GSL Code S Round of 16 Groups

don't watch it then

On March 16 2016 21:05 RichardNPL wrote:

don't watch it then

On March 16 2016 22:04 Charoisaur wrote:
most onesided group of death poll ever?

On March 16 2016 22:17 skatblast wrote:
Ive never heard of speed. Namechange?

On March 16 2016 22:19 IntoTheheart wrote:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Cure
I think so.

On March 16 2016 22:19 IntoTheheart wrote:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Cure
I think so.

On March 16 2016 22:10 IntoTheheart wrote:

Didn't PartinG once arrange for a super-group-of-death?

On March 16 2016 22:24 Elentos wrote:

You need to get better at being a Jin Air fan. Cure is in group B. SpeeD


I can't seem to find a poll for that specific one where he had PartinG/INno/Flash/Life, but none of the other ones I've seen were this one-sided. Incidentally, the majority of voters predicted Life/Flash to advance from that group but it ended up being Inno/PartinG.

On March 16 2016 22:31 IntoTheheart wrote:

Not my bloody fault they have the same ranking in WCS points M A T E.

On March 16 2016 22:24 Elentos wrote:

You need to get better at being a Jin Air fan. Cure is in group B. SpeeD


I can't seem to find a poll for that specific one where he had PartinG/INno/Flash/Life, but none of the other ones I've seen were this one-sided. Incidentally, the majority of voters predicted Life/Flash to advance from that group but it ended up being Inno/PartinG.

On March 16 2016 22:32 Elentos wrote:

Admit it, it's all your fault. All of it. It was actually you, disguised as TaeJa, who made the group of death.

On March 16 2016 22:34 Sif_ wrote:
I dont think people are giving enough credit for group D...

On March 16 2016 22:34 thecrazymunchkin wrote:

disappointing lack of google-fu

On March 16 2016 22:40 Darkhorse wrote:
Groups B and C are hella sad D: B because it has all really good players (with possible exception of Cure) and C because I literally want all of them to advance.

On March 16 2016 22:55 Grizvok wrote:


What are you smoking?

On March 16 2016 22:59 Grizvok wrote:


It's just funny he says Flash when he was mediocre at SC2 his entire career.

On March 16 2016 23:14 Elentos wrote:

Well firstly, that's not true. He was a top tier player when HotS launched. And secondly, his name appearing in the Ro16 alone was generally enough to make it more interesting - whether you wished to see him fail or finally break his Ro16 limit.

Sometimes, the name adds just as much as the quality of play.

On March 16 2016 23:20 IntoTheheart wrote:

I think Flash has different standards for himself, as one of the most (if not the most decorated) BW players.

On March 16 2016 23:35 y0su wrote:
dream v Z!

On March 16 2016 23:43 dNa wrote:
Cure so underrated by most players, literally hasn't dropped a map yet since qualifiers. I really think he can win that group ^_^

On March 16 2016 23:49 IntoTheheart wrote:
It's a little too late for me to go JIN
AIR
GREEN
WINGS eh?

On March 16 2016 23:53 IntoTheheart wrote:
Pfft as if I even know who they are off the top of my head. Are the Cure + $O$?

On March 16 2016 23:55 IntoTheheart wrote:
Basically I'm 0/2. What is my new team flair?

On March 16 2016 23:44 RichardNPL wrote:
group D imo more very deadly Myungsik TY Dear people forget Myungsik got in code S defeating TY

On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

On March 16 2016 21:01 Charoisaur wrote:
without Maru, INnoVation, PartinG, Life, sOs, Classic, Rain and Flash this looks quite lackluster compared to other ro16s.

On March 17 2016 02:05 Alarak89 wrote:

I would say Flash was kind of OK during the year of 2013, or at least at the beginning of the HoTS. But after that, his performance slumped exponentially

On March 17 2016 04:23 Alarak89 wrote:

Oh yeah, he is definitely in top 10, or maybe even in top 5 Terran players. But I would say the performance level between top 3 Terran players (by top 3, you know who I mean) and the rest is HUGE, also there were so many "better" Protoss and Zerg players in HoTS, so his performance was not quite impressive overall to me.

On March 17 2016 04:36 Charoisaur wrote:

I'm pretty sure if he had no BW success and his SC2 achievements would be all he had it would be generally seen as quite impressive.

On March 16 2016 22:10 IntoTheheart wrote:

Didn't PartinG once arrange for a super-group-of-death?

On March 17 2016 05:22 Alarak89 wrote:

Maybe you're right, I don't watch BW games so I don't know Flash before. IMO he might be among top 20 greatest players in SC2, but definitely not in top 10.

On March 17 2016 07:18 Big J wrote:

"Never ever going to happen."

On March 17 2016 09:40 Alarak89 wrote:

OK then let me rephrase my words, maybe Flash is among top 30 greatest SC2 players, satisfied now?

On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

On March 17 2016 10:22 Big J wrote:


I can probably name 15 players of each race of the top of my head that are more accomplished.

HerO, Dear, Symbol, HyuN, Curious, Solar, Stardust, Jaedong, San, Squirtle, First, Dream and probably several others I forgot.

On March 17 2016 11:43 Big J wrote:


These ten are obvious. Like, if you want to argue about that, I'm not even going to read it. Go to their result pages, then go to Flash's result page.
Mvp, MMA, INnoVation, Maru, Polt, Taeja, Bomber, jjakji, MarineKing, Dream

After that ranking becomes really hard without a system (which in itself goes to show how little flash accomplished). You'll have to start comparing what's more important, two Ro4 GSL or one non-GSL tournament win. 15 GSL seasons or a top 10 rank in alltime proleague statistics. And so on. Anyways, Flash is somewhere in a bulk of players with Puma, Gumiho, aLive, ForGG, Thorzain, Jinro and probably a few others I'm forgetting or I'm to lazy to look up.

