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On April 08 2016 19:04 deacon.frost wrote:
The statement says they are punishing them further to say "don't mess with KeSPA" message. This is a moral shit. Sorry you have a different view.
To me their statement says "don't mess with the integrity of starcraft", which is indeed why KeSPA exists in the first place.
Match-fixing is serious as fuck, businesses are being ran and if the integrity of starcraft is attacked, then so are those businesses, as well as the people working there: progamers, casters, studios, etc.
:/
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On April 08 2016 19:09 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 19:04 deacon.frost wrote:
The statement says they are punishing them further to say "don't mess with KeSPA" message. This is a moral shit. Sorry you have a different view.
To me their statement says "don't mess with the integrity of starcraft", which is indeed why KeSPA exists in the first place. Match-fixing is serious as fuck, businesses are being ran and if the integrity of starcraft is attacked, then so are those businesses, as well as the people working there: progamers, casters, studios, etc. :/
Not, that's why Blizzard exists, but that's just nitpicking.
A few days ago, a court decided to sentence those involved in the crime to suspended sentences and fines. However, the Assocation and e-Sports teams are extremely concerned that this decision is insufficient to thoroughly prevent copycat crimes,
This to me says "the sentence isn't hard enough, we have to punish them harder". Which is, from my view, wrong.
And as I said, they have to bring a proof the decline happened because of them and not because of, e.g., Ding It(nice example from the past  ). So basically they are punishing them financially by the need of having a defending lawyer, because I hardly believe they will have a proper evidence of the damage done because of the match fixing. Unless they have a letter from some sponsor saying "your players match fixed thus FU, KeSPA" ... 
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On April 08 2016 19:08 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 18:39 Penev wrote:On April 08 2016 18:18 Caihead wrote:On April 08 2016 18:08 Penev wrote:
They should focus more on improving the money distribution in their organization if they want to limit the chances for match fixing to happen. I say limit because completely stopping it will be close to impossible obviously. How much money do A-teamers make on a SC2 team compared to if they were high school drop outs working the same intensity jobs with the same hours? I'm not buying the sob story that this is the fault of low salaries. Going into progaming is almost definitely a conscious choice, it's not like your life's in the shit hole and you are forced to play SC2 to feed yourself. Teams go through trouble just to sign people on because time is spent negotiating with the parents to make sure they would even allow it (I'm pretty sure Flash's parents took ALOT of convincing for him to even play on a team). I highly doubt even in S. Korea that going to play Starcraft (or any other game for that matter) for a living is some default bottom of the barrel dead-end job. If the salaries of doing the same type of work in the same type of environment (offices, bunk beds, team houses, entertainment industry, media industry, etc) is comparable then I don't see how you can blame Kespa for anything. Don't the teams get budgets from their sponsors? What leverage does Kespa really have to get more money to the teams other than PR stunts like this? It's not a sob story it's criminal science. The correlation between income, inequality and crime is well documented. Edit: As is the ineffectiveness, contra effectiveness even, of harsher punishments (allthough punishments can be too light as well). The reason there's so much crime in the US compared to other developed countries is because of the worse social systems it has. The high sentences are born out of anger over these crimes but they make matters only worse and are in quite a few cases inhumane, really. So am I to assume that the hundreds of thousands of other teenagers / young adults in Korea, again working in those comparable if not similar job positions, with similar incomes, similar work loads, should also be expected to cheat and steal and do whatever they want to make money as well? Are you really under the assumption that a person who chooses esports (again, CHOOSES since he has the luxury to do so) in South Korea - which has one of the highest HDI's in the world (17th), and a very respectable GDP per capita (36.5k), below average youth unemployment (only recently spiking to 12.5% while hovering at <10% the last year), very high GDP investment on education (7.6%) - forces young people into a life of crime? Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 18:46 OtherWorld wrote:On April 08 2016 18:18 Caihead wrote:On April 08 2016 18:08 Penev wrote:
