patching it even more won't solve it. They should work on something else from scratch, with clear and as few rules as possible. But I don't think Blizzard needs or would accept any ideas, because they like to do things their way. What I do think we must do is to be clear about what we like and what we don't. If I don't like this Korean segregation from the rest of the world but I don't let Blizzard know, they will keep pushing this foreigner privileges more and more... I would be ok with it if there were more cross over, Koreans vs the rest, tournaments. Preferably the biggest ones.
Given the current state of things, I too think this would be the best thing to do for the rest of the year.
On April 09 2016 00:46 Makro wrote:
do you think we are in a kind of conspiracy ?
It seems I'm missing the joke here Let me guess... is it related to politics??
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I would imagine that it is true, because marinelord would have protested somewhere by now if it wasn't. But it's still really poor form to remove them without showing why.
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Umm..... what happened to legit gamers lol..... new schoolers these days -_-
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lol they actually use ladder placement as a way to qualify?
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On April 09 2016 01:18 HugoBallzak wrote:
lol they actually use ladder placement as a way to qualify?
The top 16 of ladder of EU and NA qualify for two 16-man challenger tournaments; the top 2 of challenger qualify for the actually tournament. This only takes up 4 out of the 32 available spots of the main tourney, so I think it's a pretty good idea.
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This is unfair! So many people criticize the Welfare System in this thread and only one person is banned! While whenever I criticize WCS, I am banned! Where is the justice???
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On April 09 2016 01:26 Diabolique wrote:
This is unfair! So many people criticize the Welfare System in this thread and only one person is banned! While whenever I criticize WCS, I am banned! Where is the justice???
Well now is your chance! Just repeat what deacon or boxerfred or Incognoto have been saying: e.g. "WCS = Welfare Circus Series", "I'm glad to see this welfare joke is failing", or "I will not stop loudly complaining until Blizzard hears me"
oh, also "Blizzard is racist and discriminatory against Koreans"
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On April 09 2016 01:36 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 01:26 Diabolique wrote:
This is unfair! So many people criticize the Welfare System in this thread and only one person is banned! While whenever I criticize WCS, I am banned! Where is the justice??? Well now is your chance! Just repeat what deacon or Incognoto have been saying: e.g. "WCS = Welfare Circus Series", "I'm glad to see this welfare joke is failing", or "I will not stop loudly complaining until Blizzard hears me"
Are u crazy? In the moment, I would write the word "Circus" in my post, some "clowns" would ban me for a month!
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On April 09 2016 01:38 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 01:36 argonautdice wrote:On April 09 2016 01:26 Diabolique wrote:
This is unfair! So many people criticize the Welfare System in this thread and only one person is banned! While whenever I criticize WCS, I am banned! Where is the justice??? Well now is your chance! Just repeat what deacon or Incognoto have been saying: e.g. "WCS = Welfare Circus Series", "I'm glad to see this welfare joke is failing", or "I will not stop loudly complaining until Blizzard hears me" Are u crazy? In the moment, I would write the rod "Circus" in my post, some "clowns" would ban me for a month! :-)
dang that's tough, maybe you should use the red nose clownface more like they've been using to imply jest and sarcasm
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On April 09 2016 01:39 argonautdice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 01:38 Diabolique wrote:On April 09 2016 01:36 argonautdice wrote:On April 09 2016 01:26 Diabolique wrote:
This is unfair! So many people criticize the Welfare System in this thread and only one person is banned! While whenever I criticize WCS, I am banned! Where is the justice??? Well now is your chance! Just repeat what deacon or Incognoto have been saying: e.g. "WCS = Welfare Circus Series", "I'm glad to see this welfare joke is failing", or "I will not stop loudly complaining until Blizzard hears me" Are u crazy? In the moment, I would write the rod "Circus" in my post, some "clowns" would ban me for a month! :-) dang that's tough, maybe you should use the red nose clownface more like they've been using to imply jest and sarcasm
Good idea, I will find out how and put it back there :-)
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Hopefully this site has damn good articles. Because between KoreanFanboys who cant think out of the box and ForeignFanboys, who can't accept the fact that players cheated. This a sad community.
Still hope one day people will try to have global vision for SC2... Not only for their entertainement...
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On April 09 2016 01:04 MalditoKyo wrote:
This is getting ridiculous. Bly did it last year and no one bats an eye...MarineLord and DNS do it this time and they got disqualified. Logic 101 by Blizzard. Nice management!
According to this thread, bly just removed himself from a specific spot to have a better opponent. It probably hasn't changed anything regarding the top 16 players to be qualified.
On the other hand, DNS ? He gets a free 400$ because of a freelose from a fellow friend ? It's clearly not the same degree of violation, and therefore it's probably justified.
Not to mention blizzard probably has more informations about those throwing games than we do. I'd like to think they don't want to show us how they did it in order to prevent any future rigged ladder's matches.
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Wait a minute.
Does MarineLorD still have the opportunity of 2016 WCS Spring Circuit Championship through France National Qualifier?
Could FireCake (3rd place) replace him?
During 2014 WCS Season 3,  Shana replaced iAsonu due to the same reason and got 17th to 24th through the victory against Crank and Illusion.
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That is so stupid to do such a thing. But DH must show proof/strong hint of that happening.
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Marinelord trying to be the good guy, in a sense, and help out a fellow national get a spot into Challenger by exploiting the system.
I just hope Marinelord doesn't lose his French National spot and is able to play and win the entire thing and look smugly upon Blizzard 
Also, if Snute, Nerchio, and Elazer are already qualified for Spring Championship, why are they playing in Challenger? Is it for money? Practice? Because they can?
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On April 09 2016 01:51 thickertom wrote:Wait a minute. Does MarineLorD still have the opportunity of 2016 WCS Spring Circuit Championship through France National Qualifier? Could FireCake (3rd place) replace him? During 2014 WCS Season 3, Shana replaced iAsonu due to the same reason and got 17th to 24th through the victory against Crank and Illusion.
ML is already qualified, he didn't care about this ladder tournament.
Thing is, if the case is proven, I don't see how he wouldn't be banned (and have his career ended cause afaik he'll back to school in september...)
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On April 09 2016 01:43 SinO[Ob] wrote:
Hopefully this site has damn good articles. Because between KoreanFanboys who cant think out of the box and ForeignFanboys, who can't accept the fact that players cheated. This a sad community.
Still hope one day people will try to have global vision for SC2... Not only for their entertainement...
Well I don't know why this thread derailed into a Korea vs Europe troll war, but personally I'm huge fan of Korean progaming and I don't accept ML cheated yet, there is too many holes in the story. When (if) we hear more about this I may change my mind, though.
So all in all, I don't find your comment very relevant.
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On April 09 2016 00:55 travis wrote:
It seems really weird that they disqualified them before they could even explain why.
I read through the entire thread and *still* don't understand what is going on or why they were disqualified.
It's pretty simple from an investigative point of view. Blizzard won't release these details but i'll explain it in Lehman's terms.
The account of MarineLord plays on computer X with MAC address X (identification of your computer).
DnS plays on computer Y with MAC address Y.
MarineLord logs off on computer X and logs in on a smurf account with the same computer.
DnS matches that account and wins points (the games itself are unknown variables).
They may have communicated with each other on their accounts, which Blizzard would be able to recover from logs. (this would be immediate 100% proof, IF they have said anything which would prove that).
DnS gets top 16 in the last minutes due to this transaction in wins.
Marinelords smurf account hasn't played at all this season, yet matched up with DnS either way.
Blizzard is able to pull winrates, other chatlogs from main-accounts(this may be their "further investigation"), game-history and other data like "avarage APM" or their usual build orders etc, which could indicate a false game (this is speculation).
It is highly probably that Blizzard was able to conclude certain proof from a wide range of data and could immediately take a decision without having to consult the players.
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On April 09 2016 01:51 thickertom wrote:Wait a minute. Does MarineLorD still have the opportunity of 2016 WCS Spring Circuit Championship through France National Qualifier? Could FireCake (3rd place) replace him? During 2014 WCS Season 3, Shana replaced iAsonu due to the same reason and got 17th to 24th through the victory against Crank and Illusion.
we don't know yet
the case will evolve.
For now, they were only banned from challenger, not from the main event, in which MLord already qualified.
Wait and see.
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wow that is a really bad story. I loved this ladder rush the last week so much...
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The moment you are given a tournament you have a chance to win you start match fixing... 
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On April 09 2016 02:30 WonnaPlay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 00:55 travis wrote:
It seems really weird that they disqualified them before they could even explain why.
I read through the entire thread and *still* don't understand what is going on or why they were disqualified. It's pretty simple from an investigative point of view. Blizzard won't release these details but i'll explain it in Lehman's terms. The account of MarineLord plays on computer X with MAC address X (identification of your computer). DnS plays on computer Y with MAC address Y. MarineLord logs off on computer X and logs in on a smurf account with the same computer. DnS matches that account and wins points (the games itself are unknown variables). They may have communicated with each other on their accounts, which Blizzard would be able to recover from logs. (this would be immediate 100% proof, IF they have said anything which would prove that). DnS gets top 16 in the last minutes due to this transaction in wins. Marinelords smurf account hasn't played at all this season, yet matched up with DnS either way. Blizzard is able to pull winrates, other chatlogs from main-accounts(this may be their "further investigation"), game-history and other data like "avarage APM" or their usual build orders etc, which could indicate a false game (this is speculation). It is highly probably that Blizzard was able to conclude certain proof from a wide range of data and could immediately take a decision without having to consult the players.
This is what I am thinking too. In my +10 years of playing Blizzard games ive seen them do many stupid/annoying moves. But I got a feeling there is much more 'proof' behind this decision they have announced. They might even have an automated system that looks at this data (ip, mac, purchased of cd-key, system id, game history,etc, etc) so these accounts can be auto flagged.
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DnS gets top 16 in the last minutes due to this transaction in wins.
@Wonnaplay If it's the case then it s cheating, but most of your other arguments are not real ones
first of all they probably talk about this on skype or smthing, maybe they did the mistake to talk about it during the game but.. would they really do so ?
Marinelords smurf account hasn't played at all this season, yet matched up with DnS either way.
Don't you see any other reason why he took a smurf after securing top 16 on his main account ? that argument make no sense
But anyway I know french pro scene and this is kind of happening everytime, and sometimes it s obvious
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When Blizzard takes action like this, there's usually a decent amount of evidence, so the only thing to say at a time like this is "Good GOD Marinelord, how could you he THIS stupid?"
