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Starting on Page 7, using the phrase, "Welfare Circus Series/System" will result in mod action. It breeds negativity and it's just generally a stupid thing to say. All in all, please stop discussing the WCS system, this thread is about the disqualification. |
On April 09 2016 23:40 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Words of truth and wisdom. The intention behind the ladder qualifier was all good as usual, but the potential consequences could be foreseen by anyone with a brain. Sadly when Blizzard see something "cool" they tend to forget about their brains.
Yep, even progamers warned them of that. Sadly, even progamers aren't listened to.
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On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional.
Yes, well said.
You're no longer allowed to rage-quit a game, nor have a bad game, nor cheese, nor try out new builds.
Blizzard's competency is something which I am starting to seriously question (though actually I've been doing it before). I don't want to be negative or insulting or anything but I am just not seeing the right calls being made by Blizzard.
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On April 09 2016 23:48 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Yes, well said. You're no longer allowed to rage-quit a game, nor have a bad game, nor cheese, nor try out new builds. Blizzard's competency is something which I am starting to seriously question (though actually I've been doing it before). I don't want to be negative or insulting or anything but I am just not seeing the right calls being made by Blizzard.
Yeah but what if that wasn't important at all? Mlord is already qualified (until further notice) Bly wasn't able to go further than looser round 2, and I'm not certain DnS would have grabbed a qualifying spot.
So the competition is not really harmed. If you were in Blizzard shoes, you would have to whether say wintrading on ladder is ok and embrace the consequence, or punishing harshly even if you're never 100% sure of it... you sound like a superior being, so if you had been Blizzard staff, what would you have done?
For the record, rage quitting or being silly never been allowed in any tournament (check Naniwa vs Nestea drama if you forgot) and you can't reasonably try a new build if you're pro competing in a ladder race.
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On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like?
What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly.
Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either.
So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information?
I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims?
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Replays of DNS vs smurf account ? Could help to ease the minds of doubters.
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On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims?
It is poorly handled by the simple fact that Blizzard is unable to properly do their PR lately on these cases (regardless of what they actually do about the punishment and who anyone chooses to believe).
- Bly has a pass -> no comment from Blizzard
- Mlord and DnS -> they are contacted by Blizzard and DQ'ed, no evidence shown to us in public statement
- Bunny has a free win -> no comment from Blizzard, Bunny has to explain on Twitter (WTF)
- Major has suspicious losses -> DQ without notice, Major posts his side of the story, no evidence shown to us in public statement
Blizzard has no obligation to anything, but you know since I love SC2, I love what Blizzard does as a game company and I give them my money sometimes, I'd like not to be taken for an idiot. When actions/punishements are enforced, I take it that the info we got in the statement is all we're going to get, which is not really acceptable imo.
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On April 10 2016 03:20 PPN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims? It is poorly handled by the simple fact that Blizzard is unable to properly do their PR lately on these cases (regardless of what they actually do about the punishment and who anyone chooses to believe). - Bly has a pass -> no comment from Blizzard - Mlord and DnS -> they are contacted by Blizzard and DQ'ed, no evidence shown to us in public statement - Bunny has a free win -> no comment from Blizzard, Bunny has to explain on Twitter (WTF) - Major has suspicious losses -> DQ without notice, Major posts his side of the story, no evidence shown to us in public statement Blizzard has no obligation to anything, but you know since I love SC2, I love what Blizzard does as a game company and I give them my money sometimes, I'd like not to be taken for an idiot. When actions/punishements are enforced, I take it that the info we got in the statement is all we're going to get, which is not really acceptable imo.
Really, the only thing fishy here is Major's case as it seems he was not aware himself. For the rest, I think we can wait a couple of days to have a clear statement.