They should focus more on improving the money distribution in their organization if they want to limit the chances for match fixing to happen. I say limit because completely stopping it will be close to impossible obviously. How much money do A-teamers make on a SC2 team compared to if they were high school drop outs working the same intensity jobs with the same hours? I'm not buying the sob story that this is the fault of low salaries. Going into progaming is almost definitely a conscious choice, it's not like your life's in the shit hole and you are forced to play SC2 to feed yourself. Teams go through trouble just to sign people on because time is spent negotiating with the parents to make sure they would even allow it (I'm pretty sure Flash's parents took ALOT of convincing for him to even play on a team). I highly doubt even in S. Korea that going to play Starcraft (or any other game for that matter) for a living is some default bottom of the barrel dead-end job. If the salaries of doing the same type of work in the same type of environment (offices, bunk beds, team houses, entertainment industry, media industry, etc) is comparable then I don't see how you can blame Kespa for anything. Don't the teams get budgets from their sponsors? What leverage does Kespa really have to get more money to the teams other than PR stunts like this? What you perceive a job to be like before you take it and what the job actually is once you're in the system are very different thing. Thinking that a teenager who goes into progaming has perfect knowledge of what his life is really going to be like - he probably doesn't even know the difference 500 additional dollars per month make on life, since he never lived autonomously - and thus should somehow love the low salaries and absurd training regimen in the name of "it's passion, he knew it" is really, really naive. That's why teams talk to the parents. You realize that right? Even for a team as big as KT recruiting someone like Flash can meet heavy resistance from parental guidance and disagreement. Teams do scouting and contracting just like any other professional sport. If you are going to criticize that then the whole system's busted, not Kespa.
Yeah because children are perfect copies of their parents, that's right. They are different people, who maybe hold different values to different things. Values also change over time, meaning that a young pro who doesn't care about low salaries might learn to care about them two years in his career, once he realizes that he'll never be a StarLeague winner or his team's ace player. Meanwhile, parents, who know what low salaries is like, will maybe go along with it on the basis that "he knows what he's getting into", like you're doing. Matter of fact, they're not. Perception and values change over time.
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On April 08 2016 18:18 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 18:08 Penev wrote:
They should focus more on improving the money distribution in their organization if they want to limit the chances for match fixing to happen. I say limit because completely stopping it will be close to impossible obviously. How much money do A-teamers make on a SC2 team compared to if they were high school drop outs working the same intensity jobs with the same hours? I'm not buying the sob story that this is the fault of low salaries. Going into progaming is almost definitely a conscious choice, it's not like your life's in the shit hole and you are forced to play SC2 to feed yourself. Teams go through trouble just to sign people on because time is spent negotiating with the parents to make sure they would even allow it (I'm pretty sure Flash's parents took ALOT of convincing for him to even play on a team). I highly doubt even in S. Korea that going to play Starcraft (or any other game for that matter) for a living is some default bottom of the barrel dead-end job. If the salaries of doing the same type of work in the same type of environment (offices, bunk beds, team houses, entertainment industry, media industry, etc) is comparable then I don't see how you can blame Kespa for anything. Don't the teams get budgets from their sponsors? What leverage does Kespa really have to get more money to the teams other than PR stunts like this?
You definitely don't know anything about the state of South Korea. Minimum wage is less than $5 USD per hour. True minimum wage is even less because while they receive say 40 hours a week on paper, they're actually working 60+ hours a week with no extra pay, overtime, etc. A high school drop out will earn about $10,000-$12,000 a year. A University drop out will earn the same. What's even scarier? Tonnes of University graduates will earn the same as well. The job market is awful, opportunity is minimal, promotion is rare, and you basically have no rights as an employee. You need to share a half studio 3 towns away from your job just to afford living expenses. The consensus of the Korean population is that "this is that way it is, we can't do anything about it." The result is the term "Chosun Hell," the hatred of the chaebol, and all that other fun stuff.