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Hey guys, I haven't followed this much, but what actually happened in the context of win-trading, did they win-trade for ladder points, or..?
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On April 09 2016 03:25 IntoTheheart wrote:
Hey guys, I haven't followed this much, but what actually happened in the context of win-trading, did they win-trade for ladder points, or..?
for ladder points so they can have a spot in the top16 and being invited in the event
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Can someone explain how in the world they could possibly know win trading was definitely going on between these 2 guys?
I don't see how it's possible to be sure about this...
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Good thing I was not planning on watching WCS.
I will stick to my GSL and PL
go TY go!
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On April 09 2016 05:13 Ensiferum8 wrote:
Good thing I was not planning on watching WCS.
I will stick to my GSL and PL
go TY go!
Your opinion is very valuable to us. Thanks for sharing !
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Yet another shameful case of tournament organizers trying to do more than just organizing.
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I don't get how this win-trading thing works... If they trade win they also trade losses so their points shouldn't go up?
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On April 09 2016 04:48 DuckloadBlackra wrote:
Can someone explain how in the world they could possibly know win trading was definitely going on between these 2 guys?
I don't see how it's possible to be sure about this...
Weren't you convinced by all the evidence Blizzard made public?
+ Show Spoiler +what a sad world we live in where transparency is frowned upon ;(
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On April 09 2016 06:18 DonDomingo wrote:
Yet another shameful case of tournament organizers trying to do more than just organizing.
Enforcing the rules and preventing cheating is shameful?
On April 09 2016 06:19 Hurricaned wrote:
I don't get how this win-trading thing works... If they trade win they also trade losses so their points shouldn't go up?
Allegedly MarineLorD was losing games intentionally on one of his smurfs to gift points to DnS so that he'd make it to the top8.
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On April 09 2016 06:28 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 06:18 DonDomingo wrote:
Yet another shameful case of tournament organizers trying to do more than just organizing. Enforcing the rules and preventing cheating is shameful? Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 06:19 Hurricaned wrote:
I don't get how this win-trading thing works... If they trade win they also trade losses so their points shouldn't go up? Allegedly MarineLorD was losing games intentionally on one of his smurfs to gift points to DnS so that he'd make it to the top8.
"cheating" hahahahahahhahaha
guess we see things differently
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On April 08 2016 23:27 Incognoto wrote:
This is why we need kespa to take over the foreign scene
though i'm not gonna lie, the first thought that went through my head when reading the thread title is "marinelord has korean origins?"
edit:
ps deacon, i disagreed with you in the kespa thread but i'm agreeing with you right now. wcs welfare is a fucking joke with joke players who don't know what it means to compete
"win-trading" is also just a pretty word for match-fixing btw
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On April 09 2016 06:19 Hurricaned wrote:
I don't get how this win-trading thing works... If they trade win they also trade losses so their points shouldn't go up?
Against a favored opponent you get more points if you win than you'll end up losing if they beat you. For example, if MLorD and DnS agree that DnS gets 2 wins and MLorD gets 1 on his barcode to make it look realistic, DnS gets a net positive in points. In this case that positive would have been enough to make a difference in the race for top 16.
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Wow, im surprised by the levels of salt.
If punishing people that cheat, fixing an impunity issue in the system is called "inconsistency" then i hope our governments become more inconsistent.
I do feel bad for MarineLorD, that had no bad intentions (if he gave the win/points and took nothing in return), but it must be punished, rules are rules and they are there for a reason. Nobody questioned when the rule to punish win trading was implemented, its only a problem when it hits you or someone you like.
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On April 09 2016 06:31 DonDomingo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 06:28 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On April 09 2016 06:18 DonDomingo wrote:
Yet another shameful case of tournament organizers trying to do more than just organizing. Enforcing the rules and preventing cheating is shameful? On April 09 2016 06:19 Hurricaned wrote:
I don't get how this win-trading thing works... If they trade win they also trade losses so their points shouldn't go up? Allegedly MarineLorD was losing games intentionally on one of his smurfs to gift points to DnS so that he'd make it to the top8. "cheating" hahahahahahhahaha guess we see things differently
Gifting someone ladder points in this tournament qualification process is unfair competition and thus cheating. Losing on purpose and wintrading are generally punished in online games. So I'm pretty sure most people don't agree with you. And even if they did, them's the rules.
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Canada11355 Posts
Just another day in modern e-sports
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On April 09 2016 06:20 DonDomingo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 04:48 DuckloadBlackra wrote:
Can someone explain how in the world they could possibly know win trading was definitely going on between these 2 guys?
I don't see how it's possible to be sure about this... Weren't you convinced by all the evidence Blizzard made public? + Show Spoiler +what a sad world we live in where transparency is frowned upon ;(
What evidence? I haven't seen any... the whole thread is full of people just accepting it as truth instantly and reacting accordingly (not saying there isn't any, but where the heck is it? and how do you prove this?)
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On April 09 2016 06:53 DuckloadBlackra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 06:20 DonDomingo wrote:On April 09 2016 04:48 DuckloadBlackra wrote:
Can someone explain how in the world they could possibly know win trading was definitely going on between these 2 guys?
I don't see how it's possible to be sure about this... Weren't you convinced by all the evidence Blizzard made public? + Show Spoiler +what a sad world we live in where transparency is frowned upon ;( What evidence? I haven't seen any... the whole thread is full of people just accepting it as truth instantly and reacting accordingly (not saying there isn't any, but where the heck is it? and how do you prove this?)
That was my joke. Blizzard hasnt released any evidence because they dont like transparency.
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On April 08 2016 22:48 Seeker wrote:
If you look at the screen from a distance and from an angle, UTHERMAL VS DAYSHI ends up kind of looking like: UTHERMAL VS DAY9!!!
There, there.
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On April 09 2016 05:13 Ensiferum8 wrote:
Good thing I was not planning on watching WCS.
I will stick to my GSL and PL
go TY go!
If all you toxic whiners would actually keep to your words when you say things like this, the WCS tournament threads might actually be worth reading again.
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So they get punished before the investigation is complete? I thought Blizzard was from the US, not from some third-world country.
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On April 09 2016 06:55 DonDomingo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 06:53 DuckloadBlackra wrote:On April 09 2016 06:20 DonDomingo wrote:On April 09 2016 04:48 DuckloadBlackra wrote:
Can someone explain how in the world they could possibly know win trading was definitely going on between these 2 guys?
I don't see how it's possible to be sure about this... Weren't you convinced by all the evidence Blizzard made public? + Show Spoiler +what a sad world we live in where transparency is frowned upon ;( What evidence? I haven't seen any... the whole thread is full of people just accepting it as truth instantly and reacting accordingly (not saying there isn't any, but where the heck is it? and how do you prove this?) That was my joke. Blizzard hasnt released any evidence because they dont like transparency.
Haha okay
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view this thread in /all
search "france"
FRANCE IS NOT PLEASED BLIZZARD
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Mute City2363 Posts
The really weird thing that I don't get is that people are trying to justify it by saying Bly got away with it last time round. You can't just say 'oh that's unfair, let's let them off this time as well'. It should've been punished last time, and assuming that their assumptions are right, it should be punished this time
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On April 09 2016 07:46 OtherWorld wrote:
So they get punished before the investigation is complete? I thought Blizzard was from the US, not from some third-world country.
What third world countries do you speak of?
In mine, people simply don't get punished, ever...
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On April 09 2016 08:13 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
The really weird thing that I don't get is that people are trying to justify it by saying Bly got away with it last time round. You can't just say 'oh that's unfair, let's let them off this time as well'. It should've been punished last time, and assuming that their assumptions are right, it should be punished this time
True, and moreover what Bly supposedly did - it's not proven yet - is throwing games to change his seed, and even it's not classy in any way, I don't see why anyone should be banned for this (it happens all the time in real sports and it's not even a good strategy in most case)
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On April 09 2016 07:06 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 05:13 Ensiferum8 wrote:
Good thing I was not planning on watching WCS.
I will stick to my GSL and PL
go TY go! If all you toxic whiners would actually keep to your words when you say things like this, the WCS tournament threads might actually be worth reading again.
And if Blizzard ended the stupid region lock we wouldn't have to complain. I don't see that happening either.
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Mute City2363 Posts
On April 09 2016 08:38 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 08:13 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
The really weird thing that I don't get is that people are trying to justify it by saying Bly got away with it last time round. You can't just say 'oh that's unfair, let's let them off this time as well'. It should've been punished last time, and assuming that their assumptions are right, it should be punished this time True, and moreover what Bly supposedly did - it's not proven yet - is throwing games to change his seed, and even it's not classy in any way, I don't see why anyone should be banned for this (it happens all the time in real sports and it's not even a good strategy in most case)
While I think I agree in that specific case, it's still a bit murky. What if he got matched against someone who was #17 at the time, who got boosted into the top 16 because of that game? That would turn it into this situation, even if it wasn't a direct agreement between the two, and could even punish the #17 player for something he knew nothing about.
It's too complicated a situation I think to say 'this type of throwing is OK, this type isn't', and it'll just lead to more situations like this in the future where the line is a bit unclear. Best to just try to ban everything I think
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On April 09 2016 06:52 Fecalfeast wrote:Just another day in modern e-sports
Win trading was already à thing back in tsl2
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On April 09 2016 08:43 thecrazymunchkin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 08:38 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 09 2016 08:13 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
The really weird thing that I don't get is that people are trying to justify it by saying Bly got away with it last time round. You can't just say 'oh that's unfair, let's let them off this time as well'. It should've been punished last time, and assuming that their assumptions are right, it should be punished this time True, and moreover what Bly supposedly did - it's not proven yet - is throwing games to change his seed, and even it's not classy in any way, I don't see why anyone should be banned for this (it happens all the time in real sports and it's not even a good strategy in most case) While I think I agree in that specific case, it's still a bit murky. What if he got matched against someone who was #17 at the time, who got boosted into the top 16 because of that game? That would turn it into this situation, even if it wasn't a direct agreement between the two, and could even punish the #17 player for something he knew nothing about. It's too complicated a situation I think to say 'this type of throwing is OK, this type isn't', and it'll just lead to more situations like this in the future where the line is a bit unclear. Best to just try to ban everything I think
Would be a shame to ban someone that is not breaking any rules though, wouldn't it?