On March 17 2016 12:16 Big J wrote:

Puma and Thorzain are both multiple Premier champions. Jjakji won a GSL (and had a few decent results afterwards that alone nearly match flash's premier performances)... last time I checked it was not possible to win something more important.
And I never said they were better players, I said they accomplished more/had better results. More recent players are always objectively better. Games evolve, Pele wouldnt even get to play for brazil these days. He is still the greatest.

On March 17 2016 13:37 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
Go watch jjakji vs leenock and tell me that gameplay was weaker back then

On March 17 2016 14:53 stuchiu wrote:


Paralyze made a ro8, he was real not a figment of my imagination.

On March 17 2016 14:13 The_Red_Viper wrote:

It was. We see better gameplay in ro16 matches these days, which doesn't mean that it wasn't exciting to watch. Imo you mistake one for the other

On March 17 2016 20:06 Elentos wrote:
Remind me again why this thread is completely about Flash now instead of the players in the Ro16 of Code S. I mean for the purposes of this thread, it really doesn't matter if Flash is in the top 30, 40 or 50 SC2 players of all time.

Who the top 8 players of right now are, that's much more intriguing for me.

On March 18 2016 00:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Do they have English VODs for the selection? I have a lot of downtime coming and I'm going to be insanely bored so I figured I'd watch it before the Ro16 started

On March 17 2016 19:59 Big J wrote:


First row: The ones I would put clearly ahead. The second row some that I'd say had similar success to flash.

DRG, Life, Nestea, Stephano, Soulkey, soO, ByuL, Solar, HyuN, Jaedong, Fruitdealer
Leenock, Losira, Hydra, Nerchio, Curious, RorO, Sniper, viOlet

Zest, sOs, PartinG, Classic, MC, Naniwa, HuK, herO, Rain, Dear,
Seed, MaNa, HerO, Creator, Stardust, Trap

And yes, as thecrazymunchkin said, it's about how strong those guys were for their time and also about their consistency and collected accomplishments. Players like Fruitdealer or Jjakji were incredible during their peaks (even Sniper, RorO or Seed). And yes, I'm heavily emphasizing solo leagues over teamleagues (don't forget that before proleague we had GSTL and it had its own ballers), simply due to the nature how you are matched against opponents. In solo leagues you have to win every match but one or two against opponents that had to qualify and then still get incrementally stronger, in teamleagues on the other hand it's Bo1's and you win some, you lose some against random opponents. You get fielded a lot if your coach wants you to, or you sit in the second row with the best stats if you are Zest but you have to win until you win a GSL title and the trainer realizes you should be the actual ace player.
And yes, some of the results are old. It's our history and I'm glad I remember it because it was awesome.

On March 17 2016 18:19 thecrazymunchkin wrote:


There's a difference between base mechanics and gameplay.

There will always be power creep in terms of mechanics, simply because the game is being worked out more and more as time goes by. It's simply not fair to look back and say 'oh look, no one was micro-ing like Maru 2015 back in 2011' because that's obviously true; tricks get worked out, iterated and then incorporated into the standard skillset of a player. If you go back early enough, there was a time when things we'd regard as incredibly basic now were solely done by the elite.

That's not very interesting to me. What is interesting though is the strategic layer beneath. It's probably true that if you drop anyone in Code S 2015/16 into the GSL Open Seasons, they would've won simply because of the progression of the scene as a whole (it would be a pretty shitty game if this didn't happen). But to watch jjakji vs Leenock, and to see the extent of jjakji's series planning, and the tactical moves he pulled off is to watch something that happens far, far too rarely now. You can criticise it mechanically perhaps (although frankly it's not that far below par), but strategically it was brilliant.

What I care about isn't comparing Flash 2015 to jjakji 2011; it's comparing how good they were relative to the time they played in. For that season (and especially that final), jjakji was extraordinary. I don't think I'd quite extend that to Flash.

Plus, this is all ignoring the fact that despite being criticised for being mediocre post-2011, jjakji's still got a top 6 in a Korean league in 2013. Flash doesn't

On March 17 2016 19:59 Big J wrote:


First row: The ones I would put clearly ahead. The second row some that I'd say had similar success to flash.

DRG, Life, Nestea, Stephano, Soulkey, soO, ByuL, Solar, HyuN, Jaedong, Fruitdealer
Leenock, Losira, Hydra, Nerchio, Curious, RorO, Sniper, viOlet

Zest, sOs, PartinG, Classic, MC, Naniwa, HuK, herO, Rain, Dear,
Seed, MaNa, HerO, Creator, Stardust, Trap

And yes, as thecrazymunchkin said, it's about how strong those guys were for their time and also about their consistency and collected accomplishments. Players like Fruitdealer or Jjakji were incredible during their peaks (even Sniper, RorO or Seed). And yes, I'm heavily emphasizing solo leagues over teamleagues (don't forget that before proleague we had GSTL and it had its own ballers), simply due to the nature how you are matched against opponents. In solo leagues you have to win every match but one or two against opponents that had to qualify and then still get incrementally stronger, in teamleagues on the other hand it's Bo1's and you win some, you lose some against random opponents. You get fielded a lot if your coach wants you to, or you sit in the second row with the best stats if you are Zest but you have to win until you win a GSL title and the trainer realizes you should be the actual ace player.
And yes, some of the results are old. It's our history and I'm glad I remember it because it was awesome.

On March 17 2016 20:06 Elentos wrote:
Remind me again why this thread is completely about Flash now instead of the players in the Ro16 of Code S. I mean for the purposes of this thread, it really doesn't matter if Flash is in the top 30, 40 or 50 SC2 players of all time.

Who the top 8 players of right now are, that's much more intriguing for me.