This is definitely a result of low salaries. Korean Progamers sacrifice their high school and university education (and education is the end-all for Koreans), in order to attempt to get out of this bottom-of-barrel-scraping life. A couple people will do great and maybe open a restaurant or something like Flash plans. A bunch of guys on the Telecom teams and some stars will bank really solid paychecks and not blink at anything that would jeopardize their career. A lot will have above average salaries (Korean ones) and maybe prize money to BARELY hold them over until the transition to the next thing. Then you have guys who get zero salary. It would be amazing if they ever got to minimum wage. All they get is free rent and food while they slave away for their team, and maybe a few one-time dollars when their coach strikes a deal with a PC Bang or something. These guys (and the previous guys too), are the ones who see a guy waving $5000 in their face, half a year's salary or more money than they've ever seen, and they flinch. They see that they have no skills, will work in a crapper for the rest of their lives, have to save for 5-10 years to get that amount of cash after living expenses, and FLINCH.
While teams are paid by their sponsors, KeSPA can find creative solutions to make sure money is distributed more evenly. Raising the bottom line will definitely give Programers more hope and less incentive to throw away the nothing that they have in exchange for a few quick bucks.
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If the possible punishment was a deterrent, we would have significantly less crime in the world. This is just a vendetta against players who gave up their education to become pros and now have no income at all.
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On April 08 2016 19:08 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 18:39 Penev wrote:On April 08 2016 18:18 Caihead wrote:On April 08 2016 18:08 Penev wrote:
They should focus more on improving the money distribution in their organization if they want to limit the chances for match fixing to happen. I say limit because completely stopping it will be close to impossible obviously. How much money do A-teamers make on a SC2 team compared to if they were high school drop outs working the same intensity jobs with the same hours? I'm not buying the sob story that this is the fault of low salaries. Going into progaming is almost definitely a conscious choice, it's not like your life's in the shit hole and you are forced to play SC2 to feed yourself. Teams go through trouble just to sign people on because time is spent negotiating with the parents to make sure they would even allow it (I'm pretty sure Flash's parents took ALOT of convincing for him to even play on a team). I highly doubt even in S. Korea that going to play Starcraft (or any other game for that matter) for a living is some default bottom of the barrel dead-end job. If the salaries of doing the same type of work in the same type of environment (offices, bunk beds, team houses, entertainment industry, media industry, etc) is comparable then I don't see how you can blame Kespa for anything. Don't the teams get budgets from their sponsors? What leverage does Kespa really have to get more money to the teams other than PR stunts like this? It's not a sob story it's criminal science. The correlation between income, inequality and crime is well documented. Edit: As is the ineffectiveness, contra effectiveness even, of harsher punishments (allthough punishments can be too light as well). The reason there's so much crime in the US compared to other developed countries is because of the worse social systems it has. The high sentences are born out of anger over these crimes but they make matters only worse and are in quite a few cases inhumane, really. So am I to assume that the hundreds of thousands of other teenagers / young adults in Korea, again working in those comparable if not similar job positions, with similar incomes, similar work loads, should also be expected to cheat and steal and do whatever they want to make money as well? Are you really under the assumption that a person who chooses esports (again, CHOOSES since he has the luxury to do so) in South Korea - which has one of the highest HDI's in the world (17th), and a very respectable GDP per capita (36.5k), below average youth unemployment (only recently spiking to 12.5% while hovering at <10% the last year), very high GDP investment on education (7.6%) - forces young people into a life of crime? Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 18:46 OtherWorld wrote:On April 08 2016 18:18 Caihead wrote:On April 08 2016 18:08 Penev wrote:
