|
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=149985&iskin=esports (Seed)
http://sports.news.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=347&aid=0000082937 (Bbyong)
http://sports.news.naver.com/esports/news/read.nhn?oid=442&aid=0000029629 (DeParture)
Seed
Q. It's been a year since your last code S. How do you feel?
I'm thrilled to win code S again. I`ll prepare well and do my best for you guys.
Q. How did you feel when you realised that Bomber is your opponent?
I thought I got this. I`ve never been lost against Terran except TY and ByuN. I was confident; it did not seem to lose. Not because it was Bomber, but it was Terran.
Q. You made a whistle-blowing after match. Do you think balance issues are serious that much ?
Adepts are insane against Terran. You can take advantageous ground even if you failed to harass with it. Adepts are not only good at blocking scouts, but pressing Terran with its ability. When Terran sees WP, you must place your defense troops regardless of its intention.
However, I do not understand that Zerg players are having a hard time against Protoss. Except Dusk Towers or Orbital Shipyard, Zerg has it over Protoss. Because Zerg has tons of ways to harass Protoss, there are many games that Protoss defeated while defending against Zerg`s all-out attack.
Anyway, TvP is biased to Protoss, Absolutely.
Q. Do you think Terran can counter WP-Adepts strategy?
Many gosu Terrans wage mind games by taking fast double gases. This can counter Adepts, but it requires physical talents. Of course, even with that strategy, TvP is about 4:6. As you see, you cannot beat Protoss with your Cyclones.
Q. I heard that you deliberately abused Adepts in order to show your discontent against Blizzard balance team, right?
Somewhat.One thing is, they never listen our feedback. They`ve adjusted unrelated things since WoL. Every race needs nerf now. Liberators, Adepts, Zerg`s new units... Anyway, of course, they`ll do whatever they want. One thing is, they hardly ask things to progamers.
Q. Are you expecting all the reprimands from communities for abusing Adepts?
I`m not the one to be blamed. I`m not the one who made Adepts - I`m just one who used it. SC2 has problems, to say nothing of balance issues. It has chatting bugs and sometimes bronze leaguer meets grand master when one leaves league. I do not know what they are thinking, because it`s been two months that those bugs are neglected. I have so much thing to say, but they do not listen; that`s why I made an interview like that.
Q. You become eloquent.
(laugh) It`d been ages since I made my last interview. Maybe that`s why I`m talkative now.
Q. What`s your goal?
Ro. 8, for now. It'll be best if I win tournament again.
Q. Is there any player you want to play against?
I don`t know, because Code A is not finished yet. It doesn`t matter for now.
Q. It is true that MVP players practice a lot because Choya plays SC2 a lot?
I`m coach, but my amount of training is in the top 3 of my team; I`m the oldest one except Choya. Even I do this much; younger teammates also do their best, too.
Q. Say a word that you want.
Since Blaze`s father passed away, we`re in mourning atmosphere. I hope that he overcomes it. Thanks to Chickenmaru and Lotte-Chilsung for sponsoring us. Please keep support us, since we`ll give it back to our fans with our performances. I`d also like to say thank you to my mates, family members, teammates and fans.
Bbyong
Q You advanced. How do you feel?
I consider my opponent an amateur, so I`m not hyped. I was obsessed with all-ins in game 1 and 2, though Terran must be aware of them.
Q You wrecked in game 1.
I was so stiff, because I was possessed with my opponent.
Q Did you know anything about your opponent?
Everyone says that he always all-in. That`s what I was concerning about; He didn`t, actually.
Q Your opinion about balance?
People overlook one thing; even if Protoss is nerfed as DK suggested, Terran would lose. Even random Protoss player can win with WP-Adepts - and that`s not the only one that needs nerf. Adepts are only the tip of the iceberg. According to the interviews with Protoss players, they tend to win games too easy. I feel helpless, because I cannot do anything against Adepts. This is the worst balance I`ve ever seen.
Q. Is there any player you want to play against?
Anyone but Protoss.
Q. What`s your goal?
I`d like to aim high, but it is hard due to Protoss. Every Terran player has the same issue.
Q. Do you have anything needs improvement?
My APM is quite slow; I cannot control my resources. It`s been 3 years, and I cannot fix it. Because that makes Mech nonviable, I need to practice more.