+ Show Spoiler +my assupmption : they're not sure yet about how hard they need to hit MLord and DnS - better really think thoroughly about this one, consequence are not menial. They won't make the final communication before they're 100% certain of their choice. It just happened yesterday after all
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On April 10 2016 03:20 PPN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims? It is poorly handled by the simple fact that Blizzard is unable to properly do their PR lately on these cases (regardless of what they actually do about the punishment and who anyone chooses to believe). - Bly has a pass -> no comment from Blizzard - Mlord and DnS -> they are contacted by Blizzard and DQ'ed, no evidence shown to us in public statement - Bunny has a free win -> no comment from Blizzard, Bunny has to explain on Twitter (WTF) - Major has suspicious losses -> DQ without notice, Major posts his side of the story, no evidence shown to us in public statement Blizzard has no obligation to anything, but you know since I love SC2, I love what Blizzard does as a game company and I give them my money sometimes, I'd like not to be taken for an idiot. When actions/punishements are enforced, I take it that the info we got in the statement is all we're going to get, which is not really acceptable imo.
I totally agree with your last paragraph, but I don't feel we're taken as idiots this time.
- Didn't they say something back then about Bly's actions? Something like "what you did didn't go unnoticed by us". (I'd even consider that a warning.)
- ML and DnS DQ: they said they will give more details when the investigation finishes, can't we wait just a little bit? Or do we need it absolutely now?
- No need to go around explaining why everyone else is not penalized. Bunny made the statement to save face, not because it was his duty to do so.
- Major's case: they didnt contact him, that's a huge and shitty mistake. But regarding the evidence shown to the public, the same with ML and DnS applies: wait until they're done investigating.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining my point correctly... I'm in no way saying Blizzard is doing everything right (in fact I disagree with most of the things they're doing lately), what I am saying is: why can't we wait to have the full picture before saying Blizzard's penalizations are wrong? I feel people are rushing insults and incompetence claims.
Edit: Gwavajuice's assumption seems to be the most likely imo.
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So many people mention some good Bunny's post, what was this? Just a tweet or did he actually write somewhere his opinion?
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France12908 Posts
On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims?
They didn't ban him right away. Some guy whined about it on twitter so they were afraid of bad PR and then decided to DQ him without even asking Harstem if he wanted it at all.
That was poorly handled and show that they mostly care about PR and not about being fair.
Kinda like their handling of design and balance issues actually.
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On April 09 2016 23:40 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:59 OtherWorld wrote:On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Words of truth and wisdom. The intention behind the ladder qualifier was all good as usual, but the potential consequences could be foreseen by anyone with a brain. Sadly when Blizzard see something "cool" they tend to forget about their brains.
Especially if it's fun too 
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On April 10 2016 04:08 Diabolique wrote:
So many people mention some good Bunny's post, what was this? Just a tweet or did he actually write somewhere his opinion?
On April 10 2016 04:08 Silvana wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 03:20 PPN wrote:On April 10 2016 00:34 Silvana wrote:On April 09 2016 22:16 Poopi wrote:On April 09 2016 22:06 Silvana wrote:
Why are you guys doubting Blizzard? Don't you think if the dq was unfair these 2 players would let us know by now ?
I mean it fine to have public evidence and play judge if we like, but you are not the judge so give it some decent time before complaining. .. I dunno, this AND the Sioras DQ seem poorly handled. Providing evidence would be the minimum for us to be able to know if it's fair, because Bunny getting away with a freewin and the spot is weird even though it's not his fault. Why not deducing the points he got and see what the ranking looks like? What was bad about Sioras DQ? No matter what Harstem or his manager said, he did something wrong and got punished accordingly. Regarding this case, we don't know if it is poorly handled or not, because without the evidence we cannot tell. We don't exactly know the differences between this case and Bunny's either. So what I'm asking is why is everyone calling bad management, unfairness, double standards, and even conspiracies (lol) without full information? I don't want to offend anyone, but I feel like you guys feel like Blizzard has an obligation to give you whatever evidence they have. Sure that is nice and make a good image for Blizzard, and keeps a good relationship with the fans, but this is not a public trial and we are not the judges, so again why can't you wait for the complete info to be released before making claims? It is poorly handled by the simple fact that Blizzard is unable to properly do their PR lately on these cases (regardless of what they actually do about the punishment and who anyone chooses to believe). - Bly has a pass -> no comment from Blizzard - Mlord and DnS -> they are contacted by Blizzard and DQ'ed, no evidence shown to us in public statement - Bunny has a free win -> no comment from Blizzard, Bunny has to explain on Twitter (WTF) - Major has suspicious losses -> DQ without notice, Major posts his side of the story, no evidence shown to us in public statement Blizzard has no obligation to anything, but you know since I love SC2, I love what Blizzard does as a game company and I give them my money sometimes, I'd like not to be taken for an idiot. When actions/punishements are enforced, I take it that the info we got in the statement is all we're going to get, which is not really acceptable imo. I totally agree with your last paragraph, but I don't feel we're taken as idiots this time. - Didn't they say something back then about Bly's actions? Something like "what you did didn't go unnoticed by us". (I'd even consider that a warning.) - ML and DnS DQ: they said they will give more details when the investigation finishes, can't we wait just a little bit? Or do we need it absolutely now? - No need to go around explaining why everyone else is not penalized. Bunny made the statement to save face, not because it was his duty to do so. - Major's case: they didnt contact him, that's a huge and shitty mistake. But regarding the evidence shown to the public, the same with ML and DnS applies: wait until they're done investigating. I'm not sure if I'm explaining my point correctly... I'm in no way saying Blizzard is doing everything right (in fact I disagree with most of the things they're doing lately), what I am saying is: why can't we wait to have the full picture before saying Blizzard's penalizations are wrong? I feel people are rushing insults and incompetence claims. Edit: Gwavajuice's assumption seems to be the most likely imo.