For the record, ML and DnS case clearly is against the rules as stated in the rule book :
losing a game or match with another player in order to advance one or the other’s rank
What Bly may have do last season may fall under this rule :
Players must compete to the best of their ability at all times. Any form of cheating will not be
tolerated. All players are prohibited from influencing or manipulating a WCS game or match so that the outcome is determined by anything other than its merits.
but again, having someone banned for this would be kind of extreme imho, but that's prolly just me...
I think the main issue is that between Bly(18th) and Happy(8th) there was 11 players within 10 points (1298 to 1308) That's where work as to be done so that the order is not so easily influenced, cause what we're talking about is a mere 2-1 between DnS and ML's barcode for a 31 ladder points benefit...
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My guess is that Blizzard doesn't want to release their evidence because they don't want to advertise the ways in which they can (and possibly cannot) catch someone cheating. They might also not feel the need to release the nitty gritty details because they don't think it's necessary to drag MarineLorD and DnS through the mud.
I don't think it's a faulty accusation because to my knowledge MarineLorD and DnS haven't even tried denying it (correct me if I'm wrong though!)
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On April 08 2016 23:23 boxerfred wrote:
StarCraft 2016: Best players banned from competing internationally, formerly irrelevant players cheat the fuck out of the system. Good thing Dreamhack features other games.
Sad truth.
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On April 09 2016 07:06 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 05:13 Ensiferum8 wrote:
Good thing I was not planning on watching WCS.
I will stick to my GSL and PL
go TY go! If all you toxic whiners would actually keep to your words when you say things like this, the WCS tournament threads might actually be worth reading again. I said i would not watch, not stop posting. Sorry if its too hard for you to understand
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I saw someone show that Bunny game that lasted 20 seconds right before the cutoff for top 16. No mention of that?? Seems rather dodgy.
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Here's a solution, dismiss the ladder ranking system and go back to old fashion open brackets for these types of qualifying matches. You can't cheat in a bracket system (unless your opponent just really doesnt want to qualify).
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just permban them, but i guess Blizzard are too pussy to actually do anything like that.
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oh wow, my heroes were cheating. What a heartbreak.
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On April 09 2016 07:06 Thax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 05:13 Ensiferum8 wrote:
Good thing I was not planning on watching WCS.
I will stick to my GSL and PL
go TY go! If all you toxic whiners would actually keep to your words when you say things like this, the WCS tournament threads might actually be worth reading again.
Lol
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On April 09 2016 11:40 Phredxor wrote:
I saw someone show that Bunny game that lasted 20 seconds right before the cutoff for top 16. No mention of that?? Seems rather dodgy.
Bunny is from TL so it could have any suspicious shits around him that it will still be Ok for him. But without any shown evidences, French players can be disqualified, I am not victimizing but clearly, justice is not the same for everyone in Starcraft II and this is very annoying.
What a fucking disgrace to humiliate french community like this. I am not gonna watch this shitty tournament before they give some proofs and I hope that french fans will boycott it too.
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Australia18228 Posts
Decided to make a post to clean up some of the misunderstandings I saw on reddit regarding me vs Shadown close to the end of the ladder tournament: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/4dwe2l/marinelord_and_dns_are_removed_from_wcs/d1v1e37First off, I want to explain some of the chaos that happened close to midnight. 23:45: The points were insanely close at this time, a single win or loss would be the difference maker for a lot of players. Now at this point the games got very weird. If you're losing a game there's no reason for you to leave, you can hide buildings or turtle on 1 base to drag things out past midnight. Regardless, a lot of players decided to try and get those last few points. It's true that I got a default win in my match against Shadown, but it wasn't planned nor did I ask him to leave the game. I guess he just thought it would be fun to mess with the standings. After the game he typed "Just because i like you" in chat. Of course this isn't a legit win on my side, but i wasn't even given the chance to play the game. Close to midnight a lot of strange things are bound to happen in a tournament like this. The morning after, I talked to blizzard about it and sent them the rep of my game vs Shadown. They concluded it wasn't my fault, so I was allowed to play. Hopefully this clears up the confusion about this match, thank you for reading
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On April 09 2016 18:26 Inflicted wrote:https://twitter.com/Liquid_Bunny/status/718717736625532928Show nested quote +Decided to make a post to clean up some of the misunderstandings I saw on reddit regarding me vs Shadown close to the end of the ladder tournament: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/4dwe2l/marinelord_and_dns_are_removed_from_wcs/d1v1e37First off, I want to explain some of the chaos that happened close to midnight. 23:45: The points were insanely close at this time, a single win or loss would be the difference maker for a lot of players. Now at this point the games got very weird. If you're losing a game there's no reason for you to leave, you can hide buildings or turtle on 1 base to drag things out past midnight. Regardless, a lot of players decided to try and get those last few points. It's true that I got a default win in my match against Shadown, but it wasn't planned nor did I ask him to leave the game. I guess he just thought it would be fun to mess with the standings. After the game he typed "Just because i like you" in chat. Of course this isn't a legit win on my side, but i wasn't even given the chance to play the game. Close to midnight a lot of strange things are bound to happen in a tournament like this. The morning after, I talked to blizzard about it and sent them the rep of my game vs Shadown. They concluded it wasn't my fault, so I was allowed to play. Hopefully this clears up the confusion about this match, thank you for reading
Even IF it is what really happened, this is still totally unfair for all the others players.
But I guess some can get free pass and be bordeline... Even if Bunny is not responsible (and I still have some doubts), he should be DQ. This is about fair win for everybody, not freewin but as I said in my previous post, some can get free pass.
Anyway, I am still wraiting for the proofs for the case of DNs and Mlord.
Since 2010; I saw a lot of stupid drama in SC2 but from my pov, this is the worst.
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On April 09 2016 01:04 MalditoKyo wrote:
This is getting ridiculous. Bly did it last year and no one bats an eye...MarineLord and DNS do it this time and they got disqualified. Logic 101 by Blizzard. Nice management!
i don't understand this logic - because they did wrong in the past means they should do wrong in the present/future?
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On April 09 2016 18:53 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 18:26 Inflicted wrote:https://twitter.com/Liquid_Bunny/status/718717736625532928Decided to make a post to clean up some of the misunderstandings I saw on reddit regarding me vs Shadown close to the end of the ladder tournament: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/4dwe2l/marinelord_and_dns_are_removed_from_wcs/d1v1e37First off, I want to explain some of the chaos that happened close to midnight. 23:45: The points were insanely close at this time, a single win or loss would be the difference maker for a lot of players. Now at this point the games got very weird. If you're losing a game there's no reason for you to leave, you can hide buildings or turtle on 1 base to drag things out past midnight. Regardless, a lot of players decided to try and get those last few points. It's true that I got a default win in my match against Shadown, but it wasn't planned nor did I ask him to leave the game. I guess he just thought it would be fun to mess with the standings. After the game he typed "Just because i like you" in chat. Of course this isn't a legit win on my side, but i wasn't even given the chance to play the game. Close to midnight a lot of strange things are bound to happen in a tournament like this. The morning after, I talked to blizzard about it and sent them the rep of my game vs Shadown. They concluded it wasn't my fault, so I was allowed to play. Hopefully this clears up the confusion about this match, thank you for reading Even IF it is what really happened, this is still totally unfair for all the others players. But I guess some can get free pass and be bordeline... Even if Bunny is not responsible (and I still have some doubts), he should be DQ. This is about fair win for everybody, not freewin but as I said in my previous post, some can get free pass. Anyway, I am still wraiting for the proofs for the case of DNs and Mlord. Since 2010; I saw a lot of stupid drama in SC2 but from my pov, this is the worst.
this just gives way to more stupid stuff like the reverse - i dont like him, i am gonna give him a freewin to get him DQ.
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"because i like you" ... = freewin
I guess Marinelord did what he did (i'd still like transparency on the proofs) it is because he likes DnS
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Hello amigas!
What is a win-trade?
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On April 09 2016 20:21 _Croc wrote:
Hello amigas!
What is a win-trade?
Match fixing.
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On April 09 2016 20:21 _Croc wrote:
Hello amigas!
What is a win-trade?
Exactly what the words mean. Trading wins for wins. I let you win some, you let me win some. Basically, losing on purpose to change ladder rankings.
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Only a couple people seem to care that no proof has been provided? You're just going to blindly accept it as truth?
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On April 09 2016 08:13 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
The really weird thing that I don't get is that people are trying to justify it by saying Bly got away with it last time round. You can't just say 'oh that's unfair, let's let them off this time as well'. It should've been punished last time, and assuming that their assumptions are right, it should be punished this time
I don't think it is justifying Mlord and DnS cheating to say that Bly got away with a variant of that form of cheating last time. And who knows what the others have done without Blizzard noticing? There is a double standard applied. It is even more infuriating when the one benefiting from the standing correction this time is Bly himself. There is enough ambiguity in all iterations of rulebook to have done something yet they did not. The ladder qualification system is already flawed enough and Blizzard seems to struggle with a consistent ruling.
And there is the Bunny case: should he be punished for it like DnS? If Blizzard do not want to do things half-assedly they should ban everyone involved in any kind of discovered arrangement for this season. I am pretty sure they won't.
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Drama in WCS (which abbrev. would it be kekekek). Who really cares.... Isn't this what we signed up for with this 'improved' system?
Though, is there proof. It seems like the are DQ's on a suspision, which is kinda random.
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On April 09 2016 18:53 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 18:26 Inflicted wrote:https://twitter.com/Liquid_Bunny/status/718717736625532928Decided to make a post to clean up some of the misunderstandings I saw on reddit regarding me vs Shadown close to the end of the ladder tournament: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/4dwe2l/marinelord_and_dns_are_removed_from_wcs/d1v1e37First off, I want to explain some of the chaos that happened close to midnight. 23:45: The points were insanely close at this time, a single win or loss would be the difference maker for a lot of players. Now at this point the games got very weird. If you're losing a game there's no reason for you to leave, you can hide buildings or turtle on 1 base to drag things out past midnight. Regardless, a lot of players decided to try and get those last few points. It's true that I got a default win in my match against Shadown, but it wasn't planned nor did I ask him to leave the game. I guess he just thought it would be fun to mess with the standings. After the game he typed "Just because i like you" in chat. Of course this isn't a legit win on my side, but i wasn't even given the chance to play the game. Close to midnight a lot of strange things are bound to happen in a tournament like this. The morning after, I talked to blizzard about it and sent them the rep of my game vs Shadown. They concluded it wasn't my fault, so I was allowed to play. Hopefully this clears up the confusion about this match, thank you for reading Even IF it is what really happened, this is still totally unfair for all the others players. But I guess some can get free pass and be bordeline... Even if Bunny is not responsible (and I still have some doubts), he should be DQ. This is about fair win for everybody, not freewin but as I said in my previous post, some can get free pass. Anyway, I am still wraiting for the proofs for the case of DNs and Mlord. Since 2010; I saw a lot of stupid drama in SC2 but from my pov, this is the worst.