Q. Why Mechanic is not viable?
Game is faster and resource depletes quicker. If I cannot fix my APM problem, I cannot use Mechanics. You cannot hold till combinations are changed, because it depletes so fast. Z and P`s mobility overwhelms that of Terran. Maybe Mechanic cannot be viable forever in LotV.
Say a word.
There`s one thing that Protoss needs: conscience. Stop lying in interviews.
DeParture
Q. This is your first Code S. how do you feel?
I`m very glad, because this is my first time that I won qualifications.
Q. What were you thinking after you confirmed your opponent?
I thought my opponent was strong. However I thought it was OK because I`m good at playing against Protoss,
Q. You only used Ravagers. Is there any reason?
I tried various builds, but that one had the highest winrate. I tried to be aggressive.
Q. Seems MVP is doing well. Any particular reason?
Since Choya practices a lot, everyone is a bit concerned. Of course, LotV fits in, too.
Q. Does Lotv fits you, too? I mean, more than WoL or HotS?
I thought I was good at Hots, but I could not prove myself; I believe I can do better this time.
Q. Any favourable opponent?
No one except Terran. Terran is very hard to play against, because of reapers, Liberators and Ghosts. Zerg cannot take dominance.
Q. Anything to say?
Blaze is having a hard time. I hope he overcomes it. Thanks to Hot6 and Chickenmaru.
|
I think the Adept does show too much strength versus Terran, but one must not forget the prospects of the matchup if a nerf is to go through.
|
This interview is exactly why Seed is my favourite player.
|
welcome back seed, it's been a while
- gsl
Also didn't he play bomber not sorry lol
|
He didn't play vs Sorry in Code A <.<
Also does he mean in practice? Because he has no official games vs TY on Aligulac in LotV, but losses against some other Terrans.
Also, RIP Blaze's dad.
|
On January 16 2016 01:23 TheoMikkelsen wrote:
I think the Adept does show too much strength versus Terran, but one must not forget the prospects of the matchup if a nerf is to go through.
just nerf liberator and maybe widow mine
|
On January 16 2016 01:26 Elentos wrote:
He didn't play vs Sorry in Code A <.<
Also does he mean in practice? Because he has no official games vs TY on Aligulac in LotV, but losses against some other Terrans.
Also, RIP Blaze's dad.
I was confused, because their first names are same.
|
haha his answer vs the balance team :D Its always the same with Blizzard.... Blizzard doesnt "listen", they only listen when it fits their vision. Same with the weekly "community feedbacks" who are a farce on its own.
|
Germany3367 Posts
Oh Seed, how I have missed you. :D
|
Seed is the GSL champion Blizzard deserves and we need.
|
Somewhat.One thing is, they never listen our feedback. They`ve adjusted unrelated things since WoL. Every race needs nerf now. Liberators, Adepts, Zerg`s new units... Anyway, of course, they`ll do whatever they want. First, they hardly do ask things to progamers.
Thanks so much for that Seed. Enough with that "no nerfs please, just buffs" bullshit. I agree with everything he said.
|
You can feel the sadness in Bbyong's interview.
I miss mech too buddy :c
|
I consider my opponent an armature
not "an armature", but "an amateur"
well, I guess...
|
Never heard a foreign player say that his APM is too slow
|
On January 16 2016 02:08 ThatOneHalf wrote:not "an armature", but "an amateur" well, I guess...
Malapropism, Sire!
|
On January 16 2016 01:28 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 01:23 TheoMikkelsen wrote:
I think the Adept does show too much strength versus Terran, but one must not forget the prospects of the matchup if a nerf is to go through.
just nerf liberator and maybe widow mine
First we'll have to figure out if there's a way we can win against non-nerfed terran, so probably in one or one in a half gsl
|
On January 16 2016 02:25 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 01:28 sAsImre wrote:On January 16 2016 01:23 TheoMikkelsen wrote:
I think the Adept does show too much strength versus Terran, but one must not forget the prospects of the matchup if a nerf is to go through.
just nerf liberator and maybe widow mine First we'll have to figure out if there's a way we can win against non-nerfed terran, so probably in one or one in a half gsl
with the current trend it'd be in 2017.
|
On January 16 2016 02:27 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 02:25 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 01:28 sAsImre wrote:On January 16 2016 01:23 TheoMikkelsen wrote:
I think the Adept does show too much strength versus Terran, but one must not forget the prospects of the matchup if a nerf is to go through.
just nerf liberator and maybe widow mine First we'll have to figure out if there's a way we can win against non-nerfed terran, so probably in one or one in a half gsl with the current trend it'd be in 2017.