And I'm saying that they are doing the wrong things and in the wrong order. They should not take actions before they are sure of what they are doing and by that I mean :
- contacting the parties involved
- done investigating
- preping a full PR statement that may or may not include evidence (I'd rather with evidence as my posts lately suggest)
On top of everything that is wrong and screwed up, they are totally giving all the signs that they are shooting first and asking questions later, which is the worst thing you can do when attempting to not create drama.
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So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard.
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On April 08 2016 22:57 Gwavajuice wrote:
So Bly cries like a baby and then he's put back into the bracket?
Hope the replay is relevant though, cause if it's not...
No, Bly is seeded in the right spot to get put back into the bracket.
I think I have way too little information to know whether these allegations are true...but if they are, that's very sad for SC as a game, seeing as MLorD is one of the players with the most potential in LotV, and DnS was just on his comeup.
EDIT: Does anyone know if there are actual standards that Blizzard has released as to the punishments for various types of matchfixing or win-trading? Seems like a pretty silly way of handling things, that is, a case-by-case basis. There needs to be some type of transparent standard for these things. Although Blizzard is doing the right thing by going after players they believe to be involved in some sort of foul-play, they're really just making the whole game's scene look like a clusterfuck by having this non-transparent system of punishment. Gives me the impression that these types of things are very widespread, but some people just get unlucky. Almost as if matchfixing has reached a point where it's like speeding: everyone does it, but some people are just never caught for it.
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Yeah this is a lose-lose situation all around; either Blizzard is incompetent or players are cheating. :/
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Too many people trying to police the un-policeable. Prime example is what that guy did in his game with Bunny, He bought the game so he can play ladder and if he wants to leave a game because he has a man-crush on Bunny he can, who the fk can tell him otherwise. The ladder is un-policeable. FACT.
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On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard.
MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain .
You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games.
Game 1
3 min 15s
DnS do a 3 gate proxy
MLord do a CC
2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing
Win for DnS +19 points
Game 2
9 min 10s
MLord do a 3 barrack proxy
DnS do gate, nexus, starport
Dns loose the second nexus
At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably).
Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase.
At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's.
With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight.
Win for DnS +19 points
Game 3
5 min 32s
It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened.
Loose for DnS, -8 points.
If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it).
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On April 09 2016 23:48 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional. Yes, well said. You're no longer allowed to rage-quit a game, nor have a bad game, nor cheese, nor try out new builds. Blizzard's competency is something which I am starting to seriously question (though actually I've been doing it before). I don't want to be negative or insulting or anything but I am just not seeing the right calls being made by Blizzard.
This. How do you ever firmly prove a game is thrown, besides intercepting in-game chat if people are that stupid, or monitoring their Skype / Whatsapp which is outright illegal ? Do you not have the right to play with a fever or after a sleepless night, simply because you're MLord ? Do you even have a moral obligation to play at your highest level every time ? Can't you just f*** around on ladder trying new builds ?