Exactly. Either never allow it, or allow it. Don't make exceptions based on arbitraty reasoning.
WCS tho. Refer to the rulebook kekeke
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Funny how all the frenchies get up in arms trying to either say Mlord wasn't cheating or that Bly or Bunny were, when it's clear to anyone with a brain the difference:
Mlord clearly lost on purpose to get DnS into the tournament, when he would've been out of it otherwise; Bly was already in the tourney, his loss would't gift anyone else entry, Bunny's win had nothing to do with him, he was gifted a win that, again, changed nothing since he was already qualified and Shadown wasn't anyway.
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On April 09 2016 18:53 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 18:26 Inflicted wrote:https://twitter.com/Liquid_Bunny/status/718717736625532928Decided to make a post to clean up some of the misunderstandings I saw on reddit regarding me vs Shadown close to the end of the ladder tournament: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/4dwe2l/marinelord_and_dns_are_removed_from_wcs/d1v1e37First off, I want to explain some of the chaos that happened close to midnight. 23:45: The points were insanely close at this time, a single win or loss would be the difference maker for a lot of players. Now at this point the games got very weird. If you're losing a game there's no reason for you to leave, you can hide buildings or turtle on 1 base to drag things out past midnight. Regardless, a lot of players decided to try and get those last few points. It's true that I got a default win in my match against Shadown, but it wasn't planned nor did I ask him to leave the game. I guess he just thought it would be fun to mess with the standings. After the game he typed "Just because i like you" in chat. Of course this isn't a legit win on my side, but i wasn't even given the chance to play the game. Close to midnight a lot of strange things are bound to happen in a tournament like this. The morning after, I talked to blizzard about it and sent them the rep of my game vs Shadown. They concluded it wasn't my fault, so I was allowed to play. Hopefully this clears up the confusion about this match, thank you for reading Even IF it is what really happened, this is still totally unfair for all the others players. But I guess some can get free pass and be bordeline... Even if Bunny is not responsible (and I still have some doubts), he should be DQ. This is about fair win for everybody, not freewin but as I said in my previous post, some can get free pass. Anyway, I am still wraiting for the proofs for the case of DNs and Mlord. Since 2010; I saw a lot of stupid drama in SC2 but from my pov, this is the worst.
He shouldn't be disqualified for the sake of that free win. His points should be deducted if he didn't or wasn't going to win that game. Then, see what rankings are in top16.
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On April 09 2016 21:13 DuckloadBlackra wrote:
Only a couple people seem to care that no proof has been provided? You're just going to blindly accept it as truth?
I agree with you. That's very disturbing behavior from Blizzard.
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On April 09 2016 21:34 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Funny how all the frenchies get up in arms trying to either say Mlord wasn't cheating or that Bly or Bunny were, when it's clear to anyone with a brain the difference:
Mlord clearly lost on purpose to get DnS into the tournament, when he would've been out of it otherwise; Bly was already in the tourney, his loss would't gift anyone else entry, Bunny's win had nothing to do with him, he was gifted a win that, again, changed nothing since he was already qualified and Shadown wasn't anyway.
I am french. Mlord was cheating. It's not clear to me that you have a brain.
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Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. ..
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France12762 Posts
On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. ..
I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled.
Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault.
Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like?
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I feel like by now either MLord or DnS would have said something if Blizzard was being unfair to them.
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On April 09 2016 21:34 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Funny how all the frenchies get up in arms trying to either say Mlord wasn't cheating or that Bly or Bunny were, when it's clear to anyone with a brain the difference:
Mlord clearly lost on purpose to get DnS into the tournament, when he would've been out of it otherwise; Bly was already in the tourney, his loss would't gift anyone else entry, Bunny's win had nothing to do with him, he was gifted a win that, again, changed nothing since he was already qualified and Shadown wasn't anyway.
Mlord was cheating. Bly was cheating. DnS was cheating, Bunny at best benefited from free wins which is against the spirit of fairness in rulebook. Only Mlord and DnS are punished currently. I'd be angry regardless of who it is or which country I belong to. I don't care about the nationality of players, I'd rather watch Koreans most of the time and the few foreign players I care about are not French (we have kinda good players I guess but damn are their personnality shitty).
Of course these actions always change something. Why would they do it in the first place then? Mlord allowed DnS to be in the top, Bly manipulated the seed/bracket, and why is Bunny playing at that time on ladder when he is already qualified and knows that there could be a lot of shady stuff happening? Not that I believe that Bunny did anything wrong, I just find it a terrible idea to be playing ranked at that time. And as he said there could be a lot of stuff happening (like dragging out a game until midnight) which are very much against the spirit of fairness that are left unpunished because the rules are a trainwreck. Why does it look like the game history of Shadown, Bunny, and let's be fair all the players currently qualified won't be checked to see if there are other attempt at manipulating the results? So many questions that are oddly left unanswered by Blizzard.
You are the only one here that does not seem to use his brain. And yeah I'm still waiting for evidence from Blizzard, I am all saying that with the hope that they do have something.
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On April 09 2016 22:21 Homunculus159 wrote:
I feel like by now either MLord or DnS would have said something if Blizzard was being unfair to them.
Or they've been told to shut up until further investigation, so they cannot discredit Blizzard. There's undoubtedly something of that sense in the special snowflake rulebook.
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On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. ..
If they're going to do double-standards justice, at least they should do it with transparency
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On April 09 2016 22:39 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:21 Homunculus159 wrote:
I feel like by now either MLord or DnS would have said something if Blizzard was being unfair to them. Or they've been told to shut up until further investigation, so they cannot discredit Blizzard. There's undoubtedly something of that sense in the special snowflake rulebook.
Yeah.
I know we're all about twitter and instant social media/forums update, but that's good for meaningless events of everyday life, when it comes to real stuff, such as risking to have your career abruptly ended, you just shut the fuck up and deal with the relevant people only.
The last thing you wanna do is to start answering on fan forums.
When ML, DnS and there team will talk, if they do, it'll mean case is closed and all important decisions are already taken.
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On April 09 2016 00:14 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:58 Ppjack wrote:
Hey foreigners bashers and korean weaboo, could you go to another thread spread your hate and discuss about the topic?
I'd like to know, exactly, what is suspicious in these marinelord / dns games, plus why bly did not get dq'ed last time and what about the 20sec bunny game 4minutes before the finish.
Transparency, explanations, and equality of treatment is all i ask.
And that the little princesses of korean scene spit their venom elsewhere, you are neither relevant neither interesting.
"Equality of treatment" while blaming "foreigner bashers", really?
I rarely agree with you, but this made me giggle
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On April 09 2016 22:46 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. If they're going to do double-standards justice, at least they should do it with transparency
Wouldn't it make more sense that double-standards justice lacks transparency?
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I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded
Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this.
I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen.
Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation?
A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional.
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On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional.
Words of truth and wisdom.
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On April 09 2016 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Words of truth and wisdom.
I agree
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On April 09 2016 23:08 WhosQuany wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Words of truth and wisdom. I agree
And I as well.
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 MajOr is being investigated too, and has now been disqualified from Copa America
Blizzard eSports LatAm
Dear fans of StarCraft and Copa America, we regret to inform you that as part of an ongoing investigation by Blizzard on cases of match-fixing which affected WCS Europe, has identified the Latin American Juan "major" Tena as one of the players involved .
The player has been suspended this season's Copa America which classifies the WCS Circuit Spring Championship that will be played during Dreamhack ZOWIE Tours Open in May.
Because of this, the final key to this season's Copa America has been changed, and the best position will be taken by Tunico (3rd Place Group D).
At the moment this punishment only applies to this season's Copa America, however malicious intervention is a serious offense results so that may have major consequences.
We will keep our community informed about the progress of the investigation.
Thank you very much for your understanding.
Source
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On April 09 2016 21:34 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Funny how all the frenchies get up in arms trying to either say Mlord wasn't cheating or that Bly or Bunny were, when it's clear to anyone with a brain the difference:
Mlord clearly lost on purpose to get DnS into the tournament, when he would've been out of it otherwise; Bly was already in the tourney, his loss would't gift anyone else entry, Bunny's win had nothing to do with him, he was gifted a win that, again, changed nothing since he was already qualified and Shadown wasn't anyway.
No idea from where you're from but in France, a condamnation is made with evidences and Blizzard didn't bring any of them except a historic of games.
And what if the gift (I didn't count the points) would have give him the spot? This system is pretty bad.
Anyway, you clearly have trouble to read the posts so I guess you have a brain but you're still an idiot. If Mlord and DNS are cheaters, well, they will enjoy their banning and this is fair but seem like some irregularities are accepted and this sounds as hypocrite as your post.
User was warned for this post
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On April 09 2016 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Words of truth and wisdom.
The intention behind the ladder qualifier was all good as usual, but the potential consequences could be foreseen by anyone with a brain. Sadly when Blizzard see something "cool" they tend to forget about their brains.
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On April 09 2016 23:40 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Words of truth and wisdom. The intention behind the ladder qualifier was all good as usual, but the potential consequences could be foreseen by anyone with a brain. Sadly when Blizzard see something "cool" they tend to forget about their brains.
Yep, even progamers warned them of that. Sadly, even progamers aren't listened to.
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On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional.
Yes, well said.
You're no longer allowed to rage-quit a game, nor have a bad game, nor cheese, nor try out new builds.
Blizzard's competency is something which I am starting to seriously question (though actually I've been doing it before). I don't want to be negative or insulting or anything but I am just not seeing the right calls being made by Blizzard.
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On April 09 2016 23:48 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Yes, well said. You're no longer allowed to rage-quit a game, nor have a bad game, nor cheese, nor try out new builds. Blizzard's competency is something which I am starting to seriously question (though actually I've been doing it before). I don't want to be negative or insulting or anything but I am just not seeing the right calls being made by Blizzard.
Yeah but what if that wasn't important at all? Mlord is already qualified (until further notice) Bly wasn't able to go further than looser round 2, and I'm not certain DnS would have grabbed a qualifying spot.