Yeah something like that. But it's okay.
Edit: we also want to consider if we want to nerf terran even then.
|
Bbyong's rage against Protoss is hilarious
|
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
|
On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T.
|
On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T.
Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg.
|
France12761 Posts
|
Really liked the interview of seed, having imbalance yeah why not, but taking month and month to fix some basic bug/MMR issues ... Blizzard
|
On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg.
There are always people that will claim their race just has better players in every period with imbalance.
|
On January 16 2016 04:44 Poopi wrote:
Seed should apologize
he actually apologized on stream for playing his race haha
|
France12761 Posts
On January 16 2016 05:50 Killmouse wrote:he actually apologized on stream for playing his race haha
Good guy Seed, bad guys Blizzard
|
Glad to have Seed back xD
This was hilarious as well:
Say a word.
There`s one thing that Protoss needs: conscience. Stop lying in interviews.
|
Oh, now, all of you Seed "fans" are now coming out. Where were you guys when Seed won his first Proleague match against Bomber? Where were you guys when Seed found a team after fOu? Where were....
Ah, fuck it. I'm just so damn happy that Seed is back giving such brilliant interviews.
|
On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg.
I'm guessing you weren't here for BL/Infestor and the Blink era, I actually remember a certain guy whose name I will not tell but started with N and ended with ebuchad that said that terran was stronger than toss during the blink era and that the reason that where 3 terrans in code S was because there weren't any good terrans compared to protoss.
|
Seed is such a boss, conscience toss 
|
More respect for Seed earned for his words. And I agree with Bbyong, I miss mech.
|
for english speakers, the translation of term 메카닉 to mechanics is bit confusing at glance because it refers to something like game mechanics instead of mech play at times :p just a feedback on otherwise good translations
Other than that though, the interviews come across bit bitter and angry. Kinda worried since koreans tend to be roundabout
|
Don't worry, Terrans, I'm sure Blizzard is doing tons of internal testing and it says that adepts are fine.
+ Show Spoiler +Seriously though, I'm pretty sure Blizzard's "internal testing" is them watching the AI play each other. They're evenly skilled, so balance is the only factor, right?
|
I dont think the translator to Bbyong's question on mech play is translated right. What I saw was
Q: Why can't Mech be used?
A: The game tempo got faster, and the resource mines out lot quicker so no matter how you fix [mech], if you don't fix the resource problem, you can't use mech. You need to last through the game (turtle?), but if you run out of resources, you cant move at all. You cant compete with Zerg and Protoss's mobility at all.In Lotv, mech would probably have hard time appearing at all.
Just throwing it out here
|
Nerf adepts + liberators + ultras + parasitic bomb (and maybe remove the +shield on widow mines to help chargelot archon). Simple, really.
|
Any replays and/or vods on this?
On January 16 2016 05:00 Mlord wrote:
Really liked the interview of seed, having imbalance yeah why not, but taking month and month to fix some basic bug/MMR issues ... Blizzard
Seems blizzards MO, how long did it take them just to add more basic features to bnet like chat and watching replays with others? To this day its still impractical to play all the races if your main is much better than the other two.
|
Seed is a G. Clearly doesnt give a damn about offending anyone lol. I love his attitude.
Also Blizzard just please make the WP cost more or something, make it more of a risk to lose it rather than the cost of 4 marines.
|
On January 16 2016 09:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:
Nerf adepts + liberators + ultras + parasitic bomb (and maybe remove the +shield on widow mines to help chargelot archon). Simple, really.
I think PB is fine if they do go throught with the last proposed nerf. I think ravagers are more of a problem, they are not necessarily OP, but much like adepts they dictate too much of how the game goes, specially early game.
|
Holy shit, Seed laying down the law!
|
See, protoss are honest, adepts are OP and protoss said it, but you don't see a single zerg adressing the fact that they stomp all over protoss no contest.
Terrans are just whining as usual.
BTW Seed is still the TR-8R of the Protoss race.
|
lol I've just become a fan of seed, so brutal laying down the truth, none of that usual standard sugar-coated Korean responses.
|
Protoss now the manliest race? Asking to be nerfed.
Move over Zergs!
|
Go Seed!