They should focus more on improving the money distribution in their organization if they want to limit the chances for match fixing to happen. I say limit because completely stopping it will be close to impossible obviously. How much money do A-teamers make on a SC2 team compared to if they were high school drop outs working the same intensity jobs with the same hours? I'm not buying the sob story that this is the fault of low salaries. Going into progaming is almost definitely a conscious choice, it's not like your life's in the shit hole and you are forced to play SC2 to feed yourself. Teams go through trouble just to sign people on because time is spent negotiating with the parents to make sure they would even allow it (I'm pretty sure Flash's parents took ALOT of convincing for him to even play on a team). I highly doubt even in S. Korea that going to play Starcraft (or any other game for that matter) for a living is some default bottom of the barrel dead-end job. If the salaries of doing the same type of work in the same type of environment (offices, bunk beds, team houses, entertainment industry, media industry, etc) is comparable then I don't see how you can blame Kespa for anything. Don't the teams get budgets from their sponsors? What leverage does Kespa really have to get more money to the teams other than PR stunts like this? What you perceive a job to be like before you take it and what the job actually is once you're in the system are very different thing. Thinking that a teenager who goes into progaming has perfect knowledge of what his life is really going to be like - he probably doesn't even know the difference 500 additional dollars per month make on life, since he never lived autonomously - and thus should somehow love the low salaries and absurd training regimen in the name of "it's passion, he knew it" is really, really naive. That's why teams talk to the parents. You realize that right? Even for a team as big as KT recruiting someone like Flash can meet heavy resistance from parental guidance and disagreement. Teams do scouting and contracting just like any other professional sport. If you are going to criticize that then the whole system's busted, not Kespa.
Of course you are not to assume that, you're oversimplifying this. You have to compare inequality in the same sub culture to begin with (SC esports in this case).
You still seem to think I'm telling a sob story but I am not. I'm just being pragmatic; Reduce inequality and make sure income is high enough for people to support a decent existence and crime will go down. But it will not dissappear, there are other factors to consider. I never said they should only focus on this one just more .
And don't call people you try (I hope) to have a civil discussion with naive, doing that says more about you than the other.
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From a psyschological perspective, the crime or wrong you have done must be in line with the punishment.
If the punishment is to weak or to strong it has a bad effect.
From a psychological perspective if the punishment is in line with the crime or wrong you did, the person can learn from their mistake. If the punishment is to weak or to strong, they dont learn.
If the punishment is to strong, it might introduce fear. If the one person overcomes that fear, they can do it.
However, if the punishment is in line, there is no fear to overcome, the one person might not do the crime or wrong cuz of moral or something like it.
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I don't know everything about Kespa's role, but people are expecting way too much from them. Sc2 is either declining or barely holding, there are less tournaments in Korea, less interests, less viewers. Kespa can't just wave a magic wand and make sc2 great again. What they can do is go after the match fixers additionally and make them suffer.
While I think the penalties are good enough, I'm not going to feel sorry for any matchfixer/cheater.
I'd like to see studies which show that increased penalties don't lower crime because I'm sure they do in some cases. Any reasonable person (myself included) will look at the penalty when considering breaking the law and that will weigh into the decision. Keep in mind, Kespa might be privy to information that other match fixers are out there.
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On April 08 2016 21:26 Apoteosis wrote:
Where is Life?
i wish i knew
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The justice system of Korea is definitely beyond my understanding, why KeSPA was not part of the first trial on victim's side?
Isn't it meaning the match fixers will be judged twice for the same facts? What this new judgement will consist of, if they have already be found guilty?
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On April 08 2016 23:20 Gwavajuice wrote:
The justice system of Korea is definitely beyond my understanding, why KeSPA was not part of the first trial on victim's side?
Isn't it meaning the match fixers will be judged twice for the same facts? What this new judgement will consist of, if they have already be found guilty?
To pay for damages. A fine on top of their previous fines it will feel like for the match fixers.
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On April 08 2016 23:42 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:20 Gwavajuice wrote:
The justice system of Korea is definitely beyond my understanding, why KeSPA was not part of the first trial on victim's side?