So the competition is not really harmed. If you were in Blizzard shoes, you would have to whether say wintrading on ladder is ok and embrace the consequence, or punishing harshly even if you're never 100% sure of it... you sound like a superior being, so if you had been Blizzard staff, what would you have done?
For the record, rage quitting or being silly never been allowed in any tournament (check Naniwa vs Nestea drama if you forgot) and you can't reasonably try a new build if you're pro competing in a ladder race.
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On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like?
What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly.
Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either.
So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information?
I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims?
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Replays of DNS vs smurf account ? Could help to ease the minds of doubters.
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On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims?
It is poorly handled by the simple fact that Blizzard is unable to properly do their PR lately on these cases (regardless of what they actually do about the punishment and who anyone chooses to believe).
- Bly has a pass -> no comment from Blizzard
- Mlord and DnS -> they are contacted by Blizzard and DQ'ed, no evidence shown to us in public statement
- Bunny has a free win -> no comment from Blizzard, Bunny has to explain on Twitter (WTF)
- Major has suspicious losses -> DQ without notice, Major posts his side of the story, no evidence shown to us in public statement
Blizzard has no obligation to anything, but you know since I love SC2, I love what Blizzard does as a game company and I give them my money sometimes, I'd like not to be taken for an idiot. When actions/punishements are enforced, I take it that the info we got in the statement is all we're going to get, which is not really acceptable imo.
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On April 10 2016 03:20 PPN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims? It is poorly handled by the simple fact that Blizzard is unable to properly do their PR lately on these cases (regardless of what they actually do about the punishment and who anyone chooses to believe). - Bly has a pass -> no comment from Blizzard - Mlord and DnS -> they are contacted by Blizzard and DQ'ed, no evidence shown to us in public statement - Bunny has a free win -> no comment from Blizzard, Bunny has to explain on Twitter (WTF) - Major has suspicious losses -> DQ without notice, Major posts his side of the story, no evidence shown to us in public statement Blizzard has no obligation to anything, but you know since I love SC2, I love what Blizzard does as a game company and I give them my money sometimes, I'd like not to be taken for an idiot. When actions/punishements are enforced, I take it that the info we got in the statement is all we're going to get, which is not really acceptable imo.
Really, the only thing fishy here is Major's case as it seems he was not aware himself. For the rest, I think we can wait a couple of days to have a clear statement.
+ Show Spoiler +my assupmption : they're not sure yet about how hard they need to hit MLord and DnS - better really think thoroughly about this one, consequence are not menial. They won't make the final communication before they're 100% certain of their choice. It just happened yesterday after all
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On April 10 2016 03:20 PPN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims? It is poorly handled by the simple fact that Blizzard is unable to properly do their PR lately on these cases (regardless of what they actually do about the punishment and who anyone chooses to believe). - Bly has a pass -> no comment from Blizzard - Mlord and DnS -> they are contacted by Blizzard and DQ'ed, no evidence shown to us in public statement - Bunny has a free win -> no comment from Blizzard, Bunny has to explain on Twitter (WTF) - Major has suspicious losses -> DQ without notice, Major posts his side of the story, no evidence shown to us in public statement Blizzard has no obligation to anything, but you know since I love SC2, I love what Blizzard does as a game company and I give them my money sometimes, I'd like not to be taken for an idiot. When actions/punishements are enforced, I take it that the info we got in the statement is all we're going to get, which is not really acceptable imo.
I totally agree with your last paragraph, but I don't feel we're taken as idiots this time.
- Didn't they say something back then about Bly's actions? Something like "what you did didn't go unnoticed by us". (I'd even consider that a warning.)
- ML and DnS DQ: they said they will give more details when the investigation finishes, can't we wait just a little bit? Or do we need it absolutely now?
- No need to go around explaining why everyone else is not penalized. Bunny made the statement to save face, not because it was his duty to do so.
- Major's case: they didnt contact him, that's a huge and shitty mistake. But regarding the evidence shown to the public, the same with ML and DnS applies: wait until they're done investigating.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining my point correctly... I'm in no way saying Blizzard is doing everything right (in fact I disagree with most of the things they're doing lately), what I am saying is: why can't we wait to have the full picture before saying Blizzard's penalizations are wrong? I feel people are rushing insults and incompetence claims.
Edit: Gwavajuice's assumption seems to be the most likely imo.
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So many people mention some good Bunny's post, what was this? Just a tweet or did he actually write somewhere his opinion?
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France12762 Posts
On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims?
They didn't ban him right away. Some guy whined about it on twitter so they were afraid of bad PR and then decided to DQ him without even asking Harstem if he wanted it at all.
That was poorly handled and show that they mostly care about PR and not about being fair.
Kinda like their handling of design and balance issues actually.
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On April 09 2016 23:40 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Words of truth and wisdom. The intention behind the ladder qualifier was all good as usual, but the potential consequences could be foreseen by anyone with a brain. Sadly when Blizzard see something "cool" they tend to forget about their brains.
Especially if it's fun too
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On April 10 2016 04:08 Diabolique wrote:
So many people mention some good Bunny's post, what was this? Just a tweet or did he actually write somewhere his opinion?
https://twitter.com/Liquid_Bunny/status/718717736625532928
On April 10 2016 04:08 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 03:20 PPN wrote:On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims? It is poorly handled by the simple fact that Blizzard is unable to properly do their PR lately on these cases (regardless of what they actually do about the punishment and who anyone chooses to believe). - Bly has a pass -> no comment from Blizzard - Mlord and DnS -> they are contacted by Blizzard and DQ'ed, no evidence shown to us in public statement - Bunny has a free win -> no comment from Blizzard, Bunny has to explain on Twitter (WTF) - Major has suspicious losses -> DQ without notice, Major posts his side of the story, no evidence shown to us in public statement Blizzard has no obligation to anything, but you know since I love SC2, I love what Blizzard does as a game company and I give them my money sometimes, I'd like not to be taken for an idiot. When actions/punishements are enforced, I take it that the info we got in the statement is all we're going to get, which is not really acceptable imo. I totally agree with your last paragraph, but I don't feel we're taken as idiots this time. - Didn't they say something back then about Bly's actions? Something like "what you did didn't go unnoticed by us". (I'd even consider that a warning.) - ML and DnS DQ: they said they will give more details when the investigation finishes, can't we wait just a little bit? Or do we need it absolutely now? - No need to go around explaining why everyone else is not penalized. Bunny made the statement to save face, not because it was his duty to do so. - Major's case: they didnt contact him, that's a huge and shitty mistake. But regarding the evidence shown to the public, the same with ML and DnS applies: wait until they're done investigating. I'm not sure if I'm explaining my point correctly... I'm in no way saying Blizzard is doing everything right (in fact I disagree with most of the things they're doing lately), what I am saying is: why can't we wait to have the full picture before saying Blizzard's penalizations are wrong? I feel people are rushing insults and incompetence claims. Edit: Gwavajuice's assumption seems to be the most likely imo.
And I'm saying that they are doing the wrong things and in the wrong order. They should not take actions before they are sure of what they are doing and by that I mean :
- contacting the parties involved
- done investigating
- preping a full PR statement that may or may not include evidence (I'd rather with evidence as my posts lately suggest)
On top of everything that is wrong and screwed up, they are totally giving all the signs that they are shooting first and asking questions later, which is the worst thing you can do when attempting to not create drama.
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So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard.
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On April 08 2016 22:57 Gwavajuice wrote:
So Bly cries like a baby and then he's put back into the bracket?
Hope the replay is relevant though, cause if it's not...
No, Bly is seeded in the right spot to get put back into the bracket.
I think I have way too little information to know whether these allegations are true...but if they are, that's very sad for SC as a game, seeing as MLorD is one of the players with the most potential in LotV, and DnS was just on his comeup.
EDIT: Does anyone know if there are actual standards that Blizzard has released as to the punishments for various types of matchfixing or win-trading? Seems like a pretty silly way of handling things, that is, a case-by-case basis. There needs to be some type of transparent standard for these things. Although Blizzard is doing the right thing by going after players they believe to be involved in some sort of foul-play, they're really just making the whole game's scene look like a clusterfuck by having this non-transparent system of punishment. Gives me the impression that these types of things are very widespread, but some people just get unlucky. Almost as if matchfixing has reached a point where it's like speeding: everyone does it, but some people are just never caught for it.
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Yeah this is a lose-lose situation all around; either Blizzard is incompetent or players are cheating. :/
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Too many people trying to police the un-policeable. Prime example is what that guy did in his game with Bunny, He bought the game so he can play ladder and if he wants to leave a game because he has a man-crush on Bunny he can, who the fk can tell him otherwise. The ladder is un-policeable. FACT.
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On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard.
MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain .
You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games.
Game 1
3 min 15s
DnS do a 3 gate proxy
MLord do a CC
2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing
Win for DnS +19 points
Game 2
9 min 10s
MLord do a 3 barrack proxy
DnS do gate, nexus, starport
Dns loose the second nexus
At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably).
Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase.
At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's.
With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight.
Win for DnS +19 points
Game 3
5 min 32s
It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened.
Loose for DnS, -8 points.
If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it).
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On April 09 2016 23:48 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Yes, well said. You're no longer allowed to rage-quit a game, nor have a bad game, nor cheese, nor try out new builds. Blizzard's competency is something which I am starting to seriously question (though actually I've been doing it before). I don't want to be negative or insulting or anything but I am just not seeing the right calls being made by Blizzard.
This. How do you ever firmly prove a game is thrown, besides intercepting in-game chat if people are that stupid, or monitoring their Skype / Whatsapp which is outright illegal ? Do you not have the right to play with a fever or after a sleepless night, simply because you're MLord ? Do you even have a moral obligation to play at your highest level every time ? Can't you just f*** around on ladder trying new builds ?
Slippery slope is disturbing, unless sanctions become evidence-based. Until then, they're just tarnishing players' reputations ( DnS is probably the third best French Protoss, a 2-1 series in his favour against MarineLord is not out of the realm of possibles at all ). As such, it is poor form by Blizzard.
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On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it).
Blizzard? TL Mods?
Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic.
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On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it).
It's true it's not very obvious, but what sealed the case for me is when Yogo (caster from Millenium) was on OGTV for the tournament and his answer on the case was : "OMG! why did they do this, it's so stupid"
I mean if ML was innocent, people from his own team would stand up to defend him, wouldn't they?