Tell it like it is man! I love that. Totally on point when he says Blizzard has been adjusting unrelated things since WoL. How long was the 4 Gate viable? How long did the 1-1-1 go on for? And how about the Roach max versus Protoss?
Now if only Team Liquid representatives would call it like it is. There was a time when I was criticizing Blizzard that they sent me a PM asking me to tone it down because they believe that a constructive discussion about the economy would lead Blizzard away from the reduced mineral patches in LOTV and to a system like double harvesting.
How'd that work out Team Liquid? I know you guys want to foster a good relationship with Blizzard, but can't you see they have been the thing standing in the way of SC2 being great since the middle of WOL?
It is way past time to say it like it is and get these idiots out of here. Let's let David Kim ruin some other companies games, not SC2.
On January 16 2016 02:25 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 01:28 sAsImre wrote:On January 16 2016 01:23 TheoMikkelsen wrote:
I think the Adept does show too much strength versus Terran, but one must not forget the prospects of the matchup if a nerf is to go through.
just nerf liberator and maybe widow mine First we'll have to figure out if there's a way we can win against non-nerfed terran, so probably in one or one in a half gsl
That is sad. I agree that the Adept needs a nerf, I didn't require that Terran figure out a way to win against it.
I was all for the moment Winter showed everyone even though many people argued it was no problem and give it more time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/498748-the-warp-prism-creates-a-mediocre-dynamic
At this point, it is way past time.
But the Liberator and Widow Mine could both use nerfs (I don't mind the Liberator nearly as much as the Widow Mine honestly) and we shouldn't have to wait months for the inevitable nerfs.
On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg.
As much as I dislike him, give Polt and Polt alone credit for stating that Terran was overpowered during GomTvT.
|
On January 16 2016 14:26 BronzeKnee wrote:
Go Seed!
Tell it like it is man! I love that. Totally on point when he says Blizzard has been adjusting unrelated things since WoL. How long was the 4 Gate viable? How long did the 1-1-1 go on for? And how about the Roach max versus Protoss?
Now if only Team Liquid representatives would call it like it is. There was a time when I was criticizing Blizzard that they sent me a PM asking me to tone it down because they believe that a constructive discussion about the economy would lead Blizzard away from the reduced mineral patches in LOTV and to a system like double harvesting.
How'd that work out Team Liquid? I know you guys want to foster a good relationship with Blizzard, but can't you see they have been the thing standing in the way of SC2 being great since the middle of WOL?
It is way past time to say it like it is and get these idiots out of here. Let's let David Kim ruin some other companies games, not SC2.
We have to play the communication game Blizzard's way if we want to talk with them. Getting angry and using exaggeration and sarcasm will get us nowhere because people like that aren't taken seriously. It might work when you're on the phone with a help desk, or at a counter to your local retailer, but this isn't customer service where Blizzard will bend over backwards to keep you happy. We need to speak like intelligent adults to be heard like intelligent adults and frankly most of the community don't because they're sitting alone, behind their monitors venting to no-one with a know-it-all attitude, and I don't blame Blizzard for writing the general community off as being ignorant of the big picture.
|
This is almost getting to the point of Bl/infestor era during WOL.
I saw game 1 of Seed vs Bomber yesterday. Jeez Bomber even defended quite well the first wp/adept harass and he was still behind after that and Seed just walked over him without doing anything spectacular. Bomber was already behind just because he had to prepare for the wp/adept.
I just literally closed the stream after that because i knew Seed was going to win. At the peak of Bl/infestor, the last few gsl, i absolutely refused to watch because i knew which race was going to win. This is not going to help viewership of any PvT series.
What is it going to take Blizzard to see that the wp/adept combo is way too OP in PvT right now??
|
Sad for the progamers who have to deal with blizzard's indifference, particularly on the balance end.
|
On January 16 2016 15:32 Deathstar wrote:
Sad for the progamers who have to deal with blizzard's indifference, particularly on the balance end.
Yeah combined with the changes to WCS, imagine missing out because of meta imbalances and then not having another shot at anything for months. Pretty harsh indeed.
|
On January 16 2016 15:32 Deathstar wrote:
Sad for the progamers who have to deal with blizzard's indifference, particularly on the balance end.