Isn't it meaning the match fixers will be judged twice for the same facts? What this new judgement will consist of, if they have already be found guilty? To pay for damages. A fine on top of their previous fines it will feel like for the match fixers.
yeah I understand this, what I don't understand is why it's made as a reaction to the first judgement instead of asking for reparation in the first trial (with maybe an appeal if they're not happy with what they get in the first judgement)
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On April 08 2016 23:52 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 23:42 Penev wrote:On April 08 2016 23:20 Gwavajuice wrote:
The justice system of Korea is definitely beyond my understanding, why KeSPA was not part of the first trial on victim's side?
Isn't it meaning the match fixers will be judged twice for the same facts? What this new judgement will consist of, if they have already be found guilty? To pay for damages. A fine on top of their previous fines it will feel like for the match fixers. yeah I understand this, what I don't understand is why it's made as a reaction to the first judgement instead of asking for reparation in the first trial (with maybe an appeal if they're not happy with what they get in the first judgement)
I guess they have that seperate from the criminal case (this new one would be a civil case). I know in the US you have this option too. But I'm no expert on this.
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On April 08 2016 19:27 RoninKenshin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 18:18 Caihead wrote:On April 08 2016 18:08 Penev wrote:
They should focus more on improving the money distribution in their organization if they want to limit the chances for match fixing to happen. I say limit because completely stopping it will be close to impossible obviously. How much money do A-teamers make on a SC2 team compared to if they were high school drop outs working the same intensity jobs with the same hours? I'm not buying the sob story that this is the fault of low salaries. Going into progaming is almost definitely a conscious choice, it's not like your life's in the shit hole and you are forced to play SC2 to feed yourself. Teams go through trouble just to sign people on because time is spent negotiating with the parents to make sure they would even allow it (I'm pretty sure Flash's parents took ALOT of convincing for him to even play on a team). I highly doubt even in S. Korea that going to play Starcraft (or any other game for that matter) for a living is some default bottom of the barrel dead-end job. If the salaries of doing the same type of work in the same type of environment (offices, bunk beds, team houses, entertainment industry, media industry, etc) is comparable then I don't see how you can blame Kespa for anything. Don't the teams get budgets from their sponsors? What leverage does Kespa really have to get more money to the teams other than PR stunts like this? You definitely don't know anything about the state of South Korea. Minimum wage is less than $5 USD per hour. True minimum wage is even less because while they receive say 40 hours a week on paper, they're actually working 60+ hours a week with no extra pay, overtime, etc. A high school drop out will earn about $10,000-$12,000 a year. A University drop out will earn the same. What's even scarier? Tonnes of University graduates will earn the same as well. The job market is awful, opportunity is minimal, promotion is rare, and you basically have no rights as an employee. You need to share a half studio 3 towns away from your job just to afford living expenses. The consensus of the Korean population is that "this is that way it is, we can't do anything about it." The result is the term "Chosun Hell," the hatred of the chaebol, and all that other fun stuff. This is definitely a result of low salaries. Korean Progamers sacrifice their high school and university education (and education is the end-all for Koreans), in order to attempt to get out of this bottom-of-barrel-scraping life. A couple people will do great and maybe open a restaurant or something like Flash plans. A bunch of guys on the Telecom teams and some stars will bank really solid paychecks and not blink at anything that would jeopardize their career. A lot will have above average salaries (Korean ones) and maybe prize money to BARELY hold them over until the transition to the next thing. Then you have guys who get zero salary. It would be amazing if they ever got to minimum wage. All they get is free rent and food while they slave away for their team, and maybe a few one-time dollars when their coach strikes a deal with a PC Bang or something. These guys (and the previous guys too), are the ones who see a guy waving $5000 in their face, half a year's salary or more money than they've ever seen, and they flinch. They see that they have no skills, will work in a crapper for the rest of their lives, have to save for 5-10 years to get that amount of cash after living expenses, and FLINCH. While teams are paid by their sponsors, KeSPA can find creative solutions to make sure money is distributed more evenly. Raising the bottom line will definitely give Programers more hope and less incentive to throw away the nothing that they have in exchange for a few quick bucks.