The second important thing to me was the comparison of the outcome (+31 points) to the actual result of the ladder tournament : from Bly (18th with 1298 points,) to Happy (8th with 1308 points) you only have 10 points, so 31 points is actually a lot of points!! DnS also had 1308 points therefore, without this series against ML's smurf, he would never have made top 16.
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Hm, what is to stop some random no name from getting high in GM and spamming every top 16 players he plays "Here is your free win! Thanks for wintrading with me earlier!! " just to fuck with the ladder? Blizzard's attempt to make ladder legit is actually pretty funny. They need to figure out a way to make the competition fair and good. But then again, they aren't very good at making smart decisions, just "cool new ideas gais!"
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On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly.
It was rather clearly a joke, and Harstem confirmed it. If Flash/Hero/Snute... was trolling and faking to see Harstem replay at x1 in public, or fake to play on Harstem account etc... I bet nobody will have DQ him...
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they can always join liquids overwatch team
User was warned for this post
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On April 11 2016 02:38 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). It's true it's not very obvious, but what sealed the case for me is when Yogo (caster from Millenium) was on OGTV for the tournament and his answer on the case was : "OMG! why did they do this, it's so stupid" I mean if ML was innocent, people from his own team would stand up to defend him, wouldn't they? The second important thing to me was the comparison of the outcome (+31 points) to the actual result of the ladder tournament : from Bly (18th with 1298 points,) to Happy (8th with 1308 points) you only have 10 points, so 31 points is actually a lot of points!! DnS also had 1308 points therefore, without this series against ML's smurf, he would never have made top 16.
Yogo also said that it didnt looked like marinelord. That he was a huge troll on twitter, but was super professional during tournaments.
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rofl i knew something like this would happen
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On April 11 2016 08:07 oGoZenob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 02:38 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). It's true it's not very obvious, but what sealed the case for me is when Yogo (caster from Millenium) was on OGTV for the tournament and his answer on the case was : "OMG! why did they do this, it's so stupid" I mean if ML was innocent, people from his own team would stand up to defend him, wouldn't they? The second important thing to me was the comparison of the outcome (+31 points) to the actual result of the ladder tournament : from Bly (18th with 1298 points,) to Happy (8th with 1308 points) you only have 10 points, so 31 points is actually a lot of points!! DnS also had 1308 points therefore, without this series against ML's smurf, he would never have made top 16. Yogo also said that it didnt looked like marinelord. That he was a huge troll on twitter, but was super professional during tournaments.
That's true, so I guess there's still a chance that ML and DnS are actually innocent and are waiting to have sorted everything out with Blizzard before making any public statement...
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On April 11 2016 08:07 oGoZenob wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 02:38 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). It's true it's not very obvious, but what sealed the case for me is when Yogo (caster from Millenium) was on OGTV for the tournament and his answer on the case was : "OMG! why did they do this, it's so stupid" I mean if ML was innocent, people from his own team would stand up to defend him, wouldn't they? The second important thing to me was the comparison of the outcome (+31 points) to the actual result of the ladder tournament : from Bly (18th with 1298 points,) to Happy (8th with 1308 points) you only have 10 points, so 31 points is actually a lot of points!! DnS also had 1308 points therefore, without this series against ML's smurf, he would never have made top 16. Yogo also said that it didnt looked like marinelord. That he was a huge troll on twitter, but was super professional during tournaments.
Yes like you, I have not understood Yogo like Gwavajuice has. To me, it seemed that Yogo had no more information than the DH statement at this point.
Until Blizzard make its judgment and give us more informations, we're bound to speculations.
One thing to note is that the DQ was made before the players were asked to send their replays apparently.
Also, another thing on why the players don't state about this on tweeter. There was a precedent in France with Firecake at the Underdogs competition. O'Gaming had suspicions about matchfix for Firecake, they keep it private with the players involved but FCK tweeted about it and asked for retweet to support him not match fixing. He was cleared later but OG chose to ban him from OG competition for the rest of the year. Why if he was not matchfixing ? Because it has drawn so much bad publicity (articles, forum threads like this, ...), people criticized OG, the competition manager, ... Bad publicity is really a nightmare for public business where sponsors are a major part of it. That's why tweeting in a middle of a drama is not the best thing to do.
Guess what thread has the more pages between this one and Major's ? The one were the player try to defend himself and where a pro troll repeat again and again the same thing.
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On April 11 2016 03:58 teddyoojo wrote:
they can always join liquids overwatch team
User was warned for this post
Only if they made PR STATEMENTS telling everyone just how sorry they are and just how much they're matured and how they will never do it again - oh and how they dont expect us to trust or respect them right away but they will try their very best to earn it with hard work and respect for the community, the game, the rules and everyone's mothers!
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Yogo also said that some years ago, Stephano used to rage quit all games when he was doing a single mistake in the first 5 minutes.
So much win trading...
They have to rethink the ladder qualification system
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On April 11 2016 17:14 FFgringo wrote:
Yogo also said that some years ago, Stephano used to rage quit all games when he was doing a single mistake in the first 5 minutes.
So much win trading...
They have to rethink the ladder qualification system
I remember this at I agree
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On April 11 2016 17:14 FFgringo wrote:
Yogo also said that some years ago, Stephano used to rage quit all games when he was doing a single mistake in the first 5 minutes.
So much win trading...
They have to rethink the ladder qualification system
at that time nobody cared about ladder position
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On April 11 2016 17:14 FFgringo wrote:
Yogo also said that some years ago, Stephano used to rage quit all games when he was doing a single mistake in the first 5 minutes.
So much win trading...
They have to rethink the ladder qualification system
Lots of people do that. I myself do it quite a lot.
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On April 11 2016 02:28 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). Blizzard? TL Mods? Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic.
TL mods, do your job and protect the integrity of this website? Thanks.
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On April 11 2016 22:13 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 02:28 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). Blizzard? TL Mods? Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic. TL mods, do your job and protect the integrity of this website? Thanks.
Is your post some kind of clever plot to trick someone into backseat moderating your backseat moderation?
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On April 11 2016 17:14 FFgringo wrote:
Yogo also said that some years ago, Stephano used to rage quit all games when he was doing a single mistake in the first 5 minutes.
So much win trading...
They have to rethink the ladder qualification system
Hmm Stephano leaving games 4 years before ladder competition was introduced? what the f are you talking about? why are you even posting?
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On April 11 2016 22:13 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 02:28 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). Blizzard? TL Mods? Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic. TL mods, do your job and protect the integrity of this website? Thanks.
and ban/warn anybody not agreeing with you?
The fact that ML and DnS have been banned is not suspicion, it's a fact, and most post in this thread are trying to discuss and understand what happened without pitchforking anyone. Bunny's case is a hard one, but really banning him too, would have been kind of extreme, no?
And I'm sorry, discrediting WCS system is as bad as as discrediting players reputation. And anyway, how giving the actual details on the games is an offense to the players?
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On April 11 2016 09:03 Binomyo wrote:
eeter. There was a precedent in France with Firecake at the Underdogs competition. O'Gaming had suspicions about matchfix for Firecake, they keep it private with the players involved but FCK tweeted about it and asked for retweet to support him not match fixing.
Please, be carefull with what you say. It was not about match fixing. It was more about Firecake trolling by not finishing a game that he should have won for a long time. Not the same thing.
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This does not look good.
"If" marinelord and dns were doing things that were not punished in the past and no warning was given, its a scary outlook for the SC2 scene.
I say If because I dont actually know.
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On April 11 2016 22:30 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 22:13 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 11 2016 02:28 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). Blizzard? TL Mods? Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic. TL mods, do your job and protect the integrity of this website? Thanks. and ban/warn anybody not agreeing with you? The fact that ML and DnS have been banned is not suspicion, it's a fact, and most post in this thread are trying to discuss and understand what happened without pitchforking anyone. Bunny's case is a hard one, but really banning him too, would have been kind of extreme, no? And I'm sorry, discrediting WCS system is as bad as as discrediting players reputation. And anyway, how giving the actual details on the games is an offense to the players?
You don't get his point.
This is still speculation mostly and without factual evidence (being banned is not evidence, that's the sanction, lol), this is very damaging to the players' reputations without them having a say about it.
He's not asking to ban people who don't agree with him, he's asking that we don't keep slandering / potentially ruining players' career without any factual evidence. The problem with Blizzard is that they most likely have none, so basically players are seeing their careers be damaged very severely over what is so far nothing. These threads contribute to that damage.
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On April 11 2016 22:30 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 22:13 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 11 2016 02:28 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). Blizzard? TL Mods? Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic. TL mods, do your job and protect the integrity of this website? Thanks. and ban/warn anybody not agreeing with you? The fact that ML and DnS have been banned is not suspicion, it's a fact, and most post in this thread are trying to discuss and understand what happened without pitchforking anyone. Bunny's case is a hard one, but really banning him too, would have been kind of extreme, no? And I'm sorry, discrediting WCS system is as bad as as discrediting players reputation. And anyway, how giving the actual details on the games is an offense to the players?
Please read this post. Your shortsighted comment with the uncreative strawman isn't fooling anyone. You can like WCS, you can hate it. I personally think 2016 WCS is a complete joke and a disgrace to this scene. In fact, I think the phrase 'professional gamer' has been changed from 'compete and be the best like no one ever was'. However, that is completely beside the point.
On April 11 2016 23:06 Incognoto wrote:
You don't get his point.
This is still speculation mostly and without factual evidence (being banned is not evidence, that's the sanction, lol), this is very damaging to the players' reputations without them having a say about it.
He's not asking to ban people who don't agree with him, he's asking that we don't keep slandering / potentially ruining players' career without any factual evidence. The problem with Blizzard is that they most likely have none, so basically players are seeing their careers be damaged very severely over what is so far nothing. These threads contribute to that damage.
In fact, every form of 'evidence' in the matchfix case we currently have is more in favor of ML/DnS that against them. The way those games played out is not that unimaginable.
Every second this thread remains open just contributes to the 'trial by media' which is now happening and potentially screwing over the careers of two competitors. The fact that the Bunny case remains unspoken off (despite this being a similar form of manipulating ladder. Even if it is apparantly against his wishes, it's manipulation nonetheless), and nobody forsaw this coming, is extremely amateurish.