This is probably the most frustrating part about the whole thing. Peoples livelihood is at stake here...
|
Face it Blizzard!!! There are many things wrong with this game, but you do not listen, ignore it. Instead, you do thing in a realy fucking stupid way and try to drive people's attention to a different way:
- New ECO.
- Flying siegetank...
|
seed is becoming pretty adept at this game
|
|
|
On January 16 2016 01:24 Weavel wrote:
This interview is exactly why Seed is my favourite player.
He is mine now.
Unfortunately this explains the sudden quitting of some Terrans.
On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg.
Well true. Since then the bunker build time changed for terrans, and some other minor changes. And the ghost nerf AFAIR. Hardly did they really alter the terran balance with that. And in the end of WoL we had Z ruling over everything.
The first few months of WoL were boring to watch, but I believe this was because more mechanics of BW transitioned to WoL with T then with other races.
But I can be wrong, afterall it has been 5 years. But in these 5 years, blizzard didn't manage to make Mech really viable, they didn't manage to fix T lategame so its not to be expected that they ever fix that, especially with no more Addons coming up.
I am 100% sure that is the reason some players quit.
Edit: the more I think of it: well T didn't get much nerf but the other races received some cool buffs so you are right basically. Unfortunately Blizzard did its job too well and we had way bigger inbalance towards Z in the end. The game was most "stable" and balanced in the end of HOTS, but still some units should have been patched out (like the swarm host was) or nerfed. And fixing T lategame vs Toss maybe.
On January 16 2016 07:21 hansonslee wrote:
Oh, now, all of you Seed "fans" are now coming out. Where were you guys when Seed won his first Proleague match against Bomber? Where were you guys when Seed found a team after fOu? Where were....
Ah, fuck it. I'm just so damn happy that Seed is back giving such brilliant interviews.
Some toss in the last couple of years made it hard for me to be like ANY toss. Ok I liked Rain. He didn't cheese much and he had his BW past.
Unfortunately. Did I know what a great guy Seed seems to be.
You don't have to be a fan of someone from day one you know. Entertainers can win you over On January 16 2016 08:50 Solar424 wrote:Don't worry, Terrans, I'm sure Blizzard is doing tons of internal testing and it says that adepts are fine. + Show Spoiler +Seriously though, I'm pretty sure Blizzard's "internal testing" is them watching the AI play each other. They're evenly skilled, so balance is the only factor, right?
That wouldn't even surprise me: I don't think they know how good Adepts can be, I just tried some things for fun the last 2 months and also tried to play vs the AI. Pretty sure the AI doesn't use Adept shade at all. Maybe its so "hard to eimplement" (which would of course justify saying Adepts are fine since they cannot even integrate it into the AI, how should a Pro Player be able to play that style then)
On January 16 2016 13:11 ProtossMasterRace wrote:
See, protoss are honest, adepts are OP and protoss said it, but you don't see a single zerg adressing the fact that they stomp all over protoss no contest.
Terrans are just whining as usual.
BTW Seed is still the TR-8R of the Protoss race.
Well every race has its units/abilities that are kinda retarded. Adepts/Oracle/Liberator/Ravager. Oracle was considered too strong even from some tosses.
Players being honest isn't a new thing.
Whiny players and users were always there. No matter the race. Terrans aren't more whiny then others so stop the BM.
I remember clearly how Zerg whined even in a period they won everything. Toss whined late 2013 and 2014 about WM and other stuff while they won so many tournaments.
So basically there is constant whine of all races :D Some "whines" were more justified then others I guess. As a former Terran player, I really hope that they will finally introduce a Terran lategame unit or at least something that makes lategame more balanced. And maybe mech viable, although I find BIO more entertaining to watch.
If we are honest there simply are problems in LOTV. And some whining right now might be ok, maybe Blizzard thinks about "testing things internally"
|
On January 16 2016 05:50 Killmouse wrote:he actually apologized on stream for playing his race haha
Idra can finally feel content
|
|
|
On January 16 2016 07:27 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg. I'm guessing you weren't here for BL/Infestor and the Blink era, I actually remember a certain guy whose name I will not tell but started with N and ended with ebuchad that said that terran was stronger than toss during the blink era and that the reason that where 3 terrans in code S was because there weren't any good terrans compared to protoss.
You failed to make a gag about how blink era pvt is worse for protoss than brodlord infestor era minus 20 points 
|
On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg.
Except the GomTvT era had WAY more to do with the retarded map pool of the era than it had to do with race balance.