Lol, that certainly puts things into perspective.
What's up with Korea if it's in such a sorry state? I'm guessing unemployment is low, I guess. :/
Edit: just to answer to this: Not, that's why Blizzard exists, but that's just nitpicking.
kespa actually existed with the goal of providing starcraft with protection/organization since before blizzard even announced starcraft 2. i think kespa is legitimate in their cause to protect the integrity of starcraft
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Suing judgment-proof people is an exercise in futility.
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On April 08 2016 23:58 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 19:27 RoninKenshin wrote:On April 08 2016 18:18 Caihead wrote:On April 08 2016 18:08 Penev wrote:
They should focus more on improving the money distribution in their organization if they want to limit the chances for match fixing to happen. I say limit because completely stopping it will be close to impossible obviously. How much money do A-teamers make on a SC2 team compared to if they were high school drop outs working the same intensity jobs with the same hours? I'm not buying the sob story that this is the fault of low salaries. Going into progaming is almost definitely a conscious choice, it's not like your life's in the shit hole and you are forced to play SC2 to feed yourself. Teams go through trouble just to sign people on because time is spent negotiating with the parents to make sure they would even allow it (I'm pretty sure Flash's parents took ALOT of convincing for him to even play on a team). I highly doubt even in S. Korea that going to play Starcraft (or any other game for that matter) for a living is some default bottom of the barrel dead-end job. If the salaries of doing the same type of work in the same type of environment (offices, bunk beds, team houses, entertainment industry, media industry, etc) is comparable then I don't see how you can blame Kespa for anything. Don't the teams get budgets from their sponsors? What leverage does Kespa really have to get more money to the teams other than PR stunts like this? You definitely don't know anything about the state of South Korea. Minimum wage is less than $5 USD per hour. True minimum wage is even less because while they receive say 40 hours a week on paper, they're actually working 60+ hours a week with no extra pay, overtime, etc. A high school drop out will earn about $10,000-$12,000 a year. A University drop out will earn the same. What's even scarier? Tonnes of University graduates will earn the same as well. The job market is awful, opportunity is minimal, promotion is rare, and you basically have no rights as an employee. You need to share a half studio 3 towns away from your job just to afford living expenses. The consensus of the Korean population is that "this is that way it is, we can't do anything about it." The result is the term "Chosun Hell," the hatred of the chaebol, and all that other fun stuff. This is definitely a result of low salaries. Korean Progamers sacrifice their high school and university education (and education is the end-all for Koreans), in order to attempt to get out of this bottom-of-barrel-scraping life. A couple people will do great and maybe open a restaurant or something like Flash plans. A bunch of guys on the Telecom teams and some stars will bank really solid paychecks and not blink at anything that would jeopardize their career. A lot will have above average salaries (Korean ones) and maybe prize money to BARELY hold them over until the transition to the next thing. Then you have guys who get zero salary. It would be amazing if they ever got to minimum wage. All they get is free rent and food while they slave away for their team, and maybe a few one-time dollars when their coach strikes a deal with a PC Bang or something. These guys (and the previous guys too), are the ones who see a guy waving $5000 in their face, half a year's salary or more money than they've ever seen, and they flinch. They see that they have no skills, will work in a crapper for the rest of their lives, have to save for 5-10 years to get that amount of cash after living expenses, and FLINCH. While teams are paid by their sponsors, KeSPA can find creative solutions to make sure money is distributed more evenly. Raising the bottom line will definitely give Programers more hope and less incentive to throw away the nothing that they have in exchange for a few quick bucks. Lol, that certainly puts things into perspective. What's up with Korea if it's in such a sorry state? I'm guessing unemployment is low, I guess. :/ Edit: just to answer to this: kespa actually existed with the goal of providing starcraft with protection/organization since before blizzard even announced starcraft 2. i think kespa is legitimate in their cause to protect the integrity of starcraft
South Korea made an enormous development jump in very little time. The hope is they'll fix their social problems in the near future but there's room for pessimism in that regard. From what I understand is that the country is basically led by big companies (Samsung) and it's not necessarily in their best interest to tackle these problems.