In short: the way this is handled by TL staff, Blizzard and Dreamhack is besides everything you would expect from professional organizations, and it disgusts me.
|
On April 12 2016 00:31 SC2Toastie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 22:30 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 11 2016 22:13 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 11 2016 02:28 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). Blizzard? TL Mods? Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic. TL mods, do your job and protect the integrity of this website? Thanks. and ban/warn anybody not agreeing with you? The fact that ML and DnS have been banned is not suspicion, it's a fact, and most post in this thread are trying to discuss and understand what happened without pitchforking anyone. Bunny's case is a hard one, but really banning him too, would have been kind of extreme, no? And I'm sorry, discrediting WCS system is as bad as as discrediting players reputation. And anyway, how giving the actual details on the games is an offense to the players? Please read this post. Your shortsighted comment with the uncreative strawman isn't fooling anyone. You can like WCS, you can hate it. I personally think 2016 WCS is a complete joke and a disgrace to this scene. In fact, I think the phrase 'professional gamer' has been changed from 'compete and be the best like no one ever was'. However, that is completely beside the point. Show nested quote +On April 11 2016 23:06 Incognoto wrote:
You don't get his point.
This is still speculation mostly and without factual evidence (being banned is not evidence, that's the sanction, lol), this is very damaging to the players' reputations without them having a say about it.
He's not asking to ban people who don't agree with him, he's asking that we don't keep slandering / potentially ruining players' career without any factual evidence. The problem with Blizzard is that they most likely have none, so basically players are seeing their careers be damaged very severely over what is so far nothing. These threads contribute to that damage. In fact, every form of 'evidence' in the matchfix case we currently have is more in favor of ML/DnS that against them. The way those games played out is not that unimaginable. Every second this thread remains open just contributes to the 'trial by media' which is now happening and potentially screwing over the careers of two competitors. The fact that the Bunny case remains unspoken off (despite this being a similar form of manipulating ladder. Even if it is apparantly against his wishes, it's manipulation nonetheless), and nobody forsaw this coming, is extremely amateurish. In short: the way this is handled by TL staff, Blizzard and Dreamhack is besides everything you would expect from professional organizations, and it disgusts me.
"shortsighted comment with the uncreative strawman" the f are you talking about?
You are the one making a trial by media, you are the one accusing Blizzard with no evidence, cause actually you have no clue about what they know and what ML and DnS told them. As far as we know they maybe even admitted the facts to blizzard's staff. Yet, you feel allowed to call them amateurish and disgusting.
You go as far as saying that Bunny (whose case has spoken off largely btw) should deserve some kind of action against him, but I suppose that's not trial by media either?
Seriously, you should calm down. DnS and ML have been disqualified, it's a fact and it's ok to have a thread discussing it. Again, you have strong opinions, other people can express theirs too. For instance, the fact that TL.net staff doesn't have the same view than you on moderation doesn't make them "disgusting".
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On April 12 2016 01:02 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 00:31 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 11 2016 22:30 Gwavajuice wrote:On April 11 2016 22:13 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 11 2016 02:28 SC2Toastie wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. + Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it). Blizzard? TL Mods? Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic. TL mods, do your job and protect the integrity of this website? Thanks. and ban/warn anybody not agreeing with you? The fact that ML and DnS have been banned is not suspicion, it's a fact, and most post in this thread are trying to discuss and understand what happened without pitchforking anyone. Bunny's case is a hard one, but really banning him too, would have been kind of extreme, no? And I'm sorry, discrediting WCS system is as bad as as discrediting players reputation. And anyway, how giving the actual details on the games is an offense to the players? Please read this post. Your shortsighted comment with the uncreative strawman isn't fooling anyone. You can like WCS, you can hate it. I personally think 2016 WCS is a complete joke and a disgrace to this scene. In fact, I think the phrase 'professional gamer' has been changed from 'compete and be the best like no one ever was'. However, that is completely beside the point. On April 11 2016 23:06 Incognoto wrote:
You don't get his point.
This is still speculation mostly and without factual evidence (being banned is not evidence, that's the sanction, lol), this is very damaging to the players' reputations without them having a say about it.
He's not asking to ban people who don't agree with him, he's asking that we don't keep slandering / potentially ruining players' career without any factual evidence. The problem with Blizzard is that they most likely have none, so basically players are seeing their careers be damaged very severely over what is so far nothing. These threads contribute to that damage. In fact, every form of 'evidence' in the matchfix case we currently have is more in favor of ML/DnS that against them. The way those games played out is not that unimaginable. Every second this thread remains open just contributes to the 'trial by media' which is now happening and potentially screwing over the careers of two competitors. The fact that the Bunny case remains unspoken off (despite this being a similar form of manipulating ladder. Even if it is apparantly against his wishes, it's manipulation nonetheless), and nobody forsaw this coming, is extremely amateurish. In short: the way this is handled by TL staff, Blizzard and Dreamhack is besides everything you would expect from professional organizations, and it disgusts me. "shortsighted comment with the uncreative strawman" the f are you talking about? You are the one making a trial by media, you are the one accusing Blizzard with no evidence, cause actually you have no clue about what they know and what ML and DnS told them. As far as we know they maybe even admitted the facts to blizzard's staff. Yet, you feel allowed to call them amateurish and disgusting. You go as far as saying that Bunny (whose case has spoken off largely btw) should deserve some kind of action against him, but I suppose that's not trial by media either? Seriously, you should calm down. DnS and ML have been disqualified, it's a fact and it's ok to have a thread discussing it. Again, you have strong opinions, other people can express theirs too. For instance, the fact that TL.net staff doesn't have the same view than you on moderation doesn't make them "disgusting".
Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
As for your point 1: 2 players have been condemned, their names publicly slandered. HOWEVER, we've been given no reason to accept this disciplinary action against two players other than the authority of Blizzard themselves. People looked into the match history, and there is no reason to claim matchfixing from there. If there is evidence, it should at least be made public, so the discussion going on is not just speculation. Like it currently is.
You failed to mention how the whole tournament having ladder based qualifiers is stupid.
Bunny should at least lose those points? And the other player receives a disciplinary action for messing with the standings? In this case, nothing happened, but this situation sets a precedent. IF I claim on bnet that I don't want this free win just before midnight, then I can text the guy to boost me, and it's fine?
This is an argument on principle. Without evidence this thread is slander. And slander belongs on Reddit, not TL.net.
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Mute City2363 Posts
How is this in any way slander? It's a thread based off a statement made by Dreamhack. No accusations have been made by the OP, it's simply reporting the action that DH / Blizzard staff have made.
Whether you agree or disagree with the actions taken, the sheer fact that they were makes this news.
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It has to do with the standard TL (used to) uphold of not being as cancerous as reddit.
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On April 12 2016 04:41 SC2Toastie wrote:
It has to do with the standard TL (used to) uphold of not being as cancerous as reddit.
???
It's the news. It's the posters that have tarnished this thread, not the creation of the thread itself.
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I'm sure the 10 people who watch them will be devastated.
Seriously though this is just a mark of SC2's decline - players will start doing more to 'get their due' or whatever as the money and popularity available declines.
User was warned for this post
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On April 12 2016 10:04 Larkin wrote:
I'm sure the 10 people who watch them will be devastated.
Seriously though this is just a mark of SC2's decline - players will start doing more to 'get their due' or whatever as the money and popularity available declines.
User was warned for this post
This scene is really sad these days.
Bad decision after bad decision.
Sadly I hardly watch sc2 anymore, I get a lot more enjoyment out of watching Heroes.
Good competition, and a fraction of the drama in comparison.
#DustinBroder?
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@ above
Not really relevant to this thread though.
And @2 above
I'm pretty sure foreigners have more opportunities to make money than ever before. I also watched a bit of the matches, but I mostly just watched for the players I liked, and skipped the rest which is pretty normal. I still watch KR StarCraft often though.
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This thread is a trainwreck
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All this mindless Blizzard bashing... Blizzard handled this situation exactly the same way Korean officials handled the match fixing case of Life and the other guys involved. They said what they did and gave us a reason why they did it. In no way do they have to make all the information they have public at this point in time. This is absolutely standard procedure and every responsible authority would do and has done it the absolute same way.
Furthermore i do not think that Blizzard is in any way surprised by these events. I believe they have seen them coming as most other people have foreseen these things. But what do you want them to do? Write a rule for every eventuality? They are dealing with these events as they happen, which is btw. how the American justice system works. There werent laws for everything back in the day. Most of the laws were established only AFTER somebody was caught abusing or cheating. Also all these "haters" should maybe keep in mind that this is the first time they did a qualifier this way. Cut them some slack! They will get it right eventually. If you expect things to be perfect right from the start you are just very naive.
Also i realize how rather childish critics of the WCS system can rejoice because of these events. But first of all, these events have absolutely nothing to do with the region lock, so may i ask you to just keep that discussion out of this thread? And secondly, if you truly enjoy Starcraft and want it to succeed you should be ashamed of yourself if drama like this makes you happy.
PS: Dear SC2Toastie, i´ve seen quite a lot of posts from you over the years and even though i dont always agree with you, you generally post your opinion in a productive, civil and respectful way. I can and do appreciate that. I also understand you do not like the current WCS system. I disagree with your assessment about why it is bad, but anyway, may I ask you to please refrain from being provoked into personal attacks and this general toxicity that flows around any pro-con discussion about the WCS system. It doesnt help, it doesnt achieve anything, it isnt useful. Thank you
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WCS has indeed nothing to do with the topic at hand; point most people are making is that the way this was handled was not on-point, potentially unfair and very damaging to the players involved. If the allegations are true, then it's fine. If there is a mistake then some players just paid a very dear price for said mistake.
It's a lose-lose situation. The foreigner scene takes a hit if the allegations are true, the players just took a lot of severe damage for nothing if the allegations are false. Neither development is positive for the scene.
Blizzard's complete lack of transparency and solid evidence doesn't really help. It just makes things more confusing for players, fans and tournament organizers. I guess people want to hear more details on this affair to put unease at rest.
Either way, Blizzard is going to get remarks from the community when they mess up: as they should. In the same vein that Blizzard will be congratulated by the community when they do things right: e.g. LOTV is a damn good expansion, both to play and to watch at a high level.
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On April 12 2016 19:03 Incognoto wrote:
WCS has indeed nothing to do with the topic at hand; point most people are making is that the way this was handled was not on-point, potentially unfair and very damaging to the players involved. If the allegations are true, then it's fine. If there is a mistake then some players just paid a very dear price for said mistake.
i disagree with that Incognoto. Like you posted yourself, if the allegations are true, it´s fine. Problem is, people are arguing Blizzard handled this poorly as if the allegations weren't true. But they dont have all the information. The argument that Blizz isnt giving us all the information they might have is flawed since they have no obligation of doing so. Like i already mentioned above if the investigation is still going on it is actually best practice NOT to give out any information (see the match fixing case of Life. All we know so far is that he has been arrested for match fixing). Arguing that banning players should be the punishment and only come after their guilt has been proven is flawed as well. When you are suspected to have killed someone you get arrested even if your guilt hasnt been proven 100% yet. The fact that Blizzard did take such severe action already should, if anything, hint that they have solid prove.