People forget, CONSTANTLY that we were still playing on maps like Tal'Darim Altar and fucking Shakuras Plateau back then. Going even further back to godawful maps like fucking Xel'Naga Caverns.
Even back then, the maps made an enormous difference in match up balance. There was some obviously overpowered shit like Blue Flame Hellions or Barracks before supply depot bunker rushes or mass ghosts vs Zerg, but that kind of shit was fixed really quickly. Compare that to 2014's Blink All in mess or Infestor Broodlord.
We had it pretty damn good in WoL. How quickly we forget.
|
On January 16 2016 22:33 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg. Except the GomTvT era had WAY more to do with the retarded map pool of the era than it had to do with race balance. People forget, CONSTANTLY that we were still playing on maps like Tal'Darim Altar and fucking Shakuras Plateau back then. Going even further back to godawful maps like fucking Xel'Naga Caverns. Even back then, the maps made an enormous difference in match up balance. There was some obviously overpowered shit like Blue Flame Hellions or Barracks before supply depot bunker rushes or mass ghosts vs Zerg, but that kind of shit was fixed really quickly. Compare that to 2014's Blink All in mess or Infestor Broodlord. We had it pretty damn good in WoL. How quickly we forget.
Why exactly would you believe the notion that maps had some of the blame means that we were having it pretty damn good, considering maps didn't change for about a century? "Sweet, I'm getting rekt, but that's okay, at least I know it's just the maps"?
|
On January 16 2016 07:27 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg. I'm guessing you weren't here for BL/Infestor and the Blink era, I actually remember a certain guy whose name I will not tell but started with N and ended with ebuchad that said that terran was stronger than toss during the blink era and that the reason that where 3 terrans in code S was because there weren't any good terrans compared to protoss.
That's an interesting memory you have. I also remember that guy Nebuchad, he never said any such thing. The blink era was more terrans whining and whining and whining, maybe three people total in the forum disagreeing with them, while everyone else agreed with terran getting buffed, and then terran going "I can't believe how many protosses are disagreeing with this" even though nobody did.
But hey, whatever.
|
France12761 Posts
The main thing people forget about GomTvT is that the system made it so very few people could be dropped out of code S at once, there were many code S terrans at the start partly because of balance (bunker blocks and stuff like that) and bad maps (old lost temple, scrap station, steppes of war, close / close air metalopolis) etc.
Anyways all races are whiners and the balance will be hard because some imba units are key in different match-ups (liberators, adepts, mines, ravagers, etc...) and Blizzard seems to only care about PR atm...
Edit: also I don't remember if it's this thread but the number of P/Z/T in ro60 is irrelevant because most good players qualified and those who didn't were amateurs at best.
|
I've never liked Seed as a player, but he does give some great interviews.
|
Seed is a boss. Bbyong on the other hand is taking the dark side (hater)... resorting to personal attacks. (Have there been any interviews where Protoss say it's fine? The few I read they said P is favored or strightly OP)
|
I believe if Maru, Zest, Soulkey said something similar to what Seed and BByong said, this game would be in complete chaos. Now is the time for listening to do a real teamwork, not the time for DK or anyone else in the develop team does whatever they want and ignoring what the community asks for!!!
|
On January 16 2016 14:26 BronzeKnee wrote:Go Seed!
Tell it like it is man! I love that. Totally on point when he says Blizzard has been adjusting unrelated things since WoL. How long was the 4 Gate viable? How long did the 1-1-1 go on for? And how about the Roach max versus Protoss? Now if only Team Liquid representatives would call it like it is. There was a time when I was criticizing Blizzard that they sent me a PM asking me to tone it down because they believe that a constructive discussion about the economy would lead Blizzard away from the reduced mineral patches in LOTV and to a system like double harvesting. How'd that work out Team Liquid? I know you guys want to foster a good relationship with Blizzard, but can't you see they have been the thing standing in the way of SC2 being great since the middle of WOL? It is way past time to say it like it is and get these idiots out of here. Let's let David Kim ruin some other companies games, not SC2. Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 02:25 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 01:28 sAsImre wrote:On January 16 2016 01:23 TheoMikkelsen wrote:
I think the Adept does show too much strength versus Terran, but one must not forget the prospects of the matchup if a nerf is to go through.
just nerf liberator and maybe widow mine First we'll have to figure out if there's a way we can win against non-nerfed terran, so probably in one or one in a half gsl That is sad. I agree that the Adept needs a nerf, I didn't require that Terran figure out a way to win against it. I was all for the moment Winter showed everyone even though many people argued it was no problem and give it more time: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/498748-the-warp-prism-creates-a-mediocre-dynamicAt this point, it is way past time. But the Liberator and Widow Mine could both use nerfs (I don't mind the Liberator nearly as much as the Widow Mine honestly) and we shouldn't have to wait months for the inevitable nerfs. Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg. As much as I dislike him, give Polt and Polt alone credit for stating that Terran was overpowered during GomTvT.