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On April 08 2016 19:27 RoninKenshin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2016 18:18 Caihead wrote:On April 08 2016 18:08 Penev wrote:
They should focus more on improving the money distribution in their organization if they want to limit the chances for match fixing to happen. I say limit because completely stopping it will be close to impossible obviously. How much money do A-teamers make on a SC2 team compared to if they were high school drop outs working the same intensity jobs with the same hours? I'm not buying the sob story that this is the fault of low salaries. Going into progaming is almost definitely a conscious choice, it's not like your life's in the shit hole and you are forced to play SC2 to feed yourself. Teams go through trouble just to sign people on because time is spent negotiating with the parents to make sure they would even allow it (I'm pretty sure Flash's parents took ALOT of convincing for him to even play on a team). I highly doubt even in S. Korea that going to play Starcraft (or any other game for that matter) for a living is some default bottom of the barrel dead-end job. If the salaries of doing the same type of work in the same type of environment (offices, bunk beds, team houses, entertainment industry, media industry, etc) is comparable then I don't see how you can blame Kespa for anything. Don't the teams get budgets from their sponsors? What leverage does Kespa really have to get more money to the teams other than PR stunts like this? You definitely don't know anything about the state of South Korea. Minimum wage is less than $5 USD per hour. True minimum wage is even less because while they receive say 40 hours a week on paper, they're actually working 60+ hours a week with no extra pay, overtime, etc. A high school drop out will earn about $10,000-$12,000 a year. A University drop out will earn the same. What's even scarier? Tonnes of University graduates will earn the same as well. The job market is awful, opportunity is minimal, promotion is rare, and you basically have no rights as an employee. You need to share a half studio 3 towns away from your job just to afford living expenses. The consensus of the Korean population is that "this is that way it is, we can't do anything about it." The result is the term "Chosun Hell," the hatred of the chaebol, and all that other fun stuff. This is definitely a result of low salaries. Korean Progamers sacrifice their high school and university education (and education is the end-all for Koreans), in order to attempt to get out of this bottom-of-barrel-scraping life. A couple people will do great and maybe open a restaurant or something like Flash plans. A bunch of guys on the Telecom teams and some stars will bank really solid paychecks and not blink at anything that would jeopardize their career. A lot will have above average salaries (Korean ones) and maybe prize money to BARELY hold them over until the transition to the next thing. Then you have guys who get zero salary. It would be amazing if they ever got to minimum wage. All they get is free rent and food while they slave away for their team, and maybe a few one-time dollars when their coach strikes a deal with a PC Bang or something. These guys (and the previous guys too), are the ones who see a guy waving $5000 in their face, half a year's salary or more money than they've ever seen, and they flinch. They see that they have no skills, will work in a crapper for the rest of their lives, have to save for 5-10 years to get that amount of cash after living expenses, and FLINCH. While teams are paid by their sponsors, KeSPA can find creative solutions to make sure money is distributed more evenly. Raising the bottom line will definitely give Programers more hope and less incentive to throw away the nothing that they have in exchange for a few quick bucks.
NO, you're wrong! You are just spouting Japanese propaganda, RoninKenshin-san. All my K-pop videos show that Korean standard of living is great! Oppai Gangnam Style!
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how much money do they want to waste in legal fees for a largely pointless gesture.
the issue isn't that match fixing is not considered a risk in terms of how severe the punishment is for players (you're pretty much fucked for the rest of your life...), it's that so many players are so poor financially that the risk seems more and more palpable.
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On April 08 2016 16:30 Waxangel wrote:
Apparently KeSPA jail was actually eternal financial ruin
Does this mean that Life is in the Kespa Gulag working in the Esport mines and that's why no one can find him?
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EPT