Slippery slope is disturbing, unless sanctions become evidence-based. Until then, they're just tarnishing players' reputations ( DnS is probably the third best French Protoss, a 2-1 series in his favour against MarineLord is not out of the realm of possibles at all ). As such, it is poor form by Blizzard.
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On April 09 2016 22:53 SC2Toastie wrote:I find it kinda curious though that we're allowed to have a whole thread with the assumption of two players exploiting extremely obvious flaws in one of the + Show Spoiler +insert WCS welfare comments, srsly, the thing is retarded WCS qualifications. Their career is more and more screwed every second we allow this discussion without any evidence to run rampant, yet we're somehow okay with this. I'm perfectly fine with discrediting anything WCS/Ban-Korea related, really, but at least do it in an open and fair manner. Accepting Bunny getting an unfair advantage, and not allowing other players to do the same thing sounds hypocritical. Also, you have to accept that this is something bound to happen. Additionally: How do we define wintrading? Would it have been fine in MLord went SCV rush, practicing this special tactic every game? How about blind 3 rax, with DnS knowing it and preparing? Would that have changed the situation? A qualifier this open for abuse and interpretation should not play a role in the most 'prestigious' (HAHAHAHAHA) tournament of SC2. It's ridiculous and honestly very unprofessional.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it).
Blizzard? TL Mods?
Every second you allow this thread to exist is an insult to the competitive scene. This is without taking WCS  into account. You can have your opinion on WCS, even if you are for it, this thread is hurting the reputation of players without proof, based on PURE suspicions, for now. It's degrading. Pathetic.
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On April 10 2016 14:28 Binomyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2016 05:49 Ppjack wrote:
So... since we don't have proofs from blizzard, it seems like:
- Shadown leaving a game because he likes bunny = nothing happens
- Bunny receiving a free win, even though he does not ask for it, but profit from it = nothing happens
- Major leaving a game because sick (or any reason one could leave, phone call or whatever) = banned
- Marinelord leaving two games (edit: making less efforts causing 2 loss) because he likes Dns = banned
- Dns profiting from it, and probably asking for it = banned
- Bly convinced of abusing the system (leaving games on purpose to get a better seed) = nothing happens
Blizzard seems clueless. Not even talking about the lack of communication, the situation is handled so poorly by blizzard. MLord didn't quit the game like Shadown did, just a few seconds after start (edit: did not see your edit, but don't agree also with MLord making less effort). Even if Bunny has nothing to do, Blizz should have deduced these 9 points from his score. Bunny would have had a score of 1296 and would still be qualified but that would have seem less that they care only about certain . You can access the game stats via DnS profile and make your own opinion. Here's my analysis of the games. Game 13 min 15s DnS do a 3 gate proxy MLord do a CC 2 zealots and 8 adept vs 7 marines and all of Mlord probes, GG timing Win for DnS +19 points Game 29 min 10s MLord do a 3 barrack proxy DnS do gate, nexus, starport Dns loose the second nexus At 3:01, the production was 9 marines vs 2 adept and 1 oracle (and some probes probably). Meanwhile, DnS to have used his Oracle well as MLord income does not increase. At 3:53, DnS remade his nexus and his earnings will take over MLord's. With a better army value and better upgrade, DnS had an advantage after that first fight. Win for DnS +19 points Game 35 min 32s It seem like a mine drop. DnS seem to have loosed his nexus because he make a second at 5:17 but I can't really discern what the fuck had happened. Loose for DnS, -8 points. If it is wintrade, they don't seem to have choose the more productive way. May be the biggest mistake for MLord was to play with his smurf when the "ladder competition" was not ended (but I haven't seen rules against it).
It's true it's not very obvious, but what sealed the case for me is when Yogo (caster from Millenium) was on OGTV for the tournament and his answer on the case was : "OMG! why did they do this, it's so stupid"
I mean if ML was innocent, people from his own team would stand up to defend him, wouldn't they?
The second important thing to me was the comparison of the outcome (+31 points) to the actual result of the ladder tournament : from Bly (18th with 1298 points,) to Happy (8th with 1308 points) you only have 10 points, so 31 points is actually a lot of points!! DnS also had 1308 points therefore, without this series against ML's smurf, he would never have made top 16.
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EPT