Unfortunately, David Kim is only the balance designer for SC2. He is not responsible for the absurdities of Warp Prism pickup range, Adepts, Liberators, Parasitic Bomb, BL-Infestor, the Warp Gate-Pylon Overcharge-awful Gateway units triad, et al. Blame Dustin Browder instead.
|
On January 16 2016 23:13 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 07:27 Lexender wrote:On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg. I'm guessing you weren't here for BL/Infestor and the Blink era, I actually remember a certain guy whose name I will not tell but started with N and ended with ebuchad that said that terran was stronger than toss during the blink era and that the reason that where 3 terrans in code S was because there weren't any good terrans compared to protoss. That's an interesting memory you have. I also remember that guy Nebuchad, he never said any such thing. The blink era was more terrans whining and whining and whining, maybe three people total in the forum disagreeing with them, while everyone else agreed with terran getting buffed, and then terran going "I can't believe how many protosses are disagreeing with this" even though nobody did. But hey, whatever.
To be fair, even when Terran was getting dominated in Code S etc with only like 3 players Rain was still calling them literally Broodlord/Infestor.
So there was one!
|
On January 17 2016 08:51 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2016 23:13 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 07:27 Lexender wrote:On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg. I'm guessing you weren't here for BL/Infestor and the Blink era, I actually remember a certain guy whose name I will not tell but started with N and ended with ebuchad that said that terran was stronger than toss during the blink era and that the reason that where 3 terrans in code S was because there weren't any good terrans compared to protoss. That's an interesting memory you have. I also remember that guy Nebuchad, he never said any such thing. The blink era was more terrans whining and whining and whining, maybe three people total in the forum disagreeing with them, while everyone else agreed with terran getting buffed, and then terran going "I can't believe how many protosses are disagreeing with this" even though nobody did. But hey, whatever. To be fair, even when Terran was getting dominated in Code S etc with only like 3 players Rain was still calling them literally Broodlord/Infestor. So there was one!
He specified in his interview "If you don't go blink". But of course you're going blink, since why wouldn't you. It's not very different from saying terran is strong right now if you don't go adept. Very likely true, but not super relevant, since of course you're going adepts. Rain was proven wrong later, obviously, as terran wasn't op even when protoss doesn't go blink, but it's still not the same as just stating that terran is really op in the middle of the period with no caveats, which is what's written in history books (mainly thanks to stuchiu's coverage) and is of course completely ridiculous.
|
On January 16 2016 01:20 Thouhastmail wrote:
One thing is, they hardly ask things to progamers.
|
On January 17 2016 09:00 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 08:51 Phredxor wrote:On January 16 2016 23:13 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 07:27 Lexender wrote:On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg. I'm guessing you weren't here for BL/Infestor and the Blink era, I actually remember a certain guy whose name I will not tell but started with N and ended with ebuchad that said that terran was stronger than toss during the blink era and that the reason that where 3 terrans in code S was because there weren't any good terrans compared to protoss. That's an interesting memory you have. I also remember that guy Nebuchad, he never said any such thing. The blink era was more terrans whining and whining and whining, maybe three people total in the forum disagreeing with them, while everyone else agreed with terran getting buffed, and then terran going "I can't believe how many protosses are disagreeing with this" even though nobody did. But hey, whatever. To be fair, even when Terran was getting dominated in Code S etc with only like 3 players Rain was still calling them literally Broodlord/Infestor. So there was one! He specified in his interview "If you don't go blink". But of course you're going blink, since why wouldn't you. It's not very different from saying terran is strong right now if you don't go adept. Very likely true, but not super relevant, since of course you're going adepts. Rain was proven wrong later, obviously, as terran wasn't op even when protoss doesn't go blink, but it's still not the same as just stating that terran is really op in the middle of the period with no caveats, which is what's written in history books (mainly thanks to stuchiu's coverage) and is of course completely ridiculous.