I also dont think it is a lose-lose situation. Given the allegations are true Blizzard clearly shows they are indeed enforcing the rules and are willing to punish cheating players quite severely. The argument they handled the Bly situation differently is again flawed. It was a different situation that simply can not be compared to this situation.
I absolutely agree that Blizzard should get remarks for what they do, good and bad. But in this case i think most critics are simply jumping the gun.
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On April 12 2016 21:28 looken wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 19:03 Incognoto wrote:
WCS has indeed nothing to do with the topic at hand; point most people are making is that the way this was handled was not on-point, potentially unfair and very damaging to the players involved. If the allegations are true, then it's fine. If there is a mistake then some players just paid a very dear price for said mistake. i disagree with that Incognoto. Like you posted yourself, if the allegations are true, it´s fine. Problem is, people are arguing Blizzard handled this poorly as if the allegations weren't true. But they dont have all the information. The argument that Blizz isnt giving us all the information they might have is flawed since they have no obligation of doing so. Like i already mentioned above if the investigation is still going on it is actually best practice NOT to give out any information (see the match fixing case of Life. All we know so far is that he has been arrested for match fixing). Arguing that banning players should be the punishment and only come after their guilt has been proven is flawed as well. When you are suspected to have killed someone you get arrested even if your guilt hasnt been proven 100% yet. The fact that Blizzard did take such severe action already should, if anything, hint that they have solid prove. I also dont think it is a lose-lose situation. Given the allegations are true Blizzard clearly shows they are indeed enforcing the rules and are willing to punish cheating players quite severely. The argument they handled the Bly situation differently is again flawed. It was a different situation that simply can not be compared to this situation. I absolutely agree that Blizzard should get remarks for what they do, good and bad. But in this case i think most critics are simply jumping the gun.
No sane person is claiming Blizzard has an obligation to share their information/evidence/reasoning - after all Blizzard is judge jury and executioner in this case. What some (of us) wish for is transparency for all parties' sake. Community has a chance to make sure Blizzard is acting professionally - Blizzard gets to showcase their professionalism (assuming they made no errors on their part) - players get a chance of due process. I don't think anyone's interested in Blizzard rushing things, not investigating throughly - but at least they should issue a statement about their accusations/confidence in evidence/planned course of action/how much time they estimate a proper investigation will take before they'll be able to make a full statement etc
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On April 12 2016 21:28 looken wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 19:03 Incognoto wrote:
WCS has indeed nothing to do with the topic at hand; point most people are making is that the way this was handled was not on-point, potentially unfair and very damaging to the players involved. If the allegations are true, then it's fine. If there is a mistake then some players just paid a very dear price for said mistake. i disagree with that Incognoto. Like you posted yourself, if the allegations are true, it´s fine. Problem is, people are arguing Blizzard handled this poorly as if the allegations weren't true. But they dont have all the information. The argument that Blizz isnt giving us all the information they might have is flawed since they have no obligation of doing so. Like i already mentioned above if the investigation is still going on it is actually best practice NOT to give out any information (see the match fixing case of Life. All we know so far is that he has been arrested for match fixing). Arguing that banning players should be the punishment and only come after their guilt has been proven is flawed as well. When you are suspected to have killed someone you get arrested even if your guilt hasnt been proven 100% yet. The fact that Blizzard did take such severe action already should, if anything, hint that they have solid prove. I also dont think it is a lose-lose situation. Given the allegations are true Blizzard clearly shows they are indeed enforcing the rules and are willing to punish cheating players quite severely. The argument they handled the Bly situation differently is again flawed. It was a different situation that simply can not be compared to this situation.
A fair enough assessment, though I am still just not very sure that players are receiving fair treatment on the grounds that it's probably not possible to enforce these rules in a fair way: mixing up the ladder which is supposed to be informal practice with a tournament qualifier which is supposed to be formal. I think the players are paying the price of Blizzard's mistakes (them being short-sighed as to the limitations of a ladder qualifier) and it is probably done so unfairly. Hence the criticism. The situation is murky at best and Blizzard's lack of transparency does nothing to help.
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Like i already said, i dont think there is a lack of transparency. from my point of view the community is just really impatient. I can understand that given the problem though, i would like to know the full story myself, i just dont think there is much Blizzard can do about it. What you express DonDomingo would result in a statement with lots of words yet very little substance. I can only speculate, but i dont think it would satisfy anybody. Now i will agree to a lack of transparency should no statement come within a couple of days.
I think someone mentioned earlier that mixing the ladder with a tournament qualifier was made with best intentions, we just hit a couple of bumps. Personally i believe the idea of making the ladder more competitive to be very good and i think the pro feedback was that it was crazy good practice for some time. But the situation was new for everybody. I dont think stuff like "leaving a game to get medicine 4 hrs before the deadline" will be made should that system continue. and given the severe punishment i´d assume nobody will cheat (so obviously) anymore.
PS: Thank you guys for the discussion, this was (is) fun and very refreshing
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Let's be productive for a second. Imho, making a qualifier based on the ladder is a very cool idea, it gives purpose to it and most pros agree that it's a fun race. Still, it's a bit to extreme to do just one measurment point a one time, and qualify the top players at that instant. Maybe it would be more accurate to do it over the span of a week ? like every 12/24 hours, the positions are saved, and give you points, which are added over the span of a week. Or just taking the average position of the players over the week.
The point is, you make it an endurance race, and not a sprint, which ends up with people so close to each other that you're not even sure is the position are really relevant. and it's harder to cheat without getting caught in a long time span too :p
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Who are these guys..? What is WCS?
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On April 13 2016 01:00 oGoZenob wrote:
Let's be productive for a second. Imho, making a qualifier based on the ladder is a very cool idea, it gives purpose to it and most pros agree that it's a fun race. Still, it's a bit to extreme to do just one measurment point a one time, and qualify the top players at that instant. Maybe it would be more accurate to do it over the span of a week ? like every 12/24 hours, the positions are saved, and give you points, which are added over the span of a week. Or just taking the average position of the players over the week.
The point is, you make it an endurance race, and not a sprint, which ends up with people so close to each other that you're not even sure is the position are really relevant. and it's harder to cheat without getting caught in a long time span too :p
Lets be honest, its probably poorly thought out.
Maybe the ladder thingy was simply too rushed ?
Or maybe we should accept that a ladder qualifier will have to hit some bumps along the road till its polished?
Its something not perfect, but its all we have got, so lets try the best of it.
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On April 13 2016 01:09 Boanerges wrote:
Who are these guys..? What is WCS?
They are two irrelevant foreigners and WCS (World Championship Series) is the Blizzard sponsored program that helps players such as those live out their dreams of being mediore at a video game - erh I MEAN: they are two very talented promising players from France and WCS is a league just like SSL or GSL just for Europeans.
+ Show Spoiler +please dont murder me and my loved ones! It was just a joke i couldnt resist making - my hearth knows no malice!
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France12762 Posts
On April 13 2016 07:08 DonDomingo wrote:They are two irrelevant foreigners and Welfare Circus System (WCS for short) is the Blizzard sponsored program that helps players such as those live out their dreams of being mediore at a video game - erh I MEAN: they are two very talented promising players from France and WCS is a league just like SSL or GSL just for Europeans. + Show Spoiler +please dont murder me and my loved ones! It was just a joke i couldnt resist making - my hearth knows no malice!
Isn't France the best nation tho? )))
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On April 13 2016 07:29 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 07:08 DonDomingo wrote:On April 13 2016 01:09 Boanerges wrote:
Who are these guys..? What is WCS? They are two irrelevant foreigners and Welfare Circus System (WCS for short) is the Blizzard sponsored program that helps players such as those live out their dreams of being mediore at a video game - erh I MEAN: they are two very talented promising players from France and WCS is a league just like SSL or GSL just for Europeans. + Show Spoiler +please dont murder me and my loved ones! It was just a joke i couldnt resist making - my hearth knows no malice! Isn't France the best nation tho? )))
Nope, just most passionate.
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Seriously I don't know what is worst and has more affected my drop of interest in SC2.
Is that the matchfix / wintrade like scandals
Or is it the way organizations handle those with absolutely no communication which lets fans in the blur and makes the game seem really shady.
Because it's either players actually cheating, or institution abusing power according to who likes who. In every case, it just sucks.
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On April 13 2016 07:08 DonDomingo wrote:They are two irrelevant foreigners and Welfare Circus System (WCS for short) is the Blizzard sponsored program that helps players such as those live out their dreams of being mediore at a video game - erh I MEAN: they are two very talented promising players from France and WCS is a league just like SSL or GSL just for Europeans. + Show Spoiler +please dont murder me and my loved ones! It was just a joke i couldnt resist making - my hearth knows no malice!
Europeans and Polt and Hydra**
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On April 13 2016 07:32 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2016 07:29 Poopi wrote:On April 13 2016 07:08 DonDomingo wrote:On April 13 2016 01:09 Boanerges wrote:
Who are these guys..? What is WCS? They are two irrelevant foreigners and Welfare Circus System (WCS for short) is the Blizzard sponsored program that helps players such as those live out their dreams of being mediore at a video game - erh I MEAN: they are two very talented promising players from France and WCS is a league just like SSL or GSL just for Europeans. + Show Spoiler +please dont murder me and my loved ones! It was just a joke i couldnt resist making - my hearth knows no malice! Isn't France the best nation tho? ))) Nope, just most passionate.
That's not true, they also have the best Starcraft 3 player.
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Russian Federation367 Posts
it's either players actually cheating, or institution abusing power according to who likes who
Actually it is both. Im not joking or telling anything just to tell - thats how sc2 world works since HotS release.
The reason why I talk about "before HotS times" because it was like a wild wild west time where everyone was doing smth they want and passionate about without any control and after HotS blizzard and ppl that were close to them started to take global control into their hands which led SC2 to a place where it is now.
You can believe me or not, Im just a guy that played/organized and done a lot of small esports things in my community since closed sc2 beta (actually I started even earlier at wc3).
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zWKdZWz.jpg[/img[/spoiler]]<br>This is DnS's match history:[spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/Z89DQrA.jpg)