Right now, the top 16 spots on ladder is taken by 10 Terran players. Normally, Terran players don’t do so well on ladder but I feel that things have gotten very serious now that there are 10 Terran players up there. When I see things like that, I feel that I’m not the only one who does badly in PvT. Widow mines have become very OP. In fact, I actually think that BW spider mines were better.
That additional damage against shield was really big. Now Protoss can’t play using a templar build order. Once Terrans realized that, they are now so much more daring. And even without all that, Terran is still too strong. It’s like WoL Brood Lord/Infestor/Corruptor level.
He did later on say that it's hard to win without going blink stalker, but that's some top notch balance whine from the player of the stronger race right there. 
|
On January 17 2016 09:46 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2016 09:00 Nebuchad wrote:On January 17 2016 08:51 Phredxor wrote:On January 16 2016 23:13 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 07:27 Lexender wrote:On January 16 2016 04:38 CheddarToss wrote:On January 16 2016 04:19 Nebuchad wrote:On January 16 2016 04:14 Empirimancer wrote:
Bbyong's comment about Protoss lying is pretty funny. I haven't read every interview so I'm sure some Protoss are in denial, but to my knowledge this problem with Adept balance is actually the first time in SC2 history that the players of an OP race are being mostly honest about the problem.
Actually it happens most of the time. The only time it really didn't happen was 2011 T. Yeah, that was the GomTvT period with all the Terran players on the internet claiming that the game is balanced but that the Terran pro players are just so much better than Protoss and Zerg. I'm guessing you weren't here for BL/Infestor and the Blink era, I actually remember a certain guy whose name I will not tell but started with N and ended with ebuchad that said that terran was stronger than toss during the blink era and that the reason that where 3 terrans in code S was because there weren't any good terrans compared to protoss. That's an interesting memory you have. I also remember that guy Nebuchad, he never said any such thing. The blink era was more terrans whining and whining and whining, maybe three people total in the forum disagreeing with them, while everyone else agreed with terran getting buffed, and then terran going "I can't believe how many protosses are disagreeing with this" even though nobody did. But hey, whatever. To be fair, even when Terran was getting dominated in Code S etc with only like 3 players Rain was still calling them literally Broodlord/Infestor. So there was one! He specified in his interview "If you don't go blink". But of course you're going blink, since why wouldn't you. It's not very different from saying terran is strong right now if you don't go adept. Very likely true, but not super relevant, since of course you're going adepts. Rain was proven wrong later, obviously, as terran wasn't op even when protoss doesn't go blink, but it's still not the same as just stating that terran is really op in the middle of the period with no caveats, which is what's written in history books (mainly thanks to stuchiu's coverage) and is of course completely ridiculous. Show nested quote +Right now, the top 16 spots on ladder is taken by 10 Terran players. Normally, Terran players don’t do so well on ladder but I feel that things have gotten very serious now that there are 10 Terran players up there. When I see things like that, I feel that I’m not the only one who does badly in PvT. Widow mines have become very OP. In fact, I actually think that BW spider mines were better.
That additional damage against shield was really big. Now Protoss can’t play using a templar build order. Once Terrans realized that, they are now so much more daring. And even without all that, Terran is still too strong. It’s like WoL Brood Lord/Infestor/Corruptor level. He did later on say that it's hard to win without going blink stalker, but that's some top notch balance whine from the player of the stronger race right there.
Sure no contest there.
|
Some protoss players are just so insecure they have to find way to bring up GomTvT everytime their race is on the receiving end of legitimate balance complaint.
|
Bbyong is overdramatic.
adepts are OP for sure, but other than that, the matchup is not P favored at all.
|
Glad some pro gamer's finally decided to call out blizzard. Way too many personalities (esp in the foreigner scene, although that could be because I hear them more) cowtow, and don't call out horrible decisions such as balance issues, glitches never being fixed and the wcs train wreck system.
Hopefully more of their colleges will follow and we can see some hard, constructive debate and change for the better.
|
|
|
Thouhastmail, thank you so much for your translating!
|
You can't help it but love Bomber's new twitter:
Link
|
TY: "Even I can beat GM Terran with my protoss. Balance is insane"
same question, same answer. nah..
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
